Ascension is now available to all instances. Please see original post at http://forums.play.net/forums/GemStone%20IV/GemStone%20IV%20Announcements/Important%20Announcements/view/3693 for more details.
- Naijin
GS4-NAIJIN
CLTIDBALL
Re: Ascension General Release
09/15/2020 10:05 PM CDT
Yay!
Was super surprised to have the [You have earned...] milestone messages pop up in the middle of my bandit hunt this evening. Wasn't expecting Ascension to see it go live so quickly after getting Platinum'ed, but super happy, too!
~Cylnthia Kythnis Ardenai
~Paragon of Kuon
~Rose Guardian, House Sylvanfair
Was super surprised to have the [You have earned...] milestone messages pop up in the middle of my bandit hunt this evening. Wasn't expecting Ascension to see it go live so quickly after getting Platinum'ed, but super happy, too!
~Cylnthia Kythnis Ardenai
~Paragon of Kuon
~Rose Guardian, House Sylvanfair
MENOS
Re: Ascension General Release
09/16/2020 06:46 AM CDT
Excellent.
One bug I have noticed so far. Instantly absorbed exp from getting saturated from a bounty task is going to normal exp and not ascension, even if set to 100% ascension.
Sweet is the sound of the pouring rain,
And the stream that falls from the hill to plain.
Better than rain or rippling brook,
Is a mug of beer inside this Took.
One bug I have noticed so far. Instantly absorbed exp from getting saturated from a bounty task is going to normal exp and not ascension, even if set to 100% ascension.
Sweet is the sound of the pouring rain,
And the stream that falls from the hill to plain.
Better than rain or rippling brook,
Is a mug of beer inside this Took.
RAGGLER
Re: Ascension General Release
09/16/2020 10:45 PM CDT
Is there any chance we could see something like this when we type exp? Maybe I'm being silly, but after years of watching it grow, seeing my normal exp dead in the water makes me sad. I also think it would be a quality of life improvement to have both counts in one place.
Experience: 10000000
Ascension Experience: 500000
Total Experience: 10500000
Isle Snack Muncher
Experience: 10000000
Ascension Experience: 500000
Total Experience: 10500000
Isle Snack Muncher
PEREGRINEFALCON
Re: Ascension General Release
09/17/2020 06:50 AM CDT
>> Maybe I'm being silly, but after years of watching it grow, seeing my normal exp dead in the water makes me sad.
Raggler, is this your experience or your waistline we are actually talking about here?
+1 on this suggestion btw. :-)
-- Robert
>> A halfling magistrate picks up a small rock and throws it at a half-elven bandit in a valiant effort to subdue him.
Raggler, is this your experience or your waistline we are actually talking about here?
+1 on this suggestion btw. :-)
-- Robert
>> A halfling magistrate picks up a small rock and throws it at a half-elven bandit in a valiant effort to subdue him.
PEREGRINEFALCON
Re: Ascension General Release
09/17/2020 07:21 AM CDT
Off to a good start and definitely looks like this will add some long term goals / fun to the game.
A few random questions:
- Just to confirm, do the skill / stat increases gained through Ascension apply to the Enhancive limit (I recall there being some discussion that it would not but I don't see this actually documented anywhere in the help or on the wiki)
- How does taking the Ascension Resistances interact with things like armor padding? Are each halved when both come into play or do they work independently?
- Everything I see listed so far appears to be mechanical in nature. Is there any consideration being given to introduce non-mechanical Ascension perks as well or is this system intended to be primarily focused on character mechanics vs. any RP / Fluff perks?
-- Robert
>> A halfling magistrate picks up a small rock and throws it at a half-elven bandit in a valiant effort to subdue him.
A few random questions:
- Just to confirm, do the skill / stat increases gained through Ascension apply to the Enhancive limit (I recall there being some discussion that it would not but I don't see this actually documented anywhere in the help or on the wiki)
- How does taking the Ascension Resistances interact with things like armor padding? Are each halved when both come into play or do they work independently?
- Everything I see listed so far appears to be mechanical in nature. Is there any consideration being given to introduce non-mechanical Ascension perks as well or is this system intended to be primarily focused on character mechanics vs. any RP / Fluff perks?
-- Robert
>> A halfling magistrate picks up a small rock and throws it at a half-elven bandit in a valiant effort to subdue him.
KARDIOS
Re: Ascension General Release
09/17/2020 08:30 AM CDT
I would prefer that ASC bonuses how up in the "normal" column when I type Info. It's simpler if the only yellow items in the Enhanced column represent bonuses from items I can remove.
KRAKII
Re: Ascension General Release
09/17/2020 09:31 AM CDT
I would prefer it if there were two more columns added, "Ascension" and "Total".
So there would be columns of stat names, the stats themselves, the Ascension increases, Enhancive increases, and the net.
So there would be columns of stat names, the stats themselves, the Ascension increases, Enhancive increases, and the net.
RAGGLER
Re: Ascension General Release
09/18/2020 05:19 PM CDT
Thanks for the quick update! Now as Faulkil says, I only need to keep a sharp eye on my growing middle section. ;P
Isle Snack Muncher
Isle Snack Muncher
KRAKII
Re: Ascension General Release
09/26/2020 09:37 AM CDT
Offered as hopefully constructive feedback: yes, "alphabetical order" is the easy way to show the Ascension List, but it is not particularly easy to read.
Please consider taking a page from the GSWiki, which has them broken down by Stat & Skill & Resist & Regen... and then do alphabetical within those groups.
Secondly, why bother with "sol" for the Sorcerous Lores? Just use "sl" same as spirit, because "that whole long string of text that comes after" is going to be guaranteeing uniqueness anyhow....
Thanks for thinking about it!
Please consider taking a page from the GSWiki, which has them broken down by Stat & Skill & Resist & Regen... and then do alphabetical within those groups.
Secondly, why bother with "sol" for the Sorcerous Lores? Just use "sl" same as spirit, because "that whole long string of text that comes after" is going to be guaranteeing uniqueness anyhow....
Thanks for thinking about it!
KRAKII
Re: Ascension General Release
09/27/2020 10:10 PM CDT
I subsequently found that it is possible to split out the different groups, so you can see JUST "common regen" or "common stat"--and they are indeed in alphabetical order--so that largely negates the issue I raised above.
One comment about the stats... is it possible to have a toggle (permanent) or command option (one-off) to list them in the order they appear in character "info"? I know it always throws me for a loop when I'm comparing what I get in game, with what is in the gs4.trainer.xls file, for example (though I admit I may have an old version), and now this is still another sort order completely.
.
.
As to "discussion"...
Am I alone in thinking that the only things that really pay off for most characters--and fully realizing that Epic & Legendary pre-reqs may well change things down the road--are the stats themselves, and regen?
Stats are obvious: you get better RT, or hold more experience/absorb it faster, or carry more, or whatever.
Skills seem like a deep quagmire to sink into. (Unless for example you just need that 105 Lore rank for some breakpoint, or another PF to get that Stamina point, or whatever.) For the experience, there isn't a single skill available to a Bard--even at double training level--that even approaches cost effectiveness. (One ATP is 20p/20m, which means that it is a straight-up purchase equivalent for Dodging for spellcasters.) Many classes haven't got anything that expensive (doubled ranks would be... but the skill can only be singled in), because Spell Research isn't available.
Regen, on the other hand... are functionally the same as getting multiple ranks of a skill. (+1 Mana regen can be had for [roughly] 7 ranks of Harness Power, or 10 ranks of the appropriate Mana Control. Stamina for a bunch of ranks of PF. And so on.)
That seems to add up to me, to "put my early ATPs into Regens" for the most bang for my buck.
Is there anything I'm not considering?
One comment about the stats... is it possible to have a toggle (permanent) or command option (one-off) to list them in the order they appear in character "info"? I know it always throws me for a loop when I'm comparing what I get in game, with what is in the gs4.trainer.xls file, for example (though I admit I may have an old version), and now this is still another sort order completely.
.
.
As to "discussion"...
Am I alone in thinking that the only things that really pay off for most characters--and fully realizing that Epic & Legendary pre-reqs may well change things down the road--are the stats themselves, and regen?
Stats are obvious: you get better RT, or hold more experience/absorb it faster, or carry more, or whatever.
Skills seem like a deep quagmire to sink into. (Unless for example you just need that 105 Lore rank for some breakpoint, or another PF to get that Stamina point, or whatever.) For the experience, there isn't a single skill available to a Bard--even at double training level--that even approaches cost effectiveness. (One ATP is 20p/20m, which means that it is a straight-up purchase equivalent for Dodging for spellcasters.) Many classes haven't got anything that expensive (doubled ranks would be... but the skill can only be singled in), because Spell Research isn't available.
Regen, on the other hand... are functionally the same as getting multiple ranks of a skill. (+1 Mana regen can be had for [roughly] 7 ranks of Harness Power, or 10 ranks of the appropriate Mana Control. Stamina for a bunch of ranks of PF. And so on.)
That seems to add up to me, to "put my early ATPs into Regens" for the most bang for my buck.
Is there anything I'm not considering?
KRAKII
Re: Ascension General Release
09/30/2020 03:43 PM CDT
Since the "skill" and "skill base" screens already show different things split out--'skill' shows "what you have use of", to include Enhancives of all types; 'skill base' shows "Those Things On Which You Have Spent Points", so if you see a line of skill with a '0' ranks, there's an Enhancive involved--can those just be changed to include the "Ascension" column?
(So we would see the columns of "net skill", net ranks, PTP/MTP trained ranks, ATP trained ranks, and Enhancive ranks.)
(Thinking about it more, I think Enhancive "skill" and Enhancive "ranks" should be their own columns. The net conversion would be displayed same as it is now.)
.
And I would like to repeat my request to show "all of the recovery rates."
With either an additional set of lines to 'resource' (or "a different set of lines from 'resource', if you use the command line option to see just the recovery rats"),
OR creation of a new verb. Since it looks like my first choice, 'recovery', would conflict with the 'recover' verb, I'll say 'regen' instead to match the Ascension mnemonics.
Preferably to include the same information: net, base, Ascension, Enhancives. So one line each for Health and Mana and Stamina and Spirit.
(So we would see the columns of "net skill", net ranks, PTP/MTP trained ranks, ATP trained ranks, and Enhancive ranks.)
(Thinking about it more, I think Enhancive "skill" and Enhancive "ranks" should be their own columns. The net conversion would be displayed same as it is now.)
.
And I would like to repeat my request to show "all of the recovery rates."
With either an additional set of lines to 'resource' (or "a different set of lines from 'resource', if you use the command line option to see just the recovery rats"),
OR creation of a new verb. Since it looks like my first choice, 'recovery', would conflict with the 'recover' verb, I'll say 'regen' instead to match the Ascension mnemonics.
Preferably to include the same information: net, base, Ascension, Enhancives. So one line each for Health and Mana and Stamina and Spirit.
KRAKII
Re: Ascension General Release
10/02/2020 06:24 AM CDT
Something goofy is going on with the unlearning mechanics. I had used two points on my Monk, then decided to move them to somewhere else.
So I set them both to unlearn and watched the time start. That seemed normal.
This morning I got told that I had recovered one, so I put it in the new target. That seemed normal.
Then a few minutes later I got told that I had lost one ATP, and "exp" showed me with -1 ATP.
And a few minutes later I--again--got told that I had lost one ATP, but "exp" still shows me at -1 ATP.
"asc exp" shows two earned, 1 migrating, but I kind of think that I am already receiving the benefit of both having been reassigned.
It just occurred to me that my NEW Ascension experience pool earned (the line sloping up on a graph) may have just met the Unlearning Ascension experience (the line sloping down on a graph), and the net adds up to "Hey, you have a point available!" In which case I'm a lot more comfortable with the results that I have...
...but the messaging seems odd (like the multiple notices in the space of just a few minutes), and seeing "-1 ATP" in the experience readout is kind of funky.
So I set them both to unlearn and watched the time start. That seemed normal.
This morning I got told that I had recovered one, so I put it in the new target. That seemed normal.
Then a few minutes later I got told that I had lost one ATP, and "exp" showed me with -1 ATP.
And a few minutes later I--again--got told that I had lost one ATP, but "exp" still shows me at -1 ATP.
"asc exp" shows two earned, 1 migrating, but I kind of think that I am already receiving the benefit of both having been reassigned.
It just occurred to me that my NEW Ascension experience pool earned (the line sloping up on a graph) may have just met the Unlearning Ascension experience (the line sloping down on a graph), and the net adds up to "Hey, you have a point available!" In which case I'm a lot more comfortable with the results that I have...
...but the messaging seems odd (like the multiple notices in the space of just a few minutes), and seeing "-1 ATP" in the experience readout is kind of funky.
KRAKII
Re: Ascension General Release
02/02/2022 03:03 PM CST
"I would prefer it if there were two more columns added, "Ascension" and "Total".
So there would be columns of stat names, the stats themselves, the Ascension increases, Enhancive increases, and the net." -- Me, #387
.
http://forums.play.net/forums/GemStone%20IV/Combat,%20Magic,%20and%20Character%20Mechanics/Developer's%20Corner/view/3935
Thanks, Naijin!
So there would be columns of stat names, the stats themselves, the Ascension increases, Enhancive increases, and the net." -- Me, #387
.
http://forums.play.net/forums/GemStone%20IV/Combat,%20Magic,%20and%20Character%20Mechanics/Developer's%20Corner/view/3935
Thanks, Naijin!
KRAKII
Re: Ascension General Release
06/07/2022 08:52 AM CDT
Would it be feasible to have (maybe a SimuCoin?) item(s) that can convert Ascension points back into 20p/20m (== 50k capped experience)? Possibly limit them to "only capped characters"?
And "one direction only", not taking a bunch of experience and making Ascension points. You want those, change your percentage of Asc Exp.
Some times you have a "training facepalm" and think of a use for a fistful of TPs after the fact...
And having just said that: a second item, that takes 50k experience and converts it into an Ascension point? Limit them to ONLY points of experience that exceed the limit of "what this class can possibly spend" on Character Manager skills? (i.e. "usable by people who were beyond 'True Cap' when the Ascension system was released.")
So someone who had literally capped Every Single Skill, but kept going, could cash in (for a SimuCoin cost) the experience above that which they had accrued.
And "one direction only", not taking a bunch of experience and making Ascension points. You want those, change your percentage of Asc Exp.
Some times you have a "training facepalm" and think of a use for a fistful of TPs after the fact...
And having just said that: a second item, that takes 50k experience and converts it into an Ascension point? Limit them to ONLY points of experience that exceed the limit of "what this class can possibly spend" on Character Manager skills? (i.e. "usable by people who were beyond 'True Cap' when the Ascension system was released.")
So someone who had literally capped Every Single Skill, but kept going, could cash in (for a SimuCoin cost) the experience above that which they had accrued.
