Much of the Erithian past is shrouded in mystery, especially when it comes to the famed ancestral weapon - the katana. Now, by the hand of an unknown Erithian historian, the history of the katana is unveiled to the masses of Elanith. A past of failure, struggle, and hope, the katana's trial of creation unfolds to become the flower of the Erithi civilization.
The history of the katana can be found here: http://www.play.net/gs4/info/tomes/katana.asp
GS4-LOTHWYN
REBELAT
Re: The History of the Katana
08/27/2004 06:52 PM CDT
An enjoyable read. Erithi folks should have some fun running off it for RP, as well. ;)
Rail
Ik q*'*ap goort pra ik gno*'*ap goort k*'*pla?
Rail
Ik q*'*ap goort pra ik gno*'*ap goort k*'*pla?
MABEY
Re: The History of the Katana
08/28/2004 12:34 AM CDT
Aha! More Erithi cultural info to devour. :) I love it. Now, what would make me even happier, is if katana had a couple of neato Erithian-only actions. Only for those trained in two-handed weapons, of course. Just a thought!
Player of Haohmaru et al
"Those who cling to life die, and those who defy death live."
Player of Haohmaru et al
"Those who cling to life die, and those who defy death live."
BLKROSE373
Re: The History of the Katana
08/28/2004 01:41 AM CDT
What if.....the GMs have built into katanas something that kicks in after a long (and I mean LONG) time spent using the weapon?
That would certainly be a very interesting suprise for the one who discovers it. Of course, that would have to make it a total secret until it happened...and with the way they tell EVERYTHING these days....
But, it'd still be very cool, I think.
-Anthony.
MITHGUL
Re: The History of the Katana
08/28/2004 03:00 PM CDT
Thanks for the history, very nice!
Athena
"Only those things are beautiful which are inspired by madness and written by reason" ~ Andre' Gide
Athena
"Only those things are beautiful which are inspired by madness and written by reason" ~ Andre' Gide
KALLINI
Re: The History of the Katana
08/29/2004 09:16 AM CDT
The history looks good - pretty much describes standard weapon forging technique - but there seems to be one forging error in the katana history document.
When using clay to create the differential heat treatment on a katana (or any weapon, for that matter), clay is applied to the blade before the quench, as it's the clay that creates different cooling rates for the metal during the quench. In the history document, Dachitai drops the blade in clay after the quench, which wouldn't really help much.
There's nothing in the document that describes why the GS katana has such amazing properties compared to its real-world counterpart, but I can assume some sort of behind-the-scenes "Erithi forging magic" for that, I guess.
As for the Erithi weaponsmith in Whistler's Pass... It got me thinking that an equivalent Dwarven NPC weaponsmith in Zul Logoth would be a really nice addition to the game...
When using clay to create the differential heat treatment on a katana (or any weapon, for that matter), clay is applied to the blade before the quench, as it's the clay that creates different cooling rates for the metal during the quench. In the history document, Dachitai drops the blade in clay after the quench, which wouldn't really help much.
There's nothing in the document that describes why the GS katana has such amazing properties compared to its real-world counterpart, but I can assume some sort of behind-the-scenes "Erithi forging magic" for that, I guess.
As for the Erithi weaponsmith in Whistler's Pass... It got me thinking that an equivalent Dwarven NPC weaponsmith in Zul Logoth would be a really nice addition to the game...
GS4-LOTHWYN
Re: The History of the Katana
08/29/2004 02:55 PM CDT
KALLINI wrote:
> When using clay to create the differential heat treatment on a katana (or any weapon, for that matter), clay is applied to the blade before the quench, as it's the clay that creates different cooling rates for the metal during the quench. In the history document, Dachitai drops the blade in clay after the quench, which wouldn't really help much.
It's not meant to be exactly like RL forging, otherwise the katanas wouldn't have a 'song'. In this case, the clay, which is literally baked onto the metal, is used in the tempering process to intensify the toughness of the metal.
> There's nothing in the document that describes why the GS katana has such amazing properties compared to its real-world counterpart, but I can assume some sort of behind-the-scenes "Erithi forging magic" for that, I guess.
Sure there is... it's in the last paragraph.
L
> When using clay to create the differential heat treatment on a katana (or any weapon, for that matter), clay is applied to the blade before the quench, as it's the clay that creates different cooling rates for the metal during the quench. In the history document, Dachitai drops the blade in clay after the quench, which wouldn't really help much.
It's not meant to be exactly like RL forging, otherwise the katanas wouldn't have a 'song'. In this case, the clay, which is literally baked onto the metal, is used in the tempering process to intensify the toughness of the metal.
> There's nothing in the document that describes why the GS katana has such amazing properties compared to its real-world counterpart, but I can assume some sort of behind-the-scenes "Erithi forging magic" for that, I guess.
Sure there is... it's in the last paragraph.
L
KALLINI
Re: The History of the Katana
08/29/2004 03:10 PM CDT
>In this case, the clay is used for the tempering process, and is literally baked onto the blade to intensify the heating of the metal. It's not meant to be exactly like RL forging.
Ah, I see. I'm not sure quite how that'd work, but I'm no smith, either, just someone with an interest in the matter. Normally the clay controls the rate of cooling during the quench, which results in a harder edge compared to the rest of the blade, and it's this process which creates the hamon as well. Indian smiths also used this same technique to forge kukri, if I'm not mistaken.
If the process is not meant to be like RL forging, that's fine. I don't mean to sound all nitpicky, especially with a fantasy game that isn't intended to replicate the real world. I do enjoy background documents like this. I guess I just wanted to clarify the information in it for my own sake.
>Sure there is... it's in the last paragraph
Understood. I guess I just didn't make the connection between that and the weapon's amazing properties. I take it it's just assumed that everyone who owns one has bonded with the spark of life implanted within it by the smith, thus awakening its full powers.
Thanks for the reply.
Ah, I see. I'm not sure quite how that'd work, but I'm no smith, either, just someone with an interest in the matter. Normally the clay controls the rate of cooling during the quench, which results in a harder edge compared to the rest of the blade, and it's this process which creates the hamon as well. Indian smiths also used this same technique to forge kukri, if I'm not mistaken.
If the process is not meant to be like RL forging, that's fine. I don't mean to sound all nitpicky, especially with a fantasy game that isn't intended to replicate the real world. I do enjoy background documents like this. I guess I just wanted to clarify the information in it for my own sake.
>Sure there is... it's in the last paragraph
Understood. I guess I just didn't make the connection between that and the weapon's amazing properties. I take it it's just assumed that everyone who owns one has bonded with the spark of life implanted within it by the smith, thus awakening its full powers.
Thanks for the reply.
GS4-WARDEN
Re: The History of the Katana
08/30/2004 09:57 AM CDT
<<The history looks good - pretty much describes standard weapon forging technique - but there seems to be one forging error in the katana history document.
When using clay to create the differential heat treatment on a katana (or any weapon, for that matter), clay is applied to the blade before the quench, as it's the clay that creates different cooling rates for the metal during the quench. In the history document, Dachitai drops the blade in clay after the quench, which wouldn't really help much. - Kallini>>
From what I have read on forging swords, the clay is applied after quenching, before tempering. The sword is heated in the forge and the clay bakes onto the blade, creating an insulating shell around that portion of the sword that causes it to cool more slowly than the rest of the blade. This final cooling is an air-cooling, though, not a second quench. Tempering is intended to relieve stresses that are present in the as-quenched state.
Here's one link that discusses it:
http://people.howstuffworks.com/sword-making6.htm
Warden
When using clay to create the differential heat treatment on a katana (or any weapon, for that matter), clay is applied to the blade before the quench, as it's the clay that creates different cooling rates for the metal during the quench. In the history document, Dachitai drops the blade in clay after the quench, which wouldn't really help much. - Kallini>>
From what I have read on forging swords, the clay is applied after quenching, before tempering. The sword is heated in the forge and the clay bakes onto the blade, creating an insulating shell around that portion of the sword that causes it to cool more slowly than the rest of the blade. This final cooling is an air-cooling, though, not a second quench. Tempering is intended to relieve stresses that are present in the as-quenched state.
Here's one link that discusses it:
http://people.howstuffworks.com/sword-making6.htm
Warden
KALLINI
Re: The History of the Katana
08/30/2004 11:06 AM CDT
<<From what I have read on forging swords, the clay is applied after quenching, before tempering. The sword is heated in the forge and the clay bakes onto the blade, creating an insulating shell around that portion of the sword that causes it to cool more slowly than the rest of the blade. This final cooling is an air-cooling, though, not a second quench. Tempering is intended to relieve stresses that are present in the as-quenched state.
Hi, Warden. I never expected this to become an ongoing discussion, but here goes.
I've seen the "How Stuff Works" article before, and it does present one method of forging using clay for differential heat treatment, but not the forging method of the katana.
From what I can see in all the katana forging sources I can find, after the heating (covered in clay) in the furnace, the katana is subjected to an immediate water quench, which is essentially the final step, aside from then removing the clay, polishing and the like.
In fact, it seems that it's this final quench that gives the katana its pronounced curve, and without it, it would be a straight bladed sword.
Here are a number of sources I'm familiar with, that describe the method I'm referring to:
http://swordforum.com/forge/js-basicforging.html
http://swordforum.com/summer99/swordshop.html
http://www.dfoggknives.com/sword_notes_page_2.htm
Hi, Warden. I never expected this to become an ongoing discussion, but here goes.
I've seen the "How Stuff Works" article before, and it does present one method of forging using clay for differential heat treatment, but not the forging method of the katana.
From what I can see in all the katana forging sources I can find, after the heating (covered in clay) in the furnace, the katana is subjected to an immediate water quench, which is essentially the final step, aside from then removing the clay, polishing and the like.
In fact, it seems that it's this final quench that gives the katana its pronounced curve, and without it, it would be a straight bladed sword.
Here are a number of sources I'm familiar with, that describe the method I'm referring to:
http://swordforum.com/forge/js-basicforging.html
http://swordforum.com/summer99/swordshop.html
http://www.dfoggknives.com/sword_notes_page_2.htm
REBELAT
Re: The History of the Katana
08/30/2004 11:08 AM CDT
Short answer. Elanthian physics and material properties aren't the same as real world physics and material properties.
Rail
Ik q*'*ap goort pra ik gno*'*ap goort k*'*pla?
Rail
Ik q*'*ap goort pra ik gno*'*ap goort k*'*pla?
HATESHI
Re: The History of the Katana
08/30/2004 11:12 AM CDT
Unstable particles.
- EK
I am the snake; tempting, that bite you _take
Let_ me free your mind, leave yourself _behind
C'mon_, c'mon, now take the _chance
That's_ right -- let's dance
- EK
I am the snake; tempting, that bite you _take
Let_ me free your mind, leave yourself _behind
C'mon_, c'mon, now take the _chance
That's_ right -- let's dance
GS4-ELNATH
Re: The History of the Katana
08/30/2004 01:42 PM CDT
It's scary writing such things; the tsukamaki demo took more 'research' time than coding time, by a factor of twenty easily. Research, read, study--no substitute for actually DOing it (which I never have obviously). But as sure as the sun rises if there's an error in it somewhere, it will be pointed out.
I can't imagine a forge in a world where magic works not being very different from standard forging techniques, really. The 'technology' to make your forging easier exists in magic, it would be amazing if innovative human beings (or erithians) didn't find some shortcuts via magic.
I can't imagine a forge in a world where magic works not being very different from standard forging techniques, really. The 'technology' to make your forging easier exists in magic, it would be amazing if innovative human beings (or erithians) didn't find some shortcuts via magic.
THREATACIOUS
Re: The History of the Katana
08/30/2004 05:03 PM CDT
My only beef with the history document is that it states "Finding a metal bar of sufficiently high quality for the forging of a katana was also no easy feat." when in reality, the reason the katana was worked and folded so much was because of the very impure metals the Japanese had access to.
On the other hand, these aren't Japanese katanas.
-Threat-
On the other hand, these aren't Japanese katanas.
-Threat-
KALLINI
Re: The History of the Katana
08/30/2004 10:12 PM CDT
<<It's scary writing such things; the tsukamaki demo took more 'research' time than coding time, by a factor of twenty easily. Research, read, study--no substitute for actually DOing it (which I never have obviously). But as sure as the sun rises if there's an error in it somewhere, it will be pointed out.
<<I can't imagine a forge in a world where magic works not being very different from standard forging techniques, really. The 'technology' to make your forging easier exists in magic, it would be amazing if innovative human beings (or erithians) didn't find some shortcuts via magic.
I see it the same way, which is why I clarified earlier that I didn't want to seem nitpicky, even as I pointed out what I thought was a discrepancy.
I have no problem with the "magic influences/changes the forging process" explanation. I only pointed out what I did in case the intention was to replicate real world katana forging practices. However, since the GS katana is vastly superior to its real world counterpart, I suppose that it only makes sense that the forging would be vastly different and include some powerful magic as well.
<<I can't imagine a forge in a world where magic works not being very different from standard forging techniques, really. The 'technology' to make your forging easier exists in magic, it would be amazing if innovative human beings (or erithians) didn't find some shortcuts via magic.
I see it the same way, which is why I clarified earlier that I didn't want to seem nitpicky, even as I pointed out what I thought was a discrepancy.
I have no problem with the "magic influences/changes the forging process" explanation. I only pointed out what I did in case the intention was to replicate real world katana forging practices. However, since the GS katana is vastly superior to its real world counterpart, I suppose that it only makes sense that the forging would be vastly different and include some powerful magic as well.
