>>It's just that other classes are so much more underdeveloped compared to bards.

All classes are under developed compared to bards or some classes? This sentence is kind of ambiguous.

Either way I'd love to hear your thoughts on why you feel this way.

>Are you of the opinion that unless someone has played a Bard for X years, and as their main GS focus they cannot have an opinion (and post) on the state of Bards and any future development?

It is not a matter of X years or not, it is a matter of self-identification. If you do not feel that you are a "bard" or play and enjoy a bard, then why come in here and tell us that we are OP and don't deserve a chance at development and shoot down every request we make with dozens of cross-profession references? Consider for a second, when you come here to post, do you say "we" when you reference bards, or "you"?

>For example, go back and re-read my posts. I can't recall a time when I've said Bards should stop asking for things (and this should go for any professional folder.) Have I agreed with all the things suggested improvements? No, of course not. Why should I? Why should you? However, even when I disagree, over the years, I've still suggested more than a few improvements. Some combat, some simply RP development.

You are still arguing, albeit more eloquently, for why we, generally, as a bard profession, are less deserving or mechanically suited of receiving our requests than other professions. And perhaps you do occasionally argue in our defense. However, for every one of the more eloquent arguers, we also get tend to someone like Aratos who walks in and flat out informs us that we are "OP" and "what more could we possibly want?", to a profession that hasn't seen much development in years. Well, your smart phone accomplishes everything a smart phone should mechanically do. In fact, it out-performs the computers of 10 years ago! What more could you possibly want?! And yet new and shinier, perhaps not more useful but at least NEW, phones come out every few months because the industry understands human nature. Wanting and desiring new shiny things is a natural human desire, whether it be phones, cars, TV programming, or, yes, bard development. At this point, some bards might even be happy with a superficial cosmetic change to something as silly as the dance verb, if only to know that someone out there is even noticing us.

>I think you should reconsider what you think the Bard profession is in your opinion, and what staff thinks Bards should/could be. Then make suggestions based on what is more likely to be approved. Basically, re-evaluate what you're actually suggesting. I really can't sympathize with someone suggesting bards should get X super power and then complain when it's not implemented or people don't agree with it.

The problem with this is that we've tried this. We've been tame, off the wall, approached it as warriors, magical rogues, buffoons. Guilds? Spells? How about verbs? And what do we get? Resounding silence. A few months ago, I went and scanned the entire bard folder and found only one NIR response, and it was only a chuckle at one of the more deliberately joking bard requests. Nothing, otherwise, to help guide the bards here towards making more productive requests that would actually be considered or championed by a dev.

>Ultimately, I think you might be asking for the wrong things. A re-focus on Bardic needs, rather than wants might garner you more.

And right there, you are reinforcing Galenok's original complaint. "You might be asking for the wrong things." is just more diplomatic rephrase of "stop asking for those things."

-Cait

>It is not a matter of X years or not, it is a matter of self-identification. If you do not feel that you are a "bard" or play and enjoy a bard, then why come in here and tell us that we are OP and don't deserve a chance at development and shoot down every request we make with dozens of cross-profession references? Consider for a second, when you come here to post, do you say "we" when you reference bards, or "you"?
-Cait

So the message I'm hearing from you, and apparently others is this..

"Unless you play a bard and identify as one, don't post in our folder. If you (generalized to mean the populous that doesn't identify themselves as a bard) do want to post here, only agree with the suggestions we made. Otherwise, any dissent will be considered a personal and profession attack on us."

Consider your message heard.

I can't claim that I'll stop posting, but I guess I can skip my eloquence and simply stick to 'Bards should get this' or 'Bards shouldn't get this'.





For the record, though at this point I'm not sure if it matters as I don't identify myself as a Bard, I use 'you' because I'm directly addressing someone. Additionally, I use the actual professional name (Bard, Paladin, Ranger, etc) as well. In fact, I also do this in the Paladin folder as well, which is the profession most people associate me with (regardless of whether that has any truth or not).


-farmer
>"Mine lights my character on fire and makes her all glowy." -Raelee

>You misunderstand.
-Cait

I think you need to reread the post I responded to, then your latest response. Then consider who's being eloquent in their arguments.

Because, quite frankly, and with no ill will intended, I think my interpretation of the message I'm seeing from yourself, Galenok, and to a lesser extent other bards, was accurate.



-farmer
>"Mine lights my character on fire and makes her all glowy." -Raelee

>> someone like Aratos..

Thanks for trying to marginalize my opinion. Acting as if I just waltzed in here and saying what I did out of shear boredom. I've been playing on and off since 1994. My current main is a bard and I absolutely love it. I don't care one but that bards didn't get any of the new shield maneuvers. I never said that bards shouldn't have any development. Singing sword could use some help and I would love to be able to sing up some sonic handwraps. Maybe flesh out the guild some more. Like I said though, other classes need more development, paladins especially.

>>Easily the most OP class in the game and you want more? -ARATOS

>>I get that you want new things and I'm sure you will at some point, but I'd say bard development is at the bottom of the totem pole. They have killer combat abilities and om of a kind utility skills that are in high demand by the entire player base. They don't need or warrant any of these new cm skills. -ARATOS

>>It's not a matter of being fair. It's just that other classes are so much more underdeveloped compared to bards. I would love to see all the other classes be comparable to bards. -ARATOS

>Thanks for trying to marginalize my opinion. Acting as if I just waltzed in here and saying what I did out of shear boredom. I've been playing on and off since 1994. My current main is a bard and I absolutely love it. I don't care one but that bards didn't get any of the new shield maneuvers. I never said that bards shouldn't have any development. Singing sword could use some help and I would love to be able to sing up some sonic handwraps. Maybe flesh out the guild some more. Like I said though, other classes need more development, paladins especially. -ARATOS

From the contents of your previous posts, it easy to draw the conclusion that you would rather see other professions other than bards get development. Your first post, in particular, in this thread came across as very dismissive of the bard wants or needs. Well, I'm glad that you feel that bards are already awesome. I agree, which is why I play them. But if you feel that other professions are more deserving of more development, shouldn't you bring it up in those forums instead of repeatedly stating that bards don't need or warrant attention here?

This is the bard forum. It's what the bard forums are for. Discussing bard development.

-Cait

Concera, do pay attention to the topic of the thread. I answered the posed question and stated my opinions. You obviously don't care for opinion and that is fine. But don't try to act all high and mighty just because you disagree with me and others, it's not helping your cause any.

>Concera, do pay attention to the topic of the thread. I answered the posed question and stated my opinions. You obviously don't care for opinion and that is fine. But don't try to act all high and mighty just because you disagree with me and others, it's not helping your cause any. -ARATOS

Can you objectively tell me that your first response to the original question of the thread wasn't designed to be construed as dismissive? And if you wish to be dismissive, that is certainly your call, but then you shouldn't be surprised when other bards get upset.

Can you provide reasons as to why bards are OP and do not deserve shield mechanics in their own right, not based on the status of other profession development?

What do bards have now that preclude them from being considered for shield maneuvers? Since bards already have shield bash available as a CMan, and access to rogue-type CMans as well, it would make some sense to have access to at least the SMan version of shield bash and perhaps some of the more magical rogue shield maneuvers. Balance issues can be addressed by increasing the costs for SMans for magical semis as they have already done for CMans.

And if it does make RP or mechanical sense that bards should have access to these skills, what does the state of the other profession development have anything to do with granting or denying this?

-Cait

I mis-remember: do scars prevent singing, or only the wounds themselves?

I do know that there was something giving me wounds up in the Broken Lands that was annoying enough for me to start carrying herbs for head & neck wounds, and self-medicating. (This got easier when I realized I should start using Tonis while I was chewing through the herbiage, both for the shorter RTs and added Dodge ranks while I was busy doing it.)

.

I (briefly) addressed Dispel, inasmuch as it needs to be treated just like anyone else deals with spellcasting creatures. As annoying as it is to have a really nice spell removed--why is it that it seems to hit Elemental Defense III more often than Elemental Defense I?!?--I almost always like that better than having to deal with something damaging.

.

My big point was that by the time you're hunting the Scatter as you said, not-using Sonic Equipment Songs because of the potential to have them drop due to Renewal while stunned/disabled is no longer a good reason for not-using them. By that time, the durations are good enough that the likelihood of having the Renewal hit and being disabled coincide should be significantly controllable (find an empty room, sing Peace, whatever).

<<<<I don't see why the non-magical classes get more defense against spells. That makes no sense.>>>>

That's a really good point.

~ Heathyr and friends

<<<I moderately disagree.>>>

I strongly disagree with your moderate disagreement.

~ Heathyr and friends