Path Focus admittance or Aether spell: echo
If path, summoning skill keeps it up. Drains charge like normal. If self-cast then it works like DB.
Stare <target> to shoot small bits of elemental charge at them. The charge clings to them making it easier for you to hit the target with TM spells and weapons.
Teaches TM spell, and challenges TM skill for success. The pathways work both directions. It's easier for them to hit you too.
Path Focus impedance or Aether spell, Syphon (meta to echo)
If path, summoning skill keeps it up. Drains charge like normal. If self-cast then it works like DB.
After you shoot the particles at your target via echo, you can inhale <target> to pull the bits of charge back to you. This increases your elemental charge, assuming you aren't at your limit (stun if so). You also render the target mute until they regain charge naturally through elemental osmosis (or hit with a TM spell). While mute, you deal slightly less damage and have a much higher challenge (which grants better experience - I know this isn't how it works, but think of this as symbiosis for TM).
Still teaches TM when you shoot, and greatly increases the learning of the next spell cast.
DERIUM
JHALIASCLERIC
Re: Suggestion: A few perks to ease TM ranges, especially at low levels
10/08/2016 02:38 PM CDT
I likethe idea of interacting with charge like this. Or having charge be more than just anotherpool to keep up.
SARAGOS
Re: Suggestion: A few perks to ease TM ranges, especially at low levels
10/09/2016 02:24 AM CDT
> Path Focus admittance or Aether spell: echo
So this makes it easier to hit with TM and weapons. Leaving aside the balance implications of this, is this actually a problem you're having at low levels? My defenses have lagged behind my offensive ability since day 1. Also, you kind of already have the TM part of this effect in Substratum, and can acquire the weapons part with Tailwind and/or Mantle of Flame.
That said, the idea of an ability that helps you hit and helps them hit is interesting. Sort of like a berserk-type ability? Maybe something that might be possible as an ability that consumes all elemental charge and turbocharges you for a short time with your elemental infusedness before hitting you with a bunch of penalties.
Path Focus impedance or Aether spell, Syphon (meta to echo)
There actually used to be something like this ages ago - remember targeting body parts for extra experience? While something like this would certainly be helpful until you hit the critters with much larger ranges, I'm not sure that this would be something the current batch of GM's would go for. I believe it's been stated that they feel that people are underhunting, and the trend has been towards tightening the ranges, rather than broadening them. Underhunting, I believe, is seen as a problem because it effectively removes the danger element from hunting.
- Saragos
So this makes it easier to hit with TM and weapons. Leaving aside the balance implications of this, is this actually a problem you're having at low levels? My defenses have lagged behind my offensive ability since day 1. Also, you kind of already have the TM part of this effect in Substratum, and can acquire the weapons part with Tailwind and/or Mantle of Flame.
That said, the idea of an ability that helps you hit and helps them hit is interesting. Sort of like a berserk-type ability? Maybe something that might be possible as an ability that consumes all elemental charge and turbocharges you for a short time with your elemental infusedness before hitting you with a bunch of penalties.
Path Focus impedance or Aether spell, Syphon (meta to echo)
There actually used to be something like this ages ago - remember targeting body parts for extra experience? While something like this would certainly be helpful until you hit the critters with much larger ranges, I'm not sure that this would be something the current batch of GM's would go for. I believe it's been stated that they feel that people are underhunting, and the trend has been towards tightening the ranges, rather than broadening them. Underhunting, I believe, is seen as a problem because it effectively removes the danger element from hunting.
- Saragos
DERIUM
Re: Suggestion: A few perks to ease TM ranges, especially at low levels
10/09/2016 08:45 AM CDT
> There actually used to be something like this ages ago - remember targeting body parts for extra experience?
Called shots are still a thing, and I think they allow more experience; however, you can't use them with the best trainerss. Chain Lightning. Fireball. Gar Zeng.
> Underhunting, I believe, is seen as a problem because it effectively removes the danger element from hunting.
Frankly, I don't see that changing. I'm a fan of overhunting. I find it engaging from a player perspective, but it's not the right way to play this game because it hurts your character in the long run, and this game is all about the long-haul.
The catch is that if you're hunting at the level of your primaries then your tertiaries will eventually drop to a crawl. Even your secondaries will slow down, assuming you survive long enough. Your primaries (in this case offenses) will eventually so outpace your tertiaries (in this case defenses) that you have to stop hunting at that level and backtrain. When you're backtraining, you have to stop using your primary skills altogether or you're going to kill far too quickly.
Until they make it more rewarding in the long-run to hunt something that is a significant challenge, and I'm not even talking about the potential for death, then it's just not the right move to do it. As I don't see that massive of a project being undertaken, and I don't even know if it's possible with the way the game is currently designed (unless you let anyone hunt anything and always learn), I'd like another option. A symbiosis of sorts of TM spells.
NINEVAH1
Re: Suggestion: A few perks to ease TM ranges, especially at low levels
10/09/2016 01:09 PM CDT
>>Called shots are still a thing, and I think they allow more experience
They don't. Targeting a body part just makes it harder to land a hit, but doesn't alter the exp gained (except in the case of ambushing body parts for Backstabbing).
They don't. Targeting a body part just makes it harder to land a hit, but doesn't alter the exp gained (except in the case of ambushing body parts for Backstabbing).
JHALIASCLERIC
Re: Suggestion: A few perks to ease TM ranges, especially at low levels
10/09/2016 02:59 PM CDT
Are peolle having a problem training tm? My warmie is only in the mid 60s,but as a comparator, my cleric and moonie never had problems moving tm.
DERIUM
Re: Suggestion: A few perks to ease TM ranges, especially at low levels
10/09/2016 04:43 PM CDT
> They don't. Targeting a body part just makes it harder to land a hit, but doesn't alter the exp gained (except in the case of ambushing body parts for Backstabbing
Wow, that's good to know. Thanks.
SARAGOS
Re: Suggestion: A few perks to ease TM ranges, especially at low levels
10/09/2016 05:50 PM CDT
> Are peolle having a problem training tm? My warmie is only in the mid 60s,but as a comparator, my cleric and moonie never had problems moving tm.
That's kind of what I was asking. I wasn't trying to sound snarky - I know text is bad for that. I'm legitimately curious.
When I brought Saragos back to the game he was 37th circle, and now I have more than 100 more than that. In all that time, I never really had a problem training TM. The only real issue I ever ran into was capping out TM on a critter before I was ready to move on with the rest of my skills, particularly defenses. Fortunately, though, due to larger ranges, that issue kind of disappearsafter around 200 ranks in combats. Since then, I've been able to keep everything locking in the same place.
- Saragos
That's kind of what I was asking. I wasn't trying to sound snarky - I know text is bad for that. I'm legitimately curious.
When I brought Saragos back to the game he was 37th circle, and now I have more than 100 more than that. In all that time, I never really had a problem training TM. The only real issue I ever ran into was capping out TM on a critter before I was ready to move on with the rest of my skills, particularly defenses. Fortunately, though, due to larger ranges, that issue kind of disappearsafter around 200 ranks in combats. Since then, I've been able to keep everything locking in the same place.
- Saragos
FRANKYFIGGS
Re: Suggestion: A few perks to ease TM ranges, especially at low levels
10/10/2016 10:00 AM CDT
isnt the difficulty of performing the action still part of the equation? so finely targeting would increase xp?
-Munch-
-Munch-
NINEVAH1
Re: Suggestion: A few perks to ease TM ranges, especially at low levels
10/10/2016 11:45 PM CDT
>>isnt the difficulty of performing the action still part of the equation? so finely targeting would increase xp?
I don't know what it looks like behind the scenes, but targeting a body-part does not increase the exp gained. If anything it will decrease how much you learn because 9 time out of 10 you will miss or do a very small amount of damage. If you are landing strong hits on specific body-parts then you can already kill them easily, and more than likely don't teach you that well.
If it did increase the amount of exp you gained per hit then everyone would be targeting eyes once they closed in on skill caps.
I don't know what it looks like behind the scenes, but targeting a body-part does not increase the exp gained. If anything it will decrease how much you learn because 9 time out of 10 you will miss or do a very small amount of damage. If you are landing strong hits on specific body-parts then you can already kill them easily, and more than likely don't teach you that well.
If it did increase the amount of exp you gained per hit then everyone would be targeting eyes once they closed in on skill caps.
FAMEBRIGHT
Re: Suggestion: A few perks to ease TM ranges, especially at low levels
10/11/2016 01:03 AM CDT
>>isnt the difficulty of performing the action still part of the equation?
Combat exp only cares about the difference between your offensive skill and the target's defenses. This means you gain some experience for missing, but it doesn't reward you for penalizing yourself.
>If it did increase the amount of exp you gained per hit then everyone would be targeting eyes once they closed in on skill caps.
The right eye was the only thing anyone ever attacked, for years. The modern system is better in terms of rewarding having actual fun.
"Warrior Mages don't bother covering up their disasters.
They're proud of them."
-Raesh
Combat exp only cares about the difference between your offensive skill and the target's defenses. This means you gain some experience for missing, but it doesn't reward you for penalizing yourself.
>If it did increase the amount of exp you gained per hit then everyone would be targeting eyes once they closed in on skill caps.
The right eye was the only thing anyone ever attacked, for years. The modern system is better in terms of rewarding having actual fun.
"Warrior Mages don't bother covering up their disasters.
They're proud of them."
-Raesh
SHEATH
Re: Suggestion: A few perks to ease TM ranges, especially at low levels
10/11/2016 09:55 AM CDT
I target body parts whenever something has significant damage to a particular body part. Like, if you have bleeding in your chest, I'll target the chest with the end result usually being much bigger damage (it seems anyway based on messaging).
Does this not impact training? I thought TM trained based on the amount of damage done. So if I'm prepping the same, and not missing, wouldn't targeting a body part that results in larger damage train better? Or alternatively, do I have no idea how any of this works (I've been back for less than a week and never played WM in the past).
Does this not impact training? I thought TM trained based on the amount of damage done. So if I'm prepping the same, and not missing, wouldn't targeting a body part that results in larger damage train better? Or alternatively, do I have no idea how any of this works (I've been back for less than a week and never played WM in the past).
JHALIASCLERIC
Re: Suggestion: A few perks to ease TM ranges, especially at low levels
10/11/2016 11:01 AM CDT
I'm not sure this is a valid data point, but because I had this conversation recently, I'll throw it up there -
My Necromancer absolutely locks TM faster using larger casts of VIVI than he does using smaller casts of VIVI. The same is true of my Barbarian with respect to harder hitting weapon routines/buff configurations.
I'm not sure if combat XP properly scales with damage done, but I am generally under the impression that more damage = more xp. The caveat, of course, is if you're killing everything faster than it spawns, and have dead time, in which case you're probably underhunting for that offensive skill anyway.
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Suggestion: A few perks to ease TM ranges, especially at low levels
10/11/2016 11:14 AM CDT
>>My Necromancer absolutely locks TM faster using larger casts of VIVI than he does using smaller casts of VIVI.
While there might be a damage bonus, IIRC you get an exp bonus the more you push yourself when casting TM (and debilitation) spells.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
While there might be a damage bonus, IIRC you get an exp bonus the more you push yourself when casting TM (and debilitation) spells.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
FAMEBRIGHT
Re: Suggestion: A few perks to ease TM ranges, especially at low levels
10/11/2016 02:06 PM CDT
>I thought TM trained based on the amount of damage done.
Previous to 3.0, all attacks (weapons and TM) trained based on damage done. Many years ago there was a bonus for artificially inflating difficulty (target right eye), but that was removed a very long time ago. 3.0 changed combat to reward you based on relative difficulty of your target. Damage now provides a bonus to experience gained, but experience is no longer a function of damage (related: damage is no longer a straight function of accuracy).
The combat 3.0 summary should still be true:
https://elanthipedia.play.net/Combat_3.0#Experience
"Warrior Mages don't bother covering up their disasters.
They're proud of them."
-Raesh
Previous to 3.0, all attacks (weapons and TM) trained based on damage done. Many years ago there was a bonus for artificially inflating difficulty (target right eye), but that was removed a very long time ago. 3.0 changed combat to reward you based on relative difficulty of your target. Damage now provides a bonus to experience gained, but experience is no longer a function of damage (related: damage is no longer a straight function of accuracy).
The combat 3.0 summary should still be true:
https://elanthipedia.play.net/Combat_3.0#Experience
"Warrior Mages don't bother covering up their disasters.
They're proud of them."
-Raesh
ASHBOMB
Re: Suggestion: A few perks to ease TM ranges, especially at low levels
10/11/2016 05:08 PM CDT
Conjecture:
Damage messaging isn't wholly related to the amount of damage per strike, but a subsequent final damage point placement.
I.E. If a target has a clean chest/vit (0/0) and you hit them for a heavy(5) strike to the chest, after absorption they'll be at (arbitrary)(4/3)
A second strike will use that base (4/3) for consideration of your next attack (along with target balance and all other factors) so if you hit them for another +5, it might now be a severe strike to the chest, because of previous damage, and they'll be at (8/6) or somesuch.
So for the first swing, you would receive (aribtrary)+0.7 to the exp pool, but for the second(arbitrary)+0.85.
I dont think this is soley how it works, but i think it factors in. This comes from lots of testing with various body parts.
"Game balance is sobbing over in the corner as it considers the ramifications of AoE Blufmor Garaen. Your spell slots send their condolences." - GM Raesh
JHALIASCLERIC
Re: Suggestion: A few perks to ease TM ranges, especially at low levels
10/11/2016 09:18 PM CDT
>Damage now provides a bonus to experience gained, but experience is no longer a function of damage (related: damage is no longer a straight function of accuracy).
I'm not sure I'm understanding your point. From the Wiki: Higher damage will still grant more experience, but it will no longer be the major determinator of experience.
I'm not sure I'm understanding your point. From the Wiki: Higher damage will still grant more experience, but it will no longer be the major determinator of experience.
FAMEBRIGHT
Re: Suggestion: A few perks to ease TM ranges, especially at low levels
10/11/2016 09:27 PM CDT
>Damage messaging isn't wholly related to the amount of damage per strike, but a subsequent final damage point placement.
Damage messaging is some ratio of their remaining limb vitality compared to the incoming damage. Messy!
>>Damage now provides a bonus to experience gained, but experience is no longer a function of damage (related: damage is no longer a straight function of accuracy).
>I'm not sure I'm understanding your point. From the Wiki: Higher damage will still grant more experience, but it will no longer be the major determinator of experience.
Uh, yeah that was maybe convoluted and how the system used to work probably isn't relevant... the point was it used to work that damage (and I think only damage) translated directly into experience. Now damage is just one bonus factor.
"Warrior Mages don't bother covering up their disasters.
They're proud of them."
-Raesh
Damage messaging is some ratio of their remaining limb vitality compared to the incoming damage. Messy!
>>Damage now provides a bonus to experience gained, but experience is no longer a function of damage (related: damage is no longer a straight function of accuracy).
>I'm not sure I'm understanding your point. From the Wiki: Higher damage will still grant more experience, but it will no longer be the major determinator of experience.
Uh, yeah that was maybe convoluted and how the system used to work probably isn't relevant... the point was it used to work that damage (and I think only damage) translated directly into experience. Now damage is just one bonus factor.
"Warrior Mages don't bother covering up their disasters.
They're proud of them."
-Raesh
SARAGOS
Re: Suggestion: A few perks to ease TM ranges, especially at low levels
10/11/2016 10:13 PM CDT
>>Damage now provides a bonus to experience gained, but experience is no longer a function of damage (related: damage is no longer a straight function of accuracy).
>I'm not sure I'm understanding your point. From the Wiki: Higher damage will still grant more experience, but it will no longer be the major determinator of experience.
You gain more experience for using higher mana and doing more damage, but it's not the primary factor. A hypothetical WM might see something like:
* Casting FB at crocs, half cap - 1 mindstate.
* Casting FB at crocs, at cap - 2 mindstates.
* Casting FB at vipers, half cap, 4 mindstates.
* Casting FB at vipers, half cap, 5 mindstates.
More damage via more mana helps, doing more damage via buffing with substratum helps, waiting for full target helps, using an AoE spell helps. But the most important thing is to make sure you're hunting the right creature. Remember that the experience slows before it stops, so if you're having trouble, try a different target. If you're killing them too fast, that's often a good sign to consider a tougher creature as well.
- Saragos
>I'm not sure I'm understanding your point. From the Wiki: Higher damage will still grant more experience, but it will no longer be the major determinator of experience.
You gain more experience for using higher mana and doing more damage, but it's not the primary factor. A hypothetical WM might see something like:
* Casting FB at crocs, half cap - 1 mindstate.
* Casting FB at crocs, at cap - 2 mindstates.
* Casting FB at vipers, half cap, 4 mindstates.
* Casting FB at vipers, half cap, 5 mindstates.
More damage via more mana helps, doing more damage via buffing with substratum helps, waiting for full target helps, using an AoE spell helps. But the most important thing is to make sure you're hunting the right creature. Remember that the experience slows before it stops, so if you're having trouble, try a different target. If you're killing them too fast, that's often a good sign to consider a tougher creature as well.
- Saragos
JHALIASCLERIC
Re: Suggestion: A few perks to ease TM ranges, especially at low levels
10/12/2016 09:06 AM CDT
Right. Everything Saragos just wrote jives with my experiences.
