Forging Ideas / Wish list 02/21/2019 05:18 PM CST
Just a few things I'd like to see with forging

1) Give the creator a chance to doll it up some... specifically just let us be able to plant in a gem as a pommel or embed it near the guard or something

2) Shields. I don't see a reason to let a smith be able to forge a shield to the size of his/her liking out of a certain metal and technically they are weapons.

3) Armor... well, I doubt this'll go through but can't say no if I don't ask

4) The ability to search for and mine / smelt ores.

5) Sometimes (maybe at HESS or some GM auction?) give the ability to learn how to create a claidhmore or a katana, etc etc.. basically weapons that we currently can't create. Obviously only a handful of such glyphs if this is even allowed

6) Might I be so bold as to ask for a Forge Guild if my item number 1 isn't accepted but and thus a Forge Guild to let us learn how to doll up / do other fancy things with our created weapons? Maybe even let us learn how to lighten the weappon or even give us the ability to actually "read" the combat effectiveness of it if we are masters of the forge and part of this guild. Other thoughts, give the ability to learn how to do other fluff to the weapon such as attaching something to the handle, or maybe add a very small pocket in the weapon if it makes sense. For example: A rapier or a longsword with a pocket in it that's deep enough for a dagger/knife. Not another sword. Maybe let us be able to give that mithril blade an eonake or white ora edge so it's a sanctified weapon? I can go on and on, but I honestly think this should be looked into. I won't get hopes up on this, but it would be nice to get something so there's more cool things you can do when you master the forge other than just make perfect weapons super duper rarely. Myself.. I've only made a handful of superior weapons... one day I'll make a perfect :D




__________________________
- Kobold in Disguise Falvicar, Blade of the Night

You swing a silver-edged black veil iron katana at Sevynne!

* Sevynne drops dead at your feet!
* Sevynne just bit the dust!
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Re: Forging Ideas / Wish list 02/21/2019 06:03 PM CST
<6) Might I be so bold as to ask for a Forge Guild if my item number 1 isn't accepted but and thus a Forge Guild to let us learn how to doll up / do other fancy things with our created weapons?>

No no no no no nonnononononononononononono.....

After all the monotonous time spent by anyone that's Mastered one weapons style (let alone two), it would just be cruel to make us have to go through guild training to do anything more. I'm all for being able to spice up out weapons, but not at this cost, anything added to forging should just be something Masters know how to do... we ARE masters of forging, after all. Make us buy special tools needed to embed gems/certain skins (tooth/bone inlay would be cool) to the hilts or engrave designs in the blades, make us hunt for the materials needed, heck make it something you're granted after every X number of weapons you complete.... but NO forging guild.

Starchitin, the OG

A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
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Re: Forging Ideas / Wish list 02/21/2019 06:12 PM CST

You realize this doesn't Make you do anything right? The suggestion is to let you do more if you want to do it and it's just fluff more/less.

__________________________
- Kobold in Disguise Falvicar, Blade of the Night

You swing a silver-edged black veil iron katana at Sevynne!

* Sevynne drops dead at your feet!
* Sevynne just bit the dust!
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Re: Forging Ideas / Wish list 02/21/2019 06:24 PM CST
You realize this doesn't Make you do anything right?>

While you might be technically correct, you would also be wrong. Anyone that makes blades to sell would be pressured into going through any such guild or selling their wares at a lower cost because they cannot customize them for the buyer.

After the months of staring at the screen watching the game scroll messages at you (cause even if you don't script it, that's what you're doing), you should just be able to do anything the system allows. Make us buy special tools from the workshop, hunt/forage for materials, etc.... but a guild is NOT the answer.

Starchitin, the OG

A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
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Re: Forging Ideas / Wish list 02/21/2019 07:08 PM CST
Honestly there is no pressure from the buyer. There's this wonderful thing called Alters which most people do. People don't care about the fluff so much as the care about the quality of the blade. In the end, the buy is buying what the blade does and what is it is made out of... not what it looks like. It's just a cosmetic suggestion with no pressure. Look at warrior harnesses. Do they really get pressured to pretty them up for somebody? I'd like to think not because you can altar them. However; sometimes the cosmetic portion is just pretty enough to not need/want an alteration. So I would have to disagree with you on the whole pressuring bit.

A guild is what you make the guild be, and really.. why not do a guild? Just because you wouldn't want to put in the time to do some things because you don't think they are worthwhile doesn't mean others wouldn't. How about suggesting what you would like to see in a guild as opposed to just saying No to everything? Who knows? Maybe the guild can be the answer to giving us the ability to reuse/re-purpose the metal used for another item. Turn that eonake short sword into a workable slab and make something else out of it (if there's enough of it to do so).

__________________________
- Kobold in Disguise Falvicar, Blade of the Night

You swing a silver-edged black veil iron katana at Sevynne!

* Sevynne drops dead at your feet!
* Sevynne just bit the dust!
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Re: Forging Ideas / Wish list 02/21/2019 07:10 PM CST
Heck, maybe a guild skill could even be the ability to combine slabs together so we don't have as much waste.

__________________________
- Kobold in Disguise Falvicar, Blade of the Night

You swing a silver-edged black veil iron katana at Sevynne!

* Sevynne drops dead at your feet!
* Sevynne just bit the dust!
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Re: Forging Ideas / Wish list 02/21/2019 08:00 PM CST
<Honestly there is no pressure from the buyer. There's this wonderful thing called Alters which most people do. People don't care about the fluff so much as the care about the quality of the blade. In the end, the buy is buying what the blade does and what is it is made out of... not what it looks like. It's just a cosmetic suggestion with no pressure. Look at warrior harnesses. Do they really get pressured to pretty them up for somebody? I'd like to think not because you can altar them. However; sometimes the cosmetic portion is just pretty enough to not need/want an alteration. So I would have to disagree with you on the whole pressuring bit.>

Have you never made anything for anyone in GS?

Sure they might be buying a perfect because of the stats, but when they're buying it from the maker I've yet to have one that doesn't want to control as much about the look as possible... esp when they're commissioning you to make one for them and have to wait a minimum of weeks to get it. I'm always asked to tailor the possible to suit a customer (metal, wood for the hilt, remove the hilt, heck even the quality desc on one occasion) and I'm usually asked if I can do things that are impossible outside GALD or auction quality items (embedding gems, leather wrapped hilts, etc).

In the warrior sheaths you use as an example, this is the exact reason every warrior that advertises to make sheaths for others points out they can embellish them with gems and skins, mentions the different styles, etc. Heck, some even offer to supply the extra materials needed if you don't already have them.

When I was still willing to add clasps and locks to containers via the rogue guild I had to keep a list of the clasp styles available, a stock of key blanks from EG that were no different from the ones in the guild other then their look, etc. Sheaths and clasps only cost in the thousands of silvers, forged weapons go in the millions of silvers... if customers COULD have more of a say in how they look, they derned sure would want them made their way and they'd be going to someone else if the player they were talking to couldn't do it.

Starchitin, the OG

A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
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Re: Forging Ideas / Wish list 02/21/2019 08:04 PM CST
<How about suggesting what you would like to see in a guild as opposed to just saying No to everything?>

I actually agreed with the rest of your OP, it was only the guild part I objected to.... which was a contingency if the rest was objected.

Starchitin, the OG

A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
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Re: Forging Ideas / Wish list 02/21/2019 10:30 PM CST
Just want... something is all.. sides alchemy / doodle dallying with shoes / making arrows/bolts that can be customed to design. I haven't actually had a paying customer for a weapon since people want perfects - which as you said - costs millions. That said, I still have crafted / sold some of my weaponry though they were not a perfect weapon (highest I've made are superior since luck evades me). I just thought to be able to do something with our skill for more fun. I'm honestly a bit surprised on the shields though my paladin is no fan of them.

I have the doubts on the suggested glyphs, but hey.. maybe they get created / sold on a bloodscrip or silver drain heh

__________________________
- Kobold in Disguise Falvicar, Blade of the Night

You swing a silver-edged black veil iron katana at Sevynne!

* Sevynne drops dead at your feet!
* Sevynne just bit the dust!
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Re: Forging Ideas / Wish list 02/21/2019 11:28 PM CST
I get it, and I'd like to see more ways to customize the weapons we make too. I just disagree that a guild is the way to do it, esp with the long monotony involved with mastering forging.

If anything, every X ranks we get in a weapon crafting skill could allow us to customize the look some way. Say 100 ranks in crafting allows us to dye the hilts, 200 ranks in one of the weapon types lets you scribe the blade/head, mastering lets you mount a gem on the hilt, etc.

The problem is, forging is a pretty old system and it would prolly require quite a bit of attention from NIR to make the changes being proposed no matter how we're given access to the abilities (see here for the kinds of buggy weirdness that can occur with the system: https://gswiki.play.net/Forged_weapon_dyeing ). That's not to say we shouldn't put out ideas and our opinions on them... eventually some NIR might be inspired by them and tackle implementing some of them.

Starchitin, the OG

A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
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Re: Forging Ideas / Wish list 02/22/2019 06:08 PM CST


>>but NO forging guild.

+1



Clunk

(Buy your swords at CBD weapons in Zul Logoth.)
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Re: Forging Ideas / Wish list 02/22/2019 06:25 PM CST

>>you to make one for them and have to wait a minimum of weeks to get it.

most of my commission customers end up waiting six months to a year. The longest order to fill took ten years, and by the time it was done the player had left the game (unless Regyy is still around?). The shortest order from scratch was two months.


The wait on my latest order has been a bit over two and a half months so far.



Clunk

(Buy your swords at CBD weapons in Zul Logoth.)
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Re: Forging Ideas / Wish list 02/22/2019 10:08 PM CST
<most of my commission customers end up waiting six months to a year. The longest order to fill took ten years, and by the time it was done the player had left the game (unless Regyy is still around?). The shortest order from scratch was two months>

It depends heavily on the material and specific weapon being made. It's going to take significantly longer to produce a golvern greatsword then it would to produce a steel dagger, for example. I got exceptionally lucky today in the forge and completed an order I'd estimated at 2 months in about 2.5 weeks... and it was 2 blades I was being asked for (when I agreed to do it, I was nervous I was giving too short a timeframe).

Honestly, though, I don't like taking commissions for perfects at all, even though I seem to regularly get talked into it. If I know someone's looking for something I can make, I'll make an effort to make one to sell to them but I prefer to just make what I fancy and put any resulting perfects up for auction.

Starchitin, the OG

A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
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Re: Forging Ideas / Wish list 03/11/2019 03:43 PM CDT
I'd like to see bonuses adjusted to make those items you take a long time hammering out (multiple forging cycles) over ones you can simply just smash once and move on to the next one. Let's face it, the two most common sought after weapons are maul and lance. Both of these, outside of needing to buy the glyphs from a merchant, are among the fastest weapons to try and craft perfects from. 1 forging cycle for each head piece.

The lesser used and much harder to craft weapons that take 3-7 forging cycles, people really don't waste their time with them.
Ball and chain....ha! Who wants a perfect one that takes 5 forging cycles?
Flamberge....a good two-hander, but weak compared to the maul against chain and plate....plus 7 forging cycles? WTF?
Any polearm over a lance.....why bother? Sure, the lance swing slow, but that's easily overcome if you want to go that route. What's the point of working on a awl-pike for 5 forging cycles when you can a lance with one?

Any piece that takes 1-2 forging cycles, when perfect, net that +3 AvD and +6% DF.
That would include the following weapon bases:
Kunckle-duster
Hook-knife
Knuckle-blade
Yierka-spur
Maul
Quarterstaff
Rapier
Dagger
Cudgel
Spear
Lance

Any piece that takes 3-4 forging cycles, when perfect, net a +4 AvD and +8% DF.
That would include the following weapon bases:
Troll-claw
Fist-scythe
Sai
Greataxe
Flail
Mattock
Handaxe
Cutlass
Backsword
Main gauche
Short-sword
Crowbill
Morning star
Ridgemace
Spikestar
Pilum
Halberd
Katar

Any piece that takes 5-6 forging cycles, when perfect, net a +5 AvD and +10% DF.
That would include the following weapon bases:
Estoc
Broadsword
Longsword
Warhammer
Ball and chain
Hammer of Kai
Trident
Awl-pike
Warsword

Any piece that takes 7+ (I don't know of any that take more than 7) forging cycles, when perfect, net a +6 AvD and +12% DF.
That would include the following weapon bases:
Flamberge
Greatsword


Anything Superior or Well-made will still retain their current bonuses we have. I only suggest this change because it would be nice to see other weapons getting forged and sought after instead of the pesky single forging cycle ones. Even with a weapon such as a greatsword getting a perfect and adding +6 AvD and +12% DF, it would still be just behind a maul when going against chain and plate.

It sucks hammering out something for 4+ forging cycles (especially if you're going after something stupid like a perfect greatsword or flamberge). If you have a metal that takes 6/7/8/9 minutes a forging cycle and you can't even finish a single blade in the hour time you have in the forge. It's a long and grueling process that feels like there is very little reward over a simple item to forge, such as a maul or lance.

It would also be nice to see magic metals play a better overall role.
For example:
Razern; on perfect weapons adds +1 extra point of crit weighting
gornar/rhimar/drakar/zorchar; on perfect add a small boost to their flaring power
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Re: Forging Ideas / Wish list 03/12/2019 08:11 AM CDT
>> I only suggest this change because it would be nice to see other weapons getting forged and sought after instead of the pesky single forging cycle ones.

I'm not sure your experience matches that of others but maybe it is normal? I get the appeal of lances and mauls but I've probably made way more greataxes, warswords, morningstars, main-gauches, and daggers (the only one on your short cycle list) than I have either of those two weapons.

That said, lance should probably be moved out of the 1-2 forging cycle group (opinion mine) and otherwise, larger weapons in general automatically get a larger bonus at 6% DF due to having a larger base DF to begin with. Clearly DF bonus wasn't the primary driving factor when forging times were determined though (nor should it be).

I really don't think the issue here is forging... it has to do with people's desire to min-max and use, what they perceive, to be the best in class weapon for their character. There have been numerous suggestions to give some love to less used weapons and I think it would be better overall to do this for the weapon base vs. only for player forged versions of these weapons.\

I definitely agree it would be nice to see materials matter more across the spectrum. Eliminating breakage (not something I am advocating bringing back) and allowing all metals to go to the same base weight (with very few exceptions) really took a lot of the differentiating factors out of the equation for weapon and armor materials.

-- Robert

Wex winks before saying, "Cravin' some winterberry ale? Head on over to White Haven!"
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Re: Forging Ideas / Wish list 03/12/2019 11:02 AM CDT
<I'm not sure your experience matches that of others but maybe it is normal? I get the appeal of lances and mauls but I've probably made way more greataxes, warswords, morningstars, main-gauches, and daggers (the only one on your short cycle list) than I have either of those two weapons.>

That lance, sai, and maul glyphs are merchant only and I haven't run across a merchant selling them is what's kept me from even bothering to learn how to forge brawling, THW, and polearms. It has little to do with the number of forging cycles needed though and more to do with the limited market for most of the other weapons in those bases. So far, most of my focus has been on morning stars, war hammers, and falchions... with any left over metal being fashioned into daggers.

I do have a set of glyphs for rapiers, but I stopped bothering with those when I couldn't sell a perfect vaalorn rapier even after reducing the asking price to less then half what I've sold perfect faenor falchions and daggers for.

Starchitin, the OG

A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
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Re: Forging Ideas / Wish list 03/14/2019 03:45 PM CDT
I don't suppose it'd be possible for these to get added as glyphs, even if only acquired through a merchant...

A) two handed sword
B) Flail (two handed)

Just respectfully requesting. Of course.. it'd be reallllly nice to be able to forge a katana or claidhmore but I won't push my luck on asking :D



__________________________
- Kobold in Disguise Falvicar, Blade of the Night

You swing a silver-edged black veil iron katana at Sevynne!

* Sevynne drops dead at your feet!
* Sevynne just bit the dust!
Reply