Question about how ascension points should work with common mental lore Manipulation
At cap I have 13 mental lore manipulation points and 88 mental lore telepathy. I just used 2 ascension points to boost my mental lore manipulation points to 15.
Mental Lore - Manipulation mlmanipulation 2
When I do a skills command I still see only 13:
Mental Lore - Manipulation.........| 64 13
Mental Lore - Telepathy............| 188 88
15 manipulation points should allow my song of disruption to to work as focused while I play my instrument.
But, when I play my mastered mandolin and sing disruption, I still can't focus (see below).
Mana surges through you in a brilliant display of silvery motes which skitter across your skin as you prepare Song of Sonic Disruption...
Your spellsong is ready.
You weave another verse into your harmony, directing the sound of your voice at a lesser orc.
You can't seem to focus your song.
The 2 ascension points have not seemed to have effected anything. Am I missing something?
Thanks,
-Regwen
A silver glow surrounds Regwen briefly.
Lheren says, "The Lord of Night has heard you, it seems."
GSBARDESS
KRAKII
Re: Ascension points for mental Lore manipulaion
09/19/2020 09:24 AM CDT
Similarly: does Ascension learning of CM ranks confer CMan points to learn more skills?
Or do they count as "regular" Enhancives, where you get the boost to effectiveness but nothing more to train in?
Or do they count as "regular" Enhancives, where you get the boost to effectiveness but nothing more to train in?
GS4-AULIS
Re: Ascension points for mental Lore manipulaion
09/19/2020 12:16 PM CDT
<<Similarly: does Ascension learning of CM ranks confer CMan points to learn more skills?
It does not.
~Aulis
Platinum Co-Guru
Forums Manager
QC'er
It does not.
~Aulis
Platinum Co-Guru
Forums Manager
QC'er
ARCHIGEEK
Re: Ascension points for mental Lore manipulaion
09/19/2020 12:35 PM CDT
well that's a bummer (no CMAN points for training in CM). Is it the same with other skills that garner points: armor, shield use? What are the limitations to the skills we choose to spend points on? If I pay for 27 armor ranks and end up with 330 armor ranks, do I get to the next level of maneuver penalty reduction?
It feels a bit arbitrary to ixnay some aspects of what a skill provides and not others. I guess the best follow up question is, what's the logic behind not providing CMAN points or other benefits that are normally gained by training in something? I mean, what's the point in the OP training in a lore if not for the benefits of training in that lore, particularly since the benefits of lores are pretty small to begin with? I'm puzzled. Why would anyone train in a lore if that's the case?
Kerl
It feels a bit arbitrary to ixnay some aspects of what a skill provides and not others. I guess the best follow up question is, what's the logic behind not providing CMAN points or other benefits that are normally gained by training in something? I mean, what's the point in the OP training in a lore if not for the benefits of training in that lore, particularly since the benefits of lores are pretty small to begin with? I'm puzzled. Why would anyone train in a lore if that's the case?
Kerl
BBRODRIGUEZ
Re: Ascension points for mental Lore manipulaion
09/19/2020 01:08 PM CDT
>Why would anyone train in a lore if that's the case?
I think the better question would be - why would anyone train in many skills if that's the case?
I was planing on training in some CM with my warmage, but seeing as how the extra ATP ranks won't benefit him mechanically (outside of slightly adjusting up/down offensive and defensive CML) - what's the point? Granted there aren't many terribly useful CMANs a wizard can learn, but it would be nice to have a few extra points as time goes on to get another rank 1 in a cman or two, just for the added extra defense if the skills are used against him.
I guess more clarification on what players actually benefit from spending ATPs on trainable skills would be appreciated.
I dropped a few points into AU ranks for my warmage - wanting to hurry him up and get him into higher ASG. Do those few points I spent in ATP not actually count? Now I'm second guessing things and what I thought would be logical and straight forward seems to be bass-ackwards and confusing.
I think the better question would be - why would anyone train in many skills if that's the case?
I was planing on training in some CM with my warmage, but seeing as how the extra ATP ranks won't benefit him mechanically (outside of slightly adjusting up/down offensive and defensive CML) - what's the point? Granted there aren't many terribly useful CMANs a wizard can learn, but it would be nice to have a few extra points as time goes on to get another rank 1 in a cman or two, just for the added extra defense if the skills are used against him.
I guess more clarification on what players actually benefit from spending ATPs on trainable skills would be appreciated.
I dropped a few points into AU ranks for my warmage - wanting to hurry him up and get him into higher ASG. Do those few points I spent in ATP not actually count? Now I'm second guessing things and what I thought would be logical and straight forward seems to be bass-ackwards and confusing.
LEAFIARA
Re: Ascension points for mental Lore manipulaion
09/19/2020 01:28 PM CDT
Regwen:
ATPs add bonus to a skill, not ranks. How this works:
At rank 1-10, 1 rank = 5 bonus.
At rank 11-20, 1 rank = 4 bonus.
At rank 21-30, 1 rank = 3 bonus.
At rank 31-40, 1 rank = 2 bonus.
At rank 41+, 1 rank = 1 bonus.
So the 2 ATPs you added only added 0.5 ranks for the range you're in.
The good news is you can do what you were trying to do, but essentially it's done the other way around. Drop Telepathy to 86 (in normal skills), raise Manipulation to 15 (in normal skills), then move the 2 ATPs into Telepathy to bring it back to 88 (since it's past the mark where 1 rank = 1 bonus). Done!
https://gswiki.play.net/Leafiara
ATPs add bonus to a skill, not ranks. How this works:
At rank 1-10, 1 rank = 5 bonus.
At rank 11-20, 1 rank = 4 bonus.
At rank 21-30, 1 rank = 3 bonus.
At rank 31-40, 1 rank = 2 bonus.
At rank 41+, 1 rank = 1 bonus.
So the 2 ATPs you added only added 0.5 ranks for the range you're in.
The good news is you can do what you were trying to do, but essentially it's done the other way around. Drop Telepathy to 86 (in normal skills), raise Manipulation to 15 (in normal skills), then move the 2 ATPs into Telepathy to bring it back to 88 (since it's past the mark where 1 rank = 1 bonus). Done!
https://gswiki.play.net/Leafiara
GSBARDESS
Re: Ascension points for mental Lore manipulaion
09/19/2020 01:55 PM CDT
Thanks Leafiara!
So glad I still had my yearly fixskill!
Mental Lore - Manipulation.........| 70 15
Mental Lore - Telepathy............| 188 88
Yeah!
Bye bye orc....
Mana surges through you in a brilliant display of silvery motes which skitter across your skin as you prepare Song of Sonic Disruption...
Your spellsong is ready.
You weave another verse into your harmony, directing the sound of your voice at a lesser orc.
CS: +462 - TD: +18 + CvA: +19 + d100: +83 == +546
Warding failed!
A lesser orc reels under the force of the sonic vibrations!
Sound waves disrupt for 303 damage!
A lesser orc screams one last time and dies.
-A more dangerous Regwen
A silver glow surrounds Regwen briefly.
Lheren says, "The Lord of Night has heard you, it seems."
So glad I still had my yearly fixskill!
Mental Lore - Manipulation.........| 70 15
Mental Lore - Telepathy............| 188 88
Yeah!
Bye bye orc....
Mana surges through you in a brilliant display of silvery motes which skitter across your skin as you prepare Song of Sonic Disruption...
Your spellsong is ready.
You weave another verse into your harmony, directing the sound of your voice at a lesser orc.
CS: +462 - TD: +18 + CvA: +19 + d100: +83 == +546
Warding failed!
A lesser orc reels under the force of the sonic vibrations!
Sound waves disrupt for 303 damage!
A lesser orc screams one last time and dies.
-A more dangerous Regwen
A silver glow surrounds Regwen briefly.
Lheren says, "The Lord of Night has heard you, it seems."
KRAKII
Re: Ascension points for mental Lore manipulaion
09/19/2020 08:30 PM CDT
So to be clear:
- learning a bunch of ATP CM ranks does nothing for a character except to make their CMans (outgoing) succeed more, and creatures' CMans (incoming) be defended against better?
- and by extension, "the same" for Shield and Armor rank-based skills?
- Because these are "learned" things that you have to spend points for, and Enhancive-type bonuses to do not actually confer points?
BUT:
- Lore ranks are perfectly willing to give their benefits, because those are simply "things that happen" if you achieve some specific tier of bonus in those Lore skills, and the benefit propagates out to "all spells cast" based on your--effective!--skill, be it trained or Ascension-given or Enhancive-worn?
.
So, every caster everywhere should use the Manager-based training ("actual") skills to get all of their Lores up to 40 ranks, and then feel free to use Ascension to throw an extra +50 (of each) on top of that until their bonuses max out, correct? And all those bonuses granted by the Lores will actually happen?
Looks like my Bard is unlearning a bunch Air, to switch over to Water, and picking up Ascension ranks for both. -3s RT from Tonis (40 actual +35 Ascension) and 6 pulses of "The Moistening" from Mana Focus (40 actual Water + 35 Ascension), and I'll still have 22 ranks to burn!
.
.
(I think it's asinine that the physical professions--which need the most help, see also CMans and "why they exist in the first place"--get precisely zero additional assistance from potentially being able to pick up another 40 CM points and get more "stuff to do".)
- learning a bunch of ATP CM ranks does nothing for a character except to make their CMans (outgoing) succeed more, and creatures' CMans (incoming) be defended against better?
- and by extension, "the same" for Shield and Armor rank-based skills?
- Because these are "learned" things that you have to spend points for, and Enhancive-type bonuses to do not actually confer points?
BUT:
- Lore ranks are perfectly willing to give their benefits, because those are simply "things that happen" if you achieve some specific tier of bonus in those Lore skills, and the benefit propagates out to "all spells cast" based on your--effective!--skill, be it trained or Ascension-given or Enhancive-worn?
.
So, every caster everywhere should use the Manager-based training ("actual") skills to get all of their Lores up to 40 ranks, and then feel free to use Ascension to throw an extra +50 (of each) on top of that until their bonuses max out, correct? And all those bonuses granted by the Lores will actually happen?
Looks like my Bard is unlearning a bunch Air, to switch over to Water, and picking up Ascension ranks for both. -3s RT from Tonis (40 actual +35 Ascension) and 6 pulses of "The Moistening" from Mana Focus (40 actual Water + 35 Ascension), and I'll still have 22 ranks to burn!
.
.
(I think it's asinine that the physical professions--which need the most help, see also CMans and "why they exist in the first place"--get precisely zero additional assistance from potentially being able to pick up another 40 CM points and get more "stuff to do".)
KANDOR
Re: Ascension points for mental Lore manipulaion
09/19/2020 11:01 PM CDT
It might be a good idea to reconsider whether ranks purchased via ATP are counted as ranks learned or ranks enhanced. Naturally, the costs may also need to be adjusted.
LEAFIARA
Re: Ascension points for mental Lore manipulaion
09/20/2020 12:00 AM CDT
>So to be clear:
- learning a bunch of ATP CM ranks does nothing for a character except to make their CMans (outgoing) succeed more, and creatures' CMans (incoming) be defended against better?
It also adds 1 physical AS for every 2 ranks.
>So, every caster everywhere should use the Manager-based training ("actual") skills to get all of their Lores up to 40 ranks, and then feel free to use Ascension to throw an extra +50 (of each) on top of that until their bonuses max out, correct? And all those bonuses granted by the Lores will actually happen?
Yeah, I think it's fair to say that each lore a person cares about (that caring part is key) should usually go up to at least 40 from conventional skills... at least in the very, very long run. Getting 50 lores from ascension is 13.75m, 40 is 9m, 30 is 5.25m, and 20 is 2.5m, so we're not exactly talking about an easy feat here! (10 ranks cost just 750k, though. Not so bad!)
https://gswiki.play.net/Leafiara
- learning a bunch of ATP CM ranks does nothing for a character except to make their CMans (outgoing) succeed more, and creatures' CMans (incoming) be defended against better?
It also adds 1 physical AS for every 2 ranks.
>So, every caster everywhere should use the Manager-based training ("actual") skills to get all of their Lores up to 40 ranks, and then feel free to use Ascension to throw an extra +50 (of each) on top of that until their bonuses max out, correct? And all those bonuses granted by the Lores will actually happen?
Yeah, I think it's fair to say that each lore a person cares about (that caring part is key) should usually go up to at least 40 from conventional skills... at least in the very, very long run. Getting 50 lores from ascension is 13.75m, 40 is 9m, 30 is 5.25m, and 20 is 2.5m, so we're not exactly talking about an easy feat here! (10 ranks cost just 750k, though. Not so bad!)
https://gswiki.play.net/Leafiara
KRAKII
Re: Ascension points for mental Lore manipulaion
09/21/2020 09:09 PM CDT
Heh. My, how times have changed.
So I was just looking at my (capped) Bard's "exp" readout, and said, "Hey, 50K for one Ascension point. Huh, well, that's only 20 TP sets."
<blink>
Then I went, "WHAT THE HELL AM I THINKING HERE??!?!"
50k?
That is AN ENTIRE LEVEL (>20th), in the world that I grew up in. And I'm dismissing it, as "only 20 TPs..."
.
Talk about a paradigm shift....
So I was just looking at my (capped) Bard's "exp" readout, and said, "Hey, 50K for one Ascension point. Huh, well, that's only 20 TP sets."
<blink>
Then I went, "WHAT THE HELL AM I THINKING HERE??!?!"
50k?
That is AN ENTIRE LEVEL (>20th), in the world that I grew up in. And I'm dismissing it, as "only 20 TPs..."
.
Talk about a paradigm shift....
