Undertrained Hindrance, 1603, and Fluidity 12/02/2015 06:07 AM CST
There was a question about exactly how Faith's Clarity (1603) works and why it works so well on LNet several weeks back, and I believe someone filed a bug about it. The player was missing the concept that Faith's Clarity removes from the base hindrance, but I've been thinking about this for some time. In fact, I had the idea to make some tables for gswiki under a variety of circumstances to show the actual hindrance expected. The problem is, I cannot even calculate the actual values for my own paladin!

He has 150 ranks of Armor Use, a lot of Summoning Lore, and 4 ranks of Armor Fluidity (40% multiplier for reduction). (As for 1603 and the summoning lore, the net result is his base hindrance is dropped by 10% when the spell is active.)

Armor Use..........................| 250 150
Spiritual Lore - Summoning.........| 140 40
Armored Fluidity fluidity 4

He is in full plate, and the calculations for the paladin base work out exactly as expected, as he is fully trained. However, the calculation for MnS, since he is not fully trained, becomes quite tricky.

Here are the hindrances:

No FluidityFluidity
No 160396%88%
160310%2%


Now, the 96% hindrance is a natural result that this is the maximum hindrance full plate will yield, regardless of training.

We can try to reverse engineer what happens in terms of Armor Fluidity. Simply take the achieved hindrance of 88% and divide it by the 60% resulting hindrance after 40% reduction: ~147%. (Some truncation errors may occur.)

"Each point of base hindrance is increased by (base hindrance / 20) per point of Armor Use bonus away from the required amount." (https://gswiki.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Spell_hindrance)

Full plate base hindrance for MnS: 20. (https://gswiki.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Armor)

Armor Use ranks required: 290 (https://gswiki.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Armor_Use)

So it should be easy to calculate, since it's (base hindrance / 20) and base hindrance is 20, meaning the base hindrance in this case is increased by 1 for each rank my character is away from the proper training.

The needed ranks are 290 and my character has 150, meaning he is 140 ranks away, which should add +140 to the base hindrance of 20, which is 160%. However, that is inconsistent with the calculation from armor fluidity of 147%. Perhaps we take the fluidity to the base of 20% (giving 12%), but this then gives (12/20)*140=84, and 84+12=96, which is also not 88.

Now, let's see what happens when we add 1603 to the mix. Without fluidity, the base hindrance of 20, dropped by 10, and the result is that my character is fully trained for armor with 10% hindrance. (That should require 90 armor ranks to achieve, referencing the case of MBP for Paladin Base) So, it's 10%, and the calculation agrees with the table.

It is also possible to calculate the last case. We have to apply the fluidity to the base hindrance first. 20% times 60% is 12%. Now subtract 10% for 1603 from the new "base" of 12% and one gets 2%, agreeing with the table.

What mistake am I making? 1603 seems to work like I'd think, but Armor Fluidity with undertraining I'm missing something.

Whether I can think of any useful way to tabulate this information, considering the extremely large number of variables, is a rather different matter. I think showing the full order-of-operations calculation would be sufficient when explained correctly.



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Re: Undertrained Hindrance, 1603, and Fluidity 12/02/2015 11:08 AM CST
Perhaps fluidity is working as follows:

20% ideal plate hindrance * 0.6 = 12%. Differential 8%.

96% maximal hindrance, minus 8% differential = 88%.

It does allow for the calculation to work, but is it right?



Check out who's dying any time! https://twitter.com/GSIVDeathLog

>Daid: Pretty sure you have a whole big bucket as your penny jar. You never have only two cents. :p
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Re: Undertrained Hindrance, 1603, and Fluidity 04/18/2016 02:13 AM CDT
Ah good this topic is already rolling. My case is a warrior casting elemental and spiritual. Elemental requires 330 ranks, so you need enhancives to hit it and spiritual requires 290.

I'm sitting at 160 right now and the 96% failure rate. I think I can train off 20% and 22% of that respectively, but I've heard 52% is lowest elemental hindrance in plate I think.

The wiki is pretty vague.

What plateau's lower any of the 96% prior to 290 and 330?
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