Hi All,
I play a twc bard and am wondering if Simu has ever considered allowing bards to sing up two weapons at a time? It makes sense to me since I could sing up a shield and a weapon and a 1025 weapon, so why not two handaxes or what not? Maybe this is a settled issue but I don't know.
Thanks,
Zelas
BLOBUE2
KRAKII
Re: TWC bards - why can't we do two sonic weapons?
11/04/2011 01:32 PM CDT
The problem lies in that you cannot, currently, have two copies of the same spell active on you. You do not get "another" copy of Elemental Defense II when someone casts it at you... you get additional duration.
It could be solved by changing the names to "Left Hand Sonic Equipment Song" [enabled: weapon, shield; 9th level] and "Right Hand Sonic Equipment Song" [enabled: weapon; 12th level], but those do not roll quite so trippingly off the tongue, now, do they?
Also, it would (notionally, at least) allow Bards using Two-Weapons to get a Sonic weapon three levels before it would 'normally' be available...
...unless they also went and changed the code (some more, that is) so that there's a spell knowledge check so Left Hand Sonic Equipment Song would be [enabled: shield 9 Songs known; weapon 12 Songs known].
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I mean what the hell, if we're having the change the Song implementation anyhow.... :)
It could be solved by changing the names to "Left Hand Sonic Equipment Song" [enabled: weapon, shield; 9th level] and "Right Hand Sonic Equipment Song" [enabled: weapon; 12th level], but those do not roll quite so trippingly off the tongue, now, do they?
Also, it would (notionally, at least) allow Bards using Two-Weapons to get a Sonic weapon three levels before it would 'normally' be available...
...unless they also went and changed the code (some more, that is) so that there's a spell knowledge check so Left Hand Sonic Equipment Song would be [enabled: shield 9 Songs known; weapon 12 Songs known].
.
.
I mean what the hell, if we're having the change the Song implementation anyhow.... :)
BLOBUE2
Re: TWC bards - why can't we do two sonic weapons?
11/04/2011 02:15 PM CDT
Hi Krakii,
Thank you for the explanation. How about this then:
Change 1009 to Sonic Equipment Song I - allow only shields until level 12 after that the bard can sing whatever.
Change 1012 to Sonic Equipment Song II - and allow whatever.
That should not break any existing scripts unless they use the spell mneumonics and would allow a more logical set of choices for non sword and board bards.
Zelas
Thank you for the explanation. How about this then:
Change 1009 to Sonic Equipment Song I - allow only shields until level 12 after that the bard can sing whatever.
Change 1012 to Sonic Equipment Song II - and allow whatever.
That should not break any existing scripts unless they use the spell mneumonics and would allow a more logical set of choices for non sword and board bards.
Zelas
KRAKII
Re: TWC bards - why can't we do two sonic weapons?
11/04/2011 02:32 PM CDT
Oh, I'm sure there is a way to do it; just no coder that has ever actually put in the time or gotten the clearance to do it.
I was merely pointing out the impossibility of doing it under the extant spell system.
I was merely pointing out the impossibility of doing it under the extant spell system.
WOLFES2
Re: TWC bards - why can't we do two sonic weapons?
11/04/2011 03:17 PM CDT
And in all fairness, it would be stupidly overpowered.
Two 7x double flaring disarm free weapons? Sorry, as a bard of over 13 years, even I have have to say, "NO."
You want that kind of power then spend some silvers.
~Galenok
Two 7x double flaring disarm free weapons? Sorry, as a bard of over 13 years, even I have have to say, "NO."
You want that kind of power then spend some silvers.
~Galenok
BLOBUE
Re: TWC bards - why can't we do two sonic weapons?
11/04/2011 05:43 PM CDT
It all depends on what is more important, game balance and overpower issues, or consistency with the in game story? I have a horse in the race in that I use twc, but that being said it is an inconsistency that a bard could sing a weapon and a shield but not two weapons. Maybe the real issue is that sonic weapons themselves are overpowered.
For that matter why don't sonic armor and shields have reactive flares? Bards are masters of air magic so why no reactive flares with enough air lore? I'm sure it's the same answer - too strong. I get that and if that is how decisions are made then so be it.
I'm starting to reconsider my training path since thw vs twc/ohe are about the same in terms of points it might be better switch to thw since then I can get the full benefit of sonic weapons.
Thanks for the discussions.
Zelas
For that matter why don't sonic armor and shields have reactive flares? Bards are masters of air magic so why no reactive flares with enough air lore? I'm sure it's the same answer - too strong. I get that and if that is how decisions are made then so be it.
I'm starting to reconsider my training path since thw vs twc/ohe are about the same in terms of points it might be better switch to thw since then I can get the full benefit of sonic weapons.
Thanks for the discussions.
Zelas
KRAKII
Re: TWC bards - why can't we do two sonic weapons?
11/07/2011 09:16 AM CST
Oh, believe me, we asked for it! (When armor & shields started flaring. :)
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Actually, "getting the full benefit of sonic weapons" is easier if you use smaller, faster weapons, simply because you get more flares. The power of the weapons lies in the flares more than anything else. This gets even more true once you throw Song of Tonis/1035 into the mix. [See the long discussion we just had about this, around three weeks ago. Galenok & I were the main posters, I think.]
Also, if you use Two-Hand weapons, you cannot use your Sonic Shield at size Large (encumbering as Small) or size Tower (encumbering as Medium), for example, at level 50 (technically at level 48, counting level 0 and pre-level trainings).
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Actually, "getting the full benefit of sonic weapons" is easier if you use smaller, faster weapons, simply because you get more flares. The power of the weapons lies in the flares more than anything else. This gets even more true once you throw Song of Tonis/1035 into the mix. [See the long discussion we just had about this, around three weeks ago. Galenok & I were the main posters, I think.]
Also, if you use Two-Hand weapons, you cannot use your Sonic Shield at size Large (encumbering as Small) or size Tower (encumbering as Medium), for example, at level 50 (technically at level 48, counting level 0 and pre-level trainings).
SILVERPHOENIX21
Re: TWC bards - why can't we do two sonic weapons?
11/08/2011 12:33 PM CST
>And in all fairness, it would be stupidly overpowered. <Galenok>
I grudgingly agree. Of course, while we're coding changes, we could always code the 1009-level version to function differently in terms of flares, disarm protection, etc.
I grudgingly agree. Of course, while we're coding changes, we could always code the 1009-level version to function differently in terms of flares, disarm protection, etc.
