This is why I get rather bent out of shape about critter maneuvers...


An elven robber leaps out of his hiding place!
[Roll result: 128 (open d100: 57)]
An elven robber swings the blunt end of his cudgel at your throat!
You grab your throat completely unable to speak!
>inc 616
The searing pain in your throat makes that impossible.
>
Your heightened awareness of your own vulnerabilities fades away.
>
A half-elven highwayman springs from the shadows and strikes at you!
[Roll result: 97 (open d100: 25)]
A half-elven highwayman delivers a blow to your head with his broadsword! It stings slightly, but is otherwise inconsequential.
>
The pain in your throat subsides.
>


Not only have I mastered the cunning defense, but I also wear Brig, and added an aventail on top of that.Plus I was not encumbered at all, and armor training

| Bonus Ranks Goals In-Game Time to Goal
Armor Use..........................| 144 44 44


more then enough for Brig.

Not only this but in a sanctioned cvc challenge I managed to get cut throat 3 times. with 4x brig that weighs 16lbs,plus an aventail, and full ranger spells including mobiles it should be much harder for anything to hit my neck.

I just find it hard to accept that with full brig, and a mithril aventail on top of that that any knife can cut through it, or a weapon manage to stun me and cause enough damage I cant cast... even if the pain subsided I took damage.

stats or skills?

I am nut using any inhansives at the moment.

Armor Use..........................| 144 44 44
Combat Maneuvers...................| 200 100 100
Ranged Weapons.....................| 302 202 202
Brawling...........................| 152 52 52
Ambush.............................| 174 74 74
Physical Fitness...................| 204 104 104
Dodging............................| 184 84 84
Arcane Symbols.....................| 66 14 14
Magic Item Use.....................| 70 15 15
Harness Power......................| 201 101 101
Spirit Mana Control................| 105 25 25
Spiritual Lore - Blessings.........| 151 51 51
Spiritual Lore - Summoning.........| 150 50 50
Survival...........................| 189 89 89
Stalking and Hiding................| 200 100 100
Perception.........................| 280 180 180
Climbing...........................| 99 23 23
Swimming...........................| 122 31 31
First Aid..........................| 82 18 18
Trading............................| 5 1 1

Also I do use assume aspect quite a bit so related skills at times are boosted by 20 or more. I havnt checked the exact amount lately.

cmans;


Skill name Mnemonic Ranks
Shadow Mastery smastery 5
Dirtkick dirtkick 3
Sweep sweep 2
Cunning Defense cdefense 5

Available Combat Maneuver Training Points: 4

Yea I think droit also said major factor.. My fuss is more about wearing full brig, plus a metal aventail and still suffering neck attacks so easily. I would think in theory full coverage head to toe in hard leather, and metal over your neck would about eliminate that.

I sometimes wonder if the critter cmans are a little wonky with brig. It should offer hard leather protection to the full body, but Ive seen where someone with just leathers, and puts on a leather helmet and seems to get better head protection then brig.


the bandit rolled a 58,,,, and succeeded.

And then there is the age old complaint that WOT only seems to protect against garrote, and unless its changed it does not work against critter cmans.

Just so you know, guys, PF doesn't help against CMANs, just critter maneuvers like roa'ter burrows and stuff. You're better off focusing on CM if CMAN defense is your goal. Mobility also helps against CMANs in a way that increases with ranger spell ranks, however there seems to be a hard cap on how much CM defense you can generate because as you approach 2x CM, your mobility bonus approaches 0.

Droit

---

Speaking to you, Ceyrin asks, "Do you spontaneously come back to life when you die?"
Speaking to you, Ceyrin says, "Because I do."
You say, "Yes. I have a condition called Annoraxia.""

Oh I agree we shouldnt be immune, and I do know there are skills I can beef up that would aid in secondary ways. I just get seriously annoyed that with full armor coverage and carrying the exta weight of an aventail, in full defense.. I get thumped like that and CANT cast.

Sometimes bandit tasks go fine, other times, the random combination of that hit, and followed up with a second bandit using another cman that seems to hit can put you at serious risk or dead just by stepping into the room. It is all fun, and I am one that at times thinks it should be hard. But when your attempting to stay in one area as you said for r/p or other reasons. I means sometimes spending more time in a night getting healed then actually anything else.

Also, the second fuss is how slow companions are to respond. I had my companion with me through all of that, an she wasnt even in the room with me from being slow to follow. So by the time she did arrive she did not see me take the stun or any hit, and just sits there watching as she has no idea I had even been attacked. Its annoying if I hide an sneak around she is on me like glue, but normal wandering she seems to sometimes have no clue where I went for sometimes minutes.

GILBERTJ26

this maybe is a question for the powers that be, but if the mobility bonus falls off why do we pay a higher mana cost as mobility increases with spell ranks if it is negated by CM training? I would hope that if that is the case, once you have enough cmans to remove the mobility bonus the mana cost would fall back to its base.

Because Mobility (618) does more than just provide phantom Combat Maneuver ranks against CMAN attacks.

GameMaster Estild

>>Just so you know, guys, PF doesn't help against CMANs, just critter maneuvers like roa'ter burrows and stuff. You're better off focusing on CM if CMAN defense is your goal. Mobility also helps against CMANs in a way that increases with ranger spell ranks, however there seems to be a hard cap on how much CM defense you can generate because as you approach 2x CM, your mobility bonus approaches 0.

>Good news: as you approach 2x cman, the effects of critter cmans diminishes.
More good news: you have spells that help you reach an effective 2x Cman ranks without actually having the full ranks.

>Reality news: you're still going to get hit with cmans, even at 2x CMAN and full cdefense. Cutthroat is one I still get hit with, even at 2x cman, 2x PT (which I don't believe is a factor for cmans, only maneuver defense) 1x perception, and full plate.

Thanks for the feedback on that.

I don't really mind, but I was curious about lessening the impact as training points become available. Sometimes I get annoyed, and sometimes the challenge is fun. I think the stupid bandit net bugs me more than anything. I do tend to chime in on these conversations simply to make sure that things are working as intended. I also like to know the balance between developing my character and creating liabilities with my mutant training paths, so the feedback is helpful for letting me assess those things.

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~ Bill, Coyote.
"Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth." - Marcus Aurelius

>No evidence at all with this but a friend that 2x perception had a whole lot less issue with bandit traps then one with 1x. Only thing we could think on was perception.

With archery and hurling, I've been 2x'd in perception for a long time. It does seem to help.

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~ Bill, Coyote.
"Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth." - Marcus Aurelius

We were told flat out by a GM that perception and survival are weighted equally for detecting bandit traps.

Droit

---

Speaking to you, Ceyrin asks, "Do you spontaneously come back to life when you die?"
Speaking to you, Ceyrin says, "Because I do."
You say, "Yes. I have a condition called Annoraxia.""

They didn't say whether the skills had diminishing returns or not. All I'd assume is that x ranks of one is equal to the same number of ranks of the other.

Droit

---

Speaking to you, Ceyrin asks, "Do you spontaneously come back to life when you die?"
Speaking to you, Ceyrin says, "Because I do."
You say, "Yes. I have a condition called Annoraxia.""