Lochiven (at level 67), your current skill bonuses and ranks (including all modifiers) are:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 160 60
Shield Use.........................| 169 69
Combat Maneuvers...................| 169 69
Brawling...........................| 238 138
Multi Opponent Combat..............| 120 30
Physical Fitness...................| 169 69
Arcane Symbols.....................| 102 24
Magic Item Use.....................| 169 69
Harness Power......................| 167 67
Mental Mana Control................| 120 30
Elemental Lore - Air...............| 169 69
Mental Lore - Manipulation.........| 169 69
Perception.........................| 120 30
Climbing...........................| 120 30
Swimming...........................| 120 30
Spell Lists
Minor Elemental....................| 30
Spell Lists
Bard...............................| 40
I'll just hunt up to 73 and get the 75 air ranks, instead of using an enhancive.
Things have been going pretty well hunting wise, though I certainly placed my stats poorly way back when.
Lochiven
THORNBROOK
KILTHAL
Re: What I went with
05/06/2011 01:55 AM CDT
Good to see you back old friend. Why so much MIU? 69 ranks seems excessive, and could easily cover you getting to 75 ranks (and beyond) of EL: Air.
Also, I have to say I cringe at the lack of Dodge. I know you've gone this route before, but especially if you end up using a Sonic Shield (which due to Air Lore will be treated as a much smaller shield), Dodge is ever a good thing to have.
-Kilthal
"He came like the wind, like the wind touched everything, and like the wind was gone."
"For all that this may cause Hell to freeze over, I agree with Kilthal." -Siwas
Also, I have to say I cringe at the lack of Dodge. I know you've gone this route before, but especially if you end up using a Sonic Shield (which due to Air Lore will be treated as a much smaller shield), Dodge is ever a good thing to have.
-Kilthal
"He came like the wind, like the wind touched everything, and like the wind was gone."
"For all that this may cause Hell to freeze over, I agree with Kilthal." -Siwas
THORNBROOK
Re: What I went with
05/06/2011 03:43 PM CDT
Ello Gleeman,
The MIU is mostly for spellburst. As we can only single in lores...well I couldn't reach that 75 air ranks quite yet no matter the plan. Dodge will come in the upcoming trainings I think, my 69 ranks of CM is exactly what I needed to get 5 ranks of feint and 4 ranks of sweep both of which I utilize in my hunts quite a bit. That being 'capped' for my purposes, leaves me a few extras. But we'll see, about to train my first level after using up my fixskills, hope I can afford as much as I'm imagining.
On a side note, anyone have a link to info about sonic alters along with perhaps some examples. Shortly before my first hiatus sonic alterations were just beginning and I remember oh 20 of you or so posting what you had done. The talent and the scope of what was allowed in the alterations was amazing. I'd like to start preparing mine for..whatever month I should get so lucky.
Lochi
The MIU is mostly for spellburst. As we can only single in lores...well I couldn't reach that 75 air ranks quite yet no matter the plan. Dodge will come in the upcoming trainings I think, my 69 ranks of CM is exactly what I needed to get 5 ranks of feint and 4 ranks of sweep both of which I utilize in my hunts quite a bit. That being 'capped' for my purposes, leaves me a few extras. But we'll see, about to train my first level after using up my fixskills, hope I can afford as much as I'm imagining.
On a side note, anyone have a link to info about sonic alters along with perhaps some examples. Shortly before my first hiatus sonic alterations were just beginning and I remember oh 20 of you or so posting what you had done. The talent and the scope of what was allowed in the alterations was amazing. I'd like to start preparing mine for..whatever month I should get so lucky.
Lochi
TELEMON
Re: What I went with
05/06/2011 03:59 PM CDT
Copied from an email from Vanah:
The customizations can have either a short description with a show, or a long description. Please refer to ALTER 2 and ALTER 3 in the game for further details on these terms.
For sonic shields, weapons, and armors, the base description must demonstrate that the item is created from a mass of air. Words such as 'sonic' or 'airy,' would be appropriate to describe the insubstantial nature of the items.
For Singing Swords, the base description must demonstrate that the item is moving independently of any physical influence. Words such as 'animated' or 'floating' would be appropriate to describe this behavior.
The nouns for the items must be consistent with acceptable nouns for the type of item that is being customized. Please see the Weapon Guide [http://www.play.net/gs4/info/armory/weapons.asp] for eligible nouns for Sonic Weapons and Singing Swords, and the Armor Guide [http://www.play.net/gs4/info/armory/armor.asp] for eligible nouns for Sonic Shields and Sonic Armors.
Before receiving this sort of alteration, please have the following information prepared for the merchant:
* The spell to be customized (Sonic Weapon Song).
* The item base to be customized (a short sword).
* The '15/15/15' description of the item (a wavering/grey sonic/gladius).
* The 'long' or 'show' description desired, if any (a wavering silvery grey sonic gladius shrouded in mist).
Having this information ready beforehand will make the process as painless as possible. As is the case with any sort of alteration, it is always wise to have backup concepts prepared in case an issue arises with the original idea.
After the merchant has finished the process, the custom sonic can be called by PREParing the appropriate spell, and activating it via SING CUSTOM.
The customizations can have either a short description with a show, or a long description. Please refer to ALTER 2 and ALTER 3 in the game for further details on these terms.
For sonic shields, weapons, and armors, the base description must demonstrate that the item is created from a mass of air. Words such as 'sonic' or 'airy,' would be appropriate to describe the insubstantial nature of the items.
For Singing Swords, the base description must demonstrate that the item is moving independently of any physical influence. Words such as 'animated' or 'floating' would be appropriate to describe this behavior.
The nouns for the items must be consistent with acceptable nouns for the type of item that is being customized. Please see the Weapon Guide [http://www.play.net/gs4/info/armory/weapons.asp] for eligible nouns for Sonic Weapons and Singing Swords, and the Armor Guide [http://www.play.net/gs4/info/armory/armor.asp] for eligible nouns for Sonic Shields and Sonic Armors.
Before receiving this sort of alteration, please have the following information prepared for the merchant:
* The spell to be customized (Sonic Weapon Song).
* The item base to be customized (a short sword).
* The '15/15/15' description of the item (a wavering/grey sonic/gladius).
* The 'long' or 'show' description desired, if any (a wavering silvery grey sonic gladius shrouded in mist).
Having this information ready beforehand will make the process as painless as possible. As is the case with any sort of alteration, it is always wise to have backup concepts prepared in case an issue arises with the original idea.
After the merchant has finished the process, the custom sonic can be called by PREParing the appropriate spell, and activating it via SING CUSTOM.
KILTHAL
Re: What I went with
05/07/2011 02:02 AM CDT
> The MIU is mostly for spellburst. As we can only single in lores...well I couldn't reach that 75 air ranks quite yet no matter the plan. Dodge will come in the upcoming trainings I think, my 69 ranks of CM is exactly what I needed to get 5 ranks of feint and 4 ranks of sweep both of which I utilize in my hunts quite a bit. That being 'capped' for my purposes, leaves me a few extras. But we'll see, about to train my first level after using up my fixskills, hope I can afford as much as I'm imagining.
69 MIU is overkill even when factoring in Spellburst. I have 29 ranks of AS and MIU. With that, plus all my Lores I can wear pretty much all the non-self cast spells of note and not get blown up: 101, 103, 107, 202, 503, 509, 602, 611, 618, 911. I've even had 920 up and not been blown up. Short version of this: Lores factor into Spellburst, and being 1x in both Air Lore and our two Mental Lores means you will be just fine.
As for the Air Lore, right, I forgot about the 1x limit, as it has been so long since that was ever an issue for me.
Just to clarify with your combat style, you will be using brawling weapons, and not 1030 as your main method, correct? If so, I would not stop with CM to gain Dodge, I would continue with CM (1 AS ever two ranks, plus more CMans), and just add in Dodge. You do not need to be fully 1x in Dodge, I was 0.75x in Dodge until cap and did just fine.
-Kilthal
"He came like the wind, like the wind touched everything, and like the wind was gone."
"For all that this may cause Hell to freeze over, I agree with Kilthal." -Siwas
69 MIU is overkill even when factoring in Spellburst. I have 29 ranks of AS and MIU. With that, plus all my Lores I can wear pretty much all the non-self cast spells of note and not get blown up: 101, 103, 107, 202, 503, 509, 602, 611, 618, 911. I've even had 920 up and not been blown up. Short version of this: Lores factor into Spellburst, and being 1x in both Air Lore and our two Mental Lores means you will be just fine.
As for the Air Lore, right, I forgot about the 1x limit, as it has been so long since that was ever an issue for me.
Just to clarify with your combat style, you will be using brawling weapons, and not 1030 as your main method, correct? If so, I would not stop with CM to gain Dodge, I would continue with CM (1 AS ever two ranks, plus more CMans), and just add in Dodge. You do not need to be fully 1x in Dodge, I was 0.75x in Dodge until cap and did just fine.
-Kilthal
"He came like the wind, like the wind touched everything, and like the wind was gone."
"For all that this may cause Hell to freeze over, I agree with Kilthal." -Siwas
THORNBROOK
Re: What I went with
05/07/2011 05:33 AM CDT
>Short version of this: Lores factor into Spellburst
Oh.
Thanks Kilthal.
Back to the drawing board.
Lochi
Oh.
Thanks Kilthal.
Back to the drawing board.
Lochi
WOLFES2
Re: What I went with
05/09/2011 09:02 AM CDT
The amount of dodge you need hinges to a degree on how much shield use you have. As he stated, since you are choosing to swing fist-scythes or troll-claws, CM will be more critical than the dodge.
Personally, I'd be heavily inclined to drop the CMAN feint and get CMAN hamstring. It's fast and your sonic flares can/will be set off by it. If something cannot be brought into a hittable stance with sweep and hamstring then lullabye will generally do so. While sweep and hamstring sort of do similar things, they are different and you will find times to use one or the other. If you don't enjoy the idea of overlapping CMANs, you might consider something with more of a defensive bent, such as Mfocus.
Also, CMAN shield bash is very nice with a flaring/enhancive shield. While this removes the potential benefits of using 1009, it makes sense to try and keep some defenses in case of sonic gear dropping. I found being trained about 1.25-1.5x in shield with this CMAN to be fairly effective, as it creates stancing/damage/kneeling or proning the victim/stuns and it may also create some RT. The only aspect that is annoying is that most of the time it knocks things to a sitting or kneeling position and not full prone. This is about the only instance in which sweep is superior when hunting things that fall on you. The bowels would be the primary area where this would matter.
There really is a lot to consider. I think the standard shield use build flip flops between being nearly singled in dodge versus getting very little dodge and being as close to 2x in shield as possible. 1019 and blurs will already give you some phantom ranks in dodge as is. Even going .25x in dodge will be a nice increase in ability. In turn, shield bash is most effective with 2x in shield. I would just post your future training builds before finalizing them, if you want analysis.
~Galenok
Personally, I'd be heavily inclined to drop the CMAN feint and get CMAN hamstring. It's fast and your sonic flares can/will be set off by it. If something cannot be brought into a hittable stance with sweep and hamstring then lullabye will generally do so. While sweep and hamstring sort of do similar things, they are different and you will find times to use one or the other. If you don't enjoy the idea of overlapping CMANs, you might consider something with more of a defensive bent, such as Mfocus.
Also, CMAN shield bash is very nice with a flaring/enhancive shield. While this removes the potential benefits of using 1009, it makes sense to try and keep some defenses in case of sonic gear dropping. I found being trained about 1.25-1.5x in shield with this CMAN to be fairly effective, as it creates stancing/damage/kneeling or proning the victim/stuns and it may also create some RT. The only aspect that is annoying is that most of the time it knocks things to a sitting or kneeling position and not full prone. This is about the only instance in which sweep is superior when hunting things that fall on you. The bowels would be the primary area where this would matter.
There really is a lot to consider. I think the standard shield use build flip flops between being nearly singled in dodge versus getting very little dodge and being as close to 2x in shield as possible. 1019 and blurs will already give you some phantom ranks in dodge as is. Even going .25x in dodge will be a nice increase in ability. In turn, shield bash is most effective with 2x in shield. I would just post your future training builds before finalizing them, if you want analysis.
~Galenok
KILTHAL
Re: What I went with
05/12/2011 01:58 PM CDT
When it comes to Shield and Dodge, I just prefer a balanced approach, since ranks in both help you to both Block and Evade attacks, in addition to just giving a DS boost. Plus, if the bard in question is going to be using a Sonic Shield, then the penalties a shield will have on Evading will be minimized, making a balanced approach even more powerful than going heavy shield/no dodge. The other way may work, but 2x Weapon, 1x CM, Shield, Armor, PT, Spells, and 0.75x Dodge is a well rounded and very viable path for Shield and Weapon melee bards.
As for CMans, I had sweep for a long time, but eventually got rid of it, as it was redundant (we have Lullabye and E-wave), and a one trick pony. The CMan I replaced it with was Cheapshots, which provides me with several Manuevers in return, one of which will knock things down (Kneebash, which makes things kneel instead of prone). Some of the others can lower the DS of the target (swiftkick), or even keep a target from casting temporarily (throatchop). Feint is a good offensive manuever, but especially at high level, it is helpful defensively, as creatures will try and use it on you. The defensive aspect you gain from learning a CMan should not be overlooked, since being able to defend against some Manuevers can be the difference in surviving a hunting ground and being dead meat. With that in mind, a lot of my CMans were also picked with Bandits in mind (Feint, Cheapshots, Subdual Strike, Cunning Defense), as I end up hunting them most often, so mileage for others may very.
Another thing to consider with CMans is if Lochiven will be going a heavy Mstrike + Sonic Brawler combat style, then that will eat up stamina very quickly. This does not rule out the use of active CMan attacks, but you definitely have to find a good balance and watch your stamina so you don't pop your muscles.
But as Stormbump said, if you'd like some more analysis, feel free to post your training ideas. It's nice to have some melee bard shop talk for a change.
-Kilthal
"He came like the wind, like the wind touched everything, and like the wind was gone."
"For all that this may cause Hell to freeze over, I agree with Kilthal." -Siwas
As for CMans, I had sweep for a long time, but eventually got rid of it, as it was redundant (we have Lullabye and E-wave), and a one trick pony. The CMan I replaced it with was Cheapshots, which provides me with several Manuevers in return, one of which will knock things down (Kneebash, which makes things kneel instead of prone). Some of the others can lower the DS of the target (swiftkick), or even keep a target from casting temporarily (throatchop). Feint is a good offensive manuever, but especially at high level, it is helpful defensively, as creatures will try and use it on you. The defensive aspect you gain from learning a CMan should not be overlooked, since being able to defend against some Manuevers can be the difference in surviving a hunting ground and being dead meat. With that in mind, a lot of my CMans were also picked with Bandits in mind (Feint, Cheapshots, Subdual Strike, Cunning Defense), as I end up hunting them most often, so mileage for others may very.
Another thing to consider with CMans is if Lochiven will be going a heavy Mstrike + Sonic Brawler combat style, then that will eat up stamina very quickly. This does not rule out the use of active CMan attacks, but you definitely have to find a good balance and watch your stamina so you don't pop your muscles.
But as Stormbump said, if you'd like some more analysis, feel free to post your training ideas. It's nice to have some melee bard shop talk for a change.
-Kilthal
"He came like the wind, like the wind touched everything, and like the wind was gone."
"For all that this may cause Hell to freeze over, I agree with Kilthal." -Siwas
THORNBROOK
Re: What I went with
05/21/2011 07:51 PM CDT
Well hunting in the skull temple is much easier then it was before. In the process of migrating CMans now. All good advice on maneuver choices.
Few new questions come to mind.
1. With regards to unravelling for mana, I don't get anything from critters do I? I certainly haven't seen anything drained. So what magical items would be best to carry around? From the recharging POV I know crystal wands took the most mana to fill completely. I'm something of a packrat...and keep all the stuff I find hunting, can recharge up whatever works best.
2. In a few trains, going to visit the Rift again, as this is by and large my favorite hunting area in the game. I'm wondering though, how do bards fare with their TD in the rift? I think I remember it being a problem, and with no access to blues to lessen the gap. Just curious if every spell cast at me by witches (2), warlocks (3) are going to be a guaranteed hit or if theres a bit of wiggle room. I imagine throatchop and song of noise are things I"d have to work in regardless. I know this is getting a bit ahead of my level, as I get to spend a good amount of time with lunatics and naisircs first, along with the joy that is thorns.
3. Anyone have space in their shop to rent? I didn't leave myself notes as to what anything in my lockers does, so I think if I must loresing to everything I might as well clear some of it out. Solhaven is home so that would be preferred, but mule/whenimers/TI would all be ok too. Reply here or find me in game and we can work out the details.
Lochiven
Few new questions come to mind.
1. With regards to unravelling for mana, I don't get anything from critters do I? I certainly haven't seen anything drained. So what magical items would be best to carry around? From the recharging POV I know crystal wands took the most mana to fill completely. I'm something of a packrat...and keep all the stuff I find hunting, can recharge up whatever works best.
2. In a few trains, going to visit the Rift again, as this is by and large my favorite hunting area in the game. I'm wondering though, how do bards fare with their TD in the rift? I think I remember it being a problem, and with no access to blues to lessen the gap. Just curious if every spell cast at me by witches (2), warlocks (3) are going to be a guaranteed hit or if theres a bit of wiggle room. I imagine throatchop and song of noise are things I"d have to work in regardless. I know this is getting a bit ahead of my level, as I get to spend a good amount of time with lunatics and naisircs first, along with the joy that is thorns.
3. Anyone have space in their shop to rent? I didn't leave myself notes as to what anything in my lockers does, so I think if I must loresing to everything I might as well clear some of it out. Solhaven is home so that would be preferred, but mule/whenimers/TI would all be ok too. Reply here or find me in game and we can work out the details.
Lochiven
WOLFES2
Re: What I went with
05/21/2011 11:32 PM CDT
At some point, try the minotaurs out. I think they are older than skull temple stuff but I could be wrong. They might be the same. A little tougher.
As far as using 1013 to drain mana. You should have about 20-24 ranks of MMC in order to get a nice return on the spell. You have to strip all the spells off a critter before you begin to get mana from them. Some critters have no spells, some maybe 1-2 and others 3-5. You have to learn what in your hunting area gives the best mana return for your investment. Once you use 1013 the first time, you need to manually RENEW 1013 each time to strip another spells and/or absorb mana from your target.
~Galenok
As far as using 1013 to drain mana. You should have about 20-24 ranks of MMC in order to get a nice return on the spell. You have to strip all the spells off a critter before you begin to get mana from them. Some critters have no spells, some maybe 1-2 and others 3-5. You have to learn what in your hunting area gives the best mana return for your investment. Once you use 1013 the first time, you need to manually RENEW 1013 each time to strip another spells and/or absorb mana from your target.
~Galenok
KRAKII
Re: What I went with
05/23/2011 10:09 AM CDT
Also, get to know roughly how much mana each critter in the area tends to have: once you've renewed Unravel/1013 enough and sucked it dry--note that "knowing more Songs" == "more mana drained", of which you get only half, then modified by your Mana Control:Mental--then you can "stop unravel\r" and move on to the next.
Note that generally speaking, non-spellcasting critters tend to have very little mana; spellcasting critters tend to wear spells. Unravelling the first one means you get nothing; Unravelling the second means you have to go through all of the spells, and only THEN get to the good bits.
("How many Unravels does it take to get to the chewy center of a critter-based mana-pop?")
This is why you see so many Bards hitting up the pawnshops in their towns for crystal and blue wands; making friends with a Wizard who knows Duplicate/918 will help, too.
Note that generally speaking, non-spellcasting critters tend to have very little mana; spellcasting critters tend to wear spells. Unravelling the first one means you get nothing; Unravelling the second means you have to go through all of the spells, and only THEN get to the good bits.
("How many Unravels does it take to get to the chewy center of a critter-based mana-pop?")
This is why you see so many Bards hitting up the pawnshops in their towns for crystal and blue wands; making friends with a Wizard who knows Duplicate/918 will help, too.
THORNBROOK
Re: What I went with
05/23/2011 08:35 PM CDT
Good to know about having to strip all the spells first. A pain but might come in handy some places. So for props...what magic item gives the best return?
Andddd still looking to rent out part of a shop if someone has or knows someone with space and wants some advertising.
Lochiven
Andddd still looking to rent out part of a shop if someone has or knows someone with space and wants some advertising.
Lochiven
GIETLM3
Re: What I went with
05/24/2011 12:34 PM CDT
Slender blue, crystal wands and golden wands seem to work the best for me.
SILVERPHOENIX21
Re: What I went with
05/26/2011 02:25 AM CDT
>Slender blue, crystal wands and golden wands seem to work the best for me.
Only the first two are worth it, in my experience.
Only the first two are worth it, in my experience.
DOUG
FIREPHOENIX
