Upcoming sorcerer/MnS/MjS reviews: your feedback wanted! 01/04/2021 01:53 PM CST
I know there are a lot of people who don't follow Discord and there are even some people who don't follow the TownCrier, so I wanted to share this here for the forum faithful:



Sorcerers are the next profession up for review: https://discordapp.com/channels/226045346399256576/532373273816858636/792457237016739850

Estild12/26/2020
Sorcerers are getting reviewed next.


Rolfard started a player-run sorcerer document last year (post-711 nerf, even before we knew sorcerers would be up for review) collecting ideas, opinions, and all things sorcerer, which you can contribute to here:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/15fmKMovyPSq1zRLymIX3yMuPaQOXOP_sHPsIqlzsdDY/edit?ts=5f6b919b



Additionally, a review of the Minor Spiritual and Major Spiritual circles is at least on the table as a possibility: https://discordapp.com/channels/226045346399256576/532373273816858636/795123793093328896

Estild01/02/2021
I'd very much like to review the 100s and 200s. If there are ideas and someone wants to compile a list of suggestions, it would be a top priority for me.


So I copied Rolfard's formatting and you can contribute to that feedback document here:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1GGOMXR108IQFPsgOSeLixkIHcYUaCqpIYde8vlPOEZ4/edit





If anything out of sorcerers, Minor Spiritual, and Major Spiritual are important to your GS experience, please consider making your voices heard--before changes happen rather than after!



https://gswiki.play.net/Leafiara_(prime)
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Re: Upcoming sorcerer/MnS/MjS reviews: your feedback wanted! 01/04/2021 01:56 PM CST
>>please consider making your voices heard--before changes happen rather than after!

But. . . but. . .

"That is not the way."

Doug
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Re: Upcoming sorcerer/MnS/MjS reviews: your feedback wanted! 01/05/2021 11:23 AM CST
One of my favorite things about a couple of the MnS spells -- 111/Fire Spirit and 118/Web -- is how they interact with other spells in the same or different spell circles. For example, casting 615/Call Swarm after casting Web reinforces the Web due to the introduction of insects (food for the spiders). Casting 111 sets the web on fire (and burns up any insects created by 615). I'd love to see more interrelation between spells, both in and outside of just a single spell circle that follow this concept as ways to enhance the flavor of magic use.

- EK

>You now regard Eorgina with a warm demeanor.
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Re: Upcoming sorcerer/MnS/MjS reviews: your feedback wanted! 01/05/2021 12:17 PM CST
<Casting 111 sets the web on fire (and burns up any insects created by 615).>

Gold wands and fire flares will do this as well... so will heat flares from energy weapons (I'm not sure if those are just fire flares with special messaging or a thing of their own).

Starchitin, the OG

A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
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Re: Upcoming sorcerer/MnS/MjS reviews: your feedback wanted! 01/05/2021 01:00 PM CST
My list was not all-inclusive - it was an example of how 100s spells work with others. :)

- EK

>You now regard Eorgina with a warm demeanor.
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Re: Upcoming sorcerer/MnS/MjS reviews: your feedback wanted! 01/05/2021 04:07 PM CST

I think the the spiritual bolts are great but I'd also like to see access to elemental Fire, Ice, Lightning and Earth bolts, they're supposed to be hybrids. I've always wanted to play a proper spiritual/elemental hybrid in GS like the D&D witch that access to both. Current Sorcerer spells and lore are too heavily focused towards evil for my liking, if Necromancy and Demonology is your thing then fine but I'd like too see different viable paths with spiritual and elemental lore.
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Re: Upcoming sorcerer/MnS/MjS reviews: your feedback wanted! 01/05/2021 04:45 PM CST
I know this is outside the realm of normal, but I'd like to see something in either the MnS or Sorc spell list (Sorc Base would be best) that made the life of a weapon using sorcerer somewhat more viable. As it stands, all the pures are somewhat viable as weapon users, particularly hasted warmages, but even Warpaths and Martial Clerics with the significant AS boosting spells in their base lists. Nothing in the Sorc Base list, though, is particularly useful for a weapon swinging sorc.

And yes, I know this is possible, I took a weapon swinging sorc from level 0 all the way through 16.5m experience (in plat), so it is viabale, but it was a difficult path, much more difficult than a warmage would have been. And, I did this while abusing haste imbeds and haste edibles, before the changes (nerfs) to haste.

I don't know what the answer is, but I'd prefer something other than just an AS boost, although that would be nice, as well.
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Re: Upcoming sorcerer/MnS/MjS reviews: your feedback wanted! 01/05/2021 05:34 PM CST
Heh, war clerics are nowhere near the level of warpaths. The boosting spells are:

Sorcerers: +50 from 425
50 total

Clerics: +15 from 211, +25 from 215 (before Blessing lore), +15 from 307
55 total, but likely Blessings lore takes it to 61 or 63 for respectively the full chrism or group 219 breakpoints
(realistic lore amount

Wizards: +50 from 425, +15 from 509 (before Earth lore), +10 from 902
75 total, but likely Earth lore takes it to 83 for two 950 casts per minute

Empaths: +15 from 211, +25 from 215 (before Blessing lore), +15 from 1109, +55 from 1130
110 total, but likely Blessings lore takes it to 116, 118, or 122 for respectively the 1107 full stamina restore, group 219 and ability to auto-heal any rank 2 scar, or the ability to auto-heal any rank 3 scar




All of this just to say that I'm always fascinated by how often clerics and empaths are looked at as if they're basically the same thing. Even a good chunk of my document has somehow turned into a battlefield over that very issue. (And I didn't even start it this time!)



https://gswiki.play.net/Leafiara_(prime)
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Re: Upcoming sorcerer/MnS/MjS reviews: your feedback wanted! 01/05/2021 06:33 PM CST
<I don't know what the answer is, but I'd prefer something other than just an AS boost, although that would be nice, as well.>

I've come to see sorcerers as the glass cannon's of GS, even if the evolution of them since I started playing GS has pretty much been the reverse of empaths.

I'd think that all their disablers and being able to Curse 50 DS away would pretty much make up for the lack of AS boosters for a swinging sorcerer... but the lack of survivability in aggressive stances would be what made them...erm...challenging to play.

I'm not sure I want to see them buffing sorcerer defenses until NIR figures out it's been 20 years since they were even a contender for the most OP profession in the game. It'll just give them more of a reason to nerf more offensive spells.


Starchitin, the OG

A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
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Re: Upcoming sorcerer/MnS/MjS reviews: your feedback wanted! 01/05/2021 08:20 PM CST
Lack of survivability?

Bah, just wear brig! My capped warcerer(my term of choice ) in plat does, although I haven't played him in 5 years.

And I admit, that's not really a realistic choice.
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Re: Upcoming sorcerer/MnS/MjS reviews: your feedback wanted! 01/05/2021 08:21 PM CST
Yeah, the AS, combined with the 3x in PF, is really over the top for warpaths.
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Re: Upcoming sorcerer/MnS/MjS reviews: your feedback wanted! 01/05/2021 09:22 PM CST
I'm 2x in PF on my warpath and went over that to around 2.5x in the past, and didn't notice much difference in maneuver defense. Actually took it back down to 2x in the end. Due to the recent SMRv2 update for combat maneuvers, I tested out the effect of going from 2x to 3x PF on the test server, and found out it adds only an extra 4 to 4.5 points worth of defense to my maneuver defense rolls. Since my warpath is also currently only .5x in perception, the bonus from going 3x PF might end up even lower when I raise my perception up to 1x due to the way diminishing returns is calculated in this new system (all defensive skills being combined in a single bucket when it comes to how DR is applied).

The defensive benefit of 3x PF has always felt like something that's way overblown to me, and at least in this new system I've managed to confirm it for myself through testing.

To get back on topic, dev should look at the issue of melee pure builds. There's clearly a demand for them from a fair sized part of the player base looking at the feedback in the document, and considering there's no plans for new classes in the future, letting the existing classes being more flexible and having more alternative builds is a good way to add a lot of longevity to the game.
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Re: Upcoming sorcerer/MnS/MjS reviews: your feedback wanted! 01/05/2021 09:31 PM CST
>Wizards: +50 from 425, +15 from 509 (before Earth lore), +10 from 902
>75 total, but likely Earth lore takes it to 83 for two 950 casts per minute

Don't forget that 902 scales with EL:E, just like 509 does.
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Re: Upcoming sorcerer/MnS/MjS reviews: your feedback wanted! 01/05/2021 10:32 PM CST
>he defensive benefit of 3x PF has always felt like something that's way overblown to me, and at least in this new system I've managed to confirm it for myself through testing.

Still beats the heck out of the 1x other pures have.
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Re: Upcoming sorcerer/MnS/MjS reviews: your feedback wanted! 01/05/2021 10:48 PM CST
>Still beats the heck out of the 1x other pures have.

Heh, not for clerics though.
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Re: Upcoming sorcerer/MnS/MjS reviews: your feedback wanted! 01/06/2021 01:28 AM CST
>Don't forget that 902 scales with EL:E, just like 509 does.

*stares at the wiki page*

Every time. Every single time I think I can't love wizards any more than I do, I learn something like this.

Thanks for the heads up!




https://gswiki.play.net/Leafiara_(prime)
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Re: Upcoming sorcerer/MnS/MjS reviews: your feedback wanted! 01/06/2021 02:17 AM CST
In my dream world there would be multiple viable paths like unarmed touch spells, spells that are designed to activate on weapon contact, runestaff/sword dual wielding, meaningful defensive builds that aren't all about alpha striking but instead using enemy aggression against them. Make more interesting ways of getting the job done, so we can have less retreads of the debate about who should have the biggest AS.
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Re: Upcoming sorcerer/MnS/MjS reviews: your feedback wanted! 01/06/2021 03:40 AM CST


It's stupid to include 902. Anyone can max enhancives.
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Re: Upcoming sorcerer/MnS/MjS reviews: your feedback wanted! 06/03/2021 12:13 PM CDT
An idea for 740.

Expand the ability to use the chalkess (gold ring) version of the spell to any location listed on the currently open page of the Sorcerer's planar shift book. The syntax could be "incant 740 3" or "incant shift 3" for the 3rd slot in the open page of the planar shift book. There should be no requirement to hold the book when incanting, as long as it is in a readable location, such as the Sorcerer's backpack.

I guarantee that this change would be very popular.
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