I have been looking more carefully into the use of weapons with UAC combat system. OK, using various weapons gives you a bonus to DF but drops the MM value. Apparently this does more damage, but with a lesser chance of getting a hit. Sounds pretty much like a wash to me. But then I noted that using an enchanted weapon adds to the UAF, which then should increase hit probability. So, would using a high enchant weapon bring the hit probability back up enough to make it worth while to use one?
"So, what does that green line on the graph represent?"
"Oh, that's the projection of a hypothetical offspring from a union between Sauron and Cruella de Ville; we use that as a baseline for determining character alignment."
THROGG
THROGG
Re: weapon use
07/24/2014 02:10 PM CDT
Here's a clip of some unarmed combat with and without weapons. First, just using 4x handwraps, then a 0x tiger claw, then a 4x tiger claw. Analysis, anyone? I'm assuming the MM rises on the second attack due to the target being stunned? Also, it looks like the MM keeps going down as the weapon enchant rises, which means to me that the designers wanted to offset any possibility of getting a real bonus from weapon use.
>hide
Roundtime: 3 sec.
You attempt to blend with the surroundings, and feel confident that no one has noticed your doing so.
HR>
The monk searches around looking for something.
The monk glances around, sure it has missed something.
H>
The monk searches around looking for something.
The monk glances around, sure it has missed something.
H>pun monk head
You leap from hiding to strike!
You make a precise attempt to punch a Sheruvian monk!
Your attack is hindered by holding a glistening sea-blue buckler!
You have good positioning against a Sheruvian monk.
UAF: 300 vs UDF: 276 = 1.086 * MM: 75 + d100: 46 = 127
... and hit for 37 points of damage!
Strong downward swing staggers foe and dents skull!
The Sheruvian monk is stunned!
The Sheruvian monk is knocked to its knees!
The Sheruvian monk seems at a loss for words!
Strike leaves foe vulnerable to a followup kick attack!
Roundtime: 4 sec.
R>
A Sheruvian monk swings a black steel jeddart-axe at you!
AS: +239 vs DS: +312 with AvD: +24 + d100 roll: +76 = +27
A clean miss.
R>hide
Roundtime: 3 sec.
You attempt to blend with the surroundings, and feel confident that no one has noticed your doing so.
HR>pun monk neck
You leap from hiding to strike!
You make a precise attempt to punch a Sheruvian monk!
Your attack is hindered by holding a glistening sea-blue buckler!
You have excellent positioning against a Sheruvian monk.
UAF: 300 vs UDF: 256 = 1.171 * MM: 92 + d100: 19 = 126
... and hit for 47 points of damage!
Carotid artery crushed by strong blow to neck! Blood goes everywhere!
The Sheruvian monk screams emotionlessly one last time and lies still.
Roundtime: 4 sec.
R>
A Sheruvian monk swings a black steel jeddart-axe at you!
AS: +239 vs DS: +312 with AvD: +24 + d100 roll: +64 = +15
A clean miss.
R>loot
You search the Sheruvian monk.
It had some black velvet robes, a black steel jeddart-axe.
It didn't carry any silver.
It had nothing else of value.
A Sheruvian monk's body is engulfed in a brilliant crimson aura. When your eyes clear, nothing remains of it but dust.
>get tig
You remove a tiger-claw from in your deep black silk pack.
>
A Sheruvian monk swings a black steel jeddart-axe at you!
AS: +239 vs DS: +310 with AvD: +24 + d100 roll: +91 = +44
A clean miss.
>hide
Roundtime: 3 sec.
You attempt to blend with the surroundings, and feel confident that no one has noticed your doing so.
HR>
The monk searches around looking for something.
The monk glances around, sure it has missed something.
H>pun monk head
You leap from hiding to strike!
You make a precise attempt to punch a Sheruvian monk!
Your attack is hindered by holding a glistening sea-blue buckler!
You have good positioning against a Sheruvian monk.
UAF: 300 vs UDF: 276 = 1.086 * MM: 58 + d100: 81 = 144
... and hit for 40 points of damage!
Solid blow to the jaw leaves the Sheruvian monk spitting blood... and teeth!
The Sheruvian monk is stunned!
The Sheruvian monk chokes, momentarily unable to speak!
Roundtime: 4 sec.
R>hide
Roundtime: 3 sec.
You attempt to blend with the surroundings, and feel confident that no one has noticed your doing so.
HR>pun monk neck
You leap from hiding to strike!
You make a precise attempt to punch a Sheruvian monk!
Your attack is hindered by holding a glistening sea-blue buckler!
You have excellent positioning against a Sheruvian monk.
UAF: 300 vs UDF: 267 = 1.123 * MM: 65 + d100: 84 = 157
... and hit for 60 points of damage!
Nasty punch sinks into the lower back. Internal organs don't like that!
Roundtime: 4 sec.
R>
The Sheruvian monk's eyes fill with hatred as it struggles to regain control!
R>hide
Roundtime: 3 sec.
You attempt to blend with the surroundings, and feel confident that no one has noticed your doing so.
HR>kick
You leap from hiding to strike!
You attempt to kick a Sheruvian monk!
Your attack is hindered by holding a glistening sea-blue buckler!
You have excellent positioning against a Sheruvian monk.
UAF: 300 vs UDF: 263 = 1.140 * MM: 82 + d100: 29 = 122
... and hit for 63 points of damage!
High flying kick drives toe deep into the neck, cutting off blood and air simultaneously!
The Sheruvian monk falls to the ground and lies still.
Roundtime: 5 sec.
R>loot
You search the Sheruvian monk.
It had some black velvet robes, a black steel jeddart-axe.
It didn't carry any silver.
It had an uncut diamond on it!
It had nothing else of value.
A Sheruvian monk's body is engulfed in a brilliant crimson aura. When your eyes clear, nothing remains of it but dust.
>stow r
You put a tiger-claw in your deep black silk pack.
>get dia
You pick up an uncut diamond.
>stow r
You put an uncut diamond in your deep black silk pack.
>get other tig
You remove a black vultite tiger-claw from in your deep black silk pack.
>
A Sheruvian monk runs in, scanning the area for targets.
>hide
Roundtime: 3 sec.
You attempt to blend with the surroundings, and feel confident that no one has noticed your doing so.
HR>
The monk searches around looking for something.
The monk glances around, sure it has missed something.
H>pun monk head
You leap from hiding to strike!
You make a precise attempt to punch a Sheruvian monk!
Your attack is hindered by holding a glistening sea-blue buckler!
You have decent positioning against a Sheruvian monk.
UAF: 310 vs UDF: 276 = 1.123 * MM: 59 + d100: 29 = 95
A close miss!
Roundtime: 4 sec.
R>hide
A Sheruvian monk bellows, "Bow down before Sheru or lie bleeding at his feet! The choice is yours, infidel!"
A Sheruvian monk swings a black steel jeddart-axe at you!
AS: +314 vs DS: +312 with AvD: +24 + d100 roll: +10 = +36
A clean miss.
>
Roundtime: 3 sec.
You attempt to blend with the surroundings, and feel confident that no one has noticed your doing so.
HR>pun monk head
You leap from hiding to strike!
You make a precise attempt to punch a Sheruvian monk!
Your attack is hindered by holding a glistening sea-blue buckler!
You have good positioning against a Sheruvian monk.
UAF: 310 vs UDF: 351 = 0.883 * MM: 59 + d100: 80 = 132
... and hit for 41 points of damage!
Fast, painful strike to lower back.
The Sheruvian monk is stunned!
Strike leaves foe vulnerable to a followup kick attack!
Roundtime: 4 sec.
R>hide
Roundtime: 3 sec.
You attempt to blend with the surroundings, and feel confident that no one has noticed your doing so.
HR>
A Sheruvian monk runs into the room and faces off with you, its weapon held high and a distasteful sneer on its face.
HR>
The monk searches around looking for something.
The monk glances around, sure it has missed something.
H>pun other monk neck
You leap from hiding to strike!
You make a precise attempt to punch a Sheruvian monk!
Your attack is hindered by holding a glistening sea-blue buckler!
You have excellent positioning against a Sheruvian monk.
UAF: 310 vs UDF: 276 = 1.123 * MM: 66 + d100: 83 = 157
... and hit for 65 points of damage!
Spine severed by brutal strike to the back of the neck! That was almost humane.
The Sheruvian monk falls to the ground and lies still.
Roundtime: 4 sec.<<
R>
>hide
Roundtime: 3 sec.
You attempt to blend with the surroundings, and feel confident that no one has noticed your doing so.
HR>
The monk searches around looking for something.
The monk glances around, sure it has missed something.
H>
The monk searches around looking for something.
The monk glances around, sure it has missed something.
H>pun monk head
You leap from hiding to strike!
You make a precise attempt to punch a Sheruvian monk!
Your attack is hindered by holding a glistening sea-blue buckler!
You have good positioning against a Sheruvian monk.
UAF: 300 vs UDF: 276 = 1.086 * MM: 75 + d100: 46 = 127
... and hit for 37 points of damage!
Strong downward swing staggers foe and dents skull!
The Sheruvian monk is stunned!
The Sheruvian monk is knocked to its knees!
The Sheruvian monk seems at a loss for words!
Strike leaves foe vulnerable to a followup kick attack!
Roundtime: 4 sec.
R>
A Sheruvian monk swings a black steel jeddart-axe at you!
AS: +239 vs DS: +312 with AvD: +24 + d100 roll: +76 = +27
A clean miss.
R>hide
Roundtime: 3 sec.
You attempt to blend with the surroundings, and feel confident that no one has noticed your doing so.
HR>pun monk neck
You leap from hiding to strike!
You make a precise attempt to punch a Sheruvian monk!
Your attack is hindered by holding a glistening sea-blue buckler!
You have excellent positioning against a Sheruvian monk.
UAF: 300 vs UDF: 256 = 1.171 * MM: 92 + d100: 19 = 126
... and hit for 47 points of damage!
Carotid artery crushed by strong blow to neck! Blood goes everywhere!
The Sheruvian monk screams emotionlessly one last time and lies still.
Roundtime: 4 sec.
R>
A Sheruvian monk swings a black steel jeddart-axe at you!
AS: +239 vs DS: +312 with AvD: +24 + d100 roll: +64 = +15
A clean miss.
R>loot
You search the Sheruvian monk.
It had some black velvet robes, a black steel jeddart-axe.
It didn't carry any silver.
It had nothing else of value.
A Sheruvian monk's body is engulfed in a brilliant crimson aura. When your eyes clear, nothing remains of it but dust.
>get tig
You remove a tiger-claw from in your deep black silk pack.
>
A Sheruvian monk swings a black steel jeddart-axe at you!
AS: +239 vs DS: +310 with AvD: +24 + d100 roll: +91 = +44
A clean miss.
>hide
Roundtime: 3 sec.
You attempt to blend with the surroundings, and feel confident that no one has noticed your doing so.
HR>
The monk searches around looking for something.
The monk glances around, sure it has missed something.
H>pun monk head
You leap from hiding to strike!
You make a precise attempt to punch a Sheruvian monk!
Your attack is hindered by holding a glistening sea-blue buckler!
You have good positioning against a Sheruvian monk.
UAF: 300 vs UDF: 276 = 1.086 * MM: 58 + d100: 81 = 144
... and hit for 40 points of damage!
Solid blow to the jaw leaves the Sheruvian monk spitting blood... and teeth!
The Sheruvian monk is stunned!
The Sheruvian monk chokes, momentarily unable to speak!
Roundtime: 4 sec.
R>hide
Roundtime: 3 sec.
You attempt to blend with the surroundings, and feel confident that no one has noticed your doing so.
HR>pun monk neck
You leap from hiding to strike!
You make a precise attempt to punch a Sheruvian monk!
Your attack is hindered by holding a glistening sea-blue buckler!
You have excellent positioning against a Sheruvian monk.
UAF: 300 vs UDF: 267 = 1.123 * MM: 65 + d100: 84 = 157
... and hit for 60 points of damage!
Nasty punch sinks into the lower back. Internal organs don't like that!
Roundtime: 4 sec.
R>
The Sheruvian monk's eyes fill with hatred as it struggles to regain control!
R>hide
Roundtime: 3 sec.
You attempt to blend with the surroundings, and feel confident that no one has noticed your doing so.
HR>kick
You leap from hiding to strike!
You attempt to kick a Sheruvian monk!
Your attack is hindered by holding a glistening sea-blue buckler!
You have excellent positioning against a Sheruvian monk.
UAF: 300 vs UDF: 263 = 1.140 * MM: 82 + d100: 29 = 122
... and hit for 63 points of damage!
High flying kick drives toe deep into the neck, cutting off blood and air simultaneously!
The Sheruvian monk falls to the ground and lies still.
Roundtime: 5 sec.
R>loot
You search the Sheruvian monk.
It had some black velvet robes, a black steel jeddart-axe.
It didn't carry any silver.
It had an uncut diamond on it!
It had nothing else of value.
A Sheruvian monk's body is engulfed in a brilliant crimson aura. When your eyes clear, nothing remains of it but dust.
>stow r
You put a tiger-claw in your deep black silk pack.
>get dia
You pick up an uncut diamond.
>stow r
You put an uncut diamond in your deep black silk pack.
>get other tig
You remove a black vultite tiger-claw from in your deep black silk pack.
>
A Sheruvian monk runs in, scanning the area for targets.
>hide
Roundtime: 3 sec.
You attempt to blend with the surroundings, and feel confident that no one has noticed your doing so.
HR>
The monk searches around looking for something.
The monk glances around, sure it has missed something.
H>pun monk head
You leap from hiding to strike!
You make a precise attempt to punch a Sheruvian monk!
Your attack is hindered by holding a glistening sea-blue buckler!
You have decent positioning against a Sheruvian monk.
UAF: 310 vs UDF: 276 = 1.123 * MM: 59 + d100: 29 = 95
A close miss!
Roundtime: 4 sec.
R>hide
A Sheruvian monk bellows, "Bow down before Sheru or lie bleeding at his feet! The choice is yours, infidel!"
A Sheruvian monk swings a black steel jeddart-axe at you!
AS: +314 vs DS: +312 with AvD: +24 + d100 roll: +10 = +36
A clean miss.
>
Roundtime: 3 sec.
You attempt to blend with the surroundings, and feel confident that no one has noticed your doing so.
HR>pun monk head
You leap from hiding to strike!
You make a precise attempt to punch a Sheruvian monk!
Your attack is hindered by holding a glistening sea-blue buckler!
You have good positioning against a Sheruvian monk.
UAF: 310 vs UDF: 351 = 0.883 * MM: 59 + d100: 80 = 132
... and hit for 41 points of damage!
Fast, painful strike to lower back.
The Sheruvian monk is stunned!
Strike leaves foe vulnerable to a followup kick attack!
Roundtime: 4 sec.
R>hide
Roundtime: 3 sec.
You attempt to blend with the surroundings, and feel confident that no one has noticed your doing so.
HR>
A Sheruvian monk runs into the room and faces off with you, its weapon held high and a distasteful sneer on its face.
HR>
The monk searches around looking for something.
The monk glances around, sure it has missed something.
H>pun other monk neck
You leap from hiding to strike!
You make a precise attempt to punch a Sheruvian monk!
Your attack is hindered by holding a glistening sea-blue buckler!
You have excellent positioning against a Sheruvian monk.
UAF: 310 vs UDF: 276 = 1.123 * MM: 66 + d100: 83 = 157
... and hit for 65 points of damage!
Spine severed by brutal strike to the back of the neck! That was almost humane.
The Sheruvian monk falls to the ground and lies still.
Roundtime: 4 sec.<<
R>
SNOWBEAM
Re: weapon use
07/24/2014 02:27 PM CDT
From my experience, generally holding a weapon is not worth it. UAF is far less important the the drop in MM, and the DF is negligible to me. Considering you ambush as well, I would say all but the most powerful of weapons would not be worthwhile.
It has been said that UAC never intended held weapons to be a boon.
The only time I ever use them is if my bless wears off (I keep a tiger-claw backup) or when elemental or extra magic is needed (Such as Stone Sentinels, if you punch them you get hurt. And cold things need fire weapons, etc.)
-The mind behind Rowmi's eyes.
It has been said that UAC never intended held weapons to be a boon.
The only time I ever use them is if my bless wears off (I keep a tiger-claw backup) or when elemental or extra magic is needed (Such as Stone Sentinels, if you punch them you get hurt. And cold things need fire weapons, etc.)
-The mind behind Rowmi's eyes.
THROGG
Re: weapon use
07/24/2014 03:37 PM CDT
>>(Such as Stone Sentinels, if you punch them you get hurt. <<
Ah, I was wondering about them. My rogue is just about old enough to start hunting there. I was considering using a sai and just ambushing them; I'll have to see if UAC and a tiger claw are more effective.
The Bells of Hell
go ding-a-ling-a-ling
for you but not for me
Ah, I was wondering about them. My rogue is just about old enough to start hunting there. I was considering using a sai and just ambushing them; I'll have to see if UAC and a tiger claw are more effective.
The Bells of Hell
go ding-a-ling-a-ling
for you but not for me
IZDEN
Re: weapon use
07/25/2014 08:33 AM CDT
Stone/illoke goes easy with 4x handwraps. TWC with hot&cold brawling weapons makes a fun alternative, but doesn't really compete with punch/grapple/kick for speed.
