Adjusted Forged Weapon Update suggestion 06/20/2020 12:59 AM CDT
Becoming a master forger takes a lot of patience and luck. The path to crafting a perfect weapon takes a lot of work, no doubt about it.

You need to master crafting in order to craft best handles/hafts for making a perfect weapon.
A perfect forging-hammer isn't necessary, but it aids in the chance to craft a perfect weapon - this requires you to master crafting and get lucky on the vise.
Hammering out a best piece requires one to master the weapon type you're working on.
Perfect weapon requires best crafted handle/haft and hammered blade + luck on vise.
I can spend 20-30 hours hammering out blades to get best pieces and 3-10 hours crafting handles/hafts for best pieces.
Then even with a Gift of the Gods - Eonake, at times end up with zero perfect weapons. Countless hours working on making perfect weapons and at times not making a single one.

I have issues with the current system and if the weapon system won't be getting an over haul I'd like to see things adjusted with forging.

Here are issues I have:
1) most sought after weapons are the easiest to craft (maul and lance)
2) items that are harder (take significantly longer) to craft are less sought after or not wanted at all due to weapon bases
3) lack of difference in finalized weapons that are more difficult to craft over easier weapons to craft.

Mauls, lances and rapiers all require 1 hammer session to craft a blade. Granted these weapons require a merchant to purchase the glyphs doesn't change the fact that for THW mauls are most sought for and for Polearms the lance is most sought after. Rapier - kind of lack luster, sadly, compared to other OHEs. Any forger that fancies their self as a good forger should have a few of these glyphs in their possession. So it's kind of a moot point you need a merchant to get them from.

I'd love to see weapons that take longer (more hammer sessions) to craft a best piece give better returns.

Things to keep in mind:
Forging is a numbers game - more you forge the better chance you have to crafting best pieces.
When using the VISE you want to activate Gift of the Gods - Eonake. You get 15 minutes. 70 seconds per vise means 12 chance for crafting a perfect weapon. You want to craft 12 best blades and 12 best handles before you utilize the vise to give you your best chances to craft perfect weapons.

Mauls for THW - they only do crush damage. Shots to the head are amazing - crush the skull = win!
Craft a maul head = 1 hammer session. Depending on the metal used, 4 to 10 minutes per session. Same goes with a lance blade.

We'll say you're using mithril. Mithril requires 4 minutes for hammering out a maul/lance/rapier blade.
60 minutes in the forge means you can hammer out 15 blades/heads.
If you're lucky with the RNG you should hopefully see 1-2 best blades per hour.
Roughly 12 hours to hammer out 12 best pieces (6 hours if you're really lucky, 18 hours if you're not so lucky).
Crafting best handles, if you're lucky 2 hours. If you're unlucky it may take upwards of 8 hours.
At most maybe 24-30 hours of work to get 12 best maul heads and 12 best maul handles.
If you're lucky, you'll vise 3 perfect weapons. If you're unlucky you'll get zero. If you're extremely lucky you'll vise 4+ perfect weapons.
So, in my experience, within 24 hours you should be able to hammer out a couple perfect mauls.
Same would go with a lance or rapier.

Let's say you wanted to work on a flail and craft it out of mithril.
Flails require 4 hammer sessions per blade. 16 minutes hammering to finish a blade.
60 minutes in the forge means 3.75 blades an hour. To get 15 blades would require 4 hours in the forge.
If you're lucky out of that 4 hours to hammer out 15 blades for a flail you should hopefully see 1-2 best blades.
Roughly 48 hours to hammer out 12 best pieces (maybe 24 hours if you're lucky or 60 hours if you're unlucky).
Crafting best handles, if you're lucky 2 hours. If you're unlucky it may take upwards of 8 hours.
At most, maybe 72 hours of work to get 12 best flail heads and 12 best flail handles.
If you're lucky, you'll vise 3 perfect weapons. If you're unlucky you'll get zero. If you're extremely lucky you'll vise 4+ perfect weapons.
So, in my experience, within 60-72 hours you should be able to hammer out a couple perfect flails.

The estimated times above are only with mithril metal and on the low end of time - using vultite means a hammer session goes from 4 minutes to 9 minutes and requires even more time for best pieces.

Flails are only better than a maul for cloth and leather armor - scale and up the maul is better. It's easier to craft perfect mauls over a perfect flail. However, since flails are less desirable due to being less effective overall when compared to a maul, why would someone want to waste all that extra time trying to craft a perfect flail?

I'm suggesting a boost to DF and AvD for every 2 hammer sessions over the initial. I'd like to see other weapons that require more time and are less desirable to be more sought after.

Weapons that require 1-2 hammer sessions keep the current bonuses:
Quality DF AvD
Well-made 2% +1
Exquisite 4% +2
Perfect 6% +3


Weapons that require 3-4 hammer sessions:
Quality DF AvD
Well-made 3% +2
Exquisite 5% +3
Perfect 7% +4


Weapons that require 5-6 hammer sessions:
Quality DF AvD
Well-made 4% +3
Exquisite 6% +4
Perfect 8% +5


Weapons that require 7 hammer sessions:
Quality DF AvD
Well-made 5% +4
Exquisite 7% +5
Perfect 9% +6


Boosting up the benefit of weapons that take longer to craft would off-set some of the power difference and perhaps make some of the less sought after weapons more desirable from forging.

This certainly won't help some weapons such as the quarterstaff - let's face it, wet noodle - or rapier because the short-sword is better all around and even the short-sword is kind of lame for an OHE. But it might make people think about a few other weapon types if they're willing to put in the time for them, such as the flamberge/warsword/warhammer/ball&chain/longsword/broadsword/greatsword and so on.
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Re: Adjusted Forged Weapon Update suggestion 06/20/2020 03:50 AM CDT
Unfortunately, from what I've seen when forging has been mentioned by NIR the last few years, forging is most likely like player shops were before the recent over-haul: an archaic system that was coded in a way that makes it difficult to understand, easy to break, and has likely led to the resignation of at least a couple GMs. Even if that assessment is incorrect, I've been told point blank that they have no intention of touching it and us players prolly don't want them to anyway cause of changes that would have to be made if they did (no elaboration was given on that last point).

That said, your break-down of how much time it takes to create perfects matches up with my experience, which is why I only take commissions if someone's willing to give me a month to complete a piece. There are a couple observations I have and a response to your proposal, though:

*Lances, mauls, rapiers, and sais only require 1 round because they're not readily available like the others. Perfect lances, mauls, and sais also sell for less then they should because that's what people tend to make when they don't have a commission for something else (diluting the market)... if their glyphs were available at town forges with the number of hammer sessions they should have I guarantee they could be sold for 1.5-2x as much as they can be now... maybe more. Unless they do a general review of weapon bases, there's not much they can do to make rapiers worth forging.

*Aside from daggers, any of the weapons that have glyphs available in all towns are a hard sell. That doesn't mean there aren't people seeking other weapon bases that require more hammer sessions, I regularly get requests to make handaxes, falchions, war hammers, and morning stars. Other then war hammers, I also tend to make those weapons even without a commission when I'm working with most metals cause I only get one Gift of Eonake a month and the amount I can get above what I would get for a maul is more then I'd make hunting during the extra time time it takes to make them.

*Your idea is interesting, but I doubt it would do much other then increase demand for perfects in general without affecting the desirability of most of the weapon bases themselves. Fore polearms, the DFs of lances are high enough above any other weapons base that even the ones that would get an 8% boost still wouldn't match up to them. THWs would have greatswords and flamberges as possible exceptions. Both OHE and Blunt would run into the same problem.... Why use a ball and chain improved to the level of a morning star when you can have a better then normal morning star?

Starchitin, the OG

A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
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Re: Adjusted Forged Weapon Update suggestion 06/20/2020 02:51 PM CDT
>>That said, your break-down of how much time it takes to create perfects matches up with my experience, which is why I only take commissions if someone's willing to give me a month to complete a piece.

I take anywhere from several months to a year to get an 'orderer' perfect.
Most of my customers are willing to wait.



Clunk

(Buy your swords at CBD weapons in Zul Logoth.)
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Re: Adjusted Forged Weapon Update suggestion 06/21/2020 01:23 PM CDT
>I take anywhere from several months to a year to get an 'orderer' perfect.

I don't take may craft weapon requests, but the couple I have done I've churned out a perfect blade within a week's time.

Then again, it all depends on how much time and resources you have available to work - plus how much luck you happen to get. Last requested job asked of me was a vaalorn short-sword (2 if possible and lucky enough). I had 9 best blades and handles after a week and ended up with only 1 perfect. Customer was happy with 1 and I exhausted all my vaalorn slabs to clear room for more stuff in my locker.

I'd just like to see some kind of improvement on items that take a lot longer to craft over ones you can churn out in a fraction of the time.

You want a perfect greatsword? 7 hammer sessions per blade and roughly 1 best piece every 15 blades (at least in my experience). Using mithril means 7, 4 minute hammer sesions. 28 minutes a blade. 2 blades per hour. You could be hammering out greatsword blades for 6 to 10 hours before you get a best piece (12 to 20 blades). Let's say you like at minimum 8 blades/hafts before you try to vise. That means upwards of 48 hours just hammering out blades to hopefully have 8 best.

Then another person wants a greataxe. 3 hammer sessions per blade. Out of mithril means 12 minutes per blade attempt. 5 blades per hour. Roughly 2-4 hours for a best blade (10-20 blades). If you require a minimum of 8 best blades/hafts before you vise you're looking at minimum of 12 hours to hopefully have 8 best blades.

The DF and AvD are close between these two weapons and they both have the same RT. However, one can take upwards of 4x+ in terms of time to craft a perfect version. If it takes longer to hammer out best pieces, I'd like to think they'd give a better return to extra DF & AvD over weapons that take a fraction of the time.
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Re: Adjusted Forged Weapon Update suggestion 07/07/2020 06:23 PM CDT
I made my perfect bastard sword, and haven't set foot in the smithy again. :D
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