Not a WM but Thieves fall into the same category that you are talking about (Bows in SoI, Armor tert). IMO the penalty overshadows the buff. Any time that I have tried to use my bow in at-level PvP, which means removing my shield will be very bad, I have been very unimpressed. I even have the advantage of Snipe, but it's not enough to make bows usable in PvP for me. I've just resigned myself to using only melee in PvP since I'm not interested in spending over a year to catch Crossbow up to my Bow.

If you are just interested in PvE then it's not that bad. I can kill just fine with it, but I kill at the same rate as when I use a stonebow (with quartz shard) with 200 less ranks. In invasions hurling a bonded throwing axe kills faster than using a battle longbow with high-end arrows, and LT is 150 ranks lower than my Bow skill. Bows are just a bad choice IMO for any guild that's not Ranger/Barbarian. Thier lack of penalty is very noticeable when using the same weapon/ammo/buff setup, then add on dual-load and it's huge gap between them and every other guild.

That's a good question. I've always wondered how big the shield penalty is and how much if any you can work off with hindrance.

My WM is only a baby (~300 magic skills) but I never bothered switching to bows after 3.x because I like having offhand throw as an option while aiming and because I hate seeing game messages telling me I'm not being as effective as I could be. I even hated seeing the "awkward but usable" message on my thief even though he was stronger in medium edged weapons back in the day.

Kinda curious why bow is in SOI instead of XB. I too have always associated bows more with rangers and barbs.

Let's hear it for stonebows, or heavy thrown.

I'm sure I brought this SOI thing up recently. Very recently.

I train everything. All the weapons, all the time. I'm backtraining when I ought to wait to do that for 150th. So, I have some good experience with nearly all my ranged weapons being close in skill ranks for some time, and behind my melee because I was a sillyhead and didn't train any missile for a long, long time with my warmage.

I don't believe it overcomes the shield penalty, no, after months of dealing with it. And I also think that we ought not to be focusing in it as a guild because we have that shield penalty. Our SOI ranged weapon(s) should not be coupled with a shield penalty like this. Or, TAILWIND, or hey, YS, could offset the shield penalty / make the shield so light and easy to manuever that it no longer affects us.

Honestly, the best thing would be to swap it out for LT/HT being in our SOI (or both). It makes sense for a warrior mage, who can only summon weapons of their highest MELEE skill, to be better with weapons that are melee in nature but can be thrown, such as bolas, spears, etc. That's my logic anyway. This might be addressed sometime.... soon.... :)
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- I hate the word paywall and everything that goes with it. -

Xionara Swiftstrike

So just to make sure I am on the same page...

You want a larger buff to a weapon you can already easily hit with, and you want a smaller buff to a weapon that you need a buff in order to use effectively.

<<So why is it the warrior mage guild has an affinity for them?

SoI != affinity for something. You do not have an affinity for bows. You have bows in your buffing sphere of influence.

>>According to that, warrior mages do have an affinity for bows.

I think SoI uses a very loose/charitable definition of affinity, since it's an amalgamation of making sure that guilds get SoIs that generally fall where buffs are, fulfill certain guild "stereotypes," and just fill the gaps in a way that make each guild diverse.

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Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.

Eagerly awaiting the Transcendental Necromancy Performance buff after this thread. /guitar riff

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Thayet
@thayelf // http://thayette.tumblr.com

"But you must know that if corruption is powerful enough, it's not corruption at all — it's law. Unspoken, unwritten, but law." — Robert Jackson Bennett, City of Stairs

>SoI could be described as "an affinity for the skill," but that doesn't automatically entitle you to anything.

I had to read that 3 times before SoI stopped being 'So I'.

I was like 'why is Armifer saying he could be described as an affinity?'

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I'm a badger, I be badgerin'

Actually a very good game.

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Thayet
@thayelf // http://thayette.tumblr.com

"But you must know that if corruption is powerful enough, it's not corruption at all — it's law. Unspoken, unwritten, but law." — Robert Jackson Bennett, City of Stairs

To help offset the shield penalty of bows for those that do wish to use them would be my guess.

I get that the warrior mage guild is the big damage numbers guild of DR and naturally attracts players who want to min/max the damage potential of every ability, but not everything needs to be aligned to support that.

Also, if it were to change then bow users would have it even worse just so <insert other ranged weapon> users can eke out a little bit of extra damage.

>>Isn't that the primary reason to choose this guild? I don't want this to be GvG because I think each guild has a strong spell identity in the realm of blowing things up, but warrior mages seemingly exist for the sole purpose of maximizing damage. That's their niche.

A 5% difference in how much you can buff Bows and other ranged weapons hardly negates this. WMs are kings of TM with a good dose of weapons thrown in. I think they achieve that.


>>I'd propose that WMs just get all ranged weapons as part of their SOI (xbow,LT,HT,Sling,Bow).

What 4 melee weapons are they willing to give up for that? All weapon secondaries have 11 weapon skills in SoI, so there has to be a trade-off.


>>The difference is negligible

If it's negligible then why does it even need to be changed? WMs can already buff more weapon skills than any other weapons secondary guild and buff more tert defensive skills than any other guild. I think they are in a pretty good place. The real problem is the shield penalty to bows, not SoI, but I don't see either being changed anytime in the near future.

>>Why does this need to be a thing? Why can't weapon secondaries get all weapons within SOI?

Because they're weapon secondary, not weapon primary.

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Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.

>>Large blunt/two-handed blunt maybe. Large edge/large blunt? It doesn't really matter since we can't natively buff those anyway.

For some reason E-pedia doesn't have it on there, but MoF buffs whatever melee weapon is being held in your right hand. So, yes WMs can buff all of those natively.


> WMs can already buff more weapon skills than any other weapons secondary guild and buff more tert defensive skills than any other guild.

>That's not even remotely true. Without touching the scroll system or defensive debuffs, in order of priority.

You need to buff up on your buffs.

>* Rangers: +all weapons (CoC, STW).

StW does not buff Heavy Thrown.

>* Thief: +Brawling (Elusion), +swing timer (haste), +bows (steady), +all melee weapons (strike), and +thrown (spar).

Steady does not buff Slings

>* Paladins: +all melee weapons (RW).

They can not buff a single ranged weapon skill. That's 5 weapon skills.

>* Warrior Mages: +ranged weapons (Tailwind), Brawling (MoF), Ignite (+fire damage), MoA (+damage).

As I already stated above, MoF buffs all melee weapon skills + Brawling, and Tailwind buffs all ranged weapon skills. That's every single weapon skill. The only other guild that can do that is Barbs and they are weapon primary. Then add in Substratum (+TM)

>* Bards (non-skill buffing): +2 stats on any weapon in or out of SOI (Resonance), +accuracy on all weapons (rage).

They can't buff a single weapon skill, and the buffs they have are lackluster in comparison to weapon skill buffs. I've done some side-by-side comparisons with Bards and other weapon secondary guilds.

>* Cleric (Non-skill buffing): Bless, DR (+ damage).

Can't buff any weapon skills.


>>As you go down the line, you'll see defensive debuffs rising

Rangers and Thieves can only buff the Evasion skill and Reflex.

Paladins can buff all the defensive skills with a scroll-only meta spell for Evasion (tert).

WMs can buff all the defensive skills except Defending natively (Shield, Armors, and Evasion are all tert) + Reflex.

Bards can buff Evasion, Parry, and Reflex (only one tert skill).

Clerics can buff Shield, Evasion, and Defending (all terts).

In shear number of buffable combat skills WMs win out easily.


>>To stop threads like this?

Ignoring game balance just to stop players asking for more isn't really good design policy.

Alright, so my WM is too small to cast the spell, but I finally found a post on our intuitive, and easy to navigate, forums (hate them so much right now).

http://forums.play.net/forums/DragonRealms/The%20Warrior%20Mages/KABOOM!%20Share%20Your%20Crits/view

The only non-WM/Analogous spell he has on him is Gift of Life which is just a +Stamina buff.

Just messing around this morning.
You reach out with your senses and see brilliant (17/21) streams of roiling Elemental mana coursing through the area.
Letting your senses extend further, you feel there is fulgent (16/21) mana to the west, and shining (13/21) mana to the north.
You sense the Gift of Life spell upon you, which will last for about nineteen roisaen.
You sense the Substratum spell upon you, which will last for about thirty-three roisaen.
You sense the Ethereal Shield spell upon you, which will last for about thirty-three roisaen.
You sense the Y'ntrel Sechra spell upon you, which will last for about twenty-six roisaen.
You sense the Gauge Flow spell upon you, which will last for about seventy-three roisaen.
You sense the Ignite spell upon you, which will last for about fourteen roisaen.
You sense the Tailwind spell upon you, which will last for about fifteen roisaen.
You sense the Air Bubble spell upon you, which will last for about twenty-nine roisaen.
You sense the Lay Ward spell upon you, which will last for about six roisaen.
You sense the Swirling Winds spell upon you, which will last for about thirty roisaen.
You sense the heat of the Dragon's Breath spell upon you, which should last around three roisaen or until you use it up as flaming spittle.
>You sense the Mantle of Flame spell upon you, which will last for about sixty roisaen.
You sense the presence of the Blufmor Garaen spell surrounding your forearms, which should last around one roisaen or until the winds have been spent.
You sense the Sure Footing spell upon you, which will last for about twenty-eight roisaen.
You sense the Aether Cloak spell upon you, which will last until you fail to provide 25 mana for it.
You sense the Zephyr spell in the area, which will last for about eight roisaen.
You sense an Ethereal Fissure spell matrix infusing the available mana streams with a staggering amount of extra elemental energy.
The Ethereal Fissure should last for approximately twenty-nine roisaen.
You sense the fog here is the magical result of the Rising Mists spell, which should last for twenty-eight roisaen.
You feel something about this area will repel familiars.
Roundtime: 3 sec.
R> exp mods
The following skills are currently under the influence of a modifier:

+ Light Armor
+ Chain Armor
+ Plate Armor
+ Parry Ability
>+ Twohanded Blunt
+ Slings
+ Bow
+ Crossbow
+ Light Thrown
+ Heavy Thrown
+ Brawling
+ Targeted Magic
+ Evasion
+ Stealth


That's the best I can do, unless a higher WM wants to post some more info, and hopefully update E-pedia. I would do it myself, but I don't like to update things that I can't personally do in game.

Yeah, the description on Elanthipedia hasn't been updated.

MOF is:
+Brawling damage (adds fire damage)
-Stealth
+Every melee weapon skill
Makes you a light source.

Duration is right but the agility bonus for a Warmage is +15% at cap (outside the WM SOI), not 12 points.



Mazrian

>>Paladins lost that in the 3.1 stuff. Shield, Defending, Reflex now.

That sucks :(

For one of the most combat oriented guilds, and the large number of Augmentation spells they have, Paladins are lacking in flexibility.

>>Does the spell literally buff every melee skill, or just the held ones? And does it have to pulse out, or is it instant?

I'm pretty sure all melee buffs work the same now. It's the weapon held in the right hand that is buffed, and I think they all pulse but the pulse is pretty quick. His point was more that there is no weapon that it won't buff while being held.

I've never seen it take longer than about a second, although I haven't rigorously tested that.

This thread sort of got off track. I hope that the GMs will be willing to take a look at bow being the ranged SOI weapon for warrior mages at some point. I would think that most warrior mages would agree with me that we would be better served by having bow changed to something else.

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- I hate the word paywall and everything that goes with it. -
- Please keep the discussion on topic. Posts here should pertain to suggestions for Warrior Mages only please. MOD-Aneka

Xionara Swiftstrike

> It looks like most things in the SoI table were distributed in a balanced way so you don't have a ton of people with XB in their SoI and few with bow.

It might make sense to swap it with traders, since they're armor secondary and should have shield perks.