Announced today the forums will be shut down. If that means forever or sunsetted I'd like time to archive some forums. A lot of the GSwiki historical documents wouldn't have been possible without the forums and the waybackmachine to pull that information, but I do have the CoS, History forums and Wehnimer's Landing forum manually archived to about 2015.
I understand they are outdated. What is the plan for announcement, data archiving beyond the Wiki and discord then how would it impact GM-Aulis as a starting point?
FIREPHOENIX
ACMEGAMER
Re: Forum Shut Down
01/06/2022 04:42 PM CST
I'm stunned, frankly. Discord is a terrible way to convey information or find it. Discord is a fine "chat" platform but that's about it. It annoys me so much that I try to avoid logging in honestly.
I hope that SIMU improves "how" it goes about putting out information via the Wiki then, because scrolling through the various Discord channels is frustrating and tedious. Forums were fine and were easy to find information though I think the Wiki is much better.
As an aside I'd like to point out how frustrating it is to watch staff interacting with some people as they chatter away and ignore questions by other players. It's something I've noted that happens to quite a few people. So since you're closing the forums, I'd suggest a serious conversation with staff about interaction with players on Discord needs to take place.
I feel that they're forgetting the simple customer service concept that even if they reply with "Oh, hey I don't know about that, you might want to try under so and so category", or "Hey that sounds like something you might want to put in an assist with." At least give lip service some lip service to the frustrated player seeking help, advice or information.
Anyhow that's just my feedback and opinion.
(sigh)
RIKKOCHET
Re: Forum Shut Down
01/06/2022 04:51 PM CST
I have to say I'm pretty shocked too.
I wouldn't mind losing THESE forums, in particular, if they're being replaced with something more up to date. But wiki doesn't really support any kind of threaded discussion, and discord is too chat-oriented. They have their places, but neither one lends themselves well to the function of the forums, either.
Wee Sleepy Gnomette's player
From nearby, you hear Vyrshkana yell, "Why I's still drunkifyinged!"
Zicune yells, "Phenomenal cosmic liquir!"
Zicune yells, "Itty bitty drinker!"
I wouldn't mind losing THESE forums, in particular, if they're being replaced with something more up to date. But wiki doesn't really support any kind of threaded discussion, and discord is too chat-oriented. They have their places, but neither one lends themselves well to the function of the forums, either.
Wee Sleepy Gnomette's player
From nearby, you hear Vyrshkana yell, "Why I's still drunkifyinged!"
Zicune yells, "Phenomenal cosmic liquir!"
Zicune yells, "Itty bitty drinker!"
OM1E5GA
Re: Forum Shut Down
01/06/2022 09:21 PM CST
<post 5003 and 5004>
Ditto.... way to cut off those of us that would rather think out our posts instead of the stream-of-consciousness you have to do on Discord. I've already made posts in the past about how this format really is better for feedback and the like, but the current crop of GMs seem to have been dead-set on getting rid of the forums for the last year of more.. so why argue with a brick wall.
I guess it's easier to ignore suggestions and opinions you don't like when you can just say they got lost in the chatter of Discord.
Starchitin, the OG
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
Ditto.... way to cut off those of us that would rather think out our posts instead of the stream-of-consciousness you have to do on Discord. I've already made posts in the past about how this format really is better for feedback and the like, but the current crop of GMs seem to have been dead-set on getting rid of the forums for the last year of more.. so why argue with a brick wall.
I guess it's easier to ignore suggestions and opinions you don't like when you can just say they got lost in the chatter of Discord.
Starchitin, the OG
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
ARCHIGEEK
Re: Forum Shut Down
01/07/2022 12:23 AM CST
>premium start
PREMIUM INFORMATION
As of your last logon, your premium service has been
continuous since 7/11/1997.
That plus another year and a half is how long I've been using these forums, and paying to play Gemstone every single month.
I get it, they're old and kind of clumsy, but it's weak customer service if you're going to just not have a forum and expect other forms of communication such as discord to pick up the slack. No one ever provided better customer service by eliminating communication. Discord is a pretty lousy way to communicate important information to customers.
Does the calendar go away too?
Kerl
PREMIUM INFORMATION
As of your last logon, your premium service has been
continuous since 7/11/1997.
That plus another year and a half is how long I've been using these forums, and paying to play Gemstone every single month.
I get it, they're old and kind of clumsy, but it's weak customer service if you're going to just not have a forum and expect other forms of communication such as discord to pick up the slack. No one ever provided better customer service by eliminating communication. Discord is a pretty lousy way to communicate important information to customers.
Does the calendar go away too?
Kerl
BYZANTINE
Re: Forum Shut Down
01/07/2022 10:00 AM CST
I would not be at all surprised if they get rid of the whole site as it is now. I may be totally wrong about this but I'm beggining to suspect that this isn't really a communication thing or a cost thing but, perhaps, a lack of technical expertise. As in do they have anyone around anymore who knows how to upgrade and maintain these forums or, for that matter, the main sites as they are now? Anyone who's played here in the last decade knows that nothing of significance has been updated on the site in years with the occasional exception of a notice and pic about an upcoming event. If they do have someone who has the know how it could be a case of work load. As in they may be stretched very thin and, comparatively speaking, the forum is low priority to the bottom line. This is all speculation of course but speculation is what you get when you don't, um, communicate with your customers.
HATESHI
Re: Forum Shut Down
01/07/2022 10:14 AM CST
>Does the calendar go away too?--Kerl
For what it's worth, I asked on the official Discord yesterday evening if this change to the forums was going to impact the calendar, and GM Estild said that he didn't think so.
- EK
>You now regard Eorgina with a warm demeanor.
For what it's worth, I asked on the official Discord yesterday evening if this change to the forums was going to impact the calendar, and GM Estild said that he didn't think so.
- EK
>You now regard Eorgina with a warm demeanor.
RARJR
Re: Forum Shut Down
01/12/2022 08:43 AM CST
I don't use discord. Not really looking forward to having to use yet another outside source to keep up and play the game. I wish simu would just buy lnet and maybe even the players corner and make them official parts of the game.
KRAKII
Re: Forum Shut Down
01/12/2022 09:12 AM CST
I wouldn't mind the Player's Corner so much, if I were able to turn OFF all of the crap (read "noise") that it inflicts along with its content. Avatars. Pix. Animations. Sig-lines.
The nicest thing about these fora is the simple fact that the signal-to-noise ratio is so HIGH. It's nearly 100% content, once you scroll down past the "Play.Net Forums" graphic and category/topic info lines.
Compare/contrast versus almost everything I ever scroll through on the PC, which boils down to "the occasional nugget hidden within a gigantic swathe of white noise."
The nicest thing about these fora is the simple fact that the signal-to-noise ratio is so HIGH. It's nearly 100% content, once you scroll down past the "Play.Net Forums" graphic and category/topic info lines.
Compare/contrast versus almost everything I ever scroll through on the PC, which boils down to "the occasional nugget hidden within a gigantic swathe of white noise."
RARJR
Re: Forum Shut Down
01/12/2022 11:12 AM CST
The PC can be just as abusive than lnet if not more. That's why I'd love to see them under official control with some kind of moderation. I suspect some people would flip out though if lnet was considered for consolidation. It could only improve things imo.
ROBLAR
Re: Forum Shut Down
01/12/2022 01:26 PM CST
<I wouldn't mind the Player's Corner so much, if I were able to turn OFF all of the crap (read "noise") that it inflicts along with its content. Avatars. Pix. Animations. Sig-lines.>
You can. Click on Settings and find General Settings on left hand side under My Account. Unclick the first three visible post elements under Thread Display Options to not show sigs, avatars, and images.
You can. Click on Settings and find General Settings on left hand side under My Account. Unclick the first three visible post elements under Thread Display Options to not show sigs, avatars, and images.
KRAKII
Re: Forum Shut Down
01/12/2022 01:42 PM CST
Handy to know, thanks!
("Ignorance" here fueled by "avoidance because of, well, all that stuff.")
("Ignorance" here fueled by "avoidance because of, well, all that stuff.")
CLUNK24963
Re: Forum Shut Down
01/12/2022 08:10 PM CST
>> The nicest thing about these fora is the simple fact that the signal-to-noise ratio is so HIGH. It's nearly 100% content, once you scroll down past the "Play.Net Forums" graphic and category/topic info lines.
+1
Clunk
(Buy your swords at CBD weapons in Zul Logoth.)
KANDOR
Re: Forum Shut Down
01/12/2022 10:20 PM CST
>> The nicest thing about these fora is the simple fact that the signal-to-noise ratio is so HIGH. It's nearly 100% content, once you scroll down past the "Play.Net Forums" graphic and category/topic info lines.
Check out All Forums > DragonRealms > Discussion with DragonRealms Staff and Players > Support - Message Boards. Maybe not everyone's cup of tea, but some interesting info here when the last iteration of the forums were built, some feedback on them and what preceded, and why things are the way they are. It won't make any difference to some folks, but might be of interest to others.
Check out All Forums > DragonRealms > Discussion with DragonRealms Staff and Players > Support - Message Boards. Maybe not everyone's cup of tea, but some interesting info here when the last iteration of the forums were built, some feedback on them and what preceded, and why things are the way they are. It won't make any difference to some folks, but might be of interest to others.
JEKYL
Re: Forum Shut Down
01/13/2022 05:54 PM CST
<<Maybe not everyone's cup of tea, but some interesting info here when the last iteration of the forums were built, some feedback on them and what preceded, and why things are the way they are. It won't make any difference to some folks, but might be of interest to others.>>
Thanks for pointing this out, I hadn't even noticed the lack of HTTPs across the various parts of the site. Ha.
But I guess I still don't understand the impetus to shut down the forums entirely, unless it's purely financial. Is it not viable set up one of the many free or cheap forum platforms out there to be white labeled? Even if not doing a full migration of the existing forums, why not just re-create the bones and let them grow again?
Now, admittedly my specific knowledge of website structure is limited, but my company has consulted on dozens of site migrations over the past decade, and while they can be a pain, it's far from insurmountable, either as a process or a financial endeavor. I suppose I'm missing some crucial piece(s) of knowledge about the back end (and I'm salty about the impending loss of this space), but it really does feel like a kick in the teeth for no reason other than someone's bottom line.
Thanks for pointing this out, I hadn't even noticed the lack of HTTPs across the various parts of the site. Ha.
But I guess I still don't understand the impetus to shut down the forums entirely, unless it's purely financial. Is it not viable set up one of the many free or cheap forum platforms out there to be white labeled? Even if not doing a full migration of the existing forums, why not just re-create the bones and let them grow again?
Now, admittedly my specific knowledge of website structure is limited, but my company has consulted on dozens of site migrations over the past decade, and while they can be a pain, it's far from insurmountable, either as a process or a financial endeavor. I suppose I'm missing some crucial piece(s) of knowledge about the back end (and I'm salty about the impending loss of this space), but it really does feel like a kick in the teeth for no reason other than someone's bottom line.
CLUNK24963
Re: Forum Shut Down
01/15/2022 09:25 AM CST
>>Thanks for pointing this out, I hadn't even noticed the lack of HTTPs across the various parts of the site. Ha
I had noted it, but - since this is a game site ... I shrugged and kept using.
Clunk
(Buy your swords at CBD weapons in Zul Logoth.)
FIREPHOENIX
Re: Forum Shut Down
01/17/2022 11:53 PM CST
The site delay and lack of updates with a shift to the GSwiki along with anachrocy were noted concerns.
Information isn't that hard when its current and fortunately folks saw this when the Wiki became the games main source of archiving.
Its just a matter of historical data. Most of my work was researching non-gemstone sites and that was a problem then but the occasional tidbit from a forum or link helped piece the puzzle together.
I guess in the end its up to the players anyways. We'll just be more urgent. That isnt a new problem and if your community is healthy or not will dictate what gets written down and saved. Otherwise, it becomes dust as anything else.
I'd challenge the staff and players accordingly, but I suppose the question remains what will remain accessable and what do we need to mad dash grab before its closed?
Go ahead and shut them down though. The forums actually weren't the point. It was what the players grabbed to save. That has been true since day 1.
Information isn't that hard when its current and fortunately folks saw this when the Wiki became the games main source of archiving.
Its just a matter of historical data. Most of my work was researching non-gemstone sites and that was a problem then but the occasional tidbit from a forum or link helped piece the puzzle together.
I guess in the end its up to the players anyways. We'll just be more urgent. That isnt a new problem and if your community is healthy or not will dictate what gets written down and saved. Otherwise, it becomes dust as anything else.
I'd challenge the staff and players accordingly, but I suppose the question remains what will remain accessable and what do we need to mad dash grab before its closed?
Go ahead and shut them down though. The forums actually weren't the point. It was what the players grabbed to save. That has been true since day 1.
KESS2
Re: Forum Shut Down
01/22/2022 10:44 AM CST
why would simu buy the PC if they're dead set on getting out of forums? The PC is an old forum with history and stories of its own, simu buying it to bleach it of all personality would be really sad.
They don't like forums because negative feedback sticks. In a discord it'll just be washed away by chatter.
And I too see many people being ignored in discord while some were being answered by GMs. I don't want to get out the tin foil hat but it's pretty obvious there are some the staff don't want to ignore, meaning the rest (non whales probably) don't matter.
They don't like forums because negative feedback sticks. In a discord it'll just be washed away by chatter.
And I too see many people being ignored in discord while some were being answered by GMs. I don't want to get out the tin foil hat but it's pretty obvious there are some the staff don't want to ignore, meaning the rest (non whales probably) don't matter.
KRAKII
Re: Forum Shut Down
01/22/2022 12:24 PM CST
Alternatively, the person doing the answering was actually capable of (both knowledge, authority, and right/permission to) making the answer to personX, but not to personY.
Just saying.
It's not always a conspiracy.
Just saying.
It's not always a conspiracy.
ACMEGAMER
Re: Forum Shut Down
01/22/2022 10:08 PM CST
| Alternatively, the person doing the answering was actually capable of (both knowledge, authority, and right/permission to) making the answer to personX, but not to personY. |
| Just saying. |
| It's not always a conspiracy. |
| Robert/Krakii |
It's about perception Robert and after a while when you repeatedly see legitimate questions ignored it's easy to see how some might think that they're being ignored. Even if the NIR doesn't know the answer, it's good policy to reply and say, "hey I don't know about this situation but I'll drop a line in the right ears about it. Or hey you should put in an assist about that.
This would go a long way in making a paying customer in a niche game that charges a premium feel better and that they're not being ignored. There are some NIR that are quite active in various Discord categories and it does feel like after a while that they favor chattering away with some and ignoring others.
NIR often appear to want to leave it to other players to play customer service rep with those who post asking for help. That's BS. Anyhow, I've decided to play on my terms and ignore the hell that is Discord or Lich and make my way as well as I can from the rather incomplete data on the Wiki when I need to find something. Or just live with the lack of information until at some time if ever I stumble across it.
KRAKII
Re: Forum Shut Down
01/23/2022 06:13 AM CST
For what it's worth, the GSWiki gets updated a lot. :)
FIREPHOENIX
Re: Forum Shut Down
07/19/2022 12:22 AM CDT
Forums are near dead, but Discord is a poor replacement. The noise is unsurmountable and not a discussion. I stand by my original statement on this.
-Geijon
-Geijon
BURTNETTJ
Re: Forum Shut Down
07/19/2022 01:08 AM CDT
>>Forums are near dead, but Discord is a poor replacement. The noise is unsurmountable and not a discussion.
Agreed.
Agreed.
KRAKII
Re: Forum Shut Down
07/19/2022 09:31 AM CDT
They are making headway: I saw a template being used for a couple of "system suggestions" (they have their own Category) on the GSWiki.
Not sure where we will have threads of "and how the hell do I do this?!?!" and general conversations, but things are being addressed.
Not sure where we will have threads of "and how the hell do I do this?!?!" and general conversations, but things are being addressed.
LUXELLE
Re: Forum Shut Down
07/19/2022 11:37 AM CDT
>They are making headway: I saw a template being used for a couple of "system suggestions" (they have their own Category) on the GSWiki.
I think this is sort of the opposite of headway! Asking people to learn markup for a wiki as customer communication is not going to be effective or endearing. It will further erode the number of voices able to give input.
--
ESP TUNE TOWNCRIER or ;tune towncrier
Web: http://gstowncrier.com/
Daily Email: gstowncrier.com/subscribe/
gstowncrier.com/where-to-find-the-towncrier/
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P.S. Help Wanted, Inquire Within
I think this is sort of the opposite of headway! Asking people to learn markup for a wiki as customer communication is not going to be effective or endearing. It will further erode the number of voices able to give input.
--
ESP TUNE TOWNCRIER or ;tune towncrier
Web: http://gstowncrier.com/
Daily Email: gstowncrier.com/subscribe/
gstowncrier.com/where-to-find-the-towncrier/
Send in news: https://bit.ly/2ISsz2l
P.S. Help Wanted, Inquire Within
KRAKII
Re: Forum Shut Down
07/19/2022 02:09 PM CDT
I like it a damn sight more "fill in an entry form (that no-one else can see)", like they changed to for DR update requests. Some times one person's suggestion will spark someone else, and I like being able to benefit from that.
LUXELLE
Re: Forum Shut Down
07/19/2022 04:51 PM CDT
>Some times one person's suggestion will spark someone else, and I like being able to benefit from that.
VERY True. The value of community is huge.
--
ESP TUNE TOWNCRIER or ;tune towncrier
Web: http://gstowncrier.com/
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VERY True. The value of community is huge.
--
ESP TUNE TOWNCRIER or ;tune towncrier
Web: http://gstowncrier.com/
Daily Email: gstowncrier.com/subscribe/
gstowncrier.com/where-to-find-the-towncrier/
Send in news: https://bit.ly/2ISsz2l
P.S. Help Wanted, Inquire Within
CLUNK24963
Re: Forum Shut Down
07/19/2022 08:09 PM CDT
I dunno, but I think the forums here worked pretty good.
Was there anyone these forums did not work for?
Is it the seductiveness of being with the latest and greatest that attracts people to discord?
(hmmm ... interpret the words differently and that question can be applied to modern politics too)
Clunk
(Buy your swords at CBD weapons in Zul Logoth.)
PEREGRINEFALCON
Re: Forum Shut Down
07/20/2022 06:53 PM CDT
>> I dunno, but I think the forums here worked pretty good.
Agreed.
>> Was there anyone these forums did not work for?
The people that didn't use them?
-- Robert
From the pitch of the vibration you determine that the purpose of the shield is as a shield.
Agreed.
>> Was there anyone these forums did not work for?
The people that didn't use them?
-- Robert
From the pitch of the vibration you determine that the purpose of the shield is as a shield.
ALLENM20
Re: Forum Shut Down
07/24/2022 05:28 AM CDT
Forums without a search function don't function very well. I like Discord and the wiki far better because it is so easy to search for information from Gamemasters like Estild and Naijin; I can verify a piece of information from a year ago within a few seconds unlike these forums.
Discord at least gives the appearance of people actually playing the game based on the level of activity and the member list.
Discord at least gives the appearance of people actually playing the game based on the level of activity and the member list.
| As I gaze over the horizon, the wind tugs at my cloak and whispers, "Adventure" in my ear. |
| A squeaky halfling nearby asks, "Why you playing with orcs heads and troll rearends?!" |
WELCHA
Re: Forum Shut Down
07/24/2022 03:25 PM CDT
Discord is also basically useless for trying to "Catch up" from a break. In my case, about 2 months of a break from doing an international move. I can catch up on the forum due to the significantly lower signal-noise ratio. If I don't know what I missed, it's impossible to sort through discord for the information.
That said, talking to a few specific people in discord, I am still missing a lot catching up on the forums because they've been abandoned.
- Andreas
That said, talking to a few specific people in discord, I am still missing a lot catching up on the forums because they've been abandoned.
- Andreas
LUXELLE
Re: Forum Shut Down
07/24/2022 04:34 PM CDT
Catch up with the news at the TownCrier! We archive every headline at our web site, and spotlight news, updates, and announcements from the Forums, Discord, and from player run organizations all in one place. And keep them there.
Use News from the menu and select Daily News Headlines to view them, LIFO order:
https://gstowncrier.com/
Then you can click through on the articles you want to read more on, or move on. I'm guessing there are close to a couple hundred over the past 2 months.
--
ESP TUNE TOWNCRIER or ;tune towncrier
Web: http://gstowncrier.com/
Daily Email: gstowncrier.com/subscribe/
gstowncrier.com/where-to-find-the-towncrier/
Send in news: https://bit.ly/2ISsz2l
P.S. Help Wanted, Inquire Within
Use News from the menu and select Daily News Headlines to view them, LIFO order:
https://gstowncrier.com/
Then you can click through on the articles you want to read more on, or move on. I'm guessing there are close to a couple hundred over the past 2 months.
--
ESP TUNE TOWNCRIER or ;tune towncrier
Web: http://gstowncrier.com/
Daily Email: gstowncrier.com/subscribe/
gstowncrier.com/where-to-find-the-towncrier/
Send in news: https://bit.ly/2ISsz2l
P.S. Help Wanted, Inquire Within
ALLENM20
Re: Forum Shut Down
07/24/2022 04:36 PM CDT
It's a little hidden on the GS Wiki Homepage but there is a link to the change log. https://gswiki.play.net/Category:Changelog
For most players, this is the bulk of information to catch up on from an absence.
The announcements section in Discord is the same as the announcements on the forums IMO but without the triplicate nature of the forums where everything is cross-posted into other folders. But seriously, if you want to know what the GMs are saying the forums simply do not have any features that help you see if GMs responded to a post.
I can do a quick search of Discord in a few seconds that pulls all of Wyrom's comments which is really useful around the Duskruin paid event.
For most players, this is the bulk of information to catch up on from an absence.
The announcements section in Discord is the same as the announcements on the forums IMO but without the triplicate nature of the forums where everything is cross-posted into other folders. But seriously, if you want to know what the GMs are saying the forums simply do not have any features that help you see if GMs responded to a post.
I can do a quick search of Discord in a few seconds that pulls all of Wyrom's comments which is really useful around the Duskruin paid event.
| As I gaze over the horizon, the wind tugs at my cloak and whispers, "Adventure" in my ear. |
| A squeaky halfling nearby asks, "Why you playing with orcs heads and troll rearends?!" |
KRAKII
Re: Forum Shut Down
07/25/2022 09:08 AM CDT
What I usually do with the Boards is open the Categories that I want to see, then spawn new tabs for each of their sub-folders (Topics) that I want to get caught up on.
Then I go to the boxes at the top right, and put in
From <"1" for small topics, or "newest minus a couple thousand" for big ones>,
To (blank == "to most current message"), and
By "GS4-%" == "all GM messages", or "SIMU-%" == "all Wyrom messages", or "krakii" for all sensible & well-thought messages.
That way I see them in chrono order WITHIN THAT TOPIC, so that I only have to wrap my brain around THAT TOPIC at that time.
As opposed to "combat system cleric wizard town new hunting area combat system combat system fluffy clothing armor wizard cleric fighter new town new boats new ocean" stream of consciousness announcement messages.
Then I go to the boxes at the top right, and put in
From <"1" for small topics, or "newest minus a couple thousand" for big ones>,
To (blank == "to most current message"), and
By "GS4-%" == "all GM messages", or "SIMU-%" == "all Wyrom messages", or "krakii" for all sensible & well-thought messages.
That way I see them in chrono order WITHIN THAT TOPIC, so that I only have to wrap my brain around THAT TOPIC at that time.
As opposed to "combat system cleric wizard town new hunting area combat system combat system fluffy clothing armor wizard cleric fighter new town new boats new ocean" stream of consciousness announcement messages.
