out of the four people I've asked in game, "How, or whats the most effective way to train TM", three responded with "duh you cast TM spells at monsters". The fourth told me to post on the forums, So here I am. I've tried quite a few different things, but I can't seem to get it to move. I'm currently 20th circle, and it seems like the only time I can get TM to move passed muddled is when im on a wall rank, or I'm listening to someone teach.
The most recent things I've tried are, AEL at 4 mana snap casting at the back, or fireball at min prep, full target at the back/head. Neither tactic has been able to move TM very well. My TM is starting to lag pretty far behind my other combat skills, and starting to worry me heh. Any info/help would be appreciated.
TEHSPIFF
DANFORDS2
Re: Looking for some training ideas...
07/05/2009 12:30 AM CDT
It'll depend quite a bit on your spells.
>AEL at 4 mana snap casting at the back, or fireball at min prep, full target at the back/head.
If you're snapcasting, you probably want to go min prep just to conserve mana. If you're fully targetting, you'll want to put as much mana as you can recover during a full target. Currently, multi-shot spells train very well. Gar zeng and chain lightning being the prime examples.
>I can get TM to move passed muddled
After the upcoming experience changes, it won't matter. I'd just keep doing what you're doing.
Elemancer Opieus, Warrior Mage of Elanthia
I blame Bubba:
http://the-emu.mybrute.com
>AEL at 4 mana snap casting at the back, or fireball at min prep, full target at the back/head.
If you're snapcasting, you probably want to go min prep just to conserve mana. If you're fully targetting, you'll want to put as much mana as you can recover during a full target. Currently, multi-shot spells train very well. Gar zeng and chain lightning being the prime examples.
>I can get TM to move passed muddled
After the upcoming experience changes, it won't matter. I'd just keep doing what you're doing.
Elemancer Opieus, Warrior Mage of Elanthia
I blame Bubba:
http://the-emu.mybrute.com
TEHSPIFF
Re: Looking for some training ideas...
07/05/2009 12:34 AM CDT
Meh, I usually try to find a good room, and 4-5 mana snapcasts is about what i can continually spit out without draining my mana completely.
but any more then that it seems, even with full targets then my mana starts dwindling pretty quick. Seems that way anyway.
When do the new experience changes come in? also, are GZ and CL the only multi-shot spells? I haven't seen much luck with GZ either...I'll give it another try though.
Thanks for the info
but any more then that it seems, even with full targets then my mana starts dwindling pretty quick. Seems that way anyway.
When do the new experience changes come in? also, are GZ and CL the only multi-shot spells? I haven't seen much luck with GZ either...I'll give it another try though.
Thanks for the info
DANFORDS2
Re: Looking for some training ideas...
07/05/2009 12:39 AM CDT
>When do the new experience changes come in?
I wish I knew. Hopefully soon, I'm really excited for them personally.
>I haven't seen much luck with GZ either
I set a macro with prep/target/cast of GZ, then just did it until I was out of mana or creatures. I also incorporated TM into my normal combat routine. For a slicer it goes: prep, target, parry, cast, feint, prep, target, draw, cast, sweep, prep, target, slice, cast, chop. Min prep is fine, or one or two more if you're fighting undead.
Elemancer Opieus, Warrior Mage of Elanthia
I blame Bubba:
http://the-emu.mybrute.com
I wish I knew. Hopefully soon, I'm really excited for them personally.
>I haven't seen much luck with GZ either
I set a macro with prep/target/cast of GZ, then just did it until I was out of mana or creatures. I also incorporated TM into my normal combat routine. For a slicer it goes: prep, target, parry, cast, feint, prep, target, draw, cast, sweep, prep, target, slice, cast, chop. Min prep is fine, or one or two more if you're fighting undead.
Elemancer Opieus, Warrior Mage of Elanthia
I blame Bubba:
http://the-emu.mybrute.com
JMF90
Re: Looking for some training ideas...
07/05/2009 12:48 AM CDT
>After the upcoming experience changes, it won't matter.
That's not really accurate at all.
A couple points. Don't snap cast if you're running out of mana. The benefit to snap casting is time. Time isn't important unless it's the limiting factor. It sounds like mana is your limiting factor.
If you do want to snap cast, do it with BOLT. With AEL, try taking the time to target it. Don't aim at a specific body part, you'll get weaker hits and learn less.
You might be close to capping the creature you're hunting. You should post more information: rank, creature you're fighting, what other spells you have available, etc. Generally speaking, you should always be able to lock TM, although it may take some effort as a magic prime.
That's not really accurate at all.
A couple points. Don't snap cast if you're running out of mana. The benefit to snap casting is time. Time isn't important unless it's the limiting factor. It sounds like mana is your limiting factor.
If you do want to snap cast, do it with BOLT. With AEL, try taking the time to target it. Don't aim at a specific body part, you'll get weaker hits and learn less.
You might be close to capping the creature you're hunting. You should post more information: rank, creature you're fighting, what other spells you have available, etc. Generally speaking, you should always be able to lock TM, although it may take some effort as a magic prime.
TEHSPIFF
Re: Looking for some training ideas...
07/05/2009 01:03 AM CDT
Currently I snap cast mostly because I'm trying to mind lock, I've been under the impression that the longer you spend "aiming" the less exp you'll gain for the hit.
I dunno that I'm capped on what im hunting, i've tried rockies, snow beasts and gargs...
my stuff currently is....
Primary Magic: 136 94% perplexed Harness Ability: 137 43% bewildered
Power Perceive: 140 46% pondering Magical Devices: 105 43% thoughtful
Targeted Magic: 80 95% thoughtful Shield Usage: 128 27% bewildered Heavy Chain: 133 50% bewildered
Parry Ability: 119 53% thoughtful Multi Opponent: 134 38% mind lock
Medium Edged: 114 10% thoughtful
Evasion: 120 18% mind lock Climbing: 31 96% learning
Skinning: 45 18% learning Swimming: 32 69% learning
Appraisal: 55 58% thoughtful
I kinda gave up on training TM when I moved to gargs, been more "warrior" then "mage" lately heh.
Strength : 14 Reflex : 22
Agility : 22 Charisma : 10
Discipline : 18 Wisdom : 21
Intelligence : 25 Stamina : 17
I dunno that I'm capped on what im hunting, i've tried rockies, snow beasts and gargs...
my stuff currently is....
Primary Magic: 136 94% perplexed Harness Ability: 137 43% bewildered
Power Perceive: 140 46% pondering Magical Devices: 105 43% thoughtful
Targeted Magic: 80 95% thoughtful Shield Usage: 128 27% bewildered Heavy Chain: 133 50% bewildered
Parry Ability: 119 53% thoughtful Multi Opponent: 134 38% mind lock
Medium Edged: 114 10% thoughtful
Evasion: 120 18% mind lock Climbing: 31 96% learning
Skinning: 45 18% learning Swimming: 32 69% learning
Appraisal: 55 58% thoughtful
I kinda gave up on training TM when I moved to gargs, been more "warrior" then "mage" lately heh.
Strength : 14 Reflex : 22
Agility : 22 Charisma : 10
Discipline : 18 Wisdom : 21
Intelligence : 25 Stamina : 17
JMF90
Re: Looking for some training ideas...
07/05/2009 01:09 AM CDT
>Currently I snap cast mostly because I'm trying to mind lock, I've been under the impression that the longer you spend "aiming" the less exp you'll gain for the hit.
There is no exp penalty to aiming or targeting. Do it. Gargoyles should teach you for awhile, but they have significant natural armor which protects them. This is significant because your experience is based off of the damage you do. Sand sprites would probably teach you better, but it would be a bit of a hike to Ratha.
Try the previous suggestion of targeting while you attack as well, that's a good trick.
There is no exp penalty to aiming or targeting. Do it. Gargoyles should teach you for awhile, but they have significant natural armor which protects them. This is significant because your experience is based off of the damage you do. Sand sprites would probably teach you better, but it would be a bit of a hike to Ratha.
Try the previous suggestion of targeting while you attack as well, that's a good trick.
JMF90
Re: Looking for some training ideas...
07/05/2009 01:10 AM CDT
Actually, after looking at the rest of your skills, I'd give vines and creepers up by Theren a try.
TEHSPIFF
Re: Looking for some training ideas...
07/05/2009 01:11 AM CDT
Yeah I'm currently doing that, upping the mana seems to be helping...and full targets without targeting a body part seems to be helping as well.
up to muddled. Heh.
Thanks for the help btw, really appreciate it.
up to muddled. Heh.
Thanks for the help btw, really appreciate it.
TEHSPIFF
Re: Looking for some training ideas...
07/05/2009 01:14 AM CDT
Dont they get marauders randomly as well though? I might go there after/if I can catch TM up to everything else though.
Gargs are kind of mean, and take entirely too long for my lil gnome self to kill.
Gargs are kind of mean, and take entirely too long for my lil gnome self to kill.
JMF90
Re: Looking for some training ideas...
07/05/2009 01:22 AM CDT
>Dont they get marauders randomly as well though?
Sometimes, yes. If you have 4 enemies at melee already, they won't advance on you. Alternately, you can try to flee.
Sometimes, yes. If you have 4 enemies at melee already, they won't advance on you. Alternately, you can try to flee.
GREGORYN4
Re: Looking for some training ideas...
07/05/2009 07:02 AM CDT
1. Get a better spell. AEL is really only meant to be used for circles 1-10ish. SSTR isn't a great spell, but it will hold you over until you can get ALA at 25th. Then I would forget it because it's kind of lame.
2. Harness rather than prep higher. Maybe you're already doing this, but you get to spend more time regenerating mana this way.
3. Full prep. Unless you're using a spell like GZ or CL.
4. Use pathways. You can't use it with every prep like you used to but they are still helpful.
Critters: You might do blood wolves. The mana there sucks so you'll have to harness less. You might do silver leucros. Even sand sprites may teach you some TM, though they won't teach weapons or defenses.
2. Harness rather than prep higher. Maybe you're already doing this, but you get to spend more time regenerating mana this way.
3. Full prep. Unless you're using a spell like GZ or CL.
4. Use pathways. You can't use it with every prep like you used to but they are still helpful.
Critters: You might do blood wolves. The mana there sucks so you'll have to harness less. You might do silver leucros. Even sand sprites may teach you some TM, though they won't teach weapons or defenses.
WEILM
Re: Looking for some training ideas...
07/05/2009 07:16 AM CDT
Sand sprites hard cap TM at 100 ranks.
Your defenses should be more than good enough for silver leucros. Depending on what, if any, buffs you use. My defenses are a bit lower, and I only tend to use SuF, but I can handle 2 leucs without much f a problem. They do soft cap TM around 120 ranks or so, though. I am still learning in there a bit slowly at higher ranks.
From leucs, you can probably already handle swains, and they teach TM for a while past 135, but they need better defenses than I have for more than 1-on-1.
~Kyn (Kynevon)
DR-SOCHARIS
Attempting to update appraisal is like sticking my head face-first into a bucket of angry weasels.
Your defenses should be more than good enough for silver leucros. Depending on what, if any, buffs you use. My defenses are a bit lower, and I only tend to use SuF, but I can handle 2 leucs without much f a problem. They do soft cap TM around 120 ranks or so, though. I am still learning in there a bit slowly at higher ranks.
From leucs, you can probably already handle swains, and they teach TM for a while past 135, but they need better defenses than I have for more than 1-on-1.
~Kyn (Kynevon)
DR-SOCHARIS
Attempting to update appraisal is like sticking my head face-first into a bucket of angry weasels.
DEARMANK
Re: Looking for some training ideas...
07/05/2009 07:39 AM CDT
>>1. Get a better spell. AEL is really only meant to be used for circles 1-10ish. SSTR isn't a great spell, but it will hold you over until you can get ALA at 25th. Then I would forget it because it's kind of lame.
False, I used AEL until I got ALA and it worked just fine.
To the OP, I'm not sure where you got the idea that full prep provides an experience penalty. Experience is granted from damage done, the more damage the more experience. Full target will cause more damage, thus more experience. I've never been a fan of the rapid fire learning, it can be done but not at low levels, your mana runs out too quickly. I'd suggest putting more mana in and fully target.
Cute verbs and speaking from hiding are excellent ways to catch a lightning bolt in the face regardless of mystical ninja abilities.
-Armifer
False, I used AEL until I got ALA and it worked just fine.
To the OP, I'm not sure where you got the idea that full prep provides an experience penalty. Experience is granted from damage done, the more damage the more experience. Full target will cause more damage, thus more experience. I've never been a fan of the rapid fire learning, it can be done but not at low levels, your mana runs out too quickly. I'd suggest putting more mana in and fully target.
Cute verbs and speaking from hiding are excellent ways to catch a lightning bolt in the face regardless of mystical ninja abilities.
-Armifer
GREGORYN4
Re: Looking for some training ideas...
07/05/2009 11:57 AM CDT
>>False, I used AEL until I got ALA and it worked just fine.
I used AEL for a while too, but when I switched to SSTR I learned much better.
I used AEL for a while too, but when I switched to SSTR I learned much better.
KEZEV
Re: Looking for some training ideas...
07/05/2009 06:56 PM CDT
My suggestions would be to try Ratha. First sprites should move you up abit, then you can hit up Silver leucro, then swain. Vines in Theren are great also, but mana really sucks there for us.
As far as a spell, I'd either try a min prepped GZ, targeted, wait a second or two, cast.. Another thing I used to do before I went on to CL was to get four or more critters at melee, have an ES up, and be in shield stance, and use Fireball with. With it's concussion effect it teaches fairly well, actually. Think I used that mostly up until I got CL.
Why so serious?
As far as a spell, I'd either try a min prepped GZ, targeted, wait a second or two, cast.. Another thing I used to do before I went on to CL was to get four or more critters at melee, have an ES up, and be in shield stance, and use Fireball with. With it's concussion effect it teaches fairly well, actually. Think I used that mostly up until I got CL.
Why so serious?
TEHSPIFF
Re: Looking for some training ideas...
07/06/2009 06:44 PM CDT
Doin just fine training TM now, I think my problem was that I was targeting body parts when I was doing full targets. I've tried it with and without, and using AEL at 9-11 mana not targeting body parts teaches WAY better.
Managed to train 16 ranks of TM since my first post :-D
Thanks again for the info.
P.S. Whats SSRT? also, how well does lightning bolt teach TM? Or should I go with aether lash when I hit 25?
Managed to train 16 ranks of TM since my first post :-D
Thanks again for the info.
P.S. Whats SSRT? also, how well does lightning bolt teach TM? Or should I go with aether lash when I hit 25?
DANFORDS2
Re: Looking for some training ideas...
07/06/2009 07:23 PM CDT
>Whats SSRT? also, how well does lightning bolt teach TM? Or should I go with aether lash when I hit 25?
SSTR is Stone Strike, a second tier Earth spell that shoots multiple rock shards at a target. I don't have LB, so I can't comment, but I love ALA.
Elemancer Opieus, Warrior Mage of Elanthia
I blame Bubba:
http://the-emu.mybrute.com
SSTR is Stone Strike, a second tier Earth spell that shoots multiple rock shards at a target. I don't have LB, so I can't comment, but I love ALA.
Elemancer Opieus, Warrior Mage of Elanthia
I blame Bubba:
http://the-emu.mybrute.com
ROBERTDH
Re: Looking for some training ideas...
07/06/2009 07:24 PM CDT
>P.S. Whats SSRT? also, how well does lightning bolt teach TM? Or should I go with aether lash when I hit 25?
Stone Strike (SSTR), the second-tier Earth targeted spell.
Lightning Bolt is a special animal because it's new DFA, meaning it ignores shield but it is easier to evade. ALA is the most accurate TM spell there is, and since accuracy = damage = experience under the current model, it's hard to compare to except with multishot spells (which you can cast quickly because they don't improve accuracy when targeted).
But I'm just parroting other people here and don't actually pay attention to this stuff... someone is probably writing a much more informative post right now. Hrm...
"...I am inclined to think the focus of the [Warmage's] spellbook should be ways to make things explode, to help you make things explode, or to assist your victim in exploding." -Armifer
Stone Strike (SSTR), the second-tier Earth targeted spell.
Lightning Bolt is a special animal because it's new DFA, meaning it ignores shield but it is easier to evade. ALA is the most accurate TM spell there is, and since accuracy = damage = experience under the current model, it's hard to compare to except with multishot spells (which you can cast quickly because they don't improve accuracy when targeted).
But I'm just parroting other people here and don't actually pay attention to this stuff... someone is probably writing a much more informative post right now. Hrm...
"...I am inclined to think the focus of the [Warmage's] spellbook should be ways to make things explode, to help you make things explode, or to assist your victim in exploding." -Armifer
TEHSPIFF
Re: Looking for some training ideas...
07/06/2009 10:34 PM CDT
So, would you think ALA or SSRT for training TM then? I'm getting pretty close to 25. I'll have two spell slots when I go circle, so I could get either...I think.
I don't have any earth spells yet, except SF.
I guess, ALA monster damage vs. multishot SSRT, or is it more of a personal preference kind of question?
I don't have any earth spells yet, except SF.
I guess, ALA monster damage vs. multishot SSRT, or is it more of a personal preference kind of question?
GREGORYN4
Re: Looking for some training ideas...
07/06/2009 11:38 PM CDT
ALA hands down. SSTR is really only a hold-over until you can get ALA if you think you're not learning TM well enough. I don't believe it is a multi-strike spell, though it does lodge multiple fragments in the target. It also has pretty lame messaging--just copy/paste of normal combat damage.
KEZEV
Re: Looking for some training ideas...
07/07/2009 05:32 AM CDT
My personal preference is... all of the above. ALA, SSTR, and LB each have their own niche. ALA strait up damage dealing/killing in a pinch. LB a bit more flair, DFA and nerve damage. SSTR, I just happen to love that spell. The nicest thing about SSTR is that it always hits vital spots torso/head.
As far as learning wise.. you should be fine with whatever spells you have already for just strait up learning, be that AEL, GZ, or FB.
Why so serious?
As far as learning wise.. you should be fine with whatever spells you have already for just strait up learning, be that AEL, GZ, or FB.
Why so serious?
DEARMANK
Re: Looking for some training ideas...
07/07/2009 08:20 AM CDT
Bobbybooshay (150th WM in TF) swears by SSTR. I never used it for TM training though and didn't even get it till I was in my 90s. ALA works wonders though that I know for sure.
Cute verbs and speaking from hiding are excellent ways to catch a lightning bolt in the face regardless of mystical ninja abilities.
-Armifer
Cute verbs and speaking from hiding are excellent ways to catch a lightning bolt in the face regardless of mystical ninja abilities.
-Armifer
KEZEV
Re: Looking for some training ideas...
07/07/2009 03:42 PM CDT
Gotta admit my favorite use for SSTR is CvC. Win or loose, there's nothing like knowing they'll be sitting trying to dig those rocks out of them for the next 10 minutes.
Why so serious?
Why so serious?
IRONBONE
Re: Looking for some training ideas...
07/07/2009 03:46 PM CDT
"Gotta admit my favorite use for SSTR is CvC. Win or loose, there's nothing like knowing they'll be sitting trying to dig those rocks out of them for the next 10 minutes."
When you put it like that, it does now seem like it be a useful spell. ;-)
When you put it like that, it does now seem like it be a useful spell. ;-)
ROBERTDH
Re: Looking for some training ideas...
07/07/2009 03:56 PM CDT
Stone Strike might get a boostie after the soon-ish combat changes since it's been mentioned that lodged weapons should be more significant.
"...I am inclined to think the focus of the [Warmage's] spellbook should be ways to make things explode, to help you make things explode, or to assist your victim in exploding." -Armifer
"...I am inclined to think the focus of the [Warmage's] spellbook should be ways to make things explode, to help you make things explode, or to assist your victim in exploding." -Armifer
