I just realized that I could really use a maneuver type spell. I'm a caster, but if something is turtled and wearing plate and I can't ward it, then I wanna be able to do a maneuverish spell like Boil Earth, Implosion, Spike Thorn....So!

320 Condemn

A spray of (deity specific*) shoot forth from (cleric's) hands at the (whatever)!

So they gotta dodge the stuff and if not, they get hit by whatever

*Use the same tables as you do for divine fury...

e.g.

Sheru (Crushing) - Tiny metal spheres
Charl (Lightning) - Orbs of lightning
Tonis (Vacuum) - Little black holes! (lol)

I like that idea too, but I'd still like to have the fists have deity specific damage and messaging. Only problem I can see with that is the people that will be like "I just fisted that guy to death". Just sounds dirty.

>Point I'm getting at is that Clerics need a maneuver spell. All pures should have the 3 kinds of spells in their arsenal. CS Bolt and Maneuver.
IOCUS


Why?





-farmer

*

That's just what we want, criss-crossing furrows all over the town streets from someone wandering through with their animated plow super buddy.

-Strath

Why?


-farmer

Because the elemental pures have three types of spells to pick from. Why must Empaths and Clerics be devoid of that choice? If you cannot ward something due to the armor it's wearing and it's turtled, what can a cleric really do? It'd be nice to at least have the option to try something that's based on the opponent's dodging ability and level difference than it's magical defense.

>320 Condemn

>A spray of (deity specific*) shoot forth from (cleric's) hands at the (whatever)!

Arachne|webbing|randomtarget?

Spider cleric, spider cleric, does whatever a spider cleric does..

(In all seriousness, it's an interesting idea, but isn't it just like one of the paladin spells?)

--

Raelee quietly admits, "That is a difficult concept."

I suppose you're right about the "go hunt something else" thing, but I still think Clerics should have access to an instantaneous maneuver spell.

Maybe we could just point our finger like a pistol and point it at the baddie's feet Yelling "Dance, you turtle, Dance! - You anti-magic bastid!" as we mimic (P-choo! p-choo! p-choo!) firing the "pistol". Little clouds of dust would conceal our movement to the next room which contains a Hittable creature.

While it sounds great to me, a clericy sort, I can see how it might raise some eyebrows. It would be one thing if we were ineffective hunters, but we aren't. Properly self cast I would think you could live through a one on one stun (assuming you arent way overhunting or overencumbered).

I don't seem to get EITHER of your two arguments.


--Why would you want to hunt something you cannot ward, if you are a pure caster? Alternatively, use an e-wave amulet, feint it, disarm it, then bop it over the head with a large stick.--

So, we should use a magic item that uses a maneuver spell that the other pures already possess? LOL nice...

---While it sounds great to me, a clericy sort, I can see how it might raise some eyebrows. It would be one thing if we were ineffective hunters, but we aren't. Properly self cast I would think you could live through a one on one stun (assuming you arent way overhunting or overencumbered).---

And you seem to be implying that Wizards and Sorcerers and Rangers would be ineffective hunters without 917/720/617? Are you for real?

Look guys, I'm not saying I can't hunt at all because I don't any maneuver spells, I'm saying it'd be nice to have the option to cast with my own mana instead of relying on magic items that use the same spell type I'm asking for from other classes. If that were the case, why not take away all of our offensive spells all together since we can just "use a magic item" to solve our problems.
We're trying to fill a spell slot that is Empty. This spell would be useful. If anyone else has something negative to say about it, then give a suggestion that is better. Otherwise you're being counter-productive :p

>We're trying to fill a spell slot that is Empty. This spell would be useful. If anyone else has something negative to say about it, then give a suggestion that is better. Otherwise you're being counter-productive :p
IOCUS

I'm not sure you understand what is counter-productive and isn't.

Disagreeing with an idea isn't. Replying to your suggestion with, 'No. ur dumb' would be counter-productive.



-farmer

*

That's just what we want, criss-crossing furrows all over the town streets from someone wandering through with their animated plow super buddy.

-Strath

If you can't ward a creature, you have several options:

1.) Use a bolt attack.
2.) Dispel it with Spirit Dispel (119) or Spiritual Abolition (230).
3.) Use a maneuver attack: brimstone (325 T2) or Call Lightning (125).

GameMaster Estild
Cleric/Empath Team

Call lightning is rather expensive to cast compared to say Energy Maelstrom or Sandstorm. And sacrificing a gem regularly on a hunt is expensive in another way. I still vote for a maneuver spell in the 320 slot..

Summoning lore decreases the speed of each round the Lightning Cloud takes to form, as well as allows the spell to be cast indoors. The only thing I would like to see changed to make 125 a worthy offensive maneuver attack would be to allow a non-targetted version of the spell to work. If you don't cast 125 at a target, it will simply start zapping the caster, which is dumb.

"And you seem to be implying that Wizards and Sorcerers and Rangers would be ineffective hunters without 917/720/617? Are you for real?"

I wasn't implying this at all. What I was implying, I suppose, is well yes, sure it'd be fun to have a different kind of spell for a cleric- but each class has it's hunting limitations of sorts and I accept there will be some things I may not be able to kill easily if at all. The creatures at my level I am able to kill as long as they aren't anti-magic or too heavily defended against my warding casts.

Perhaps you read too much into my opinion. Asking if I'm for real is a bit confrontational and dismissive so I'll not go down that road except to say, "Yes."

I didn't personally attack you, please respond in kind in the future.

As to what to put into 320? I haven't considered it much to be honest, but it shouldn't negate my opinions on suggestions for what does go in there.

Unfocused version of 125 could be kinda like casting it at a mithril box, except without it hitting the caster of course. I remember way back in the day when I used to play roulette of sorts by casting it at an acantha leaf with some of my friends to see who would get zapped. Good times on the boulder xD

I think coming up with your own clerical spell would be better than basically copying other professional lists.

You should also keep in mind it's a 20th level spell, not a higher slot.


-farmer

*

That's just what we want, criss-crossing furrows all over the town streets from someone wandering through with their animated plow super buddy.

-Strath

The issue I see with option 2 is our teleportation spells involve 225 (fogging to) and 130 (fogging you with or without a group away). Wizard gates are also up there I think at level 30? as well as a sorcerer's books (Is that around level 30 also?). *not positive though, I haven't played deeply into either of those classes*.

The Bard seems to be the only one who can travel that early, and I don't know if they can take anyone with 'em yet or not.. again, not much experience with the class in depth.

I suppose for a level 20 spell, given the cleric's usefullness as a group spell helper, I'd not mind seeing perhaps a version of 303 (Prayer of Protection) extendable to the cleric's group with effectiveness or duration built into Blessings lore.

At level 20 a Cleric (at least I was) still hunts best with a partner and this beginner group Buff makes sense to me. I will say though, I'm no developer nor designer. Feel free to fill it with holes! :)

The #2 option I was thinking of would be more like a more powerful version of the paladin's 20th level spell. Aid the Fallen.

It would instead of like they can do, teleport a fallen character back to a predetermined position... Would teleport the corpse to wherever the cleric is. I do not believe it should work on living characters though.

>Not only do you want to gank a paladin spell... you want to make your version more powerful?

As pures rather than the least magical semi, clerical magic should be more powerful than paladin magic in general. The only time paladin magic should be more powerful is when it relates to paladin specialities, but assisting dead bodies is a cleric speciality. Cleric magic should be much more powerful than paladin magic here.

Moving a corpse to a set location can be done by a cleric using a 325 (nexus) gem. This is already a cleric ability. (and while it takes a level 25 cleric with a decent amount of lore to make them, any cleric can use them) The suggestion is that by casting 320, the cleric can call the body to them, rather than go and get it and bring it back with them.

However it is basically undesirable that a cleric can summon a body for at least a couple of reasons.

(i) the body may not want to be summoned by that cleric and negotiating which cleric can carry off the body can't be done effectively when the competing clerics are in their separate shrines rather than all in the same place with the body. Lorminstran cleric in temple of Lorminstra goes I claim this corpse for Lorminstra. 320. corpse appears at Lorminstran shrine. Luukosian cleric counters I claim this corpse for Luukos. 320. corpse pulled into temple of Luukos. Lormintra 320. Luukos 320 ...

(ii) it makes it too easy for a low level cleric to rescue from high level hunting grounds. The requirement to be with the body means the cleric needs to be able to survive, at least briefly, in the environment the corpse is in. In practice, this ability would have to be so badly restricted in where corpses could be pulled from, to make it worthless. The game can't have level 20 pocket raisers hiding somewhere under a bridge in town pull your corpse out of Nelemar. Someone has to brave the executioners, at least briefly.

If a cleric can walk to or go2 the body, they don't need to summon it, and if you can't, you shouldn't be able to summon it.

>I say us Paladins just give you our body transport spell, our useless raise, (and I suppose our Divine Vengeance, based on the power of your Divine Fury, Paladins aren't devout enough to summon more than a laugh in the face, and only sometimes) since these are cleric specialties. In exchange we'll take Benediction, and your access to Bravery and Heroism. Since Paladins don't have a specialty, other than swinging a weapon.

Paladins can achieve a far higher weapon AS than a cleric. You don't need them.

Clerics do need spells to boost bolt AS and that is these spells prime purpose for the cleric. Clerics do need them for bolt AS. Their weapon boosting effect is mainly for other classes and only mutants, semis and squares would suffer if the spells were made bolt only. Paladins benefit from this. You want the benefit of 307? You can already get it. Just hunt with a cleric in your group. The same goes for 211 and 215 although items like pure potions are the more usual source since it takes a highly trained cleric or empath with a lot of spare mana to make them into group spells.

Paladins really don't want spells to boost their own bolt AS and other classes weapon AS, which is what these spells are for.

>Yeah, I'm going to disagree that those spells's prime purpose is for bolts and other professions. It may have evolved to help, but that wasn't it's prime purpose.

It wasn't its prime purpose originally, but it is now. Clerics used to be expected to swing weapons. Now a weapon swinging cleric is a mutant path. Only mutants need to self cast 211 and 215 for weapon AS. Pures still need it for bolt AS. Pure clerics that don't bolt will not bother with 211 and 215 unless they have mana that is going spare. A bolting cleric aims to learn 215 at level 15. A pure CS cleric doesn't care about 215 and just picks it up along the way when they want to get to 219. 211/215 is the reason early spell training is radically different depending on whether or not a cleric bolts.

Separating the bolt and weapon AS boosts in 211 and 215 would make sense. Turning them into bolt AS only, and giving paladins the ability to group cast an existing AS booster of theirs for weapon AS only would work (though the weapon using cleric and empath mutants would hate it and I am not sure that paladins would like it much). Maybe the old version would stay in pure potions which would mean the mutants could hang on by becoming pure potion junkies.

As for 307. The weapon boost is group and caps at 30 ranks, and the bolt AS part of it is self cast and is only capped by level. It boosts others weapon (and bolt) AS by a small amount and the high level clerics bolt AS by a large amount. Its pretty expensive in mana compared to other spells giving similar sorts of boosts too. 307 is the cleric circle bolt AS booster. Do Paladins really want a bolt AS booster that costs over a pulse worth of mana to cast?

Rather than a group spell, what Paladins should try for is one of the focus spells that are coming in with monks. The game already has an over-abundance of group spells, but a Paladin version of something of which only one can be active should not create a problem.

>Clerics can already transport bodies in more ways than a Paladin. An improved version of our spell isn't needed. Yet that didn't make your list..

Actually, I said clerics don't need and shouldn't have a corpse summoning spell.

The Paladin version could use improvement too. I don't see why it shouldn't include LK rather require separate LK. Its a bit silly when a paladin drags a cleric out to a body to LK it, then punts the body into town, but it happens.

Vengeance could use development too, but it needs an extra mechanic in my view. I suggest you steal the holy symbol booster idea that clerics are about to get, and have a method to power up your symbol for added Vengeance. Either a simple addition for Vengeance only, or part of a larger development giving multiple uses for symbol power ups.