ARMOR Specialization and Opportunity Cost - Reinforcement, Casting 09/17/2016 09:08 AM CDT
I was thinking about Armor Reinforcement in another thread, and it's just not very good.

A 35% chance of not breaking your arm on a double minor is a nice passive bonus. If warriors had a spell circle, it'd make a perfectly balanced spell. If it was passive and you could still get Armor Support from another warrior, that might be a different story. But the opportunity cost for Armor Reinforcement is off-the-charts.

To be your sole armor spec, it'd have to be reliable enough that you could actually make the decision, "Nah, I won't chomp herbs; it probably won't cause a problem." I'd argue that happens at a minimum of 80% proc rate: at that point, you have about a 50/50 chance of stacking minors after 3 tries. Before that, I would just heal the wound, and why am I bothering to use Armor Reinforcement if my default is to spend 3-9 seconds healing minors after a combat?

For it to compete with the popularity of Armor Support, you'd probably want it at a minimum proc of 90%. That's a 50/50 chance of a stack after 7 stacked hits. You're giving up loot to use Armor Reinforcement. Any replacement for that has to be damn good. It'd also make Sunfist Berserker with the "power through minors" sigil a great - and thematic, since lore puts giantmen as the historial berserkers - build.

I'd consider making Reinforcement something like 30% + 3Ranks(Armor Group - 1)%. Flat 30% for robes, 33-45% for leathers, 36-65% for brig, 39-75% for chain, and 42-90% for plate.

Also, I've never seen Reinforcement proc when I tried using it, so I'm either very imperceptive or it doesn't have a message when it procs. Could someone share the message to put on the wiki if it exists? If not, it should exist.

Armored Casting is the same way.

It got buffed to 15% mana returned per rank, which is just not enough. It has to compete with Fluidity, which is still straight up better. Not failing a spell is better than "you failed the spell but didn't use as much mana".

At 20% mana per rank, I'd use Fluidity over casting. I failed the spell but didn't waste mana? Who cares, I still failed the spell.

At 30% per rank, you might have an argument. I failed the spell but actually got mana in the deal? That's interesting and definitely takes the edge off a failed spell.

At 15% per rank and -1 cast RT on failed spells on ranks 2 and 4, -1 hard RT (if you channeled) on ranks 3 and 5, then you'd have another thing. You failed the spell but can try again sooner/almost immediately and didn't spend as much? That's tempting. You're still failing more than you would with fluidity, but you can recover from the failures faster, which is a very interesting choice to make.
Reply
Re: ARMOR Specialization and Opportunity Cost - Reinforcement, Casting 09/17/2016 09:08 AM CDT
That bolding around ranks should be asterisks for multiplication.
Reply
Re: ARMOR Specialization and Opportunity Cost - Reinforcement, Casting 09/17/2016 09:37 AM CDT
Ya, I don't know a single Paladin that uses Armored Casting over Armored Fluidity.


As I gaze over the horizon, the wind tugs at my cloak and whispers, "Adventure" in my ear.

AIM: Kaight (Matt) GS4
Reply
Re: ARMOR Specialization and Opportunity Cost - Reinforcement, Casting 09/19/2016 04:35 AM CDT
>Ya, I don't know a single Paladin that uses Armored Casting over Armored Fluidity.

+1

And thus, none use Armor Support, Armored Evasion, etc. Not really sure to what extent this is working as intended, but if I was a GM who spent time to design aspects of the ARMOR system and I saw what little use some of it gets, I'd probably be sad.
Reply
Re: ARMOR Specialization and Opportunity Cost - Reinforcement, Casting 09/19/2016 08:46 AM CDT
Sounds like Fluidity is too good (drop it to 5% per rank/-25% reduction at max?), or the others need a little more spice....
Reply
Re: ARMOR Specialization and Opportunity Cost - Reinforcement, Casting 09/19/2016 12:25 PM CDT
No, No, No. The solution to things sucking is never "nerf the good thing people are using". I hate that mentality. Beef up the others to make them worth using, but don't nerf the thing people like.
Reply
Re: ARMOR Specialization and Opportunity Cost - Reinforcement, Casting 09/20/2016 04:51 AM CDT
KRAKII wrote
Sounds like Fluidity is too good (drop it to 5% per rank/-25% reduction at max?), or the others need a little more spice....


KHARIZ555 wrote
No, No, No. The solution to things sucking is never "nerf the good thing people are using". I hate that mentality. Beef up the others to make them worth using, but don't nerf the thing people like.


I assumed it was sarcasm based on the ellipsis where he pauses to gut laugh.

Though, when I was writing my initial reply, I had considered that basically certain skills have proven vastly more popular than others. I didn't talk about it since, from the serious perspective, I didn't want to suggest down-tweaking present skills was a good idea.
Reply
Re: ARMOR Specialization and Opportunity Cost - Reinforcement, Casting 09/20/2016 05:03 AM CDT
I would love for fluidity to able to be learned by all classes. Make armor use useful for pures after cap.

http://i.imgur.com/lsWPzG9.gif
Reply
Re: ARMOR Specialization and Opportunity Cost - Reinforcement, Casting 11/10/2016 06:39 PM CST
If CMANs didn't have such severe penalties for wounds, reinforcement would be much more attractive. For the same reason, the town empaths sit around bored. Squares just don't let wounds go like they used to. If you use CMANs, and you should, you heal the minors when you get them, because the CMAN penalties suck. That mode of operation means reinforcement is pretty pointless.

Kerl
Reply
Re: ARMOR Specialization and Opportunity Cost - Reinforcement, Casting 11/10/2016 09:55 PM CST
As I noted in the OP, Sunfist characers can ignore penalties from the minors with a sigil, which would make a tuned-up Reinforcement very appealing to them.

But the issue remains: for 200 ARMOR points, Armor Reinforcement has a 35% activation rate. That's just not high enough to rely on. You can't make a "keep from getting injured" strategy based on something with a 65% failure rate.

If an attack gets through, you've got a 2/3 chance of stacking the minors, and you were better off having carried 5 pounds of herbs, eaten basal moss between fights, and had another 30 pounds of encumbrance left over for something else.
Reply
Re: ARMOR Specialization and Opportunity Cost - Reinforcement, Casting 12/20/2016 12:42 PM CST
PFLATS:
It got buffed to 15% mana returned per rank, which is just not enough. It has to compete with Fluidity, which is still straight up better. Not failing a spell is better than "you failed the spell but didn't use as much mana".


I agree with you that Armored Casting is inferior to Armored Fluidity at the moment. The good news is that I've already been working on some changes to Armored Casting which will make it a more viable option in the future. Stay tuned.

GameMaster Cyraex
Reply
Re: ARMOR Specialization and Opportunity Cost - Reinforcement, Casting 12/20/2016 12:53 PM CST
Maybe something like "ranks of Armored Casting give a %-chance-per-rank of activating your armor's REACTIVE [on getting hit] flares... as PROACTIVE [offensive] flares when you cast (kind of like a flaring runestaff does)..."

.

Hey, I can hope.
Reply
Re: ARMOR Specialization and Opportunity Cost - Reinforcement, Casting 12/21/2016 09:20 AM CST
>> Maybe something like "ranks of Armored Casting give a %-chance-per-rank of activating your armor's REACTIVE [on getting hit] flares... as PROACTIVE [offensive] flares when you cast (kind of like a flaring runestaff does)..."

I like the idea but it doesn't feel very 'paladiny' to me.

-- Robert

A powerful whirlpool is suddenly overtaken by a windy vortex!
Reply
Re: ARMOR Specialization and Opportunity Cost - Reinforcement, Casting 12/21/2016 09:28 AM CST
They wear armor, don't they? They're getting hit, aren't they? The name says both 'armor' [like wearing] and 'casting' [like flaring], doesn't it? They like blasting their enemies with divine vengeance, don't they?

What's not to love? :)
Reply
Re: ARMOR Specialization and Opportunity Cost - Reinforcement, Casting 12/21/2016 07:00 PM CST
By your logic (and my twisted logic) then ARMOR CASTING should give a bonus to Paladin's interviewing candidates to play the lead suit of armor in their new musical 'Oh Armor, Where Art Though?'

Which, by the way, is pretty much on par with the current implementation. :p

-- Robert

A powerful whirlpool is suddenly overtaken by a windy vortex!
Reply
Re: ARMOR Specialization and Opportunity Cost - Reinforcement, Casting 12/21/2016 08:03 PM CST
>>By your logic (and my twisted logic) then ARMOR CASTING should give a bonus to Paladin's interviewing candidates to play the lead suit of armor in their new musical 'Oh Armor, Where Art Though?'

I have an ohb using Fash'lo'nae Paladin. Can I get a bonus for doing so in "Of Mace and Men"?
Reply
Re: ARMOR Specialization and Opportunity Cost - Reinforcement, Casting 12/21/2016 11:18 PM CST
I would LOVE it if we could add 2 armor adjustments on our own armor.

~ The girl behind Debia



You swing an invar-hilted serrated glaes falchion at an Ithzir seer!
Amazingly, the Ithzir seer manages to parry the attack with her staff!
The scintillating Debia swings an invar-hilted serrated glaes falchion at you
Reply
Re: ARMOR Specialization and Opportunity Cost - Reinforcement, Casting 12/22/2016 05:03 PM CST
Glad to hear some changes are in the pipe! I hope Reinforcement gets some love as well (or even a complete replacement).
Reply
Re: ARMOR Specialization and Opportunity Cost - Reinforcement, Casting 01/15/2017 11:13 AM CST
>act glances at Armored Casting, Armor Blessing, then glances awkwardly at Armor Reinforcement.

'@reinforce So, uh, how you doin'?
Reply