I brought this up a few months ago, but the 2 interview process has become an impediment. We have two members looking to join who appear by all accounts to be active roleplayers within the community and who have chosen us, but the 2 interview and induction process has become dated.
While Sylvine and I intended to stem the flow of people who joined for Lockers back in 1998 and Eahlstan got them passed it doesn't serve our membership in 2018 for efficiency or growing the community.
What do you all expect from a member and how can we remain a vital asset to the gaming community in Wehnimer's Landing in 2018 and what does joining look like under those circumstances?
Appreciate the feedback.
-Geijon
FIREPHOENIX
DWARFEN
Re: 2018 Membership Requirements
09/09/2018 09:23 PM CDT
Returning the the game in 2018, and once having had a Phoenix member character pre-1998... I was completely turned off by the process, opting instead to seek . Many fond memories of hanging out in the library and having fun with Toren, Erokose, Lauraellen, Hyssopp, Rinkrat, Kamul, and Skarlett.
But, being a much more "Casual Player" type in my older age, I soon realised when I began the process of joining with a new character, that the dedicated time and depth of history knowledge that is required in order to be a member of House of the Rising Phoenix in the modern era was pretty intense and off-putting. Which might very well be the main goal of the system in limiting the membership to savants only. ::shrug::
It's okay not fitting the mould of the modern House of the Rising Phoenix, but I still get to retain my old memories of House of the Rising Phoenix from yesteryear. =D
But, being a much more "Casual Player" type in my older age, I soon realised when I began the process of joining with a new character, that the dedicated time and depth of history knowledge that is required in order to be a member of House of the Rising Phoenix in the modern era was pretty intense and off-putting. Which might very well be the main goal of the system in limiting the membership to savants only. ::shrug::
It's okay not fitting the mould of the modern House of the Rising Phoenix, but I still get to retain my old memories of House of the Rising Phoenix from yesteryear. =D
KANDOR
Re: 2018 Membership Requirements
09/17/2018 09:50 PM CDT
>I brought this up a few months ago, but the 2 interview process has become an impediment. We have two members looking to join who appear by all accounts to be active roleplayers within the community and who have chosen us, but the 2 interview and induction process has become dated.
>
>While Sylvine and I intended to stem the flow of people who joined for Lockers back in 1998 and Eahlstan got them passed it doesn't serve our membership in 2018 for efficiency or growing the community.
>
>What do you all expect from a member and how can we remain a vital asset to the gaming community in Wehnimer's Landing in 2018 and what does joining look like under those circumstances?
I've avoided replying to this up til now because I knew this was going to be a rambling sort of OOC response. Apologies in advance. Read the 3rd paragraph below for a suggestion for Phoenix; the rest is more a general review of the CHE/MHO system.
One of the first CHE-related things I noticed when I returned to the game a few years back was the MHO system has more or less overwhelmed the CHE system. Even though we have more players in the game, we still don't have enough active players to sufficiently staff AND represent all the CHEs as they were before MHO/PROs were first introduced. Many of the CHEs that still have interview/racial/attitude/etc. prerequisites seem just have a few active officers, a few inactive officers, and a handful of active members (though some are very colorful). MHOs can be created and easily align (or be resurrected and realigned) to a specific player vision, where CHEs are harder to change. Some players are officers in a CHE and also in an MHO, and I'd guess there are players who are splitting their time across accounts as different CHE officers. There's no way this is sustainable. Combining them, and especially putting more MHO activity requirements on CHEs, is something that should eventually be done. It will require players to put their best foot forward for what they believe in. This applies to ALL CHEs, though
For House Phoenix, specifically, the interview process is more elaborate now than the first time I joined, but it just took a little reading, and making an appointment time (which is arguably a step above the norm for a casual player, and more difficult for someone with family commitments). Interviews and prerequisites can be difficult for players. The days of sitting on a node and chatting and relaxing are still not back. Switching the Gift of Lumnis from a multiplier was good, but people still run bounties continuously saturated for the 500 exp bonus. (F2P above 30 rely on this, in fact.) Offline experience lets people just log in, hunt, and log out again. The pacing is much faster than what it was in the 90s. These are systemic issues, though, and nothing I anticipate House Phoenix could fix.
The 2-3(ish) houses that have weekly or semi-weekly open houses and inductions with no special requirements seem to have most of the characters in the game. I don't think membership should be opened, but simplifying it back to a single interview may be a reasonable first step. I can't find a log anymore but I seem to remember Waldo and Geoff used to both sit at the entrance and one of them would take one or two characters aside for a short tour through the nearby neighborhoods (including the temple, and outside Cholgar's for a Discussion) and parts of the house (especially the observatory and L'Green's room) while the other talked to other arrivals. However, at that point they were in the game for hours at a time in the evenings, and induction times were announced over the amunet instead of scheduled in advance. I don't think CHEs had annual activity requirements back then. Having two or more accounts used to be pretty expensive, too, so most characters were "mains." I can't remember if getting another member to vouch for our us was part of the process. Really, officers for both CHE/MHOs probably should have main and solo commitment from the player. No other MHO; no GH/GM duties; no officers on other accounts or other characters. People who enjoy a lot of time in the game as the character they are playing. People who want to represent the CHE first. Finding people like that is really hard. Usually someone new comes in with a lot of energy and ideas, and burns out on it after a few months. There were only 3 officers back then. When the 3 junior officer spots were added, I saw this as a way to sorta combat the burnout. That aside, something like this would conceivably only take a couple hours at a time. A bit longer than just a tour of the house, with some Q&A.
Polarity and conflict seems to help in games. Lord Lythe's madness made for a great story. Single-minded characters create stories, for better or worse, by standing true to their ideals. I'll often look for single-minded characters to interact with, because complexity is boring and everyday. I find it disappointing to see characters who are members of a house and 3+ MHOs because it creates character fragmentation (or the perception of the same). Instead of representing their CHE first they represent their MHO first, because it has more complicated requirements, more to lose, and they are often more closely responsible for it. Maybe forcing people to align to one of them wouldn't be a bad thing. I know many players won't agree with this. Maybe I'm just over-thinking it.
>
>While Sylvine and I intended to stem the flow of people who joined for Lockers back in 1998 and Eahlstan got them passed it doesn't serve our membership in 2018 for efficiency or growing the community.
>
>What do you all expect from a member and how can we remain a vital asset to the gaming community in Wehnimer's Landing in 2018 and what does joining look like under those circumstances?
I've avoided replying to this up til now because I knew this was going to be a rambling sort of OOC response. Apologies in advance. Read the 3rd paragraph below for a suggestion for Phoenix; the rest is more a general review of the CHE/MHO system.
One of the first CHE-related things I noticed when I returned to the game a few years back was the MHO system has more or less overwhelmed the CHE system. Even though we have more players in the game, we still don't have enough active players to sufficiently staff AND represent all the CHEs as they were before MHO/PROs were first introduced. Many of the CHEs that still have interview/racial/attitude/etc. prerequisites seem just have a few active officers, a few inactive officers, and a handful of active members (though some are very colorful). MHOs can be created and easily align (or be resurrected and realigned) to a specific player vision, where CHEs are harder to change. Some players are officers in a CHE and also in an MHO, and I'd guess there are players who are splitting their time across accounts as different CHE officers. There's no way this is sustainable. Combining them, and especially putting more MHO activity requirements on CHEs, is something that should eventually be done. It will require players to put their best foot forward for what they believe in. This applies to ALL CHEs, though
For House Phoenix, specifically, the interview process is more elaborate now than the first time I joined, but it just took a little reading, and making an appointment time (which is arguably a step above the norm for a casual player, and more difficult for someone with family commitments). Interviews and prerequisites can be difficult for players. The days of sitting on a node and chatting and relaxing are still not back. Switching the Gift of Lumnis from a multiplier was good, but people still run bounties continuously saturated for the 500 exp bonus. (F2P above 30 rely on this, in fact.) Offline experience lets people just log in, hunt, and log out again. The pacing is much faster than what it was in the 90s. These are systemic issues, though, and nothing I anticipate House Phoenix could fix.
The 2-3(ish) houses that have weekly or semi-weekly open houses and inductions with no special requirements seem to have most of the characters in the game. I don't think membership should be opened, but simplifying it back to a single interview may be a reasonable first step. I can't find a log anymore but I seem to remember Waldo and Geoff used to both sit at the entrance and one of them would take one or two characters aside for a short tour through the nearby neighborhoods (including the temple, and outside Cholgar's for a Discussion) and parts of the house (especially the observatory and L'Green's room) while the other talked to other arrivals. However, at that point they were in the game for hours at a time in the evenings, and induction times were announced over the amunet instead of scheduled in advance. I don't think CHEs had annual activity requirements back then. Having two or more accounts used to be pretty expensive, too, so most characters were "mains." I can't remember if getting another member to vouch for our us was part of the process. Really, officers for both CHE/MHOs probably should have main and solo commitment from the player. No other MHO; no GH/GM duties; no officers on other accounts or other characters. People who enjoy a lot of time in the game as the character they are playing. People who want to represent the CHE first. Finding people like that is really hard. Usually someone new comes in with a lot of energy and ideas, and burns out on it after a few months. There were only 3 officers back then. When the 3 junior officer spots were added, I saw this as a way to sorta combat the burnout. That aside, something like this would conceivably only take a couple hours at a time. A bit longer than just a tour of the house, with some Q&A.
Polarity and conflict seems to help in games. Lord Lythe's madness made for a great story. Single-minded characters create stories, for better or worse, by standing true to their ideals. I'll often look for single-minded characters to interact with, because complexity is boring and everyday. I find it disappointing to see characters who are members of a house and 3+ MHOs because it creates character fragmentation (or the perception of the same). Instead of representing their CHE first they represent their MHO first, because it has more complicated requirements, more to lose, and they are often more closely responsible for it. Maybe forcing people to align to one of them wouldn't be a bad thing. I know many players won't agree with this. Maybe I'm just over-thinking it.
AVAIA
Re: 2018 Membership Requirements
09/18/2018 09:40 AM CDT
Completely an outsider to this conversation, but I think I am going to steal most of your first paragraph, KANDOR, and throw it into Interhouse discussion. You articulated very well parts of something that has been on my mind, lately.
Avaia, player of
Avaia, player of
FIREPHOENIX
Re: 2018 Membership Requirements
11/23/2019 01:00 PM CST
In 2002 we added joining requirements for interviews because we were swelling our ranks as a Locker House along with Brigatta and Silvergate Inn. I'd say it was intentional, but I'm also sorry that the two interviews were off-putting.
I too have fond memories of those players.
-Geijon
I too have fond memories of those players.
-Geijon
