Ok, I wasn't sure where to put this. I thought about putting it in a certain guild's folder, but I didn't know if it should go there.

I am looking for info on the Locksmith Union. How to join, what the requirements are, and any other information. barbarian_of_elanthia@yahoo.com is my e-mail or barbofelanthia is my SN. Or just post it here. Thanks.

--Raydell

---

"Well folks, you know what that means... now I'll do a dance."

As for requirements, it is 150 disarm and lockpicking for non thieves. Other stuff listed on the site.

The link is http://www.lurksponge.com/locksmithunion/home.html

Brabs


http://mywebpages.comcast.net/FatherJarle/index.html

Live by the shield, die by the shield.

Well, since that last link only lead to the Home page and not the rest of the frameset, here's the actual link to The Locksmith Union website: http://www.lurksponge.com/locksmithunion.

Enjoy.

~ the player of Ailyne and others

I wrote this in a hurry, so it has a more dogmatic tone than I wanted it to. But it's simply a collection of my opinions. I welcome anyone in joining in to discuss these and other things regarding the locksmith union.

One of the topics brought up at the meeting was about the leadership. One thing I'm concerned about is that the more responsibility is centralized in a single leader, the more vulnerable the union is to that person simply vanishing one day and leaving the union to fall apart. The current state of the union is an example. Kill the head and the body dies.

A leader is fine, and they need the authority to be effective, but we need a solid process of succession established so that one of the sub-leaders can step into the top spot quickly if needed, after which a more involved process or vote for choosing the next leader could take place.

The sub-leader list could be a separately maintained list made up of interested parties including leader candidates who were not elected, province reps, and anyone else who wishes to try out for the sub-leader list. At least a better process for succession might make loss of a leader a bit smoother transition to a new leader.

Ideally a departing leader will at least give everyone some warning that they're leaving, but in the case this doesn't happen, there should be a previously voted upon set of criteria for defining when a current leader is to be declared as having "abandoned their post." At this point a new leader will be chosen. This should help minimize the chaotic time when the union might be leaderless.

There was a intense debate about exactly what qualifications make up a potential leader. We're not all going to agree on this one. There's a faction that strongly believes the leader should be able to make lockpicks, or in other words be a thief. I can sympathize with this view to some degree, since the union from it's beginning is thief born and thief bred. It's fits thieves better than other guilds.

The bad news is that, barring some disaster, everyone will soon be able to make lockpicks. That's not a good criteria really. Now I personally would be thrilled if the leader is a thief since that would follow the pattern from long ago. But I seriously don't think limiting the leader to being a thief would fly today. For one thing it could hurt the union. There was certainly resistance to the idea at the meeting. It might turn off people who would otherwise join. If you want people to join today, you might have to not make them think they're somehow second class members.

My ideal leader would be someone who can bring the right skills to the position. Skills of organizing and planning events and running union business effectively. They need to be reliable and honestly announce when they plan on stepping down rather than just vanishing and leaving everyone hanging. Honestly I'm not going to vote for a less qualified candidate simply because they can carve a lockpick or are a thief. The bottom line is anyone can open boxes. Currently only thieves can make or fix lockpicks, but that will change one day. Even if it doesn't, it's not as important as someone having a passion and qualifications for leading the union. It doesn't make the slightest difference whether the CEO of Ford knows how to fill a gas tank. It only matters that he can run the company properly. Now having said that, yes I hope the leadership remains in thief hands.

One suggestion to spice things up a bit is perhaps instead of a generic "key" that every member would have, perhaps they could be distinctive in some way based upon how many ranks in lockpicking (locksmithing) the keyholder has, as in maybe every 100 ranks. Perhaps color or description or some other characteristic. Yes, this would be similar to belts in martial arts. Might give a scale of ranking that provides a bit more interest than the key does currently. Would probably have to use tellexp or a GM to verify lockpicking ranks.

Just a few thoughts.

Kaxis

---

Driving in like the irresistable force of a cyclone, you thrust a peach knife at a sky giant. A sky giant fails to dodge, moving directly into the blow.

Walcar says to Lyneya, "Glad you could make it. Had me worried."

Lyneya says, "First, let me tell you a few things that WONT happen tonight."

Lyneya says, "No one is going to be given Master control of the group today."

Lyneya asks, "Is anyone logging this for the people who cant be here?"

Lyneya asks, "Please?"

Drevid says, "Not me."

Drevid says, "I am tog I can't type."

Comfrin says, "I'll log it, sheesh."

Drevid snickers.

Lyneya says, "Thank you very much."

Casserah says, "Drevid can't think or talk normally either."

Lyneya says, "Ok. As I said, no one is going to be given master control of the group[ tonight. Tonight's purpose is to find out who WANTS to be in that position, what they plan to do, and where to go from there."

Shannodoah says, "I am logging as well."

Lyneya says, "Another thing I want to make mention of, just so there is no confusion on the subject..."

Lyneya says, "The Locksmith Union will not become an official Order."

Walcar asks, "Ever?"

Lyneya says, "Not any time soon, no. We're not currently sanctioning ANY new Orders."

Casserah says, "She said things that aren't happening tonight."

Schvartzgonif says, "Official. we Don't need anythin official. taxes? bah."

Wyspe says, "But we outnumber most Orders."

Markhor says, "When Kraelyst created it, he made it not an order on purpose. His reasons are still valid."

Lyneya says, "Again people -- please remove your floaties, snake charms, glowy thingies.."

Lyneya says, "Ok. With those two disclaimers out there."

Lyneya says, "Let me try to keep this as organized as possible.."

Lyneya says, "I'm going to open a list for questions first, if there are any."

Lyneya just opened the sign-up list.

Schvartzgonif adds her name to the sign-up list.

Slital adds his name to the sign-up list.

Schvartzgonif is next.

Lyneya nods to Schvartzgonif.

Schvartzgonif says, "I was thinking that rather than put One person in "charge", there should be a "group" of five or so, for the 5 provinces. That way no one person, if they can't be around for awhile, will be in the positiion of not being able to have the group function."

Lyneya says, "Thats certainly a possibility I would consider. Right now, you all dont have the membership numbers to support such a council, but maybe in the future."

Kyodan says, "Okay I am awake."

Schvartzgonif asks, "How many people do you have as being memebers?"

Walcar says to Lyneya, "We have alot."

Markhor says, "We do have city reps... not all of them are still around."

Lyneya says, "I dont have the numbers right in front of me, unfortunately. There are what, 20-ish of you online right now."

Kaeta says, "I'm not a member."

Kyodan asks, "Doesnt Jil still have her website listing all the members?"

Walcar says to Lyneya, "Twenty times the other orders online."

Casserah says, "It's gone."

Kyodan asks Casserah, "When did that happen?"

Casserah asks, "Uhh. Last spring or summer?"

Casserah says, "She stopped paying for it, presumably."

Dunrook says to Kyodan, "It got hacked like a year ago. then disappeared a few months later."

Kyodan says, "Ah. Well I dont ever pay attention so..."

Kyodan says, "Oh right I heard about the hacking."

Lyneya says, "Ok, moving on..."

Schvartzgonif says, "We should put it onto elanthepedia or something."

Slital asks, "I'm just a little fuzzy on this. What is the purpose of the union?"

Comfrin says, "Wow."

Walcar exclaims, "Blasphamy!"

Slital asks, "I'm new, what?"

Lyneya says, "It depends upon who you ask. I'll let your fellow players enlighten you on that one."

Kaeta says, "Well, he might be new."

Casserah says, "About what you'd expect. An organized group of box pickers. Except not so organized now."

Markhor says, "You bring us the boxies you gather when you hunt, and we open them for you."

Kyodan asks Slital, "Uh okay this meeting is for members not to actually create one you know that right?"

Slital says, "I was told it was an open meeting. I had a question about it."

Shannodoah says, "The purpose of the Locksmith Union origionaly was to provide Picking and Disarming services to Elanthia by skilled individuals as a general service, and regulate the making and distribution of the Lockpick market."

Lyneya says, "It is an open meeting, and you're welcome."

Schvartzgonif says, "And fer locksmith crafters."

Kyodan says, "Well yeah I didnt mean he wasnt."

Lyneya says to Shannodoah, "Well said."

Slital says, "Well, it sounds good. I'd like to be a part of your organization."

Lyneya asks Slital, "Does that answer your question?"

Slital says, "Yes, thank you."

Walcar is next.

Walcar says, "About the having a 5 member group in charge.."

Walcar says, "We really do have that. But having a "council" would just put us one step closer to a "Order."

Walcar says, "The problem we have is being stuck without a speaker."

Casserah asks, "Are you asking a question?"

Walcar says to Casserah, "I am talking and using my turn."

Shannodoah says, "I believe there will be a seperate list for general speaking Walcar, is what she means."

Kyodan says, "Sorry."

Walcar says, "Question then.."

Walcar asks, "Once a speaker is chosen and a future vision is set is there a remote chance of becoming a offical order?"

Lyneya says, "Extremely unlikely."

Walcar says, "Then I want nothing to do with it."

Lyneya says, "Fair enough."

Walcar says, "Give it to him."

Drevid asks, "Taking your ball and going home?"

Lyneya says, "Ok, next question then..."

Casserah says, "Well, that's one way to handle disputes."

Kartaan is next.

Walcar says, "I will stay in the Union but not seek speakership."

Kartaan asks, "I have been actively seeking a union official for membership - and was very dissapointed when I learned that the website had dissapeared. I think a lot of potential members have been lost because there was no way to find information about the group. My question is, does anyone have a copy of the site, and if so, could I offer my services to host / re-activate the site for group use?"

Shannodoah says, "I have contacted Jilette about getting a copy of the Register and HTML files."

Lyneya says, "That is a question I do not have the answer to, as any websites out there were player run."

Lyneya says to Shannodoah, "Thank you."

Markhor says, "I would also be willing to help update it."

Kartaan says, "Please email me if you would like free hosting / development services..."

Kartaan says, "Thats all I have at the moment... other than I would really like to see this become active again."

Shannodoah says, "After the meeting."

Kyodan is next.

Kyodan says, "Sorry slow typer."

Lyneya says, "No worries."

Comfrin says, "\quietl you only had 20 minutes to type it before hand."

Kyodan asks, "Um okay we arent going to be an order or anything but can we become more than just something common?"

Kyodan says, "I wasnt here 20 minutes earlier I was watching the final miner being rescused thanks."

Kyodan says, "Okay lemmie rephrase that."

Lyneya says, "What the Union is now isnt common at all. There is only one other group with the same setup as you all, and they are defunct. The only problem you guys have at the moment is that there is no leadership."

Shannodoah says, "The locksmith Union was never common. I would like for you to point out one Order, that has been around as long as the Union, and over that span of years provided services, raffles and Event's to the extent this orginization has."

Arandrowse looks at Shannodoah and applauds!

Walcar says to Shannodoah, "We are not an order and won't be."

Shannodoah says, "We dont need to be an order, we never were, and dont need to be now."

Kyodan says, "Right. But I mean the orders have stuff to help out new kids and stuff like that and I think that the locksmith union should do stuff like that too but also organize events."

Kyodan says, "The box raffle was great but there is more we can do."

Walcar says to Shannodoah, "Then cant compare us to them."

Arandrowse says, "Could I interject that I believe untill some behind the scenes mechanics get setup that have been a long time coming, and a long time till coming out, there will be no new official orders..."

Arandrowse says, "At least I believe, that to be the case..."

Lyneya says, "Those are all fantastic ideas, and something you can either implement as leader, or take up with the new leader when the time comes."

Markhor says, "Let's get back to Kyodan's question."

Kyodan says, "I am too lazy to be leader but thanks."

Walcar asks, "That would make us even more orderish. Thought we couldnt be one?"

Lyneya says, "Well, then put your thoughts down on paper and share them with the new leader when you can, they are good ideas."

Kyodan says, "Good deal."

Walcar adds his name to the sign-up list.

Walcar is next.

Amrod says, "The only time I ever think being the leader is a good idea is when I'm drunk."

Walcar asks, "Does not being an offical order keep us from doing everything and more than they do?"

Kyodan asks, "Yeah see I was wondering about that. Wasnt Purehand on the list before me?"

Kaeta says to Kyodan, "He removed himself."

Lyneya says, "You will not have all of the same tools they have, no."

Kyodan says, "Oh okay."

Walcar asks, "So what order do we have to elminate for that to happen?"

Lyneya says to Purehand, "Can you rejoin the list please and then leave it again? You're stuck on it."

Walcar says, "I've been speaking to high ranking members of other orders which seem to have fallen apart."

Kyodan says to Walcar, "We wont be an order cause we will be blowing up more things."
.
Lyneya says, "Becoming an Order is not a part of this discussion tonight."

Purehand says, "Yeah, skipped me twice."

Walcar asks, "If another order disbands would the Union be allowed to move in?"

Drevid says, "You don't understand Walcar. We don't want to be an order. Well most of the membership."

Lyneya says, "Lets see if we can unstick Purehand now."

Purehand is next.

Kyodan says, "Orders are stuffy. Hence the word order."

Lyneya asks Purehand, "Did you have a question?"

Purehand says, "Yeah."

Purehand says, "On the topic of standards."

Wyspe exclaims, "Fine, lets be the first Chaos!"

Purehand asks, "Do folks feel that 150 ranks still cuts the mustard?"

Purehand says, "Getting those ranks isn't nearly as hard as it used to be."

Markhor says, "The requirements got lowered to 75."

Kaeta says, "I'm only around 120."

Purehand says, "Yikes."

Kyodan says, "Yeah if it didnt I wouldnt be here."

Slital exclaims, "The first Disorder!"

Walcar says, "Guilded is accepted."

Purehand says, "Guess, I'm thinking it should go the other direction is all."

Kyodan says, "No dont make it higher."

Arandrowse says, "I have been stuck at 157 for a while now."

Kyodan says, "Its tough enough for some people to learn all that."

Purehand says, "Kinda seems like... well people in the locksmith union, should be good at locksmithing."

Walcar asks, "Define good?"

Kyodan says, "75 is good and people have to start somewhere."

Walcar says, "We all can't be Markhor."

Arandrowse says, "Yes, they should be, but as Walcar said what is good."

Amrod says, "To be honest, we need lower skilled members."

Kyodan says, "Would be scary if we could."

Schvartzgonif says, "Yeah, we kin be better."

Arandrowse says, "And we need growth, and people to help at the lower end."

Shannodoah expounds patiently and clearly to you on some nuances of Mechanical Lore that had heretofore escaped you.

Kyodan says, "Exactly."

Slital says, "Could have a tiered membership."

Kyodan says, "We need more lower class people like myself."

Kyodan says, "Wait..."

Shannodoah says, "There have always been different levels of skill involved. The Union has it's star members, but it also gives lesser skilled locksmiths a chance to learn and work along side their peers."

Schvartzgonif says, "Slum folks."

Purehand says, "I guess I don't see the 'locksmith union' representing much then."

Markhor says, "I think that's why the requirements got lowered."

Amrod says to Shannodoah, "Exactly what I was going to say."

Walcar says to Purehand, "Lack of a speaker to issue new keys and barely active city reps is to blame."

Shannodoah says to Lyneya, "Madam GameMaster, I would like to move that we move past the Quesion Phase of the Meeting, unless anyone has a Question at this moment."

Kyodan says to Purehand, "If everyone in the union had to have high skills then it would be more of something for people with alot of time to train would join."

Arandrowse says, "I agree that the Union should have a ranking, like Markhor can be a Master Union smith... or something, and I could be an apprentice smith..."

Lyneya says, "Does anyone else have a question? Last chance to join the list and have the floor...."

Druesyllia says, "Everyone has to start some where, if the ranks are too high young people won't want to join."

Kyodan asks, "Can I be Chaos smith?"

Schvartzgonif says, "Madam i suggest a rank of 100 in locksmithin."

Kaeta says, "I've been meaning to join for years, and I view 150 as fair."

Dunrook adds his name to the sign-up list.

Amrod says, "I believe those are things for the leadership to decide at a later time."

Kyodan shakes his head.

Walcar says to Kyodan, "That would require further use of tools that we dont have."

Kyodan says, "150 is too high."

Purehand says to Kyodan, "For you."

Arandrowse says, "I'll need to see your skills, and then come up with a good requirement for Chaos smith."

Markhor says, "Changing the requirements is an issue that can be dealt with by the new leader, when chosen and empowered."

Dunrook asks, "How would the requirements work when the skills get combined also?"

Lyneya says, "The exact numbers can be discussed and debated with the future leadership. Its good to know that its a concern among the membership."

Kyodan says to Purehand, "For alot of people. We dont all have tons of hours to devote to lockpicking."

Dunrook says, "Or if the skills get combined to like boxes or whatever ksills."

Kyodan says to Purehand, "And how long did it take you to get so high anyway? People should have to be training for 2 years to join."

Schvartzgonif says, "I think more'n one should have the power of makin new members. thats the main problem of the lack of a speaker."

Amrod says, "Don't remind me about skill combination, I was having a good day."

Kyodan says, "Shouldnt."

Slital asks, "Are we to nominations yet?"

Markhor says to Kyodan, "I have the hours... I lack the boxies to train on."

Purehand says to Kyodan, "Then they shouldn't be in a locksmith union."

Arandrowse says, "I think we are getting called to order Lady, Gentles, and Union Smiths..."

Kaeta says to Kyodan, "Skillset disadvantage is still a skillset disadvantage."

Wyspe says, "How bout, only when ya carve a grandmaster iron lockpick wit yer full name? den ya kin join."

Kyodan says to Markhor, "Go to the abby. They have some."

Comfrin asks Kyodan, "So what your saying is that you should be as lazy as possible and be pretty worthless to be able to join the union?"

Kyodan says to Comfrin, "No, what I am saying is people have outside lives and cant spend 24/7 learning a skill."

[The Crossing, Town Green Pond]
You stand on the bank of a tiny pond in the middle of the square. Cool water laps against the soft, velvety silt that covers the shore, and in the distance you can hear the bustle of the town. Sitting in the middle of the pond is a massive gelapod, looking content and not the least bit aggressive. You also see a sign-up list, a domesticated gelapod and some junk.
Also here: Wanderer Arandrowse, Agent Shannodoah, Player Exiar, Dogushan, Blade Vixen Glynnes, Legendary Barbarian Caale, Philosopher Schvartzgonif, Urbanite Alesea, GameMaster Lyneya, Steadfast Casserah, Monster Drevid, Libertine Purehand who is sitting, Healer Kaeta, Urban Ranger Amrod, Shadow Dancer Kaxis, Lockpicking Authority Markhor, Fire Priest Kyodan, Death Dealer Wyspe, Authoritarian Comfrin, Ecologist Dunrook, Nightshadow Kartaan, Shadow Bane Walcar, War Healer Svennis who is sitting, Clown Druesyllia, Slital and Student Nideaya who is sitting.
Obvious paths: out.

Walcar says, "If I can get the required ranks anyone can."

Lyneya says, "Ok. Moving on."

Walcar says, "150 is fine."

Purehand says, "All I'm sayin is, theres a point where the bar is low enough that the designation means nothing."

Comfrin says, "Point proven."

Arandrowse says, "Where are we going from here GM Lyneya."

Kyodan says, "And I trained it for 5 years."

Shannodoah says, "People, please, respect the lady who wishes it to be silent."

Lyneya says, "Ok. I'm going to open the list now for people who have prepared a statement for the group."

Lyneya taps a sign-up list.

Shannodoah is next.

Shannodoah says, "Some of you folks know me, some of you dont. But I've been a Member of the Union since its formation along with Markhor, and some few others that are still awake."

Shannodoah says, "What a time to fog out."

Lyneya asks Shannodoah, "You were saying?"

Lyneya grins at Shannodoah.

Kyodan says, "I would say fog monster but that show is over."

Shannodoah says, "Anyways, The Union has always been a loose orginization of pickers, anarcists, troublemakers and peace keepers. We have them all."

Shannodoah says, "We have members in every Province, political affiliation, Role-Player, Non-Role-Players alike."

Wyspe says, "And some people are all of da above."

Kyodan says, "I wanna be an anarcist."

Shannodoah says, "My point is, while the Union has never, and will never be an Official Order."
Kaeta says, "Them pesky "never" and "always" qualifiers."

Walcar mutters to himself.

Shannodoah says, "Our ties to the community run deeper than most of these groups could dream of. We make a large portion with the history of this game."

Kyodan asks, "Whats the big deal about orders anyway?"

Arandrowse says, "The prestige, and the extra perks..."

Kaeta asks Arandrowse, "Like?"

Kyodan says, "Really lock pickers drink booze."

Shannodoah says, "Our presence was known, and will be known again. We have our fingers in everything, and everywhere, we are the eyes, the ears, and the Wet Sounding POP that comes from their back when their not looking."

Kyodan says, "Okay thats a gross thought."

Walcar says to Shannodoah, "Very inspirational."

Shannodoah says, "So I guess my point is, Don't change whats not brokem, just get it moving again."

Amrod says, "Shann's been drinking again."

Kyodan says, "Lucky. Drink while you can. One day it gets taken away from you."

Amrod is next.

Shannodoah says, "I'm done Lady Game Master."

Amrod says, "Okay, what I have to offer is similar to what Shann just said..."

Amrod says, "I think."

Amrod says, "I'm not sure what he just said, actually."

Amrod says, "Anyway... this debate over being an official order doesn't matter. What we need to focus on is getting back to where we were..."

Kyodan says, "He said if it aint broke dont fix it."

Amrod says, "And, then moving beyond that point."

Kaeta says, "I think "Get 'er asses in gear, pick a new leader, stop whining, and move on."

Amrod says, "So, if Walcar doesn't wish to take the reins, then I will support whoever is willing to devote the time necessary."

Amrod says, "Also, even if as Lyneya says, we can't have a 'council', whatever that is."

Walcar says, "Depends."

Kartaan points at Shannodoah.

Amrod says, "We still need some redundancy in our leadership, so that we won't fall apart again if someone suddenly leaves the game."

Kartaan says, "Thats your voice of reason right there."

Kartaan says, "Thats your leader."

Kartaan points at Shannodoah.

Slital asks, "Are we at the part where we make nominations?"

Markhor asks, "A vice leader, you mean?"

Kyodan asks, "Shouldnt the leader be nomiated?"

Amrod says, "Also, I think whatever happens tonight, we should take up Kartaan on his offer, and make him a member immediately."

Kyodan says, "Err voted on."

Walcar inhales a great swallow of air.

Amrod says, "Anyway, that is all I have to say. I will support whoever thinks they can do the job."

Amrod says, "Thanks."

Kyodan asks, "Doesnt someone need to be able to make keys to do that?"

Lyneya smiles at Amrod.

Walcar nods to Kyodan.

Kyodan is next.

Schvartzgonif says, "Thats been the major problem, nobody to make keys."

Kyodan says, "Okay. I agree that we need to have a good leader and to set up induction rules and all that."

Markhor says, "We have rules."

Kyodan says, "However, I think we, while we dont have a council, need a vice person or whatever to make sure that said leader doesnt become a tyrant as it were."

Kyodan says, "Well you know what I mean."

Arandrowse says, "I nominate Markhor as chief Locksmith..."

Arandrowse asks, "Anyone to second my nomination?"

Kyodan says, "I think making the union impossible to join just so you can weed out the lower skilled people like me isnt the way to go."

Walcar says, "He doesnt want it."

Markhor says, "Any City Rep has the capability of granting a key, but the rules state that an applicant must be approved by the leader before said key be given."

Kyodan says, "Again not all of us can devote the time needed to get 150 or more in disarm. It took me 5 years to get the magic I have now. People shouldnt have to wait that long to join."

Markhor says, "That's why there haven't been any new members in so long - Jilette hasn't approved any."

Kyodan says, "Except me."

Shannodoah adds his name to the sign-up list.

Kyodan says, "And thats cause I asked and she was like okay."

Kyodan says, "But I did have the stats tho."

Lyneya says, "One thing that you all should keep in mind.. the Union is not set up the same way that Orders are. If and when I do appoint a new "keymaker" for lack of a better word, there is still the possibility that the previous "keymakers" will return.. and when they do, they will still be able to make keys."

Arandrowse says, "Yes, and I haven't been able to become a member either..."

Kyodan says to Arandrowse, "I had to harrass Jil to log on to make me one too."

Kyodan says, "So dont feel bad."

Kyodan says, "So basically we need someone who can be objective."

Arandrowse says, "Oh, well. I don't know her... it is a her, email or AIM or anything..."

Kartaan quietly says, "It took me three months just to learn Jilette's name..."

Schvartzgonif says, "Obviously she didn't have the time to devote to it."

Shannodoah is next.

Kyodan says to Arandrowse, "She barely checks it. It wouldnt matter."

Kyodan says to Schvartzgonif, "Um actually apparently she moved on to other projects."
>
Arandrowse asks, "The fog is nasty?"

Shannodoah says, "I would just like to add, that whoever the Leader is, should be someone that is available largely in game a lot to handle matters, and also knowledgeable enough about the Union to run it effectively."

Lyneya nods at Shannodoah, obviously agreeing with his views.

Lyneya says, "Its a big commitment."

Kyodan says, "And knows how to plan stuff and is willing to take suggestions."

Arandrowse says, "Seems that way, seems almost a job for multiple people..."

Shannodoah says, "We need someone who is going to be here, and has a wide open area of availability."

Schvartzgonif nods to Arandrowse.

Shannodoah says, "Thats all."

Lyneya nods in agreement.

Walcar is next.

Walcar says, "After careful talks and hearing the words and notions of my fellow locksmiths it is obvious that the Union doesn't wish to become an Order."

Walcar says, "So I will not seek to change things that are not wanted."

Walcar says, "I care deeply for the members of the Union and for what we have done for Elanthia as a whole."

Walcar says, "We do have our hands in everything, not just boxes either."

Walcar says, "I feel this needs to continue but on a grander scale."

Kyodan asks, "Doesnt that just complicate things tho?"

Walcar says, "Expanding operations, recruiting new smiths."

Walcar says, "Getting even greater converage."

Walcar says, "I spoke with a bunch of people who say my title.."

Amrod says, "Those things will happen on their own once we're up and running again."

Walcar asks, "They asked.. Whats the Locksmith Union?"

Amrod says, "And hopefully people will start keeping their boxes again, rather than letting the janitor eat them all."

Walcar says, "This shouldnt happen."

Walcar says, "We as a group need to change and get back going again. Stronger than before."

Arandrowse says, "Yes, EATING BOXES should be illegal."

Amrod says, "The janitor should move all boxes into my vault."

Kyodan says, "Only Markhor should be allowed to eat boxes."

Walcar says, "Needing to know what can and cannot be done would help us."

Markhor says, "He still gets the junk."

Arandrowse says, "The good minerals are in boxies."

Walcar says, "Would be perfect choice."

Kyodan says, "We should have an honorary box botcher tho. I nominate myself."

Walcar says, "But he doesnt wish it."

Walcar says, "He wants to stay the City Rep for Crossing."

Kyodan asks Markhor, "Ugh why?"

Markhor says to Kyodan, "I'll get to that when it's my turn."

Walcar says, "I don't know what else to say."

Walcar says, "We need to get things rolling again."

Kyodan says to Markhor, "Actually I meant that it means you have to deal with crossing. I wouldnt wish that on my enemy."

Walcar says, "Alright."

Walcar motions to Markhor.

Lyneya says, "Ok. Lets see what others have to say then."

Walcar says, "Next."

Markhor is next.


Markhor says to Kyodan, "You stay here too."

Markhor says, "Okay."

Kyodan says, "I rest my point."

Schvartzgonif says, "I nominate Shannodoah."

Markhor says, "About the city reps, my most recent records indicate the following..."

Kartaan quietly says, "Second."

Markhor recites:

"City Representatives:
The Crossing: Markhor
Riverhaven: Sothios
Therenborough: Ezly
Shard: Slyder
Ratha co-Reps: Pawgetz / Tyoryn
Aesry: no one
Hibarnhvidar: Vequ
Forfedhar: Mingold"


Kartaan says, "Wait - I dont count yet."

Markhor recites:

"Non-City Reps:
Travelling: Druesyllia
Empath: Naeya"

Dunrook says, "Eww.. Pawgetz is a moron."

Casserah says, "Naeya has been gone for a long time, too."

Markhor says, "Now, I know some of these people aren't around anymore..."

Kyodan asks, "Wait EZLY represents Theren??"

Walcar asks Markhor, "Previously?"

Druesyllia says, "Before she left, she made me Shard's rep."

Markhor says, "And need to be replaced."

Kaeta asks, "Mingold still around?"

Purehand says to Kaeta, "I wish."

Markhor says to Walcar, "Last records."

Kyodan asks, "Doesnt he go around trying to fight people?"

Markhor says, "I just wanted to get the list out there so people could see it."

Markhor says, "I did not want to start a discussion right here and now."

Lyneya says, "Thank you."

Markhor says, "So shut up."

Kaeta asks Markhor, "How old is that list?"

Shannodoah says, "I will add the before Jilette left, I was also appointed the Event Coordinator."

Markhor says, "Now, to get it out of the way: I do not want the leadership position."

Markhor says, "I am happy being the representative for the Crossing, and experience has taught me that I am not good in a leadership role."

Markhor says, "Reps do have some responsibilities, at a level I am comfortable with."

Kyodan asks, "I know it isnt my turn but can I add a quick thing to what Markhor just said please?"

Markhor says, "We induct approved members, after checking that they meet requirements, for example."

Markhor says, "With that out of the way, I support Walcar."

Markhor says, "He was instrumental in organizing this meeting, for one thing. He has the drive, the initiative."

Markhor says, "I'm done./."
>
Markhor nods to Lyneya.

Amrod says, "I have to go for a while... good luck everyone. I'll still be here."

Lyneya says, "Ok."

Lyneya says, "Lets move on."

Enwah is next.

Enwah says, "I just want to say, new leadership does be chosen. However I hope it is someone who has a clear and calm head, and not someone that will "give up" or appear to when things dont go like they plan, or like they want, just to turn around and make a comeback and spin it like Fox News on roids. Thats happened once tonight, and personally, its not leadership Quality. The leader of the Union needs to be able to have the ability to make Lockpicks, or it doesnt make sense. Thats all."

Kyodan says to you, "Fixed. Thats fixed news."

Kaeta asks Kyodan, "I thought it was Fake News?"

Kyodan says, "Same thing."

Walcar says, "My hesty words were spoken without knowing certain tools. Its been fixed."

Wyspe asks, "When things like carving and alchemy start up, wont anyone be able to carve lockpicks?"

Kyodan asks, "Whats hesty mean?"

Walcar says, "Hasty."

Lyneya whispers, "Anything to add?"

Enwah says, "It doesnt change the fact theyw ere hastey. Your words were, you dont want it."

Kyodan says, "My brain stopped working two years ago. Lemmie alone."

Arandrowse says, "I believe so."

Kaeta says to Wyspe, "More or less. They'll have the potential, but if they don't train that skill, then no lockpicks."

Lyneya says, "Ok then. Something to think about. Lets move on.."

Kyodan says, "Two things. First what Markhor said."

Kyodan says, "Markhor is the heart of the locksmith union."

Walcar asks, "Why should making lockpicks be a requirement?"

Kyodan says, "Everyone knows that."

Kaeta says, "He's like the mascot."

Kartaan whispers, "he cannot be leader - even if he is chosen, he will not be. We will all be standing here again like this in 2 years..."

Schvartzgonif says, "Because its the LOCKSMITH union. not the Forgers, not the healers, not the PHA. The Locksmith union."

Kyodan says, "Honestly? I dont see him as a leader. I like knowing that he is just one of us, constantly asking for boxes and just being there for everyone."

Enwah asks Walcar, "Because its a Locksmith Union. Would you be hired to bake in a bakery if you didnt know how to turn the oven on?"

Walcar says, "Its the locksmith union. Not the Thief guild union."

Wyspe says, "He's not being helpful, he's addicted."

Kyodan says, "I think trying to make him be something he isnt wont help anything at all and it will just make him hate it. And I dont ever wanna think of Markhor hating boxes."

Casserah says, "I don't really think anyone wants to force Markhor to be leader if he doesn't want to be."

Lyneya says, "The person who leads needs to want to lead."

Kyodan says, "So Markhor just needs to be Markhor and thats all, even if he is in control of the crossing and only a crazy person would do that."

Kaxis says, "I would be good symbolism if the leader is a thief, but I'll have to vote for whoever I think will make the most effective leader."

Kyodan says, "Second."

Schvartzgonif says, "I don't see someone that comes in and says, no, i quit. would be good for a leadership role."

Kyodan says, "The new leader needs to be impartial."

Kyodan says, "And I will misspell words if I damn well wanna."

Kyodan says, "Anyway."

Kyodan says, "The new leader needs to listen and respect everyone reguardless of how they feel of said person."

Slital says, "Agreed."

Walcar says, "I hate everyone equally."

Kyodan says, "For example, say Purehand became leader and hated my guts. That doesnt mean he shouldnt take what I say seriously."

Kyodan says, "Except me."

Kyodan says, "I am his pride and joy."

Walcar says, "Only because mom would kill me if I did."

Kyodan says, "That and I am just so gosh darn cute...."

Shannodoah says, "Folks, lets try and respect the people whose turn it to speak."

Kyodan says, "Everyone can gag at that, its okay."

Schvartzgonif says, "A Leader should be able to listen to others, take their input, and make the decisions that are good for the whole group. regardless of his or her own considered opinions."

Kyodan says, "But seriously, it has to be a give and take thing."

Walcar says, "I completely disagreed with him until today."

Kyodan says, "We cant let personal feelings cloud judgement."

Kyodan says, "If we wanna hate someone, fine go ahead, I am sure they hate you too but it should NEVER interfere with union dealings."

Kyodan says, "Thats all."

Shannodoah says, "Well said sir."

Lyneya nods to Kyodan.

Lyneya asks, "Anyone else?"
>
Kyodan says, "Thank you. That will be my inspirational speech for the decade."

Schvartzgonif says, "But because of the history of this union, i feel that the leader should also be one who is well qualified in the name which gives the union its focus. That of the art of crafting and utilizing lockpicks."

Walcar says, "The focus is opening boxes."

Kyodan says, "But that means only thieves can be a leader."

Dogushan says, "Till the lore split."

Kyodan says, "It isnt the lockpick union its the locksmith union."

Walcar says, "Then only thieves should be allowed to join if that would be the case."

Enwah asks, "The Focus of the Union as stated earlier which everyone agreed with, was opening boxes AND managing the making and distribution of lockpicks. Or did someone disagree with that when Shan said it?"

Walcar says, "I worked extrememly hard for awhile to be able to offical join the Union."

Enwah says, "I remember everyone agreeing."

Walcar says, "When it was actually hard to learn."

Lyneya says, "Ok."

Lyneya just closed the sign-up list.

Lyneya says, "I have some questions."

Markhor says, "Having a Thief at the top might be nice, but should not be as important as having someone who can get the job done."

Markhor says, "One of the best Speakers the Tavern Troupe ever had was a Cleric. She couldn't sing a chorus, but she could lead."

Kaxis says, "Lockpick making might wind up in blacksmithing for all we know, making traders the best lockpick crafters."

Kyodan says, "Okay TECHNICALLY the wikopedia definition of locksmith is someone who makes and defeats locks but still."

Walcar says, "Lyneya please speak."

Markhor nods to Lyneya.

Lyneya says, "I have some questions."

Lyneya says, "I dont want answers, but I do want you all to think about it."

Lyneya asks, "What is a leader's responsibility?"

Lyneya asks, "Where should a leader be found?"

Lyneya asks, "How should a leader be qualified?"

Lyneya asks, "For the potential leaders.. What do you view the position entailing?"

Lyneya asks, "What are you going to bring to the group?"

Lyneya asks, "How are you going to help your fellow members excel?"

Lyneya says, "The Locksmith Union is not an Order, and wont be an Order. You will not have the same resources they do."

Lyneya says, "As the GM in charge of Player-groups, the support I will offer entails the following."

Lyneya says, "I will set up events on the calendar for you, I will help with the OCCASIONAL announcement, provided I can be here .. (I am an east coaster and not staying up til midnight to announce a box raffle, sorry)."

Kyodan says, "But if you go to bed early you will miss Letterman."

Lyneya says, "I will also provide the OCCASIONAL gift, for member meetings."

Lyneya says, "Other than that, you all are on your own for supporting yourselves."

Schvartzgonif says, "Some of us Work 3rd shift. we're night owls by nature."

Kyodan says, "Some of us get distracted to easy and dont pay attention and then its 4 am."

The fact that Walcar up and said he didn't want the job because it couldn't be an Order frankly upsets me. Even if he did take it back, he is wanting to lead the Union and is prone to those kind of rash reactions and decisions.

That is not a leader, that is someone who is made they did not get what they want.

Markhor does not want the job, so I agree with the several people who have nominated Shannodoah. He has been around a long time, knows the Union, and he is friendly to everyone, and is always being helpful. Plus he is a Thief, which in tradition the Union Leadership has always been. Tradition is as much a part of the Union as popping boxes, and I do not see how a Paladin could fill that role.

I cannot agree with you more Kraxis. The Union always did stand for a lot of things, and always provided a level of quality game experience to a lot of people. Whether it be just popping boxes, or the Roleplaying Locksmith that popped them for you.

A large number of my friends, past and present were made sitting somewhere and opening boxes, and IC conversations I overheard got my character involved in many plot twists and storylines. I think a lot of the older Union Members could say the same.

The Union does need to change. First off, I think we need to get our locksmiths back at the designated locations and making ourselves seen again. We need to tally up donations and start the Raffles again, plan teaching nights, and adventure out with other players and show them where to get boxes that will teach them at various skill levels.

We also need to make sure our City Reps have the proper keys, and in my opinion give them ability to approve new members so long as said member meets the qualifications of joining. We need to hold monthly meetings to plan events and get ideas, and set up a structured leadership so that in the case someone does have to leave, there is a protocol in place for someone to take their place - to avoid the current situation.

We need to encourage our members to Roleplay more, so one idea someone mentioned to me that I like, is having a standing pool of "in house" prizes that will be awarded to players we catch out and about Roleplaying and giving the Union a good name, same goes for the devout pickers that are constantly popping boxes for others. Looking into the future and the changes to mech, I will also agree that lockpick making will be hard to enforce as far as the prices go. So instead of enforcing a cap on prices, we should work toward selling lockpicks at a competitive price.

The Union has always had a great deal of potential, and it still does, we just have to work together - and as individuals to make it happen.

-Shannodoah

Another addon. LOL

Rummaging through the files on my old computer, I have managed to dig up the Locksmith Union member list from June of '03 - September of 07, along with a good deal of the source HTML files and Images used by Jilette for the old Union site. If anyone has a list that is more up to date please let me know.

The list I have does not have lockpick numbers attached to it however, but was more of a listing of Members, Locations, Lockpicking level on the scale of 1-10, and contact information.

"We should encourage people to put the boxes in duffel bags. That way, they can just drop them off for a locksmith and then come back later to pick up their coin and a gem pouch."

But alot of us are thieves. Those coins and gems might be light, or never turned back over hehe. Also I don't want to hold onto other peoples coin and gems or have to write down and remember if i just deposit it and such. A duffel bag of boxes takes like 15 min of straight popping anyway. Teach them a class or hand them some origami paper or something.

"But alot of us are thieves. Those coins and gems might be light, or never turned back over hehe. Also I don't want to hold onto other peoples coin and gems or have to write down and remember if i just deposit it and such. A duffel bag of boxes takes like 15 min of straight popping anyway. Teach them a class or hand them some origami paper or something."

If you're in the Union and can't be trusted to be honest with business, you shouldn't be in the Union.

I don't know if I agree, boxes seem to be left because it takes a lot of time to get the boxes picked, and offers nothing near the skill gain, or monetary gain from skinning.

I for one think that the Locksmith Union needs to have two separate goals.

Player (OOC) Goals:

Such as an improvement to the box system, to make it more fun, and more rewarding, or woe on the other guilds, and nerf skinning. Perhaps a compromise.

Another OOC goal could be to get the players of interested Locksmith Union characters to get involved in the discussion, here on the forum, or else where. I'd prefer here on the forum, but other things could get worked upon.

Not that this should be the only thing.

Then we should have Character (IG) Goals:

Right now we need to replace leadership, and possibly restructure the Locksmith Union.

For one, I like the concept of having ranks, outside of leadership position.

I think it was mentioned that Markhor should be Chief Locksmith... so to use that as an example Markhor would be:

Chief Locksmith Markhor, Locksmith Union Representative of Crossing.

The ranks would be a title thing, something like.

Apprentice Locksmith
Underclass Locksmith
Trained Locksmith
Advanced Locksmith
Savant Locksmith
Professional Locksmith
Master Locksmith
Grand-master Locksmith
Chief Locksmith

Those are just brainstorming ideas.


_____________________________________
Victory Over Lyras, on the 397th year and 156 days since the Victory of Lanival the Redeemer.

Well we already have something like the ranks you mentioned, except they are classified as skill levels. As far as a ranking system would go, since the Union is not, and will not be an order, I am not sure if we could actually get those implemented, but it certainly would not hurt to ask! If not on a mechanics level, that would be something we could do for sure on a RP level.

As for skill gain, Markhor I believe said he still learns from Geni boxes, not a lot, but they keep it moving, I am quite sure his skill spans far past that.

As for changing locations, I agree completely. Some of the hang out spots are still occupied, but a lot of them have moved, so I think sanctioning new Official picking areas would be a good idea also.

-Shan

Boxes are worth the time for anyone who doesn't like throwing away the coin.

Adan'f as an example. Kill one may drop around 8 silver in gems, coins or combination of them both. Their boxes however usually have upwards for 2 gold or a little more in them.

If you want to throw away extra money, go for it, don't worry about boxes, but personally I like squeezing everything I can out of hunting. That's like hunting something that has skins that sell well, and not bothering to skin it. Do people do it, yes, but does everyone? Certainly not.

And the gelapod is always happy to be fed, no matter what the substance.

Again, to the people who list "time" as a factor for people not wanting to get boxes opened for them...

It's really, really easy for people to put boxes into duffel bags and drop them off for a locksmith to open. I've been doing this for years with friends and lockpicking clients.

I think getting the word out to people, especially in higher level hunting areas, that they can simply collect their boxes and drop them off, then get paid later would encourage people to actually start collecting again. If a system like that were in place, then there is zero reason to leave those boxes on the ground. A full duffel bag of good boxes is at least a handful of plat. Even a bag full of DS boxes is good for 2 plat or so. What reason would people have for not doing it as long as we make ourselves available?

>>>reply Reply
Sorry if this is out of left field, but what happened to Jil?

Really miss chatting with her in IMs and helping her with web design stuff. Seemed like she just vanished one day.

Thanks.<<<

Jillette has had it rough in RL for the last bit, but she plans to return to Dragonrealms when it's possible for her to do. I get an e-mail now and then to one I might have sent a few months earlier, but at last notice she was well, just dealing with a lot of stuff.

As far as I know, she hasn't actually signed on AIM in ages.

Hope that helps!

Since I was asked to share -my- ideas, I figured I would consolidate some of them into one post. Please feel free to comment as to what like, or don't like. There are a lot of things I think I would be great, so here they are.

1) Union sponsored teaching nights. Sit around, pop some boxes, teach some skills, and show people the most effective ways of learning the skills. Someone people don;t even realize that along with lockpicking and disarming, you also learn a little perception and mechanical lore. Popping one box moves four skills. Thats pretty darn useful and adds up as ranks over time.

2) Union sponsored Newbie nights where youngsters get paired up with a Union member who will teach them and mentor, take them hunting, maybe pass along a few items their way. New people still join this game, as surprising as that may be, and older folks still roll new toons in new guilds, it's always nice to know there are people around willing to help you out, and these would give folks a place to find a bunch in one spot. I think Drue would be awesome at heading this up, cause she already does it!

3) Start doing museum runs, and prison runs again. They were always a lot of fun, and believe it or not there are people who don't know how the mechanics work, or if they even exist. This could be expanded to taking people out to visit areas where unique mechanics exists, or interesting things in the game. Did you know there is a cow in Arthe Dale that winks and kisses you? You'd be surprised how many times i've seen people who have played the game for years that don't know about somethings that exist.

4) I have a Trader who is willing to sell their wares via, shop, stable or stall depending on whats available and when, the proceeds of which will all be donated to the Union to sponsor events, raffles, etc.

5) I think as someone mentioned we should get the raffles going again, not right away, but save up donations, get the event area, and then go to town! But not only raffles, I think we should have a standing pool of prizes, funds, whatever, to hand out to Union Members who are performing their duties. This can range from spending a lot of time popping boxes and teaching at one of our gathering spots, helping youngins, or Role-Playing with people. The specifics would have to be talked about, but incentives are always good.

6) I believe a clear chain of command should be established, so in the event whomever is leading the Union vanishes, they are abducted by Aliens, something more tragic gods forbid, or they just stop playing, that it be clear who would then be passed the leadership reigns. Along with this, I believe the City Reps should be properly keyed and maintained. I.E: There isn't a rep in DeathMonkeyVille who hasn't logged on in a month, but their still a rep, or the active Rep on Banannaland Land has an approved new member, but doesn't have the right to induct them.

7) I think the development of the Union, and moving it toward a stable future will involve a lot of member involvement. This would mean at the least a Monthly Meeting where people can share ideas, concerns or complaints in a supportive way with their fellow members.

8) I think it would be awesome to get some Union Roleplay going to interact with other groups, and organizations as a representative of the Union. This covers a wide variety of things from scoring a contract to rekey the keep in Theren, or consultant services for the Moon Mage Guild who need a special key made to wind up some astrolobe-gizmo thing.

I think there is so much potential out there for people who want to make an effort. That's the biggest thing right there. You could have the best most awesome leader in the world, who implements the most wonderful ideas ever, and everything is coated in platinum leaf. But if the members themselves do not go out, take a deep gulp of air, and go out there and take the time to make it happen, it wont.

The Union has always been about helping others. Whether it's popping boxes, helping people learn, throw kick-arse parties, being a mentor to other people, or what have you. People have to want to do these things, and I think people do, they have for a long time, its a matter of personal satisfaction, prestige and pride.

That would be awesome Schvartzgonif! I am sure there are a few Moon Mages who could help too if you were unable to make a night, boats and moon gates are wonderful.

I agree with you said about Leadership, there should always be a backup of someone qualified to run the Union if a leader goes poof for whatever reason. I also agree with the idea of delegating some of the responsibility to a few other people. Such as Event planning as you mentioned, an accountant to keep track of guild funds, etc. This would prevent one person from being burdened with doing everything.

I also agree that is a very heavy historic element to the Union and its connection to the Thieves guild. It was started and ran by thieves, but allowed anyone of proper skill to fall into it's ranks, with special admittance considerations given to Thieves. This has always been something both IC and OOC about the Union.

For those who were wondering, I know a few folks asked at the meeting.

The Union was Founded: November 16th, 2001

The original requirements for joining the Union, and the rules for members are listed below. NOTE: These are not the current requirements. Current requirements are a skill of 75 lockpicking and disarming, the "guilded" option remains the same.

To be eligible to join the Locksmith Union you must meet just one of the following requirements:

* Be a "guilded" locksmith of at least 10th circle

OR
* Be "adept" in both Lockpicking and Disarming (at least 150 ranks).


Our Rules:

These rules are designed to benefit all locksmiths and our customers. Please follow them closely.

1. Leave the crowds when disarming area traps.

2. Do not steal from customers at the designated Union locations.

3. Always accept tips when offered! Don't spoil the tipping process for others by not accepting a tips.

4. Never sell a master's iron lockpick for less than 4 gold Kronars (3.2g Lirum/2.9g Dokora) or a grandmaster's lockpick for less than 1 platinum Kronar (8g Lirum/7.2g Dokora) - these are absolute minimum prices. Feel free to sell higher, particularly if you make higher quality picks. We feel these prices are fair to the locksmith community and the customers. Selling for less only costs you and all other lockpick makers in the long run.

5. Always bring customers to the Union locations to open their boxes whenever possible.

It would not be hard to convert the current ranking system the Union has based on skill level into a RP set of titles, and have them listed with the members on the new website, along with any special positions. All the into could also be easily converted into a script, so if you notice you are Roleplaying with another Union member, you execute the script file, Type in the persons name, and it bring up their title.

Example:

.uniontitle
>
Who's title do you want to know?
>
Markhor
>
Grand Master Locksmith Markhor
>


Someone would have to keep it up to date, but it is easily doable.


As for healers at the picking location, the Union has always tried to have Unionized Empaths that would heal at our picking locations. That is certainly something which would be wonderful to get started again. But reaching out to the PHA is also a great idea, they may have some members that will devote their services for some good classes, and some healing. But I am not sure how cost effective it would be pay the Empath per heal, unless the Locksmith that is on duty wants to cover the cots out of pocket. Generally however, if there is an Empath available, people will tip them on their own.

We do need to have more meetings, but I do not think anyone is entirely sure yet on how the GM in charge is going to be appointing the new leader, or when. I'm thinking to really get anything moving we are going to need to have that person in place, so if something is decided on it can be approved by the leader and made official. So my opinion is we should sit back and wait on some word from her as far as that goes, it's only been a couple days, and she is likely a very busy woman :D

Like you, I would love it if more people were on here sharing their thoughts and ideas, I'm starting to feel like a windbag lol.

Good news Union Members!

We will soon have a savvy new website for the Union thanks to the efforts of Kartaan. He will be donating the domain name, and the hosting for the site.

I've also sent a e-mail to our wonderful Order GM requesting an updated member-list if she can scrounge one up somewhere, the most up-to-date one I have is from 2007.

I believe I have current and up-to-date Box levels to throw up on there as well.

Right now, some of the things other than member listings, box information, event calendar and application/member forms include Members Only Area with Forums, a scripting section (Maybe we can finally give people an alternative to half broken box scripts). Personally I am really excited that this is happening, as it is a good step in the right direction to getting the Union back up on its feet.

It would be really great if Union members shared their ideas as to how they would like the site to look/be organized, or things they would like to see included, or any other Feedback you'd like to share.

i think in the "box" information section there should be a list of all possible box traps, their "solution" <i.e. what to do if hit by that trap>, & the different types of harvested parts. Dismantle options for various guilds & races.

As well as a section on all types of lockpicks, skill needed <at present> to carve them, and once the split happens, whatever the craft of lockpick-making will entail at that time for that particular kind of pick <when different types of lockpicks come out too>.

That way it will be an informative site for both those looking for a "union" picker - and those within the union to have a handy site for looking up information if needed.

---

You've seen life through distorted eyes;You know you had to learn;The execution of your mind;You really had to turn;,the book is read,The end begins to show,The truth is out, the lies are old, But you don't want to know - Black Sabbath