Context
Paladins suffer from a severe lack of build diversity. This augmentation is designed for more pure oriented Paladin, while still retaining the flavor of a Paladin. That is to say, while the effects of Consecrate are magical, triggering the effect requires physical means.
Description:
Upon attaining 15 ranks of Religion Lore, the Paladin is now able to cast 1604 on enemy combatants. Casting Consecrate in this manner uses the CS of the Paladin vs the TD of the target. Successful outcomes yields a low amount of raw damage, a low plasma critical, and marks the target.
Mechanics:
The Damage Factor of Consecrate is a paltry 0.100 against living targets and 0.150 vs undead targets. The Damage Factor is increased by 1% per Religion Lore rank beyond rank 15. The plasma critical rank is calculated as trunc[((cs_outcome - 100) * damage_factor) / target_armor_crit_divisor]. The successful outcome has an added random component of -0 to -20. 1604 may be infused in bonded weapons. Successful CS resolutions mark the target creature. This mark can be seen on the target based on the number of charges the mark has: "a (dark|dim|dull|bright|radiant|resplendent) aura surrounds the (target)." If the Paladin successfully strikes a marked target with a weapon infused with Consecrate flares, the initial Consecrate weapon flare has a 100% chance of occurring, consuming one charge of the mark. A mark lasts for 60 seconds before dissipating. The mark gains additional charges at 35, 60, 90, 125, and 165 ranks of Religion Lore. Lastly, the target reduces their AS and DS by 10 per charge on the target.
When the Paladin attains 75 ranks of Religion Lore, successful CS resolutions cause the target to suffer from an immolation effect as the plasma continues to burn their body. See: Immolation.
Example With 35 Ranks of Religion Lore:
>prep 1604
You trace a simple symbol as you reverently call on your patron in the prayer for Consecrate...
Your spell is ready.
>cast estlid
You gesture at Estlid.
A dim haze assults Estlid.
CS: +501 - TD: +273 + CvA: +8 + d100: +98 == +334
Warding failed!
The sacred energy quickly coalesces around Estlid!
... 28 points of damage!
... 25 points of damage!
Glaring burst to Estlid's chest dances across skin leaving smoking holes!
He is stunned!
A dim aura surrounds Estlid
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.
>beseech my spikestar
You beseech your steel spikestar, causing violet flames to spring to life around it!
>attack Estlid
As you attempt to strike with your steel spikestar, it sends a surge of power through you that quickly leaps out at Estlid!
A dim haze assults Estlid.
CS: +501 - TD: +273 + CvA: +8 + d100: +98 == +334
Warding failed!
The sacred energy quickly coalesces around Estlid!
... 28 points of damage!
... 25 points of damage!
Glaring burst to Estlid's chest dances across skin leaving smoking holes!
He is stunned!
A dim aura surrounds Estlid
You swing a perfect steel spikestar at Estlid!
AS: +412 vs DS: +190 with AvD: +31 + d100 roll: +41 = +294
... and hit for 74 points of damage!
Slash across back of hand, tendons sliced!
Your steel spikestar pulses with a burst of plasma energy!
... 15 points of damage!
Searing strike to back causes Estlid to grunt in pain.
The dim arua around Estlid dissipates.
Roundtime: 6 sec.
GARGADON
FALAN
Re: Consecrate Augmentation
06/07/2015 10:49 PM CDT
Ironically being a Ronanite paladin, I'm going throw in a suggestion for religion flavor.. if they are a Lornon faith then the 1604 does more damage to the living creatures as a bane, and if they are of Liablo then focus on undead.
However; to add constructive criticism, it doesn't appear to be much more different than 1615 (Divine Strike) though this flavor of it is more targetted at paladins that are bonded to a weapon that has their guiding flares which means it'll do nothing for a paladin who chose to bond with a weighted / already flaring weapon. Maybe instead it could just do a small bit of the immolation effect over time although that would still make that 4th slot spell over powered. We also do (sort of) have an immolation already from the perspective of the spell Crusade which gives flares to everybody in the party as well as damage weighting regardless of what the weapon already has making it a must use during Kenstrom INvasdions
__________________________
- Kobold in Disguise Falvicar, Blade of the Night
You swing a silver-edged black veil iron katana at Sevynne!
* Sevynne drops dead at your feet!
* Sevynne just bit the dust!
However; to add constructive criticism, it doesn't appear to be much more different than 1615 (Divine Strike) though this flavor of it is more targetted at paladins that are bonded to a weapon that has their guiding flares which means it'll do nothing for a paladin who chose to bond with a weighted / already flaring weapon. Maybe instead it could just do a small bit of the immolation effect over time although that would still make that 4th slot spell over powered. We also do (sort of) have an immolation already from the perspective of the spell Crusade which gives flares to everybody in the party as well as damage weighting regardless of what the weapon already has making it a must use during Kenstrom INvasdions
__________________________
- Kobold in Disguise Falvicar, Blade of the Night
You swing a silver-edged black veil iron katana at Sevynne!
* Sevynne drops dead at your feet!
* Sevynne just bit the dust!
GARGADON
Re: Consecrate Augmentation
06/08/2015 01:59 AM CDT
>>Ironically being a Ronanite paladin, I'm going throw in a suggestion for religion flavor.. if they are a Lornon faith then the 1604 does more damage to the living creatures as a bane, and if they are of Liablo then focus on undead.
I purposefully left out the Liabo or Lornon distinction; I cannot stress enough how much I dislike the smite/bane system.
>>However; to add constructive criticism, it doesn't appear to be much more different than 1615 (Divine Strike) ...
Divine Strike Mechanics:
Raw Damage
Holy Critical
50% base chance to make the target kneel. Each rank of Religion Lore increases this by 2%. Note: This is NOT like Judgment which starts at a base of 35% and caps at 85% force the target to kneel. Also, Divine Strike chance to kneel is NOT modified by the level of the target. If the Paladin has 25 Religion lore ranks, the chance to kneel is 100%.
If the target is forced into a kneeling position then the target suffers 0 to 10 of Hard RT == trunc((outcome - 100) / 5).
Consecrate:
Raw Damage
Plasma Critical
Target suffers -10 AS and -10 DS per charge
Potential immolation effect based on lore
Automatic Plasma flare if target struck by Consecrated weapon
The only thing it has in common with DStrike is that it causes raw damage and a critical cycle, although different critical types for everyone except Lorminstra and potentially Zelia.
Can you explain in greater detail the similarities of the two spells?
>> ... though this flavor of it is more targetted at paladins that are bonded to a weapon that has their guiding flares which means it'll do nothing for a paladin who chose to bond with a weighted / already flaring weapon.
It will still cause raw damage, critical damage, -10 AS and -10 DS per charge, and potentially an immolation effect. The immolation effect is, in my estimation, incredibly strong. Paladins that choose not to use Consecrate flares can continue to do so.
>>We also do (sort of) have an immolation already from the perspective of the spell Crusade which gives flares to everybody in the party as well as damage weighting regardless of what the weapon already has making it a must use during Kenstrom INvasdions.
As an aside, I think Crusade is entirely useless with the single exception that is invasions.
By immolation effect, I meant setting the creature on fire. See bolded below. It briefly incapacitates the creature.
The thrust of my suggestion was to create synergies between (in this case, intra-spell!) spells in the Paladin base, creating more options for build diversity.
I purposefully left out the Liabo or Lornon distinction; I cannot stress enough how much I dislike the smite/bane system.
>>However; to add constructive criticism, it doesn't appear to be much more different than 1615 (Divine Strike) ...
Divine Strike Mechanics:
Raw Damage
Holy Critical
50% base chance to make the target kneel. Each rank of Religion Lore increases this by 2%. Note: This is NOT like Judgment which starts at a base of 35% and caps at 85% force the target to kneel. Also, Divine Strike chance to kneel is NOT modified by the level of the target. If the Paladin has 25 Religion lore ranks, the chance to kneel is 100%.
If the target is forced into a kneeling position then the target suffers 0 to 10 of Hard RT == trunc((outcome - 100) / 5).
Consecrate:
Raw Damage
Plasma Critical
Target suffers -10 AS and -10 DS per charge
Potential immolation effect based on lore
Automatic Plasma flare if target struck by Consecrated weapon
The only thing it has in common with DStrike is that it causes raw damage and a critical cycle, although different critical types for everyone except Lorminstra and potentially Zelia.
Can you explain in greater detail the similarities of the two spells?
>> ... though this flavor of it is more targetted at paladins that are bonded to a weapon that has their guiding flares which means it'll do nothing for a paladin who chose to bond with a weighted / already flaring weapon.
It will still cause raw damage, critical damage, -10 AS and -10 DS per charge, and potentially an immolation effect. The immolation effect is, in my estimation, incredibly strong. Paladins that choose not to use Consecrate flares can continue to do so.
>>We also do (sort of) have an immolation already from the perspective of the spell Crusade which gives flares to everybody in the party as well as damage weighting regardless of what the weapon already has making it a must use during Kenstrom INvasdions.
As an aside, I think Crusade is entirely useless with the single exception that is invasions.
By immolation effect, I meant setting the creature on fire. See bolded below. It briefly incapacitates the creature.
| You gesture at a spectral triton defender. |
| CS: +524 - TD: +400 + CvA: +20 + d100: +65 == +209 |
| Warding failed! |
| Wisps of black smoke swirl around a spectral triton defender and she bursts into flame! |
| ... 25 points of damage! |
| Massive blow strikes the triton defender and drives it back! |
| Good thing those ribs aren't made of bone. |
| ... 35 points of damage! |
| Vicious blow to neck might have been fatal a few centuries ago. |
| ... 30 points of damage! |
| Strong hit to the chest! |
| Tendrils of mist explode as the strike passes right through. |
| ... 60 points of damage! |
| Mighty blow rips through the triton defender's chest, causing it to pause as it reforms. |
| ... 40 points of damage! |
| A massive blow to the left shoulder hoists the triton defender high into the air. |
| It hangs there a moment, suspended, before falling forward. |
| The flames around a spectral triton defender continue to burn! |
| Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds. |
The thrust of my suggestion was to create synergies between (in this case, intra-spell!) spells in the Paladin base, creating more options for build diversity.
FALAN
Re: Consecrate Augmentation
06/08/2015 12:24 PM CDT
What's to not like about the bane/smite system? It makes sense that a Luukos follower would do more damage to a living creature than undead and vice versa for a follower of Ronan.
Your damage suggestions to the "paladin rot flares" (as I'll call them at this point) isn't that far from what 1615 usually does asides that divine strike also forces MOST targets to kneel - let alone with Judgement does for that matter in aoe. However; ultimately this is a 4th spell circle spell that you're suggesting for a huge change that would cause upset to game balance. Now if it's a higher level circle, then I could agree but I know not where exactly I would place this but I certainly wouldn't want this as a 50th slot nor 40th for that matter.
1614 Lowers defenses of effected targets, and let's not forget 1602 that adds more RT to targets, nor forget that we (as paladins) have plenty of ways to boost up our own AS without the need of society symbols.
Crusade isn't just useful during invasions. I often do find myself using it when I am getting swarmed within the Rift or even when at the bowels if I'm there for whatever reason. I often group with others and offer my spells to help them go on hunts or bandits etc.
Do you really think we need an immolation effect with crusade, and guiding flares already with us? Have you not tried an open ambush to behead said creatures? Some paladins are able to have their weapons get esorced by sorcerers and get various effects. Some folks have rot flares as well. Top that off with the guiding flares or weighting/other flares of the weapon and add crusade and you effectively have that effect that your showing with a gesture at triton defender (Actually better I'd argue) but that's not needed. It's overkill. Why not just divine strike the defender and then do an ambush to be head them to get it over with? Granted, you will miss their head sometimes, but for the cost of 1 extra RT (6 second swing) you'll have the creature dead instead of trying to just do a million damage over time. We're melee casters, not wizards/sorcerers/etc
__________________________
- Kobold in Disguise Falvicar, Blade of the Night
You swing a silver-edged black veil iron katana at Sevynne!
* Sevynne drops dead at your feet!
* Sevynne just bit the dust!
Your damage suggestions to the "paladin rot flares" (as I'll call them at this point) isn't that far from what 1615 usually does asides that divine strike also forces MOST targets to kneel - let alone with Judgement does for that matter in aoe. However; ultimately this is a 4th spell circle spell that you're suggesting for a huge change that would cause upset to game balance. Now if it's a higher level circle, then I could agree but I know not where exactly I would place this but I certainly wouldn't want this as a 50th slot nor 40th for that matter.
1614 Lowers defenses of effected targets, and let's not forget 1602 that adds more RT to targets, nor forget that we (as paladins) have plenty of ways to boost up our own AS without the need of society symbols.
Crusade isn't just useful during invasions. I often do find myself using it when I am getting swarmed within the Rift or even when at the bowels if I'm there for whatever reason. I often group with others and offer my spells to help them go on hunts or bandits etc.
Do you really think we need an immolation effect with crusade, and guiding flares already with us? Have you not tried an open ambush to behead said creatures? Some paladins are able to have their weapons get esorced by sorcerers and get various effects. Some folks have rot flares as well. Top that off with the guiding flares or weighting/other flares of the weapon and add crusade and you effectively have that effect that your showing with a gesture at triton defender (Actually better I'd argue) but that's not needed. It's overkill. Why not just divine strike the defender and then do an ambush to be head them to get it over with? Granted, you will miss their head sometimes, but for the cost of 1 extra RT (6 second swing) you'll have the creature dead instead of trying to just do a million damage over time. We're melee casters, not wizards/sorcerers/etc
__________________________
- Kobold in Disguise Falvicar, Blade of the Night
You swing a silver-edged black veil iron katana at Sevynne!
* Sevynne drops dead at your feet!
* Sevynne just bit the dust!
ZHOUY1
Re: Consecrate Augmentation
06/08/2015 01:48 PM CDT
>What's to not like about the bane/smite system? It makes sense that a Luukos follower would do more damage to a living creature than undead and vice versa for a follower of Ronan.
I can't speak to why others dislike it, but I think the Smite/Bane system is a vast simplification of how the Arkati interact with the world.
In the grand scheme of things, undeath is not very important. It is central to the Lorminstra/Ronan/Voln vs. Luukos/Sheru conflict, which has historically drawn a lot of attention around Landing and various human settlements, and tangentially also Lumnis vs. Fash'lo'nae (even though in this case Fash'lo'nae is actually a Smite deity), but there are many other conflicts. Where does Oleani vs. Ivas come down on the question of souls refusing to pass on because they still cling to their mortal loves? Does it really make sense that the main distinctions between Kai vs. V'tull, or Imaera vs. Andelas, are about the undead at all?
I can't speak to why others dislike it, but I think the Smite/Bane system is a vast simplification of how the Arkati interact with the world.
In the grand scheme of things, undeath is not very important. It is central to the Lorminstra/Ronan/Voln vs. Luukos/Sheru conflict, which has historically drawn a lot of attention around Landing and various human settlements, and tangentially also Lumnis vs. Fash'lo'nae (even though in this case Fash'lo'nae is actually a Smite deity), but there are many other conflicts. Where does Oleani vs. Ivas come down on the question of souls refusing to pass on because they still cling to their mortal loves? Does it really make sense that the main distinctions between Kai vs. V'tull, or Imaera vs. Andelas, are about the undead at all?
SVEN2010
Re: Consecrate Augmentation
06/08/2015 09:03 PM CDT
I would also vehemently oppose any additions to Paladins that ignore the Liabo/Lornon divide. Words cannot express how much I loathe the fact that Paladins have completely ignored every bit of the smite/bane mechanics set up by clerics (who follow the same exact deities) and the documentation created through the years. It is completely illogical mechanically, and it is completely illogical from an RP perspective. 1604 and 1625 already drive me nuts. Had I thought it through more, I would never have converted from a cleric all those years ago.
In terms of it being an oversimplification- I disagree. It's been stated in a variety of documentation that Lornon Arkati get their power from the use and abuse of the living. An Arkati/Spirit like Luukos or Sheru would obviously actively oppose the destruction of the undead because they are such valuable tools. The others would simply be completely uninterested in battling the undead as there's nothing in it for them (aside from pissing off allies). There's no reason why they would expend resources towards it. And there is every reason why they would focus their Paladins on being more powerful against the living as it would help them draw power for their deity.
But back to the spell suggestion- I love that you're trying to create some diversity here. The profession is woefully one dimensional. But, I also agree with the critique that this isn't the way to do it.
In order to flesh Paladins out more, I'd actually first prefer to see more RP adjustments to the spells. That includes a more thoughtful approach to undead vs living targets and more creative deity-specific messaging in the spells.
After that, I'd rather see more emphasis on utility abilities to create a more three dimensional profession.
In terms of it being an oversimplification- I disagree. It's been stated in a variety of documentation that Lornon Arkati get their power from the use and abuse of the living. An Arkati/Spirit like Luukos or Sheru would obviously actively oppose the destruction of the undead because they are such valuable tools. The others would simply be completely uninterested in battling the undead as there's nothing in it for them (aside from pissing off allies). There's no reason why they would expend resources towards it. And there is every reason why they would focus their Paladins on being more powerful against the living as it would help them draw power for their deity.
But back to the spell suggestion- I love that you're trying to create some diversity here. The profession is woefully one dimensional. But, I also agree with the critique that this isn't the way to do it.
In order to flesh Paladins out more, I'd actually first prefer to see more RP adjustments to the spells. That includes a more thoughtful approach to undead vs living targets and more creative deity-specific messaging in the spells.
After that, I'd rather see more emphasis on utility abilities to create a more three dimensional profession.
GARGADON
Re: Consecrate Augmentation
06/09/2015 03:40 PM CDT
>>What's to not like about the bane/smite system? It makes sense that a Luukos follower would do more damage to a living creature than undead and vice versa for a follower of Ronan.
Mechanically, I simply do not like binary game constructs much. More to the point, given the mechanics of the 302, Liabo and Lornon Clerics do not do more damage to the undead and living, respectively. Rather, Liabo and Lornon Clerics do less damage to living and undead, respectively. It's a subtle but significant difference. From a Flavor perspective, I think reducing the many varied perspectives, cultures, behaviors, ethos, etc. that followers of a religion express to a simple binary construct is profoundly infantile; it reeks of Good vs Evil and I immediately unburden myself of any black and white distinctions when I recognize them.
>>Your damage suggestions to the "paladin rot flares" (as I'll call them at this point) isn't that far from what 1615 usually does asides that divine strike also forces MOST targets to kneel - let alone with Judgement does for that matter in aoe.
I think you would be wrong to conflate Rot Flares with my Consecrate idea, and I'm unsure as why you would want to liken the two. I'm still not sure you understand. I laid out very specifically what Divine Strike currently does and what Consecrate might do, then highlighted the overlaps. The effects are objectively not similar aside from what was stated as the raw damage cycle and the crit damage cycle.
>>However; ultimately this is a 4th spell circle spell that you're suggesting for a huge change that would cause upset to game balance. Now if it's a higher level circle, then I could agree but I know not where exactly I would place this but I certainly wouldn't want this as a 50th slot nor 40th for that matter.
Now this I agree with, that is to say, the need to balance the power of a 4th level spell. I deliberately selected Consecrate because once a Paladin learns 1625, the need for 1604 diminishes dramatically. I've had to renew mana bread once in the dead of night when no one was logged into the game. Perhaps as a means of balancing the spell, the resource cost could be increased or power reduced. I'm fine with either.
>>1614 Lowers defenses of effected targets, ...
True.
>>... and let's not forget 1602 that adds more RT to targets, ...
True.
>>... nor forget that we (as paladins) have plenty of ways to boost up our own AS without the need of society symbols.
True.
What conclusions are you drawing with this facts?
>>Crusade isn't just useful during invasions. I often do find myself using it when I am getting swarmed within the Rift or even when at the bowels if I'm there for whatever reason. I often group with others and offer my spells to help them go on hunts or bandits etc.
I don't doubt you use it during your hunts when it swarms or when group hunting. What I doubt, and what the data does not support, is its effectiveness. Consider a paladin with 35 ranks of Religion for an additional 14% flare rate coupled with a base 10% for a total of 24%. I won't mention the damage weighting other than to say damage weighting is appalling bad. That's roughly 1 in 4 swings where the weapon flares. If the attack kills the target then the weapon cannot flare. If you aim for a vital location on a target, as all melee users absolutely should, then the flare rarely has a chance to trigger. It's just not good for an efficient melee hunter. Again, if you are not aiming your melee weapon, you are doing yourself a disservice. Additionally, flares are severely reduced in effectiveness against targets with crit padding (I can provide data if you need, the initial consecrate flare ranges from 1 to 7 for creatures without crit padding. For creatures like Minotaur Warriors with roughly 10 points of crit padding, the crit range is restricted to 1 to 5). Personally, I don't use flares if there is an opportunity cost, because, again aiming. The opportunity cost of Crusade is too great compared to using other spells in the Paladin arsenal. Below is taken from a single hunt just moments ago. I infuse 5 ranks of 1615 into my spikestar with 25 religion lore because I don't like dealing with spell hindrance, but I could just as easily use 1615 without infusing it. Note the number of times a flare could have actually occurred. Also note that I have Consecrate flares on my spikestar and how many times a Consecrate flare occurred.
Now, it may sound like I'm torpedoing my own suggestion, but it's the opposite. Instead of Consecrate having a random occurrence, it would be automatic, with a chance to have a second flare. Think of it as a spell that causes a little raw damage, a small plasma critical, a consecrate flare, and the potential for a second more powerful plasma critical flare. However, to trigger the latter two effects requires physical means, thus keeping in line with the melee caster theme.
Alternatively, how about having the plasma flares from Consecrate hit the location hit by the weapon?! Targeted flares!
>>Do you really think we need an immolation effect with crusade, and guiding flares already with us?
At this point it seems that you do not understand what the immolation effect does. The immolation effect from 519, as I bolded previously, puts the creature into 10 seconds of RT. After those 10 seconds are up, the creature has a small chance to extinguish the flames. If the creature does not extinguish the flames, they suffer 10 more seconds of RT. It is a means of disabling a creature. Divine Strike will not force a target to kneel if they are immune to knockdowns. Roughly 80 creatures are immune to knockdowns.
>>Have you not tried an open ambush to behead said creatures?
See above.
>>Some paladins are able to have their weapons get esorced by sorcerers and get various effects.
True. Relevance?
>>Some folks have rot flares as well.
True. Relevance?
>>Top that off with the guiding flares or weighting/other flares of the weapon and add crusade and you effectively have that effect that your showing with a gesture at triton defender (Actually better I'd argue) but that's not needed. It's overkill.
I'm not talking about the crit damage from immolation. I'm referring to the disabling effect. See above.
>>Why not just divine strike the defender and then do an ambush to be head them to get it over with?
Something tells me you have engaged a spectral defender; if you had, you would know the answer.
>> It's been stated in a variety of documentation that Lornon Arkati get their power from the use and abuse of the living.
[Citation Needed]
>>For reasons that have been listed by various folks over the years, there are very good reasons for mirroring the smite/bane divide of clerics when discussing Paladins.
[Citation Needed]
>>It is completely illogical mechanically, and it is completely illogical from an RP perspective. 1604 and 1625 already drive me nuts.
I totally agree. Smite/Bane is absurdly ridiculous. It saddens me that you're advocating for the needless degeneration to a superficial archetype.
>>Had I thought it through more, I would never have converted from a cleric all those years ago.
You... You didn't think about what converting to a Paladin would entail?
All this smite/bane talk offends my delicate Atheist Paladin sensibilities.
Mechanically, I simply do not like binary game constructs much. More to the point, given the mechanics of the 302, Liabo and Lornon Clerics do not do more damage to the undead and living, respectively. Rather, Liabo and Lornon Clerics do less damage to living and undead, respectively. It's a subtle but significant difference. From a Flavor perspective, I think reducing the many varied perspectives, cultures, behaviors, ethos, etc. that followers of a religion express to a simple binary construct is profoundly infantile; it reeks of Good vs Evil and I immediately unburden myself of any black and white distinctions when I recognize them.
>>Your damage suggestions to the "paladin rot flares" (as I'll call them at this point) isn't that far from what 1615 usually does asides that divine strike also forces MOST targets to kneel - let alone with Judgement does for that matter in aoe.
I think you would be wrong to conflate Rot Flares with my Consecrate idea, and I'm unsure as why you would want to liken the two. I'm still not sure you understand. I laid out very specifically what Divine Strike currently does and what Consecrate might do, then highlighted the overlaps. The effects are objectively not similar aside from what was stated as the raw damage cycle and the crit damage cycle.
>>However; ultimately this is a 4th spell circle spell that you're suggesting for a huge change that would cause upset to game balance. Now if it's a higher level circle, then I could agree but I know not where exactly I would place this but I certainly wouldn't want this as a 50th slot nor 40th for that matter.
Now this I agree with, that is to say, the need to balance the power of a 4th level spell. I deliberately selected Consecrate because once a Paladin learns 1625, the need for 1604 diminishes dramatically. I've had to renew mana bread once in the dead of night when no one was logged into the game. Perhaps as a means of balancing the spell, the resource cost could be increased or power reduced. I'm fine with either.
>>1614 Lowers defenses of effected targets, ...
True.
>>... and let's not forget 1602 that adds more RT to targets, ...
True.
>>... nor forget that we (as paladins) have plenty of ways to boost up our own AS without the need of society symbols.
True.
What conclusions are you drawing with this facts?
>>Crusade isn't just useful during invasions. I often do find myself using it when I am getting swarmed within the Rift or even when at the bowels if I'm there for whatever reason. I often group with others and offer my spells to help them go on hunts or bandits etc.
I don't doubt you use it during your hunts when it swarms or when group hunting. What I doubt, and what the data does not support, is its effectiveness. Consider a paladin with 35 ranks of Religion for an additional 14% flare rate coupled with a base 10% for a total of 24%. I won't mention the damage weighting other than to say damage weighting is appalling bad. That's roughly 1 in 4 swings where the weapon flares. If the attack kills the target then the weapon cannot flare. If you aim for a vital location on a target, as all melee users absolutely should, then the flare rarely has a chance to trigger. It's just not good for an efficient melee hunter. Again, if you are not aiming your melee weapon, you are doing yourself a disservice. Additionally, flares are severely reduced in effectiveness against targets with crit padding (I can provide data if you need, the initial consecrate flare ranges from 1 to 7 for creatures without crit padding. For creatures like Minotaur Warriors with roughly 10 points of crit padding, the crit range is restricted to 1 to 5). Personally, I don't use flares if there is an opportunity cost, because, again aiming. The opportunity cost of Crusade is too great compared to using other spells in the Paladin arsenal. Below is taken from a single hunt just moments ago. I infuse 5 ranks of 1615 into my spikestar with 25 religion lore because I don't like dealing with spell hindrance, but I could just as easily use 1615 without infusing it. Note the number of times a flare could have actually occurred. Also note that I have Consecrate flares on my spikestar and how many times a Consecrate flare occurred.
| As you attempt to strike with your steel spikestar, it sends a surge of power through you that quickly leaps out at the minotaur! |
| A pillar of grey luminescence manifests around a lesser minotaur. |
| CS: +328 - TD: +234 + CvA: +8 + d100: +53 == +155 |
| Warding failed! |
| Waves of sacred energy tear through the lesser minotaur's body! |
| ... 40 points of damage! |
| ... 20 points of damage! |
| A curling tongue of blue flame sears the skin on the lesser minotaur's stomach. |
| The lesser minotaur is driven to his knees! |
| You swing a perfect steel spikestar at a lesser minotaur! |
| AS: +427 vs DS: +225 with AvD: +31 + d100 roll: +95 = +328 |
| ... and hit for 112 points of damage! |
| Tremendous blow crushes skull like a ripe melon. |
| [You have earned 60 prestige points.] |
| A low gurgling sound comes from deep within the chest of the lesser minotaur as he falls slack against the floor. |
| Roundtime: 6 sec. |
| R> |
| As you attempt to strike with your steel spikestar, it sends a surge of power through you that quickly leaps out at the warrior! |
| A pillar of grey luminescence manifests around a minotaur warrior. |
| CS: +328 - TD: +228 + CvA: +8 + d100: +8 == +116 |
| Warding failed! |
| Waves of sacred energy tear through the minotaur warrior's body! |
| ... 19 points of damage! |
| ... 15 points of damage! |
| Insignificant burns to the minotaur warrior's neck. |
| The minotaur warrior is driven to his knees! |
| You swing a perfect steel spikestar at a minotaur warrior! |
| AS: +427 vs DS: +210 with AvD: +31 + d100 roll: +62 = +310 |
| ... and hit for 96 points of damage! |
| Amazing shot through the minotaur warrior's nose enters the brain! |
| [You have earned 50 prestige points.] |
| With a surprised grunt, the minotaur warrior twitches one final time before falling still upon the floor. |
| Roundtime: 6 sec. |
| As you attempt to strike with your steel spikestar, it sends a surge of power through you that quickly leaps out at the warrior! |
| A pillar of grey luminescence manifests around a minotaur warrior. |
| CS: +328 - TD: +228 + CvA: +8 + d100: +51 == +159 |
| Warding failed! |
| Waves of sacred energy tear through the minotaur warrior's body! |
| ... 30 points of damage! |
| ... 20 points of damage! |
| Searing bolt of energy strikes the minotaur warrior, scorching a wide swath of flesh! |
| The minotaur warrior is driven to his knees! |
| You swing a perfect steel spikestar at a minotaur warrior! |
| AS: +427 vs DS: +210 with AvD: +31 + d100 roll: +65 = +313 |
| ... and hit for 97 points of damage! |
| Amazing shot through the minotaur warrior's nose enters the brain! |
| [You have earned 50 prestige points.] |
| With a surprised grunt, the minotaur warrior twitches one final time before falling still upon the floor. |
| Roundtime: 6 sec. |
| R> |
| As you attempt to strike with your steel spikestar, it sends a surge of power through you that quickly leaps out at the warrior! |
| A pillar of grey luminescence manifests around a minotaur warrior. |
| CS: +328 - TD: +228 + CvA: +8 + d100: +82 == +190 |
| Warding failed! |
| Waves of sacred energy tear through the minotaur warrior's body! |
| ... 40 points of damage! |
| ... 35 points of damage! |
| Streaking blast of plasma fills the minotaur warrior's mouth searing away the tongue! |
| The minotaur warrior is driven to his knees! |
| You swing a perfect steel spikestar at a minotaur warrior! |
| AS: +427 vs DS: +156 with AvD: +31 + d100 roll: +65 = +367 |
| ... and hit for 115 points of damage! |
| Whoosh! Several ribs driven into lungs. |
| Roundtime: 6 sec. |
| R> |
| You swing a perfect steel spikestar at a minotaur warrior! |
| AS: +427 vs DS: +144 with AvD: +31 + d100 roll: +13 = +327 |
| ... and hit for 91 points of damage! |
| Neck broken. |
| The minotaur warrior twitches several times before dying. |
| [You have earned 50 prestige points.] |
| With a surprised grunt, the minotaur warrior twitches one final time before falling still upon the floor. |
| Roundtime: 6 sec. |
| As you attempt to strike with your steel spikestar, it sends a surge of power through you that quickly leaps out at the minotaur! |
| A pillar of grey luminescence manifests around a lesser minotaur. |
| CS: +328 - TD: +222 + CvA: +8 + d100: +50 == +164 |
| Warding failed! |
| Waves of sacred energy tear through the lesser minotaur's body! |
| ... 46 points of damage! |
| [ Sigil of Major Bane: +0:01:00, 0:01:00 remaining. ] |
| ... 25 points of damage! |
| Plasma scorches a hole in the lesser minotaur's weapon arm! |
| The lesser minotaur is stunned! |
| The lesser minotaur is driven to his knees! |
| You swing a perfect steel spikestar at a lesser minotaur! |
| AS: +427 vs DS: +209 with AvD: +31 + d100 roll: +98 = +347 |
| ... and hit for 113 points of damage! |
| Strike through both ears, foe is quite dead! |
| [You have earned 40 prestige points.] |
| A low gurgling sound comes from deep within the chest of the lesser minotaur as he falls slack against the floor. |
| Roundtime: 6 sec. |
| As you attempt to strike with your steel spikestar, it sends a surge of power through you that quickly leaps out at the warrior! |
| A pillar of grey luminescence manifests around a minotaur warrior. |
| CS: +328 - TD: +231 + CvA: +8 + d100: +64 == +169 |
| Warding failed! |
| Waves of sacred energy tear through the minotaur warrior's body! |
| ... 35 points of damage! |
| ... 25 points of damage! |
| Plasma scalds the minotaur warrior's stomach leaving painful red streaks. |
| The minotaur warrior is driven to his knees! |
| You swing a perfect steel spikestar at a minotaur warrior! |
| AS: +427 vs DS: +220 with AvD: +31 + d100 roll: +82 = +320 |
| ... and hit for 104 points of damage! |
| Deft strike to the back cracks vertebrae! |
| The minotaur warrior is knocked to the ground! |
| Roundtime: 6 sec. |
| You swing a perfect steel spikestar at a minotaur warrior! |
| AS: +427 vs DS: +202 with AvD: +31 + d100 roll: +70 = +326 |
| ... and hit for 111 points of damage! |
| Strike pierces temple and kills foe instantly! |
| [You have earned 55 prestige points.] |
| With a surprised grunt, the minotaur warrior twitches one final time before falling still upon the floor. |
| Roundtime: 6 sec. |
| As you attempt to strike with your steel spikestar, it sends a surge of power through you that quickly leaps out at the minotaur! |
| A pillar of grey luminescence manifests around a lesser minotaur. |
| CS: +328 - TD: +228 + CvA: +8 + d100: +93 == +201 |
| Warding failed! |
| Waves of sacred energy tear through the lesser minotaur's body! |
| ... 46 points of damage! |
| ... 30 points of damage! |
| Blistering strike to leg shrivels skin and causes excruciating pain. |
| The lesser minotaur is driven to his knees! |
| You swing a perfect steel spikestar at a lesser minotaur! |
| AS: +427 vs DS: +208 with AvD: +31 + d100 roll: +46 = +296 |
| ... and hit for 106 points of damage! |
| Brain driven into neck by mammoth downswing! |
| [You have earned 50 prestige points.] |
| A low gurgling sound comes from deep within the chest of the lesser minotaur as he falls slack against the floor. |
| Roundtime: 6 sec. |
| As you attempt to strike with your steel spikestar, it sends a surge of power through you that quickly leaps out at the warrior! |
| A pillar of grey luminescence manifests around a minotaur warrior. |
| CS: +328 - TD: +228 + CvA: +8 + d100: +11 == +119 |
| Warding failed! |
| Waves of sacred energy tear through the minotaur warrior's body! |
| ... 22 points of damage! |
| ... 10 points of damage! |
| Light burns to the minotaur warrior's leg. |
| The minotaur warrior is driven to his knees! |
| You swing a perfect steel spikestar at a minotaur warrior! |
| AS: +427 vs DS: +204 with AvD: +31 + d100 roll: +52 = +306 |
| ... and hit for 134 points of damage! |
| Massive blow punches a hole through the minotaur warrior's chest! |
| Roundtime: 6 sec. |
| R> |
| You swing a perfect steel spikestar at a minotaur warrior! |
| AS: +427 vs DS: +188 with AvD: +31 + d100 roll: +11 = +281 |
| ... and hit for 91 points of damage! |
| Mighty swing separates head from shoulders. |
| [You have earned 50 prestige points.] |
| With a surprised grunt, the minotaur warrior twitches one final time before falling still upon the floor. |
| Roundtime: 6 sec. |
| As you attempt to strike with your steel spikestar, it sends a surge of power through you that quickly leaps out at the warrior! |
| A pillar of grey luminescence manifests around a minotaur warrior. |
| CS: +328 - TD: +237 + CvA: +8 + d100: +79 == +178 |
| Warding failed! |
| Waves of sacred energy tear through the minotaur warrior's body! |
| ... 44 points of damage! |
| ... 25 points of damage! |
| Searing blast of energy to hip spins the minotaur warrior around! |
| The minotaur warrior is driven to his knees! |
| You swing a perfect steel spikestar at a minotaur warrior! |
| AS: +427 vs DS: +218 with AvD: +31 + d100 roll: +47 = +287 |
| ... and hit for 103 points of damage! |
| Brain driven into neck by mammoth downswing! |
| [You have earned 65 prestige points.] |
| With a surprised grunt, the minotaur warrior twitches one final time before falling still upon the floor. |
| Roundtime: 6 sec. |
| As you attempt to strike with your steel spikestar, it sends a surge of power through you that quickly leaps out at the minotaur! |
| A pillar of grey luminescence manifests around a lesser minotaur. |
| CS: +328 - TD: +216 + CvA: +8 + d100: +7 == +127 |
| Warding failed! |
| Waves of sacred energy tear through the lesser minotaur's body! |
| ... 21 points of damage! |
| ... 15 points of damage! |
| Flash burns to eye momentarily blind the lesser minotaur. |
| The lesser minotaur is stunned! |
| The lesser minotaur is driven to his knees! |
| You swing a perfect steel spikestar at a lesser minotaur! |
| AS: +427 vs DS: +194 with AvD: +31 + d100 roll: +47 = +311 |
| ... and hit for 121 points of damage! |
| Incredible blast shatters head into a red spray. |
| [You have earned 30 prestige points.] |
| A low gurgling sound comes from deep within the chest of the lesser minotaur as he falls slack against the floor. |
| Roundtime: 6 sec. |
| As you attempt to strike with your steel spikestar, it sends a surge of power through you that quickly leaps out at the warrior! |
| A pillar of grey luminescence manifests around a minotaur warrior. |
| CS: +328 - TD: +228 + CvA: +8 + d100: +28 == +136 |
| Warding failed! |
| Waves of sacred energy tear through the minotaur warrior's body! |
| ... 30 points of damage! |
| ... 10 points of damage! |
| Pinpoint strike sears the minotaur warrior's chest. |
| The minotaur warrior is driven to his knees! |
| You swing a perfect steel spikestar at a minotaur warrior! |
| AS: +427 vs DS: +210 with AvD: +31 + d100 roll: +67 = +315 |
| ... and hit for 102 points of damage! |
| Strike through both ears, foe is quite dead! |
| [You have earned 50 prestige points.] |
| With a surprised grunt, the minotaur warrior twitches one final time before falling still upon the floor. |
| Roundtime: 6 sec. |
| As you attempt to strike with your steel spikestar, it sends a surge of power through you that quickly leaps out at the warrior! |
| A pillar of grey luminescence manifests around a minotaur warrior. |
| CS: +328 - TD: +240 + CvA: +8 + d100: +8 == +104 |
| Warding failed! |
| Waves of sacred energy tear through the minotaur warrior's body! |
| ... 17 points of damage! |
| ... 5 points of damage! |
| Stinging burn to the minotaur warrior's hand. |
| The minotaur warrior is driven to his knees! |
| You swing a perfect steel spikestar at a minotaur warrior! |
| AS: +427 vs DS: +228 with AvD: +31 + d100 roll: +14 = +244 |
| ... and hit for 69 points of damage! |
| Skull cracks in several places. |
| Roundtime: 6 sec. |
| You swing a perfect steel spikestar at a minotaur warrior! |
| [ Sigil of Major Bane: +0:01:00, 0:00:59 remaining. ] |
| AS: +427 vs DS: +162 with AvD: +31 + d100 roll: +34 = +330 |
| ... and hit for 108 points of damage! |
| Strike punctures thigh and shatters femur! |
| The minotaur warrior is knocked to the ground! |
| Roundtime: 6 sec. |
| R> |
| You swing a perfect steel spikestar at a minotaur warrior! |
| AS: +427 vs DS: +128 with AvD: +31 + d100 roll: +38 = +368 |
| ... and hit for 150 points of damage! |
| Blow cracks a rib and punctures a lung. |
| Breathing becomes a challenge. |
| [You have earned 70 prestige points.] |
| With a surprised grunt, the minotaur warrior twitches one final time before falling still upon the floor. |
| Roundtime: 6 sec. |
Now, it may sound like I'm torpedoing my own suggestion, but it's the opposite. Instead of Consecrate having a random occurrence, it would be automatic, with a chance to have a second flare. Think of it as a spell that causes a little raw damage, a small plasma critical, a consecrate flare, and the potential for a second more powerful plasma critical flare. However, to trigger the latter two effects requires physical means, thus keeping in line with the melee caster theme.
Alternatively, how about having the plasma flares from Consecrate hit the location hit by the weapon?! Targeted flares!
>>Do you really think we need an immolation effect with crusade, and guiding flares already with us?
At this point it seems that you do not understand what the immolation effect does. The immolation effect from 519, as I bolded previously, puts the creature into 10 seconds of RT. After those 10 seconds are up, the creature has a small chance to extinguish the flames. If the creature does not extinguish the flames, they suffer 10 more seconds of RT. It is a means of disabling a creature. Divine Strike will not force a target to kneel if they are immune to knockdowns. Roughly 80 creatures are immune to knockdowns.
>>Have you not tried an open ambush to behead said creatures?
See above.
>>Some paladins are able to have their weapons get esorced by sorcerers and get various effects.
True. Relevance?
>>Some folks have rot flares as well.
True. Relevance?
>>Top that off with the guiding flares or weighting/other flares of the weapon and add crusade and you effectively have that effect that your showing with a gesture at triton defender (Actually better I'd argue) but that's not needed. It's overkill.
I'm not talking about the crit damage from immolation. I'm referring to the disabling effect. See above.
>>Why not just divine strike the defender and then do an ambush to be head them to get it over with?
Something tells me you have engaged a spectral defender; if you had, you would know the answer.
>> It's been stated in a variety of documentation that Lornon Arkati get their power from the use and abuse of the living.
[Citation Needed]
>>For reasons that have been listed by various folks over the years, there are very good reasons for mirroring the smite/bane divide of clerics when discussing Paladins.
[Citation Needed]
>>It is completely illogical mechanically, and it is completely illogical from an RP perspective. 1604 and 1625 already drive me nuts.
I totally agree. Smite/Bane is absurdly ridiculous. It saddens me that you're advocating for the needless degeneration to a superficial archetype.
>>Had I thought it through more, I would never have converted from a cleric all those years ago.
You... You didn't think about what converting to a Paladin would entail?
All this smite/bane talk offends my delicate Atheist Paladin sensibilities.
FALAN
Re: Consecrate Augmentation
06/09/2015 09:15 PM CDT
>>Mechanically, I simply do not like binary game constructs much. More to the point, given the mechanics of the 302, Liabo and Lornon Clerics do not >>do more damage to the undead and living, respectively. Rather, Liabo and Lornon Clerics do less damage to living and undead, respectively. It's a >>subtle but significant difference. From a Flavor perspective, I think reducing the many varied perspectives, cultures, behaviors, ethos, etc. that >>followers of a religion express to a simple binary construct is profoundly infantile; it reeks of Good vs Evil and I immediately unburden myself of >>any black and white distinctions when I recognize them.
It's been a while since I've been a cleric, but I remember channeling a few spells although I do not recall if 302 was one of them or not off the top of my head. However; I believe at that point Lore was introduced and what helped see the actual difference of damage, but I loved the flavor of Good vs Evil vs Neutral (Let us not forget Gos nor Lady Z that the Lornon and Liablo nae claim). I wouldn't go as far as to say it's an ultimatum black and white because the cleric/paladin could still strike both living and undead although he/she get more damage attacking one vs the other. If I recall correctly too, one of the mechanics was that Smite had a chance to outright kill the undead and same with Bane although I don't know if that holds true to this day or not. Regardless, flavor is wonderful because it more defines your paladin's service to his/her deity to do their will because the paladin is the champion of him/her.
>I think you would be wrong to conflate Rot Flares with my Consecrate idea, and I'm unsure as why you would want to liken the two. I'm still not sure >you understand. I laid out very specifically what Divine Strike currently does and what Consecrate might do, then highlighted the overlaps. The >effects are objectively not similar aside from what was stated as the raw damage cycle and the crit damage cycle.
You're missing the point, Spock. 1604 is a 4th level circle and us paladin don't need another RT adding spell. In addition, 1601 (Trial) adds RT and can be cast open to hit many targets with Blessing Lore. However; I can agree that overall the spell as is is in fact useless to me other than freshening up mana bread, popping open the GY gate from time to time when not helping others receive a blessing up their weapon to let it last longer, or the super rare occurrences when I decide to use one of my toys stored in my locker (other eonake two handed weapons that I can put guiding flares upon). However; it's still a utility spell and not so much an offensive spell thus why I'm okay with with it is as a 4th slot spell.
When all said and done with the rest.. my conclusion is showing we have plenty of "gas in the tank" thus why your suggestion (respectfully) isn't really adding on and would ironically be rarely used or not so much needed unless in a specific situation where it's damage that matters because said target can't be critted. Just to clarify too (in Divine Strike's defense), when a creature is immune to kneeling that doesn't mean you can't switch your AIM and chop off one of their legs to make them lie down and then behead them :-). Of course, in the Duskruin arena that isn't good enough because you will want their right arm and/or left arm chopped off as well and just go for damage.. but anyway.. since you seem more focused upon the 10 seconds of RT - why? We wear full plate. We have Redux. We can take hits. We are not wizards/sorcs/other squishy classes (no offense ya'll!). Sword/Board builds can block with a shield with ease if trained correctly while us two handed weapon users take an increased chance although we still can parry but nonetheless.. we can take hits and even partly why I suspect that Beacon of Courage came out for us to be able "taunt" although it doesn't work on all creatures/evil beings.
Look a little deeper at what Crusade does or rather what it IGNORES. That means your weapon with flares of any size and shape and esorcered etc or even weighted.. DOES NOT MATTER. It stacks as does with the group! And... it can flare when others flares go off! That is amazing just by itself and a true blessing. I'm happy with the spell because every paladin can use it regardless of what weapon they are bonded to.
Back on the focus of the spell suggestion you're inquiring of.. relevance is the damage in fact regardless of the kneeling effect. While some creatures are immune or resistance to the heat, I've seen 100+ up damage just from Divine Strike alone and even with Judgement on single targets.
The only thing I"m reading over again is 10 second RT for a character that already wears plate and has lots of weapons attached to his/her utility belt that already can add an open RT adding spell that gets improved with Lore. It's... illogical to have a need for this.
Honestly though, while I'm happy to see the paladin forums having more attention as of late I'd rather see more time/dedication towards more thoughts of the 50th spell circle.
__________________________
- Kobold in Disguise Falvicar, Blade of the Night
You swing a silver-edged black veil iron katana at Sevynne!
* Sevynne drops dead at your feet!
* Sevynne just bit the dust!
It's been a while since I've been a cleric, but I remember channeling a few spells although I do not recall if 302 was one of them or not off the top of my head. However; I believe at that point Lore was introduced and what helped see the actual difference of damage, but I loved the flavor of Good vs Evil vs Neutral (Let us not forget Gos nor Lady Z that the Lornon and Liablo nae claim). I wouldn't go as far as to say it's an ultimatum black and white because the cleric/paladin could still strike both living and undead although he/she get more damage attacking one vs the other. If I recall correctly too, one of the mechanics was that Smite had a chance to outright kill the undead and same with Bane although I don't know if that holds true to this day or not. Regardless, flavor is wonderful because it more defines your paladin's service to his/her deity to do their will because the paladin is the champion of him/her.
>I think you would be wrong to conflate Rot Flares with my Consecrate idea, and I'm unsure as why you would want to liken the two. I'm still not sure >you understand. I laid out very specifically what Divine Strike currently does and what Consecrate might do, then highlighted the overlaps. The >effects are objectively not similar aside from what was stated as the raw damage cycle and the crit damage cycle.
You're missing the point, Spock. 1604 is a 4th level circle and us paladin don't need another RT adding spell. In addition, 1601 (Trial) adds RT and can be cast open to hit many targets with Blessing Lore. However; I can agree that overall the spell as is is in fact useless to me other than freshening up mana bread, popping open the GY gate from time to time when not helping others receive a blessing up their weapon to let it last longer, or the super rare occurrences when I decide to use one of my toys stored in my locker (other eonake two handed weapons that I can put guiding flares upon). However; it's still a utility spell and not so much an offensive spell thus why I'm okay with with it is as a 4th slot spell.
When all said and done with the rest.. my conclusion is showing we have plenty of "gas in the tank" thus why your suggestion (respectfully) isn't really adding on and would ironically be rarely used or not so much needed unless in a specific situation where it's damage that matters because said target can't be critted. Just to clarify too (in Divine Strike's defense), when a creature is immune to kneeling that doesn't mean you can't switch your AIM and chop off one of their legs to make them lie down and then behead them :-). Of course, in the Duskruin arena that isn't good enough because you will want their right arm and/or left arm chopped off as well and just go for damage.. but anyway.. since you seem more focused upon the 10 seconds of RT - why? We wear full plate. We have Redux. We can take hits. We are not wizards/sorcs/other squishy classes (no offense ya'll!). Sword/Board builds can block with a shield with ease if trained correctly while us two handed weapon users take an increased chance although we still can parry but nonetheless.. we can take hits and even partly why I suspect that Beacon of Courage came out for us to be able "taunt" although it doesn't work on all creatures/evil beings.
Look a little deeper at what Crusade does or rather what it IGNORES. That means your weapon with flares of any size and shape and esorcered etc or even weighted.. DOES NOT MATTER. It stacks as does with the group! And... it can flare when others flares go off! That is amazing just by itself and a true blessing. I'm happy with the spell because every paladin can use it regardless of what weapon they are bonded to.
Back on the focus of the spell suggestion you're inquiring of.. relevance is the damage in fact regardless of the kneeling effect. While some creatures are immune or resistance to the heat, I've seen 100+ up damage just from Divine Strike alone and even with Judgement on single targets.
The only thing I"m reading over again is 10 second RT for a character that already wears plate and has lots of weapons attached to his/her utility belt that already can add an open RT adding spell that gets improved with Lore. It's... illogical to have a need for this.
Honestly though, while I'm happy to see the paladin forums having more attention as of late I'd rather see more time/dedication towards more thoughts of the 50th spell circle.
__________________________
- Kobold in Disguise Falvicar, Blade of the Night
You swing a silver-edged black veil iron katana at Sevynne!
* Sevynne drops dead at your feet!
* Sevynne just bit the dust!
GARGADON
Re: Consecrate Augmentation
06/10/2015 12:24 AM CDT
>>It's been a while since I've been a cleric, but I remember channeling a few spells although I do not recall if 302 was one of them or not off the top of my head. However; I believe at that point Lore was introduced and what helped see the actual difference of damage, but I loved the flavor of Good vs Evil vs Neutral (Let us not forget Gos nor Lady Z that the Lornon and Liablo nae claim). I wouldn't go as far as to say it's an ultimatum black and white because the cleric/paladin could still strike both living and undead although he/she get more damage attacking one vs the other. If I recall correctly too, one of the mechanics was that Smite had a chance to outright kill the undead and same with Bane although I don't know if that holds true to this day or not.
While I don't mind your aimless meandering style of the written word, you would best be served by simply reading what 302 does in its current form if you are using it as evidence for a counterpoint. https://gswiki.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/302
>>...but I loved the flavor of Good vs Evil...
Personally, I find this DEEPLY flawed.
>>Regardless, flavor is wonderful because it more defines your paladin's service to his/her deity to do their will because the paladin is the champion of him/her.
I absolutely agree. I really, really do. The means by which this is implemented is the problem. As I stated before, the Smite/Bane construct is just contrived nonsense. Ideally, what I would like to see, is for each deity to express itself in a unique, yet balance, way. However, given the coding constraints of the developers, and the difficulty of balancing so many Deities, the answer was to simply give each Deity a damage type and call it a day.
>>You're missing the point, Spock. 1604 is a 4th level circle and us paladin don't need another RT adding spell.
The immolation effect was only a small part of the spell, only achieved after 75 Religion Lore ranks. I only focused on it in subsequent ponsts because you did not understand the effect it had on creatures, therefore I had to explain it to you in detail. You can toss the entire idea of the immolation effect, that is totally fine. The immolation effect stated in the opening post, mentioned in passing, only had a single sentence reference the effect. However, I have repeatedly said that the main point of the spell was that the Consecrate plasma critical(s) would be the triggered by physical means, thus keeping the theme of a melee caster. Say it with ensign, P-L-A-S-M-A. C-R-I-T-I-C-A-L-S. Mechanically, it's a slick way to try and get the second more powerful Consecrate critical, for those that like that sort of thing.
>>In addition, 1601 (Trial) adds RT and can be cast open to hit many targets with Blessing Lore.
I trust you mean 1602.
>>However; I can agree that overall the spell as is is in fact useless to me other than freshening up mana bread, popping open the GY gate from time to time when not helping others receive a blessing up their weapon to let it last longer, or the super rare occurrences when I decide to use one of my toys stored in my locker (other eonake two handed weapons that I can put guiding flares upon). However; it's still a utility spell and not so much an offensive spell thus why I'm okay with with it is as a 4th slot spell.
The real problem here is that you are artificially confining yourself when it comes to the capability of any spell in any slot, such that you think a 4th level slot must fulfill 4th level spell slot balance for 4 mana. A spell slotted in the 4th slot can be scaled up by any combination of inputs (e.g., level, skills) and balanced appropriately. For example: we can add a 40 rank lore requirement that opens up an entirely new use of the spell while at the same time increasing the resource cost (i.e., mana, heatlh, spirit, stamina, etc) or introduce cooldowns to maintain the balance of the spell. We agree that the slot is largely dead after the Paladin learns 1625; this is the perfect opportunity open up a new use for the spell and thereby increase build diversity. At this point, I'm going to ask to you to break free from the confines of the slot == power mentality.
>>...since you seem more focused upon the 10 seconds of RT - why?
See above. You miinterpreted my correction of your misunderstanding as the main focus of the spell idea when it very clearly was not.
>>We wear full plate.
True.
>>We have Redux.
False.
We lost Redux in the transfer from GSIII to GSVI. We now have Damage Reduction, as stated by Warden at the time of transfer. Redux and Damage Reduction ARE NOT THE SAME. I understand what you mean, though.
>>We can take hits.
Actually ... I created a gsheet that demonstrates very clearly that we are worse than our bard and ranger counterparts when it comes to defensive prowess. In fact, we hit a nasty defensive trough when we get to the 20/40 MnS/Paladin breakpoint. I'd like to actually talk about this disparity later, but suffice it to say that the conventional wisdom of Paladins having greater defensive prowess than their bard and ranger counterparts as a result of wearing plate is wrong.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Ai7LSmeoGs2NrXOdQfV8fmE-xJgLqH30sGFN1EF7S7Y/edit?usp=sharing
It takes spells, skills, armor penalty (I haven't updated for AP reductions), polearm DS mods, Weapon ET, etc. It doesn't have lore effects or bards using 1035 (which makes the disparity even worse) in there yet because I got sidetracked rebuilding Ye Olde Tsoran GS Trainer.xls into a gsheet.
try not to break it
>>Back on the focus of the spell suggestion you're inquiring of.. relevance is the damage in fact regardless of the kneeling effect. While some creatures are immune or resistance to the heat, I've seen 100+ up damage just from Divine Strike alone and even with Judgement on single targets.
I just posted the raw damage formula for DStrike. News flash, it's not great.
Here's the linear regression: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/355799/1615_regression.png
>>Look a little deeper at what Crusade does or rather what it IGNORES. That means your weapon with flares of any size and shape and esorcered etc or even weighted.. DOES NOT MATTER. It stacks as does with the group! And... it can flare when others flares go off! That is amazing just by itself and a true blessing. I'm happy with the spell because every paladin can use it regardless of what weapon they are bonded to.
Bolded here and as you stated previously, I'm getting the sense that you do not like my idea because you would not be able to use it since you do not take advantage of Consecrate flares.
>>The only thing I"m reading over again is 10 second RT for a character that already wears plate and has lots of weapons attached to his/her utility belt that already can add an open RT adding spell that gets improved with Lore. It's... illogical to have a need for this.
See above. You misinterpreted my correction of your misunderstanding as the main focus of the spell idea when it very clearly was not. The immolation effect stated in the opening post, mentioned in passing, only had a single sentence reference the effect. How can you possibly interpret that as the main focus of the spell?
While I don't mind your aimless meandering style of the written word, you would best be served by simply reading what 302 does in its current form if you are using it as evidence for a counterpoint. https://gswiki.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/302
>>...but I loved the flavor of Good vs Evil...
Personally, I find this DEEPLY flawed.
>>Regardless, flavor is wonderful because it more defines your paladin's service to his/her deity to do their will because the paladin is the champion of him/her.
I absolutely agree. I really, really do. The means by which this is implemented is the problem. As I stated before, the Smite/Bane construct is just contrived nonsense. Ideally, what I would like to see, is for each deity to express itself in a unique, yet balance, way. However, given the coding constraints of the developers, and the difficulty of balancing so many Deities, the answer was to simply give each Deity a damage type and call it a day.
>>You're missing the point, Spock. 1604 is a 4th level circle and us paladin don't need another RT adding spell.
The immolation effect was only a small part of the spell, only achieved after 75 Religion Lore ranks. I only focused on it in subsequent ponsts because you did not understand the effect it had on creatures, therefore I had to explain it to you in detail. You can toss the entire idea of the immolation effect, that is totally fine. The immolation effect stated in the opening post, mentioned in passing, only had a single sentence reference the effect. However, I have repeatedly said that the main point of the spell was that the Consecrate plasma critical(s) would be the triggered by physical means, thus keeping the theme of a melee caster. Say it with ensign, P-L-A-S-M-A. C-R-I-T-I-C-A-L-S. Mechanically, it's a slick way to try and get the second more powerful Consecrate critical, for those that like that sort of thing.
>>In addition, 1601 (Trial) adds RT and can be cast open to hit many targets with Blessing Lore.
I trust you mean 1602.
>>However; I can agree that overall the spell as is is in fact useless to me other than freshening up mana bread, popping open the GY gate from time to time when not helping others receive a blessing up their weapon to let it last longer, or the super rare occurrences when I decide to use one of my toys stored in my locker (other eonake two handed weapons that I can put guiding flares upon). However; it's still a utility spell and not so much an offensive spell thus why I'm okay with with it is as a 4th slot spell.
The real problem here is that you are artificially confining yourself when it comes to the capability of any spell in any slot, such that you think a 4th level slot must fulfill 4th level spell slot balance for 4 mana. A spell slotted in the 4th slot can be scaled up by any combination of inputs (e.g., level, skills) and balanced appropriately. For example: we can add a 40 rank lore requirement that opens up an entirely new use of the spell while at the same time increasing the resource cost (i.e., mana, heatlh, spirit, stamina, etc) or introduce cooldowns to maintain the balance of the spell. We agree that the slot is largely dead after the Paladin learns 1625; this is the perfect opportunity open up a new use for the spell and thereby increase build diversity. At this point, I'm going to ask to you to break free from the confines of the slot == power mentality.
>>...since you seem more focused upon the 10 seconds of RT - why?
See above. You miinterpreted my correction of your misunderstanding as the main focus of the spell idea when it very clearly was not.
>>We wear full plate.
True.
>>We have Redux.
False.
We lost Redux in the transfer from GSIII to GSVI. We now have Damage Reduction, as stated by Warden at the time of transfer. Redux and Damage Reduction ARE NOT THE SAME. I understand what you mean, though.
>>We can take hits.
Actually ... I created a gsheet that demonstrates very clearly that we are worse than our bard and ranger counterparts when it comes to defensive prowess. In fact, we hit a nasty defensive trough when we get to the 20/40 MnS/Paladin breakpoint. I'd like to actually talk about this disparity later, but suffice it to say that the conventional wisdom of Paladins having greater defensive prowess than their bard and ranger counterparts as a result of wearing plate is wrong.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Ai7LSmeoGs2NrXOdQfV8fmE-xJgLqH30sGFN1EF7S7Y/edit?usp=sharing
It takes spells, skills, armor penalty (I haven't updated for AP reductions), polearm DS mods, Weapon ET, etc. It doesn't have lore effects or bards using 1035 (which makes the disparity even worse) in there yet because I got sidetracked rebuilding Ye Olde Tsoran GS Trainer.xls into a gsheet.
try not to break it
>>Back on the focus of the spell suggestion you're inquiring of.. relevance is the damage in fact regardless of the kneeling effect. While some creatures are immune or resistance to the heat, I've seen 100+ up damage just from Divine Strike alone and even with Judgement on single targets.
I just posted the raw damage formula for DStrike. News flash, it's not great.
Here's the linear regression: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/355799/1615_regression.png
| ;e ubound = 79; lbound = (ubound * 0.5).round; df = 0.5; base = 15; dstrike = StringProc.new("#{base} + (#{df} * rand(#{lbound}..#{ubound})).round"); data = Array.new; 1000.times { data.push(dstrike.call) }; echo data.min; echo data.max; |
| [exec1: 35] |
| [exec1: 55] |
| ;e ubound = 200; lbound = (ubound * 0.5).round; df = 0.5; base = 15; dstrike = StringProc.new("#{base} + (#{df} * rand(#{lbound}..#{ubound})).round"); data = Array.new; 1000.times { data.push(dstrike.call)}; echo data.min; echo data.max; |
| [exec1: 65] |
| [exec1: 115] |
>>Look a little deeper at what Crusade does or rather what it IGNORES. That means your weapon with flares of any size and shape and esorcered etc or even weighted.. DOES NOT MATTER. It stacks as does with the group! And... it can flare when others flares go off! That is amazing just by itself and a true blessing. I'm happy with the spell because every paladin can use it regardless of what weapon they are bonded to.
Bolded here and as you stated previously, I'm getting the sense that you do not like my idea because you would not be able to use it since you do not take advantage of Consecrate flares.
>>The only thing I"m reading over again is 10 second RT for a character that already wears plate and has lots of weapons attached to his/her utility belt that already can add an open RT adding spell that gets improved with Lore. It's... illogical to have a need for this.
See above. You misinterpreted my correction of your misunderstanding as the main focus of the spell idea when it very clearly was not. The immolation effect stated in the opening post, mentioned in passing, only had a single sentence reference the effect. How can you possibly interpret that as the main focus of the spell?
FALAN
Re: Consecrate Augmentation
06/10/2015 10:28 AM CDT
While 302's current form is arguably more relevant, back in those cleric days of mine it did matter thus the relevance.
Say it again... not all us paladins use p l a s m a. For those that do choose to use the guiding flares, you should know that each time you miss you gain more of a chance for it flare and further there are times when it flares twice. From my own view, keeping up with more points (not ponsts) will just make me lose interest as it's one more things to keep an eye out on for a hunting/invasion rotation as to what I'm going to do. However; I can agree that with religion lore that maybe the guiding flares should do more c r i t i c a l damage.
>>We have Redux.
False.
>We lost Redux in the transfer from GSIII to GSVI. We now have Damage Reduction, as stated by Warden at the time of transfer. Redux and Damage >Reduction ARE NOT THE SAME. I understand what you mean, though.
>It takes spells, skills, armor penalty (I haven't updated for AP reductions), polearm DS mods, Weapon ET, etc. It doesn't have lore effects or bards >using 1035 (which makes the disparity even worse) in there yet because I got sidetracked rebuilding Ye Olde Tsoran GS Trainer.xls into a gsheet.
No we didn't. I, for one, still have Redux (also known as Damage Reduction per gs wiki). Check in at the inn if you don't have it. We will never have a great redux as warriors do, but we do have the means to have it. https://gswiki.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Redux If you don't have it, then it's likely because you know too many spell circles. Now if the document is incorrect then somebody should update it but nonetheless - we still take less damage with training and even less when we decided to wear damage padded full plate (for example).
>Actually ... I created a gsheet that demonstrates very clearly that we are worse than our bard and ranger counterparts when it comes to defensive >prowess. In fact, we hit a nasty defensive trough when we get to the 20/40 MnS/Paladin breakpoint. I'd like to actually talk about this disparity >later, but suffice it to say that the conventional wisdom of Paladins having greater defensive prowess than their bard and ranger counterparts as a >result of wearing plate is wrong.
To be fair (and I don't disagree since I would like to think that a paladin is just as good as a ranger/bard in those armors), paladins that go sword/board could use 1609 (Divine Shield) that increases blocking chance. Ultimately, it's short lived and by the time a paladin is at 35 trainings, we gain DI (1635), and likely wearing hauberk at the very least.
>I just posted the raw damage formula for DStrike. News flash, it's not great.
The higher the roll, the higher the damage and the more lore, the better the chance of a kneel while keeping in mind that some things are immune to kneeling and heat. Would I rely on it's raw damage against something? Absolutely not because it would cost far too much mana. On an interesting note, for fun I chose to do this over and again on the black oily roots in Lich Landing because any weapon I chose to wield simply would not do much damage to them - regardless of the roll. So, I ended up just burning up all my mana with divine strike and interesting enough I did down it since it was (ironically) doing more damage than any weapon I tried.
I'm not against it just because I don't use the plasma flares. I'm against it simply because there is no need for it. You're wanting more crit / lots of damage from a single spell (such as wither), and RT added to it. It's the balance I'm looking at.
I'm not going debate any more though on this, but I'm curious on your ideas for a 50th slot on the paladin circle (or anybody's for that matter). Can we shift gears please?
__________________________
- Kobold in Disguise Falvicar, Blade of the Night
You swing a silver-edged black veil iron katana at Sevynne!
* Sevynne drops dead at your feet!
* Sevynne just bit the dust!
Say it again... not all us paladins use p l a s m a. For those that do choose to use the guiding flares, you should know that each time you miss you gain more of a chance for it flare and further there are times when it flares twice. From my own view, keeping up with more points (not ponsts) will just make me lose interest as it's one more things to keep an eye out on for a hunting/invasion rotation as to what I'm going to do. However; I can agree that with religion lore that maybe the guiding flares should do more c r i t i c a l damage.
>>We have Redux.
False.
>We lost Redux in the transfer from GSIII to GSVI. We now have Damage Reduction, as stated by Warden at the time of transfer. Redux and Damage >Reduction ARE NOT THE SAME. I understand what you mean, though.
>It takes spells, skills, armor penalty (I haven't updated for AP reductions), polearm DS mods, Weapon ET, etc. It doesn't have lore effects or bards >using 1035 (which makes the disparity even worse) in there yet because I got sidetracked rebuilding Ye Olde Tsoran GS Trainer.xls into a gsheet.
No we didn't. I, for one, still have Redux (also known as Damage Reduction per gs wiki). Check in at the inn if you don't have it. We will never have a great redux as warriors do, but we do have the means to have it. https://gswiki.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Redux If you don't have it, then it's likely because you know too many spell circles. Now if the document is incorrect then somebody should update it but nonetheless - we still take less damage with training and even less when we decided to wear damage padded full plate (for example).
>Actually ... I created a gsheet that demonstrates very clearly that we are worse than our bard and ranger counterparts when it comes to defensive >prowess. In fact, we hit a nasty defensive trough when we get to the 20/40 MnS/Paladin breakpoint. I'd like to actually talk about this disparity >later, but suffice it to say that the conventional wisdom of Paladins having greater defensive prowess than their bard and ranger counterparts as a >result of wearing plate is wrong.
To be fair (and I don't disagree since I would like to think that a paladin is just as good as a ranger/bard in those armors), paladins that go sword/board could use 1609 (Divine Shield) that increases blocking chance. Ultimately, it's short lived and by the time a paladin is at 35 trainings, we gain DI (1635), and likely wearing hauberk at the very least.
>I just posted the raw damage formula for DStrike. News flash, it's not great.
The higher the roll, the higher the damage and the more lore, the better the chance of a kneel while keeping in mind that some things are immune to kneeling and heat. Would I rely on it's raw damage against something? Absolutely not because it would cost far too much mana. On an interesting note, for fun I chose to do this over and again on the black oily roots in Lich Landing because any weapon I chose to wield simply would not do much damage to them - regardless of the roll. So, I ended up just burning up all my mana with divine strike and interesting enough I did down it since it was (ironically) doing more damage than any weapon I tried.
I'm not against it just because I don't use the plasma flares. I'm against it simply because there is no need for it. You're wanting more crit / lots of damage from a single spell (such as wither), and RT added to it. It's the balance I'm looking at.
I'm not going debate any more though on this, but I'm curious on your ideas for a 50th slot on the paladin circle (or anybody's for that matter). Can we shift gears please?
__________________________
- Kobold in Disguise Falvicar, Blade of the Night
You swing a silver-edged black veil iron katana at Sevynne!
* Sevynne drops dead at your feet!
* Sevynne just bit the dust!
GARGADON
Re: Consecrate Augmentation
06/10/2015 01:40 PM CDT
>>While 302's current form is arguably more relevant, back in those cleric days of mine it did matter thus the relevance.
It isn't arguable more relevant. The current form is the only thing that is relevant when comparing smite/bane mechanics.
>>Say it again... not all us paladins use p l a s m a.
If your only complaint about the idea is that you don't use Consecrate flares, then you haven't made a compelling argument, merely a selfish one which it totally fine. I get that.
If you don't like the Immolation Effect, then, as I've said for the third time now, I'm fine with removing it. Consider it entirely withdrawn.
>>For those that do choose to use the guiding flares, you should know that each time you miss you gain more of a chance for it flare and further there are times when it flares twice. From my own view, keeping up with more points (not ponsts) will just make me lose interest as it's one more things to keep an eye out on for a hunting/invasion rotation as to what I'm going to do. However; I can agree that with religion lore that maybe the guiding flares should do more c r i t i c a l damage.
Religion Lore can't simply increase critical damage; that would double-dip with Summoning Lore.
>>No we didn't. I, for one, still have Redux (also known as Damage Reduction per gs wiki). Check in at the inn if you don't have it. We will never have a great redux as warriors do, but we do have the means to have it. https://gswiki.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Redux
That level 66 character in the link? Yeah, that is my then Warrior now Paladin. Damage Reduction is colloquially known as Redux, but technically they are not the same. See below.
>>If you don't have it, then it's likely because you know too many spell circles. Now if the document is incorrect then somebody should update it but nonetheless - we still take less damage with training and even less when we decided to wear damage padded full plate (for example).
REDUX as defined by GSIII was the actual reduction of the Damage Factor of the weapon attacking you, thereby reducing the raw damage taken and the resultant crit damage. Hence the name, REDUX or Reduction of Damage Factor.
DAMAGE REDUCTION as defined by GSIV, is the reduction of the overall raw damage + critical damage. The difference is very clearly demonstrated with the following:
This is a rank 1 slash critical (https://gswiki.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Slash) for 3 critical damage. If you remove the 3 crit damage, the remaining raw damage is 10. The crit divisor is 11 for Plate. I would not have received this rank 1 critical if we still operated under GSIII Redux.
Does this make sense? Yes or No?
People have been using Redux as a synonym for Damage Reduction, but technically (which is the best kind of right), it is not accurate.
>>To be fair (and I don't disagree since I would like to think that a paladin is just as good as a ranger/bard in those armors), paladins that go sword/board could use 1609 (Divine Shield) that increases blocking chance. Ultimately, it's short lived and by the time a paladin is at 35 trainings, we gain DI (1635), and likely wearing hauberk at the very least.
Once a Ranger has 640, they have a better block rate unless the paladin has 52 or more blessing ranks with Divine Shield Active.
Ranger Block Chance:
2x Shield Use == 10%
640 == 20%
1 - ((1 - 0.10) * (1 - 0.20)) == 1 - (0.90 * 0.80) == 1 - 0.72 == 0.28 == 28%
Paladin Block Chance:
2x Shield Use == 10%
Divine Shield Base == 10%
52 Blessing Lore == 8%
0.10 + 0.10 + 0.08 == 0.28 == 28%
>>The higher the roll, the higher the damage and the more lore, the better the chance of a kneel while keeping in mind that some things are immune to kneeling and heat. Would I rely on it's raw damage against something?
That's a question only you can answer. At least now you can make a more informed decision with the detailed analysis I provided.
>>I'm not against it just because I don't use the plasma flares. I'm against it simply because there is no need for it. You're wanting more crit / lots of damage from a single spell (such as wither), ...
It isn't lots of damage or crit. It's simply increasing the chance of the initial Consecrate flare to 100%. Literally, remove everything else about the spell. Just focus on that.
>>and RT added to it.
OH. MY. GOD. Stop talking about the RT. I said remove it already 4 times now.
It isn't arguable more relevant. The current form is the only thing that is relevant when comparing smite/bane mechanics.
>>Say it again... not all us paladins use p l a s m a.
If your only complaint about the idea is that you don't use Consecrate flares, then you haven't made a compelling argument, merely a selfish one which it totally fine. I get that.
If you don't like the Immolation Effect, then, as I've said for the third time now, I'm fine with removing it. Consider it entirely withdrawn.
>>For those that do choose to use the guiding flares, you should know that each time you miss you gain more of a chance for it flare and further there are times when it flares twice. From my own view, keeping up with more points (not ponsts) will just make me lose interest as it's one more things to keep an eye out on for a hunting/invasion rotation as to what I'm going to do. However; I can agree that with religion lore that maybe the guiding flares should do more c r i t i c a l damage.
Religion Lore can't simply increase critical damage; that would double-dip with Summoning Lore.
>>No we didn't. I, for one, still have Redux (also known as Damage Reduction per gs wiki). Check in at the inn if you don't have it. We will never have a great redux as warriors do, but we do have the means to have it. https://gswiki.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Redux
That level 66 character in the link? Yeah, that is my then Warrior now Paladin. Damage Reduction is colloquially known as Redux, but technically they are not the same. See below.
>>If you don't have it, then it's likely because you know too many spell circles. Now if the document is incorrect then somebody should update it but nonetheless - we still take less damage with training and even less when we decided to wear damage padded full plate (for example).
REDUX as defined by GSIII was the actual reduction of the Damage Factor of the weapon attacking you, thereby reducing the raw damage taken and the resultant crit damage. Hence the name, REDUX or Reduction of Damage Factor.
DAMAGE REDUCTION as defined by GSIV, is the reduction of the overall raw damage + critical damage. The difference is very clearly demonstrated with the following:
| A lesser minotaur swings a curved silvery white greataxe at you! |
| AS: +374 vs DS: +312 with AvD: +32 + d100 roll: +66 = +160 |
| ... and hits for 13 points of damage! |
| Quick slash to your upper left arm! |
| Just a nick. |
This is a rank 1 slash critical (https://gswiki.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Slash) for 3 critical damage. If you remove the 3 crit damage, the remaining raw damage is 10. The crit divisor is 11 for Plate. I would not have received this rank 1 critical if we still operated under GSIII Redux.
Does this make sense? Yes or No?
People have been using Redux as a synonym for Damage Reduction, but technically (which is the best kind of right), it is not accurate.
>>To be fair (and I don't disagree since I would like to think that a paladin is just as good as a ranger/bard in those armors), paladins that go sword/board could use 1609 (Divine Shield) that increases blocking chance. Ultimately, it's short lived and by the time a paladin is at 35 trainings, we gain DI (1635), and likely wearing hauberk at the very least.
Once a Ranger has 640, they have a better block rate unless the paladin has 52 or more blessing ranks with Divine Shield Active.
Ranger Block Chance:
2x Shield Use == 10%
640 == 20%
1 - ((1 - 0.10) * (1 - 0.20)) == 1 - (0.90 * 0.80) == 1 - 0.72 == 0.28 == 28%
Paladin Block Chance:
2x Shield Use == 10%
Divine Shield Base == 10%
52 Blessing Lore == 8%
0.10 + 0.10 + 0.08 == 0.28 == 28%
>>The higher the roll, the higher the damage and the more lore, the better the chance of a kneel while keeping in mind that some things are immune to kneeling and heat. Would I rely on it's raw damage against something?
That's a question only you can answer. At least now you can make a more informed decision with the detailed analysis I provided.
>>I'm not against it just because I don't use the plasma flares. I'm against it simply because there is no need for it. You're wanting more crit / lots of damage from a single spell (such as wither), ...
It isn't lots of damage or crit. It's simply increasing the chance of the initial Consecrate flare to 100%. Literally, remove everything else about the spell. Just focus on that.
>>and RT added to it.
OH. MY. GOD. Stop talking about the RT. I said remove it already 4 times now.
