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GemStone IV · Developer's Corner - Clerics

RATHBONER

Remove 319 from items 08/09/2017 06:46 AM CDT

Now that other pures get to cast cleric spells from items almost as well as clerics with self knowledge get to cast them (e.g. a wizards maximum cleric spell CS just went up by 143), 319 should be given the same treatment as the likes of 540 in regards to availability. Either non-wizards should get easy access to a useful version of 540 in an item, or 319 shouldn't be easily available to non-clerics.

Some of the other spirit CS spells probably need a review too. The balance considerations in the more recent revisions of 118,214 and 301 are substantially changed by the generic CS available for them in item form. (there may well be others too, but those plus 319 are the spells that spring to my mind as having their balance substantially changed from the previously stated design, with 301 being the next most seriously unbalanced after 319)

VEYTHORNE

Email Author

Re: Remove 319 from items 08/09/2017 06:59 AM CDT

I don't understand requests like these. What do you gain by taking away something from someone else?

This is like asking for all the wizard spells to go self cast only because you gain too much benefit from them.

ARCHSENEX

Email Author

Re: Remove 319 from items 08/09/2017 07:25 AM CDT

Also, the miu changes don't apply to 319. But I agree, I don't get what's so horrible about people being able to cast spells at 80 or 90 percent power as opposed to only 40% before.

RATHBONER

Email Author

Re: Remove 319 from items 08/09/2017 07:35 AM CDT

Would you like it if other classes were given easy and effective access to your profession defining skills? A standard wizard build gets a better 319 than a standard cleric build? The best cleric build is better than the best wizard can achieve, but there's overlap without going to mutants. I do not like it all that a like level wizards are better at using the 301 gem I bless than I am at self casting it.

The best way for me to cast 301 is now to bless a gem and hand it to a like level wizard to wave for me. What sort of treatment is that for a profession?

ARCHSENEX

Email Author

Re: Remove 319 from items 08/09/2017 07:38 AM CDT

Uh... what?

Show the numbers behind these claims.

319 doesn't gain miu benefits either.

GS4-ESTILD

Email Author

Re: Remove 319 from items 08/09/2017 09:45 AM CDT

RATHBONER

As already noted, it does not affect 319. And this update does not allow non-native caster to cast a spell better than a native caster. A cleric who is 2x in spells will always cast a clerical spell with a higher CS than a wizard who 2x in MIU. 2x MIU also isn't a standard build for non-capped wizards, and if we are looking at capped characters, clerics will be more than 2x in spells and thus the gap increases significantly. I can understand the concern, because it is exactly something we wanted to be careful with to avoid, but please test and run the numbers before panicking.

GameMaster Estild

RATHBONER

Email Author

Re: Remove 319 from items 08/09/2017 10:01 AM CDT

>319 doesn't gain miu benefits either.

The announcement says spells from items get a lot of extra CS, it doesn't give any exclusions. 319s effectiveness is based on CS.

>Show the numbers behind these claims.

1x spell training gives a cleric a maximum average bonus to CS of 0.57 per rank across the spirit circles. 1x MIU gives a non-cleric 0.76. 2x is 1.13 for self cast, 1.26 for MIU.

Self cast can come out ahead on one of the circles, but only at the cost of being even further behind on the others.

KRAKII

Email Author

Re: Remove 319 from items 08/09/2017 10:13 AM CDT

"The announcement says spells from items get a lot of extra CS, it doesn't give any exclusions." -- Rathboner

It is true that ALL spells' CS cast this way will benefit from MIU/AS skills if cast from an item. It is still unlikely to bring the trinket-user up to parity with a native-caster.

.

The extra special sauce bonus is for spells... that are elemental and sorcerous in nature, it says, you benefit if you have Mystic Focus/1711 running ("AND do not have Elemental Targeting/425 running", it was clarified later).

GemStone IV · Developer's Corner - Clerics