The Problem: Sorcerers currently lack a high mana warding-based spell which does direct damage to a single non-magical target. Dark Catalyst works well on magical creatures, but is specifically designed not to function effectively for creatures lacking large mana pools.

The Solution: Balefire could be used as a single target warding-based spell, filling the gap between Disintegrate and Dark Catalyst as a high cost, high damage option.

Functionality: The spell would follow the same general rules as Mana Disrupt. It could be channelled for extra power, and benefit from stance and open hands. It would use the plasma crit tables, and would still allow for additional damage via Minor Demons, but only for the single target. The % chance of the demon providing additional damage to the spell would be dependant upon the sorcerer's training in Demonology. The formula would be Demonology skill / 4.

Further rationalization: This spell would also help to bring balance to Demonology vs Necromancy lore by encouraging mid to high level sorcerers to train in Demonology without the dependence upon a bolt spell.

<<Dark Catalyst works well on magical creatures, but is specifically designed not to function effectively for creatures lacking large mana pools.>>

I remember back in the day telling Romulus that the magic lore had essence being the foundation of all physical things, and that since construct kinds of creatures exist only because of magic, they should be that much more vulnerable to spells that tear at the fabric of their being. I guess he lost the argument with Warden.

- Xorus' player

>> The Problem: Sorcerers currently lack a high mana warding-based spell which does direct damage to a single non-magical target. Dark Catalyst works well on magical creatures, but is specifically designed not to function effectively for creatures lacking large mana pools.

I realize that Pain lacks the ability to get a one hit kill, but it does fill this need, from what I can tell. The objections would be that it takes more mana (33 or 44) in order to get a sure kill, and more time (9-12 seconds). I realize that it may not be exactly in line with what you're outlining, but from what I've seen on mine sorc, Pain is a really solid "Can kill anything with reasonable safety" spell, especially with the stunlock effect.

All classes are not supposed to be equally good against all enemy types.

Sorcerers are extremely well suited to fighting magical opponents with abilities like 703 and DC. If they are slightly weaker against armored, physical foes, perhaps that's by design.

Similar to how ambushers are weak against non-corporeal.

The guy championing the class the specializing in sustainable 0-1 second cast/swing RT is saying other profession's kill times are just fine. Got it.

The concept of spending more mana for better results, albeit with diminishing returns is built into pretty much all pure classes and spell lists. CMANs often operate in the same fashion. This spell fits that paradigm. If the devs wish to move away from that manner of development, so be it, but that isn't the trend i've been seeing of late.

Dragging this discussion to a more productive area, there is a problem here that I am trying to address while working to modify an existing spell to fill a needed role. This is necessary because sorcerer spells lack the ability to scale with level beyond a certain point.

There is a missing element to sorcery that exists in various forms across all other pure classes. The ability to activate a mode which enables more powerful casting for a short time for a large amount of mana. I'm speaking about Rapid Fire and Spirit Slayer. These two spells cover the other 3 pure professions. Sorcerers are clearly the odd ones out. Obviously, the power of Rapid Fire should not be the target of such a sorcerer spell, but something resembling Spirit Slayer shouldn't be out of the question.

These ideas have been put forward in the past. The issue boils down to spell slots. We can't put an enhanced casting mode into a minor circle, as it would be either unbalancing, redundant, or overpowered. All that remains is 750. I honestly think that Major Summoning has been dreamed about by sorcerers for so long that GMs are leery of attempting to code something which would satisfy the class without being overpowered or overly complex.

If we had a spell which enhanced the power of our lesser spells for added mana, 702 or 705 could both be used to fill the gap in our arsenal. Until then, however, a mid level warding spell would fill the role. I think Balefire best fits.

So you agree that we do lack an option available to all other pure classes, but your argument is that sorcerers don't need it. Yet I should continue to try to convince you of the need of something else I think sorcerers lack, but you think we don't. That sounds like a lot of fun, but i'll pass.

On the plus side, i'm feeling less bad about those wizard nerfs by the minute. I'll count that as a win.

The point is that at no point is pain less than 33 mana to kill, never. It works but what I think he is asking for is something with a chance to at least crit kill. With a max warding pain does 35% of a targets max health with zero critical damage. It does great damage and is great for things that can't be crit killed, but is mana intensive to kill with. That doesn't mean that a warded version of 713 wouldn't be mana intensive but it could have the chance to kill with less than half the mana as well while still doing similar damage.

It is also in part that Balefire is one of the only demonology attack spells we have, besides Torment... If you don't want to use a bolt spell then you pretty much better have necro lore (for combat purposes). A warding version would help to make demonology more on par with necromancy, even though necromancy currently effects some of our best combat spells in the game as well as Ensorcell.

Drauz

You can still trigger the effect, but it will actually leave a corpse at the end of the messaging, so as not to penalize the spell with potential gear loss. It is an EXCEEDINGLY rare effect.

<<It's also worth noting that Balefire is the only spell drawing a combat ability out of our minor demons; it would be nice to have access to those demon flares without being forced to bolt. At the same time, I think Disintegrate (705) is consistently underrated. I use it all the time and find it highly effective in situations where you get an extra damage cycle: undead and stunned critters.>>

I think 705 is underrated because 702 is really a god like spell for the mana cost. I routinely do 50-120 hp in a single cast all for the cost of 2 mana. It can crit kill, does a ton of damage, and has a low mana cost. That pretty much everything you look for in a good spell. 705 CAN do much more damage but the damage cycles seem so erratic even on high end rolls (sometimes the third cycles will do 15 and sometimes it does 80-90).

Demonology is just not strong enough. It really only adds a chance for a demon to flare on 713, success with 740, extra lbs to phase, and chance for 712 to flare (unless you are with a single creature or have teleport as the flare, you are boned already). There is little advantage to having more than 50 ranks of demonology. I haven't bothered to summon a demon in years, its just a hassle plain and simple. I am a master of illusions and I still don't want to summon one just on the off chance I forget to reapply the illusion and get a huge fine ( I am usually in Ta'Illistim). I really wish there was some way to just make the illusion stay up as long as the particular demon was summoned (and not wear off when in combat, not even sure if it does this). I just want the hassles taken out and just let me have fun.

I have no ideas as to what spells could be bolstered by demonology though, but it should be at least one warding spell. I'll leave that to more creative people.

Alkire

That's great, a nice step in the right direction. Now have illusions never come off once applied.

Again though a warding version would be a great step into trying to make demonology back on par with necromancy. It seems to be a hard thing to balance and they keep just shifting all the weight from one side of the scale to the other. I remember when there was almost no point in training necromancy unless you wanted to tear your hair out animating things. Now you'd be crazy not to (or just have rp reasons).

I did, and that not what it says.

<<Though demon illusions are permanent until dispelled, certain demons performing particular actions will cause the illusion to drop as well.>>

Drauz

What happens when you X-realms travel into a town with an unillusioned demon summoned?

I apologize for not reading through the entire thread, but I think we're looking at the wrong spell to fill this need.

The correct spell for review would be 718.

Torment could be an amazing spell, but it is currently very very lacking in value. Demonology does improve 718, but it doesn't improve it in all the right ways, and no attack spell that I can think of (outside of 525) comes with the inherent risk of killing the caster. This spell is not so overwhelmingly powerful that it should pose such a significant risk to the caster.

I'd love to see how often 718 is being used because it it's current for, the spell is lack-luster at best. I have found one niche use for the spell, but that niche takes a ton of micromanagement.

Balefire serves a valuable purpose for Sorcerers. It's a great spell for spell aim enthusiasts, and handles swarms well when trained for that purpose. I see no reason to tweak 713. I can post at least a dozen reasons why 718 should be tweaked for the "kill squares" niche that is being discussed.

<<<Torment could be an amazing spell, but it is currently very very lacking in value. Demonology does improve 718, but it doesn't improve it in all the right ways, and no attack spell that I can think of (outside of 525) comes with the inherent risk of killing the caster. This spell is not so overwhelmingly powerful that it should pose such a significant risk to the caster.>>>

Torment is dangerous to use, yes. But it's essentially a guaranteed kill for 18 mana, provided nothing goes wrong in the process. Most "mishaps" can be prevented by the caster--stance, crowd control, etc. I think it's a great spell and is definitely part of my typical arsenal. Probably my biggest complaint is the "immune to unbalancing" that make it useless (and very dangerous to cast) on some critters. This is a demonic presence attacking--it should not have such a flaw.

~ GtG

Without getting in to all the banter, I basically like this proposal.

It's kind of like "See what happened to 705 during HSN? Please do the opposite to 713."

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>Daid: Pretty sure you have a whole big bucket as your penny jar. You never have only two cents. :p

As long as 718 is off yet on topic.

1) Make it not suck with bounties, k thx

That's the number one reason I tried that spell and said, "Wow this blows."

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