>> With the new recovery mechanics things are somewhat better in that being disarmed in a hunt is not a guarantee of losing valuable gear, but it’s still a possibility and it’s still a pain recovering gear.

I don't believe there is any chance of losing your ranged weapon any longer unless you choose not to recover it. Assuming you want it back, you can be reunited with your disarmed weapon 100% of the time.

-- Robert

>channel my maul
You channel at a hefty mithril maul.
You make an astoundingly inept attempt! Success!

I hate absolutely everything about these proposed changes.

My ranged ranger is one of the slowest characters I have for hunting. Ranged is not OP and nerfing it is a terrible idea that will make my character way less enjoyable.

The idea of making arrows inherently disposable is terrible. Fletching is tedious enough already and I don't want to do it more than I already do. This also seems to be a change that benefits script hunters more than people who are actually at the keyboard.

>> The idea of making arrows inherently disposable is terrible. Fletching is tedious enough already and I don't want to do it more than I already do.

Observation: They did indicate that fletching would take considerably less time with these updates so you may find you are spending less, not more, time with the updated system.

To keep the updates in line with current life of arrow with the new disposable arrow system, maybe for every fletched arrow add to the arrow pack, there is a multiplier applied to account for the reusability of arrows today. e.g. fletch 20 arrows, add them to your pack, and now you have +100 charges added to get the fletched arrow bonus. I don't know the correct multiplier or ratio, but the point being that at some point you wouldn't necessarily be losing your mechanical benefit any earlier under the new system than under the old system where you still lose your arrows over time.

-- Robert

>> A halfling magistrate picks up a small rock and throws it at a half-elven bandit in a valiant effort to subdue him.

>>To keep the updates in line with current life of arrow with the new disposable arrow system, maybe for every fletched arrow add to the arrow pack, there is a multiplier applied to account for the reusability of arrows today. e.g. fletch 20 arrows, add them to your pack, and now you have +100 charges added to get the fletched arrow bonus. I don't know the correct multiplier or ratio, but the point being that at some point you wouldn't necessarily be losing your mechanical benefit any earlier under the new system than under the old system where you still lose your arrows over time.

First of all, I have a permanent fletching razor that does grapple flares. My flares right now last as long as my arrows do and the idea of having to recharge my flares by making more arrows is appalling.

Secondly, I really rarely fletch right now. I spend about a day every few months doing it because I'm careful about retrieving my arrows. This would definitely make me waste more time doing something I don't like doing. Even if they speed up fletching itself, there's still gathering materials which takes time (e.g. killing creatures for feathers to turn into fletchings).

You're also going to make painting arrows entirely pointless this way (I don't do it, but I've definitely met people who enjoy making pretty arrows).

>> First of all, I have a permanent fletching razor that does grapple flares. My flares right now last as long as my arrows do and the idea of having to recharge my flares by making more arrows is appalling.

I have a couple of these. I don't believe they have yet addressed how these might work in the new system. I'm hoping they have a pouch in the new 'arrow bags' and if you stick your razor in there then you get that flare until you remove it from the bag.

The charge system that I was talking about refers to the bonus for master fletched arrows.

>> Secondly, I really rarely fletch right now. I spend about a day every few months doing it because I'm careful about retrieving my arrows.

Maybe the multiplier needs to be more like 50:1. My point was that at some ratio, it could balance out or even become a net gain. I have no idea what that ratio would need to be though.

>> You're also going to make painting arrows entirely pointless this way (I don't do it, but I've definitely met people who enjoy making pretty arrows).

My ranged ranger only uses custom bolts. Usually painted and with special feathers. Off the shelf bolts are boring and uninteresting. It sounds like you can still do this under the proposed system (you would just need to make a different 'arrow bag' for each style of arrow that you wanted to use).

-- Robert

>> A halfling magistrate picks up a small rock and throws it at a half-elven bandit in a valiant effort to subdue him.

Thanks for your interpretation of the proposal and level responses Robert. I always appreciate your informed input.

~Daid

> I don't see the part of this proposal that reduces the time to Evil Eye and skin a blood eagle, or up the spawn-rate of feathered birds. Feathers might sold off the shelf at a CHEAP price to make me happier. Perhaps some in the backrooms of Fletching Shops to each area.

Fletchings, tips, and wood that have flaring properties will now grant 12 charges of flares per material. In the case of fletchings, this means that a single skin will effectively yield 48 total charges.

> If you're at the AIM cap then every 1 CER of sighting will grant you 0.5 CER. If you're below it, the your sighting is used until you hit cap. At cap, 0.5 CER per 1 CER applies less the amount of sighting it took you to reach cap.

Each CER of sighting over the AIM cap with grant you 0.5 CER of what? Crit weighting?

Thanks!
Illithek

oh! I like that! :D

>As a side note, I appear to have edit rights to this document. Not sure that is intended - maybe I can't save - I didn't try.

Yeah we had also noticed this. I recommended Sarah to only make comments, and to post her objections here. Of course I also did myself, from another perspective.

Having re-read the updates, as well as these friendly summaries from astute players has helped a lot.

We also definitely appreciate the work of GM-Naijin as for the interest in archery and fixing some old problems. We just wanted to be sure that a lot of new problems don't surface and that the solution is really for the benefit of all players. It seems to me the work is going in a good direction.

I want to echo this sentiment. Archer Empath is already far from overpowered, and there doesn't seem to be much rationale for 1109 adding to melee but not ranged. If 1109 could be used to offset some of the nerfs to archers, it will go a long way to ensuring that ranged remains a viable option for Empaths in addition to pure and THW.

> 1. Blunt (I assume "U" is for undetermined, but some sort of crush/impact?) is for skeletons/golems/whathaveyou, lower levels who can't hit eyes, and rangers who want to single in perception; it will see a lot of main ammo and situational ammo use over broadhead for these three reasons.

The U is for unbalance. Useful for a disabler that isn't reliant upon using a spell.

> 2. Crescent appears to be for slash weighting over pierce -- I don't know whether/how many things are weak to slash relative to puncture, but it's nice to have the option, I guess.

It's more that some things are puncture resistant and nearly impossible to kill with puncture damage alone.

> 3. Bodkin looks completely lackluster

These are specifically for high armor and in many cases will bump your crit rank up by 1 and allow you to get the kill. They're for specific uses, yes, but so is all ammo. That's the point of the design.

> Phantom ranks in what though? And does whatever gets a bonus have some sort of hard cap?

In MoC for the purposes of multiple attacks. The hard cap is half the hard cap of their MoC training.

(To clarify: not that the facts of the situation are incorrect. "Wrong" in that the capability is possible, existentially. :)

> Options are good, I guess. I'm sure someone will find it useful.

Unbalance also open up the potential to use MSTRIKE on a fairly forgiving disable table. You can't MSTRIKE while aiming at the legs.

First and foremost, thank you to GM Naijin for the effort he (and the rest of the staff!) have put into archery updates. I've greatly enjoyed testing things on the test server thus far.

Now for some feedback:

CMAN Dislodge: what a fun maneuver, thematically. In practice, however, it's rather weak and consumes far too much stamina for what it does.

---

You rush toward a halfling marauder with an open hand, attempting to dislodge a wood-weapon bolt from his abdomen!
[Roll result: 174 (open d100: 67) Penalties: 5]
You manage to dislodge the bolt, doing some damage to the halfling marauder in the process!
... 5 points of damage!
Awkward slash to the halfling marauder's stomach!
Everyone needs another belly button.
Roundtime: 3 sec.

---

I did it a bunch of times and the results were not particularly great. I was expecting a higher likelihood of death criticals; I didn't get a single one. It's also not particularly good for a crossbow user - the bolt winds up in your other hand which then prevents firing the crossbow. If that's by design, so be it, but I'd be sad to not be able to really make use of the maneuver.


MSTRIKE FIRE: nailed it. Seriously, what a great, great update this is. I can absolutely wreck with a focused mstrike which is just ridiculously fun. High fives all around!

Ammo management: also nailed it. This is a billion times better and highly enjoyable.

Crossbow changes: I love the 4 second RT for FIRE, which includes all the cocking/loading. This is really great and totally makes crossbows amazing. Just implement rogue bonding for them and you're cooking with gas.

Ranged DS: There's a nasty bug here where you lose ranged DS if the weapon is in the right hand.

---

You sling an ethereal kut'zikokra off from over your shoulder.
>swap
You swap your ethereal kut'zikokra from your left to your right hand.
>
Dayzed swings a closed fist at you!
AS: +164 vs DS: +403 with AvD: -5 + d100 roll: +70 = -174
A clean miss.
>swap
You swap your ethereal kut'zikokra from your right to your left hand.
>
Dayzed swings a closed fist at you!
AS: +164 vs DS: +448 with AvD: -5 + d100 roll: +16 = -273
A clean miss.

---

As bows are fireable in both hands, this shouldn't be happening. It's also exacerbated by the fact that my ethereal crossbow always gets instantiated in my right hand.

Ethereal crossbow script flare: Not currently functional on the test server, so I can't test this just yet.

New ammo types: I love these. Very creative and fun. Just need a compartmentalized quiver to keep everything organized.

READY AMMO: I don't know how I'm gonna easily manage all these great ammo options now. This is a great problem to have.

To add a couple more nice to haves.

The mechanical crossbow has unique messaging when cocked.

"You draw back on the bowstring of your heavy arbalest causing its mithril gears to whirl, lifting a daggerbeak and shadow grey banded faewood bolt from the interior and snapping it into place."

If you fire the mech crossbow now without cocking you get this messaging:
"You cock and load your heavy arbalest with a daggerbeak and shadow grey banded faewood bolt.
You aim down the crimson crystal sights and squeeze the trigger of your heavy arbalest, the mithril gears snapping into action!"

So you get the unique part of the fire action, but not from the cocking action. Also at that point the crossbow was already loaded with 5 bolts.

Also the mstrike on the mech crossbow is sweet!

Thanks!
Illithek

Now that I know how the mechanical crossbow functions with the changes, I think the messaging is fine on the normal fire mode, since you aren't using any of the bolts you have loaded.

I think it would be awesome to have the "You draw back on the bowstring of your heavy arbalest causing its mithril gears to whirl, lifting a daggerbeak and shadow grey banded faewood bolt from the interior and snapping it into place." type messaging during the "spin" mstrike, or something else to show the auto loading.

Maybe something shorter like "Your heavy arbalest's mithril gears begin to whirl, lifting a daggerbeak and shadow grey banded faewood bolt from the interior and snapping it into place."

Illithek

> The nerfbat is hitting these crossbows hard.

They're 10k BS for a fully unlocked 6x version. A good chunk of that cost is coming directly from the enchant. The new SPIN feature is a solid, thematic, and useful ability for the crossbows and I think they're actually gaining quite a bit.

The mechanical crossbows are still getting a better treatment than my poor windlass crossbow, they are gaining something. whereas, windlasses used to be second only to elemental crossbows in speed and will now be effectively identical to Tykel's run of the mill crossbows. Their one remaining advantage is not forcing stance on the verb not meant for combat, and well that doesn't seem like much of an advantage. :(


Sweet is the sound of the pouring rain,
And the stream that falls from the hill to plain.
Better than rain or rippling brook,
Is a mug of beer inside this Took.