Are sorcerers receiving the same benefit as wizards in private workshops? Something to test tomorrow when the Teras private property is opened up before the auction.
VANKRASN39
ROLFARD
Re: private workshop status
06/14/2014 08:20 PM CDT
I ran a test on the Modwir's enchanting workshop and found it gave a sorcerer the same benefit as a guild workshop. are private workshops only a benefit to wizards? is this working as intended?
BHTM
Re: private workshop status
06/15/2014 01:49 AM CDT
Private workshops only benefit the wizard designated as the owner of that particular workshop. Any other wizard will not even recognize it as a workshop at all.
-Richard/Fjalar.
-Richard/Fjalar.
VANKRASN39
Re: private workshop status
06/15/2014 11:47 AM CDT
>Private workshops only benefit the wizard designated as the owner of that particular workshop. Any other wizard will not even recognize it as a workshop at all.
yes, that is the point, sorcerers are not receiving the benefit of a private workshop, therefore the top end of what we can successfully ensorcell is nerfed.
GS4-QORTAZ
Re: private workshop status
06/17/2014 08:46 AM CDT
From GM Coase:
<<Primary factors involved in this check are level, Sorcerer Spell Ranks, Wisdom, and Intuition. Secondary factors are Elemental Mana Control Ranks, Spiritual Mana Control Ranks, Arcane Symbols Ranks, and Magic Item Use Ranks. There is a bonus to success if a permanent ensorcellment attempt is made in a magical workshop, and there are penalties for attempting permanent ensorcellment while wouded.>>
<<yes, that is the point, sorcerers are not receiving the benefit of a private workshop, therefore the top end of what we can successfully ensorcell is nerfed.>>
You're comparing apples to oranges. The formulas for success for enchanting and ensorcelling are totally different. GM Coase stated there is a bonus to success if a permanent ensorcellment attempt is made in a magical workshop. Since he did not specify any difference between private or public workshop, you could make the assumption there is no difference.
<<Primary factors involved in this check are level, Sorcerer Spell Ranks, Wisdom, and Intuition. Secondary factors are Elemental Mana Control Ranks, Spiritual Mana Control Ranks, Arcane Symbols Ranks, and Magic Item Use Ranks. There is a bonus to success if a permanent ensorcellment attempt is made in a magical workshop, and there are penalties for attempting permanent ensorcellment while wouded.>>
<<yes, that is the point, sorcerers are not receiving the benefit of a private workshop, therefore the top end of what we can successfully ensorcell is nerfed.>>
You're comparing apples to oranges. The formulas for success for enchanting and ensorcelling are totally different. GM Coase stated there is a bonus to success if a permanent ensorcellment attempt is made in a magical workshop. Since he did not specify any difference between private or public workshop, you could make the assumption there is no difference.
VANKRASN39
Re: private workshop status
06/17/2014 10:05 AM CDT
>You're comparing apples to oranges. The formulas for success for enchanting and ensorcelling are totally different. GM Coase stated there is a bonus to success if a permanent ensorcellment attempt is made in a magical workshop. Since he did not specify any difference between private or public workshop, you could make the assumption there is no difference.
>HI!
>Private workshops are best, but are only of benefit to their owners and useless to anyone else (i.e. not a workshop for non-owners.)
Guild and CHE workshops are the next best, and are equally great.
Public workshops are least great, but still great.
--
>The sense messaging for mana pool stuff is a relic of the old enchanting system, and actually doesn't mean anything anymore in terms of Enchanting or anything else.
The presence of a mana pool DOES, however, indicate that a room is an enchanting workshop.
>-- Naos
>The magical workshops in most Sorcerer guilds (all except Zul Logoth and Ta'Vaalor) are now functioning as magical workshops such that they now will provide bonuses to appropriate spells, such as Scroll Infusion (714).
>GameMaster Oscuro
Neither Oscuro nor Coase specified that the workshops worked differently from how Naos specifically said workshops operate in 2010. If it is different, then official word from the development team is needed.
>HI!
>Private workshops are best, but are only of benefit to their owners and useless to anyone else (i.e. not a workshop for non-owners.)
Guild and CHE workshops are the next best, and are equally great.
Public workshops are least great, but still great.
--
>The sense messaging for mana pool stuff is a relic of the old enchanting system, and actually doesn't mean anything anymore in terms of Enchanting or anything else.
The presence of a mana pool DOES, however, indicate that a room is an enchanting workshop.
>-- Naos
>The magical workshops in most Sorcerer guilds (all except Zul Logoth and Ta'Vaalor) are now functioning as magical workshops such that they now will provide bonuses to appropriate spells, such as Scroll Infusion (714).
>GameMaster Oscuro
Neither Oscuro nor Coase specified that the workshops worked differently from how Naos specifically said workshops operate in 2010. If it is different, then official word from the development team is needed.
PRAT2
Re: private workshop status
06/17/2014 10:15 AM CDT
So has anyone explicitly said that Ensorcell benefits from workshops, or that private workshops provide extra bonuses for that spell? I ask because that 2010 quote was way before Ensorcell was released or perhaps even dreamed up. It may not even be intended that tierd workshops make a difference. (although they probably should since they do for wizards)
VANKRASN39
Re: private workshop status
06/17/2014 10:47 AM CDT
>So has anyone explicitly said that Ensorcell benefits from workshops,
yes
>or that private workshops provide extra bonuses for that spell?
no, but we also weren't told they operated differently
>I ask because that 2010 quote was way before Ensorcell was released or perhaps even dreamed up. It may not even be intended that tierd workshops make a difference. (although they probably should since they do for wizards)
that is the issue in question
DAID
Re: private workshop status
06/17/2014 11:46 AM CDT
I'm definitely not in the contending party for a private workshop. I am, however, a sorcerer, so I might be biased.
>Since he did not specify any difference between private or public workshop, you could make the assumption there is no difference.
Do we actually have evidence that public workshops differ from CHE/Guild workshops for ensorcell? I made a quick trial as I could manage, and didn't observe a difference.
If we do know that there is a difference, it stands to reason the personal workshop should be even better. If there isn't a difference, regardless of if there should be, shame on us for waiting until the last minute and discovering this difference more than a year after the release of 735 and demanding information and/or a change.
I personally think there should be a difference, but what I think is hardly at stake.
>(OOC) Rozy's player whispers to the group, "Spiiiiiderhalfling!"
>Out of no where, a ki-lin gallops in.
>Since he did not specify any difference between private or public workshop, you could make the assumption there is no difference.
Do we actually have evidence that public workshops differ from CHE/Guild workshops for ensorcell? I made a quick trial as I could manage, and didn't observe a difference.
If we do know that there is a difference, it stands to reason the personal workshop should be even better. If there isn't a difference, regardless of if there should be, shame on us for waiting until the last minute and discovering this difference more than a year after the release of 735 and demanding information and/or a change.
I personally think there should be a difference, but what I think is hardly at stake.
>(OOC) Rozy's player whispers to the group, "Spiiiiiderhalfling!"
>Out of no where, a ki-lin gallops in.
GS4-COASE
Re: private workshop status
06/17/2014 01:08 PM CDT
Private workshops are attuned to an owner, they provide no workshop bonus except to that owner. This includes enchanting and ensorcelling, plus whatever other spells may also check for workshops. If a sorcerer gets a workshop attuned to them, they can get the benefits.
Coase
Coase
GS4-COASE
Re: private workshop status
06/17/2014 01:10 PM CDT
>Do we actually have evidence that public workshops differ from CHE/Guild workshops for ensorcell?
There is no difference. For the purposes of Ensorcell, all active workshops provide the same bonus.
Coase
There is no difference. For the purposes of Ensorcell, all active workshops provide the same bonus.
Coase
VANKRASN39
Re: private workshop status
06/17/2014 01:22 PM CDT
>Private workshops are attuned to an owner, they provide no workshop bonus except to that owner. This includes enchanting and ensorcelling, plus whatever other spells may also check for workshops. If a sorcerer gets a workshop attuned to them, they can get the benefits.
thank you Coase, this is exactly the response I was looking for.
I'm not sure if this is currently working as intended as we've been told that private workshops are for wizards and can be attuned to wizards only, although I'm guessing/hoping that the issue is being looked into since there's an auction on Saturday. I'm looking forward to more clarification.
Thanks again.
VANKRASN39
Re: private workshop status
06/17/2014 01:48 PM CDT
>There is no difference. For the purposes of Ensorcell, all active workshops provide the same bonus.
ok, well that clears my need for a private workshop. Any plans to change this?
DAID
Re: private workshop status
06/17/2014 02:19 PM CDT
For a long time I've wondered what's even the point of Public Workshops at all. They are usually further from town. Sometimes they aren't even safe from creatures. Every single guild has one now, and many CHEs are open to the public. (A friend visiting WL asked where the wizard guild is, while working on none other than my own project, and I was like no clue but here's the Sovyn workshop...and we're both BHA officers...good news Sovyn members: the BHA workshop is also public!)
As long as sorcerers are getting kind of the shaft on workshop tiers, I might as well rub salt in everyone's wounds by just pointing out that public workshops are crap anyway. I almost want the guilds to remove all workshops, but you can guess how popular that would be!
>(OOC) Rozy's player whispers to the group, "Spiiiiiderhalfling!"
>Out of no where, a ki-lin gallops in.
As long as sorcerers are getting kind of the shaft on workshop tiers, I might as well rub salt in everyone's wounds by just pointing out that public workshops are crap anyway. I almost want the guilds to remove all workshops, but you can guess how popular that would be!
>(OOC) Rozy's player whispers to the group, "Spiiiiiderhalfling!"
>Out of no where, a ki-lin gallops in.
DAID
Re: private workshop status
06/17/2014 02:21 PM CDT
>Every single guild has one now
Grr my over the top sarcasm is going to get me wrecked. Almost every guild as one now.
Also, Coase, the facts are definitely always very much appreciated, and all the other hard work!
>(OOC) Rozy's player whispers to the group, "Spiiiiiderhalfling!"
>Out of no where, a ki-lin gallops in.
Grr my over the top sarcasm is going to get me wrecked. Almost every guild as one now.
Also, Coase, the facts are definitely always very much appreciated, and all the other hard work!
>(OOC) Rozy's player whispers to the group, "Spiiiiiderhalfling!"
>Out of no where, a ki-lin gallops in.
DOUG
Re: private workshop status
06/17/2014 07:48 PM CDT
Perhaps we could, you know, revisit the 'nerf' commentary -- like maybe recognize it wasn't accurate or something?
Doug
Doug
DAID
Re: private workshop status
06/17/2014 09:36 PM CDT
>Perhaps we could, you know, revisit the 'nerf' commentary -- like maybe recognize it wasn't accurate or something?
It sounded a little extreme to me...
>(OOC) Rozy's player whispers to the group, "Spiiiiiderhalfling!"
>Out of no where, a ki-lin gallops in.
It sounded a little extreme to me...
>(OOC) Rozy's player whispers to the group, "Spiiiiiderhalfling!"
>Out of no where, a ki-lin gallops in.
VANKRASN39
Re: private workshop status
06/17/2014 09:49 PM CDT
>Perhaps we could, you know, revisit the 'nerf' commentary -- like maybe recognize it wasn't accurate or something?
>It sounded a little extreme to me...
is that what Doug said? I keep him on ignore.
I think the overwhelming belief of the profession was that workshops provided tiered benefits and the fact that we can be attuned to workshops without any further benefit from them is in fact a nerf.
DAID
Re: private workshop status
06/18/2014 02:43 PM CDT
>is that what Doug said? I keep him on ignore.
Yes. <insert feelings of alienation and leaving the forums> Gaussian functions aren't good fits to non-Gaussian data with regard to foraging .... <insert rant> I still didn't hit ignore .... <insert thoughts> but it turns out he and I agree more often than I'd have thought. <insert solution>
>I think the overwhelming belief of the profession was that workshops provided tiered benefits and the fact that we can be attuned to workshops without any further benefit from them is in fact a nerf.
Yes. And for those people with very impressive gear, it's a let down (and the ones who wanted to contract to work on the gear). Still, I think it was a simple thing to determine last year and we just didn't do it. And like Vanah said, it's difficult to ask for either borking present guilds or purely more ability to ensorcell beyond design.
Not what you expected, and not living up to your hopes, but actually better anyway?
>(OOC) Rozy's player whispers to the group, "Spiiiiiderhalfling!"
>Out of no where, a ki-lin gallops in.
Yes. <insert feelings of alienation and leaving the forums> Gaussian functions aren't good fits to non-Gaussian data with regard to foraging .... <insert rant> I still didn't hit ignore .... <insert thoughts> but it turns out he and I agree more often than I'd have thought. <insert solution>
>I think the overwhelming belief of the profession was that workshops provided tiered benefits and the fact that we can be attuned to workshops without any further benefit from them is in fact a nerf.
Yes. And for those people with very impressive gear, it's a let down (and the ones who wanted to contract to work on the gear). Still, I think it was a simple thing to determine last year and we just didn't do it. And like Vanah said, it's difficult to ask for either borking present guilds or purely more ability to ensorcell beyond design.
Not what you expected, and not living up to your hopes, but actually better anyway?
>(OOC) Rozy's player whispers to the group, "Spiiiiiderhalfling!"
>Out of no where, a ki-lin gallops in.
