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TOTLIIO
Re: ON TEST - Perceive Elements and New Casting Modifiers
03/25/2016 10:24 AM CDT
Thanks, Raesh.
Any idea when the new changes will go live (and FRS?)
DR-RAESH
Re: ON TEST - Perceive Elements and New Casting Modifiers
03/25/2016 10:36 AM CDT
Feedback has been good so far - so it's mostly a matter of converting the other guilds, collecting some more feedback, and pushing it all off the cliff.
Couple of weeks maybe?
-Raesh
"It was wise enough to know itself, and brave enough to BE itself, and wild enough to change itself while somehow staying altogether true." ― The Slow Regard of Silent Things
Couple of weeks maybe?
-Raesh
"It was wise enough to know itself, and brave enough to BE itself, and wild enough to change itself while somehow staying altogether true." ― The Slow Regard of Silent Things
TOTLIIO
Re: ON TEST - Perceive Elements and New Casting Modifiers
03/25/2016 10:47 AM CDT
Sweet. Im gonna muck around on test more this weekend when I have time and see if I can break anything with it.
Any thoughts on some high end creeps that arent fire resistant for CL testing?
ASHAMAN1
Re: ON TEST - Perceive Elements and New Casting Modifiers
03/25/2016 11:02 AM CDT
Try Bone Wyverns, Ice Archons, Intercessors, or Moths.
Samsaren
Samsaren
GABRIEL4
Re: ON TEST - Perceive Elements and New Casting Modifiers
03/25/2016 11:54 AM CDT
<<All spell abbreviations are one word. STS and FRS are correct in this case.
I think part of their concern with the target verb is that the full spell name does not work with it either. It wasn't just about abbreviations.
H>targ stone strike
You have no idea how to cast that spell.
H>prep stone strike
Since you're not feeding enough power into the spell pattern to make it coherent, you quickly work your way to the minimum required.
That won't affect your current attunement very much.
You trace a geometric sigil in the air, shaping the pattern of the Stone Strike spell.
I think part of their concern with the target verb is that the full spell name does not work with it either. It wasn't just about abbreviations.
H>targ stone strike
You have no idea how to cast that spell.
H>prep stone strike
Since you're not feeding enough power into the spell pattern to make it coherent, you quickly work your way to the minimum required.
That won't affect your current attunement very much.
You trace a geometric sigil in the air, shaping the pattern of the Stone Strike spell.
DR-RAESH
Re: ON TEST - Perceive Elements and New Casting Modifiers
03/25/2016 12:18 PM CDT
The parsing with the target verb is very finicky since it needs to parse a lot of different things (What spell you're prepping, how much mana, and what you're targetting). I wouldn't expect that to improve, particularly when there's an easy work around (Using the abbreviations.)
-Raesh
"It was wise enough to know itself, and brave enough to BE itself, and wild enough to change itself while somehow staying altogether true." ― The Slow Regard of Silent Things
-Raesh
"It was wise enough to know itself, and brave enough to BE itself, and wild enough to change itself while somehow staying altogether true." ― The Slow Regard of Silent Things
SARAGOS
Re: ON TEST - Perceive Elements and New Casting Modifiers
03/25/2016 07:50 PM CDT
New CL is causing me to be targeted by my own CL regularly. Reminded me of the old days!
> tar cl at creature
Since you're not feeding enough power into the spell pattern to make it coherent, you quickly work your way to the minimum required.
That won't affect your current attunement very much.
You trace a hasty sigil in the air, shaping the pattern of the Chain Lightning spell.
You begin to weave mana lines into a targeting pattern centered around yourself, seeking out anything obviously hostile around you.
>
Your target pattern has finished forming around the area.
> harn 40
You tap into the mana from forty of the surrounding streams and attempt to keep it channeling in a stream around you.
Roundtime: 2 sec.
R> harn 40
You tap into the mana from forty of the surrounding streams and add it to the great amount already streaming around you.
Roundtime: 2 sec.
> cast
You thrust your arms before you, fingers splayed.
You contribute your harnessed streams to increase the pattern's potential.
A storm of blinding white lighting arcs from your fingertips!
A warklin mauler stares in shock at the remains of its left leg as it is blown completely off its body by a lightning bolt.
A bolt of lightning narrowly misses Saragos!
An armored warklin flinches as a bolt grazes its right leg and scorches the skin.
The armored warklin is lightly stunned!
Roundtime: 2 sec.
- Saragos
> tar cl at creature
Since you're not feeding enough power into the spell pattern to make it coherent, you quickly work your way to the minimum required.
That won't affect your current attunement very much.
You trace a hasty sigil in the air, shaping the pattern of the Chain Lightning spell.
You begin to weave mana lines into a targeting pattern centered around yourself, seeking out anything obviously hostile around you.
>
Your target pattern has finished forming around the area.
> harn 40
You tap into the mana from forty of the surrounding streams and attempt to keep it channeling in a stream around you.
Roundtime: 2 sec.
R> harn 40
You tap into the mana from forty of the surrounding streams and add it to the great amount already streaming around you.
Roundtime: 2 sec.
> cast
You thrust your arms before you, fingers splayed.
You contribute your harnessed streams to increase the pattern's potential.
A storm of blinding white lighting arcs from your fingertips!
A warklin mauler stares in shock at the remains of its left leg as it is blown completely off its body by a lightning bolt.
A bolt of lightning narrowly misses Saragos!
An armored warklin flinches as a bolt grazes its right leg and scorches the skin.
The armored warklin is lightly stunned!
Roundtime: 2 sec.
- Saragos
DR-RAESH
Re: ON TEST - Perceive Elements and New Casting Modifiers
03/25/2016 07:57 PM CDT
Haha. It's a message error, the spell hasn't been qc'd again. I'll fix it up tomorrow.
-Raesh
"It was wise enough to know itself, and brave enough to BE itself, and wild enough to change itself while somehow staying altogether true." ― The Slow Regard of Silent Things
-Raesh
"It was wise enough to know itself, and brave enough to BE itself, and wild enough to change itself while somehow staying altogether true." ― The Slow Regard of Silent Things
TOTLIIO
Re: ON TEST - Perceive Elements and New Casting Modifiers
03/25/2016 08:37 PM CDT
Hi Raesh,
YS seems to be acting funky on test. It thinks its a ritual spell for some reason, but if you try to invoke a foci it thinks its thunderclap. My genie also shows it as prepping thunderclap when i prep it. Then I noticed this when I prep YS:
> prep ys 50
Since you're attempting to feed more power into the spell pattern than it is capable of utilizing, you quickly work your way down to its maximal potential.
You trace a careful sigil in the air, shaping the pattern of the Y'ntrel Sechra spell.
> conc
You reach out with your senses and see glaring (19/21) streams of roiling Elemental mana coursing through the area.
Letting your senses extend further, you feel there is flaring (18/21) mana to the northwest.
You sense the Sure Footing spell upon you, which will last for about twenty-eight roisaen.
You sense the Aegis of Granite spell upon you, which will last for about seventy-six roisaen.
You sense the Swirling Winds spell upon you, which will last for about twenty-seven roisaen.
You sense the Substratum spell upon you, which will last for about twenty-seven roisaen.
You sense the Tailwind spell upon you, which will last for about twenty-nine roisaen.
You are preparing the Thunderclap spell at nine hundred ninety-one mana.
Roundtime: 3 sec.
Notice that last line! Thunderclap 999! Thats a mean thunderclap!
DR-RAESH
Re: ON TEST - Perceive Elements and New Casting Modifiers
03/25/2016 08:50 PM CDT
Was this recent or yesterday? I fixed something this morning with ritual spells that was causing some funky issues like this but not sure why it's think YS was a ritual spell.
-Raesh
"It was wise enough to know itself, and brave enough to BE itself, and wild enough to change itself while somehow staying altogether true." ― The Slow Regard of Silent Things
-Raesh
"It was wise enough to know itself, and brave enough to BE itself, and wild enough to change itself while somehow staying altogether true." ― The Slow Regard of Silent Things
TOTLIIO
Re: ON TEST - Perceive Elements and New Casting Modifiers
03/25/2016 09:09 PM CDT
>>Was this recent or yesterday? I fixed something this morning with ritual spells that was causing some funky issues like this but not sure why it's think YS was a ritual spell.
Was like 10 mins ago. Saragos was seeing the same thing as well.
Also spell harness messaging isnt working when you prep a spell. The messaging that tells you roughly how much harness the prep is using.
GABRIEL4
Re: ON TEST - Perceive Elements and New Casting Modifiers
03/25/2016 09:30 PM CDT
<<Also spell harness messaging isnt working when you prep a spell. The messaging that tells you roughly how much harness the prep is using.
Make sure you have harness verbose set. I'm not sure if that setting carries over from prime to test or not.
Make sure you have harness verbose set. I'm not sure if that setting carries over from prime to test or not.
SARAGOS
Re: ON TEST - Perceive Elements and New Casting Modifiers
03/26/2016 03:38 AM CDT
Before I say anything else, I want to point out that this is a big change with many moving parts. Between new mana regeneration mechanics, new mana costs on spells, and new AoE damage templates, I can't hope to test as thoroughly as I would like in a short time. As such, my initial findings are mostly based on how things felt. I'd like to take more time and give a more nuanced opinion. For reference, in Test I have 535 TM, 707 Attunement, and 814 Elemental Magic.
Overview
Overall, it looks like we got a larger mana pool, but that the recovery rate is greatly reduced. For anyone who's evaluating the changes, make sure to take note that if your mana level is going down as you cast, you're not casting in a sustainable way – you'll run out, even if it looks like each spell is taking less out of you than it was before.
Spamming Spells
My ability to spam spells at any mana amount feels pretty noticeably reduced. I did not attempt to precisely figure out what the exact amount I can spend continuously and still recover it, but it definitely seems lower than before. This will likely be felt the strongest in clutch situations and less during hunting for most people.
Cyclics
Cyclics may need to be rebalanced. My ability to throw multiple spells around while using a cyclic is greatly reduced. Before, with a 22 mana cyclic spell in a 15 mana room, I could easily see where I was and reach an equilibrium point of mana, and was able to throw around spells while I'm doing it. Now, with that same setup, my mana just doesn’t recover very much at all. The more I cast, the lower I get until I run out.
In the testing I did, this feels like a large nerf, considering I used to be able to keep that cyclic going, cast CL at 60 mana every so often, and continue to reload a MAB besides. Now, I put up the cyclic, cast a few times, and then I'm basically done and out of mana. I can choose to release the cyclic to get mana back, or just let the cyclic do its thing.
As a Warrior Mage, this feels like a problem, as juggling multiple sources of TM and casting AoE's is kind of what WM's do. Apparently this is easier according to some at higher circle, but it’s rough where I am now. Being magic prime and having all of these various options doesn't mean anywhere near as much if they're hard to stack. Simply lowering the mana usage is problematic because many TM spells, cyclic or otherwise, rely on how much mana is put in to determine how many bolts you get.
Area Effect TM
I think AoE TM is too weak in the context of the new system, at least at my skill level. I am aware that their damage was uptweaked, but damage-wise, I can't tell much difference on the new AoE templates without extensive testing. And in context of their increased cost, it just doesn't feel like enough. Specifically, AoE spells do not feel like they are a very good option compared to chain-casting single-target spells. On warklins in Test, I could kill them almost all the time with two casts of a capped GZ, while it seems to take around three for CL to kill anything near cap. Heck, even casting it a couple of times in a row near cap was extremely difficult to find the mana for.
On the surface, the math looks good. Hit one critter for a 50 mana cap, or hit 4 critters for a 150 mana cap. You're more efficient in a 4v1 situation and quicker, right?
The problem is that mana expenditure is not linear. Harnessing 30+30 is a lot more mana efficient than harnessing 60. In Test, in a 15 mana room, 30+30 leaves me at 78% from full, while 60 leaves me at 69%. Thus, in order to cast an expensive AoE spell in the same timeframe as the cheap, single-target spell, I must harness in larger increments and therefore lose mana efficiency. This means that, in practice, the AoE spell is actually MORE than 3x more expensive than the other TM spells. This wouldn't be a problem if AoE's did more damage, but they still don't feel very devastating, and it appears that the intention for them still is that you have to spam them to get anywhere.
There are other issues, of course, too, with that much mana that make it less attractive than spamming single target spells. If you harness, you're exposed to more roundtime and have a greater chance of leakage and nerve damage. If you use cambrinth, you've got the problem of having enough worn cambrinth to hit 150 as well as the absurd roundtime for putting that much mana into it.
Casting a 150 mana spell feels significantly more painful in this new system than it would have in the old one. Some other people higher than me have said it feels ok. This may, unfortunately, mean that the situation as it stands reserves AoE TM spells for the 150+ crowd. Also, for me, the gap between single target and AoE seems absolutely enormous, and feels very strange.
Spell Difficulty
A lot of spells raised in difficulty. This is fine for me, but it seems like everything but the basics is a lot harder now. It was odd to see that I can't even cap PW anymore. This is a mixed bag. I feel like it adds depth to the overall spell package, but I wonder if it will lead to new players feeling like there are few options they can effectively cast, once they move past the basics.
Blufmor Garaen
The boost to 150 mana for this spell feels particularly harsh, considering it's already had its damage reduced, it has a low duration so you can't save it up, and the number of shots is dependant on mana spent. With the new mana situation, you can't just keep shoving 150 mana into a spell in the middle of combat and still have mana left for other things unless you're at the absolute top of the ladder, but it's hard to effectively pre-cast it either. My feeling is that with the increased cost and with the reduction in cost to everything else in PvP, this spell doesn't have much of a niche at this anymore except for HLC's.
Conclusion and Suggestions
Overall, I think the framework is fine, but the end result negatively impacts many things that I associated as core parts of the WM guild. Stacking multiple sources of TM damage is much more difficult, and AoE's got harder to use when I was already struggling with their usefulness.
On the other hand, my first reaction was that 33 mana capped Ice Patch was OP madness. Cheap debil and single target TM spells stands in sharp contrast to the AoE's and might be a bit much – but then I guess everyone’s going to have that. We'll have to see, and it’s going to take a while to shake the balance out in PvP. That kind of thing is very hard to test for. But in general, I think these changes tend to push WM's to move towards being more of a single-target killers rather than mass destruction type unless they’re at very high levels, which is disappointing to me.
1) Rebalance cyclic spell costs and/or mana drain, or remove the mana dependency for number of blades from spells like Rimefang and instead base them off of skill, allowing the damage to not drop off so sharply at lower mana levels, easing the mana burden on those with less skill. If I could only pick one thing to be listened to on, it’s this.
2) I was going to suggest changing mana costs to be linear, but I feel that's too much a part of what DR magic is. Instead, either lower mana costs significantly for AoE's and leave the spells as they are, or boost damage and change the number of bolts/blades/whatever on TM spells to be skill based rather than mana based, and let mana scale damage. I'd even be ok with cooldowns on the AoE's if necessary.
3) Please, seriously consider letting Arcana reduce the roundtime for putting mana in cambrinth. This is especially painful at the high end. Putting 120 mana into cambrinth takes around 30 seconds, +/- a few depending on how you break it up.
4) A boost to mana regen may be in order, but how much will need a lot more testing than I was able to give to confirm.
- Saragos
Overview
Overall, it looks like we got a larger mana pool, but that the recovery rate is greatly reduced. For anyone who's evaluating the changes, make sure to take note that if your mana level is going down as you cast, you're not casting in a sustainable way – you'll run out, even if it looks like each spell is taking less out of you than it was before.
Spamming Spells
My ability to spam spells at any mana amount feels pretty noticeably reduced. I did not attempt to precisely figure out what the exact amount I can spend continuously and still recover it, but it definitely seems lower than before. This will likely be felt the strongest in clutch situations and less during hunting for most people.
Cyclics
Cyclics may need to be rebalanced. My ability to throw multiple spells around while using a cyclic is greatly reduced. Before, with a 22 mana cyclic spell in a 15 mana room, I could easily see where I was and reach an equilibrium point of mana, and was able to throw around spells while I'm doing it. Now, with that same setup, my mana just doesn’t recover very much at all. The more I cast, the lower I get until I run out.
In the testing I did, this feels like a large nerf, considering I used to be able to keep that cyclic going, cast CL at 60 mana every so often, and continue to reload a MAB besides. Now, I put up the cyclic, cast a few times, and then I'm basically done and out of mana. I can choose to release the cyclic to get mana back, or just let the cyclic do its thing.
As a Warrior Mage, this feels like a problem, as juggling multiple sources of TM and casting AoE's is kind of what WM's do. Apparently this is easier according to some at higher circle, but it’s rough where I am now. Being magic prime and having all of these various options doesn't mean anywhere near as much if they're hard to stack. Simply lowering the mana usage is problematic because many TM spells, cyclic or otherwise, rely on how much mana is put in to determine how many bolts you get.
Area Effect TM
I think AoE TM is too weak in the context of the new system, at least at my skill level. I am aware that their damage was uptweaked, but damage-wise, I can't tell much difference on the new AoE templates without extensive testing. And in context of their increased cost, it just doesn't feel like enough. Specifically, AoE spells do not feel like they are a very good option compared to chain-casting single-target spells. On warklins in Test, I could kill them almost all the time with two casts of a capped GZ, while it seems to take around three for CL to kill anything near cap. Heck, even casting it a couple of times in a row near cap was extremely difficult to find the mana for.
On the surface, the math looks good. Hit one critter for a 50 mana cap, or hit 4 critters for a 150 mana cap. You're more efficient in a 4v1 situation and quicker, right?
The problem is that mana expenditure is not linear. Harnessing 30+30 is a lot more mana efficient than harnessing 60. In Test, in a 15 mana room, 30+30 leaves me at 78% from full, while 60 leaves me at 69%. Thus, in order to cast an expensive AoE spell in the same timeframe as the cheap, single-target spell, I must harness in larger increments and therefore lose mana efficiency. This means that, in practice, the AoE spell is actually MORE than 3x more expensive than the other TM spells. This wouldn't be a problem if AoE's did more damage, but they still don't feel very devastating, and it appears that the intention for them still is that you have to spam them to get anywhere.
There are other issues, of course, too, with that much mana that make it less attractive than spamming single target spells. If you harness, you're exposed to more roundtime and have a greater chance of leakage and nerve damage. If you use cambrinth, you've got the problem of having enough worn cambrinth to hit 150 as well as the absurd roundtime for putting that much mana into it.
Casting a 150 mana spell feels significantly more painful in this new system than it would have in the old one. Some other people higher than me have said it feels ok. This may, unfortunately, mean that the situation as it stands reserves AoE TM spells for the 150+ crowd. Also, for me, the gap between single target and AoE seems absolutely enormous, and feels very strange.
Spell Difficulty
A lot of spells raised in difficulty. This is fine for me, but it seems like everything but the basics is a lot harder now. It was odd to see that I can't even cap PW anymore. This is a mixed bag. I feel like it adds depth to the overall spell package, but I wonder if it will lead to new players feeling like there are few options they can effectively cast, once they move past the basics.
Blufmor Garaen
The boost to 150 mana for this spell feels particularly harsh, considering it's already had its damage reduced, it has a low duration so you can't save it up, and the number of shots is dependant on mana spent. With the new mana situation, you can't just keep shoving 150 mana into a spell in the middle of combat and still have mana left for other things unless you're at the absolute top of the ladder, but it's hard to effectively pre-cast it either. My feeling is that with the increased cost and with the reduction in cost to everything else in PvP, this spell doesn't have much of a niche at this anymore except for HLC's.
Conclusion and Suggestions
Overall, I think the framework is fine, but the end result negatively impacts many things that I associated as core parts of the WM guild. Stacking multiple sources of TM damage is much more difficult, and AoE's got harder to use when I was already struggling with their usefulness.
On the other hand, my first reaction was that 33 mana capped Ice Patch was OP madness. Cheap debil and single target TM spells stands in sharp contrast to the AoE's and might be a bit much – but then I guess everyone’s going to have that. We'll have to see, and it’s going to take a while to shake the balance out in PvP. That kind of thing is very hard to test for. But in general, I think these changes tend to push WM's to move towards being more of a single-target killers rather than mass destruction type unless they’re at very high levels, which is disappointing to me.
1) Rebalance cyclic spell costs and/or mana drain, or remove the mana dependency for number of blades from spells like Rimefang and instead base them off of skill, allowing the damage to not drop off so sharply at lower mana levels, easing the mana burden on those with less skill. If I could only pick one thing to be listened to on, it’s this.
2) I was going to suggest changing mana costs to be linear, but I feel that's too much a part of what DR magic is. Instead, either lower mana costs significantly for AoE's and leave the spells as they are, or boost damage and change the number of bolts/blades/whatever on TM spells to be skill based rather than mana based, and let mana scale damage. I'd even be ok with cooldowns on the AoE's if necessary.
3) Please, seriously consider letting Arcana reduce the roundtime for putting mana in cambrinth. This is especially painful at the high end. Putting 120 mana into cambrinth takes around 30 seconds, +/- a few depending on how you break it up.
4) A boost to mana regen may be in order, but how much will need a lot more testing than I was able to give to confirm.
- Saragos
DR-RAESH
Re: ON TEST - Perceive Elements and New Casting Modifiers
03/26/2016 04:04 AM CDT
>>Before I say anything else, I want to point out that this is a big change with many moving parts. Between new mana regeneration mechanics, new mana costs on spells, and new AoE damage templates, I can't hope to test as thoroughly as I would like in a short time. As such, my initial findings are mostly based on how things felt.
I wish these two projects hadn't collided... but they did. I'm hopefully as other guilds convert over we'll be able to separate the effects more.
>>Overall, it looks like we got a larger mana pool, but that the recovery rate is greatly reduced.
This is really going to depend on what part of the mana curve you're use to operating in.
It's also possible you're seeing this more than you might expecting depending on your elemental mods. They're fairly strong right now so it's worth knowing if you're in favorable conditions or not, particularly if you are going to be spamming or running a cyclic.
>>Area Effect TM
I'm leaning towards reducing the cost of AoE TM (And maybe debil). The other option would be to punch them up more, but that route is problematic.
>>Spell Difficulty
Most spells shouldn't have changed difficulty much (Only CL really changed, and that was to lower it). I need to verify there isn't something odd going on here.
>>1) Rebalance cyclic spell costs and/or mana drain, or remove the mana dependency for number of blades from spells like Rimefang and instead base them off of skill, allowing the damage to not drop off so sharply at lower mana levels, easing the mana burden on those with less skill. If I could only pick one thing to be listened to on, it’s this.
I'm of two mind here. I agree, the scaling is weird and my gut is I'd like to see it more linear - but I also want to encourage using lots of mana on cyclics vs running on the minimum rail. How do others feel?
>>3) Please, seriously consider letting Arcana reduce the roundtime for putting mana in cambrinth.
Let me check with the powers that be.
Thank you for the detailed feedback!
-Raesh
"It was wise enough to know itself, and brave enough to BE itself, and wild enough to change itself while somehow staying altogether true." ― The Slow Regard of Silent Things
I wish these two projects hadn't collided... but they did. I'm hopefully as other guilds convert over we'll be able to separate the effects more.
>>Overall, it looks like we got a larger mana pool, but that the recovery rate is greatly reduced.
This is really going to depend on what part of the mana curve you're use to operating in.
It's also possible you're seeing this more than you might expecting depending on your elemental mods. They're fairly strong right now so it's worth knowing if you're in favorable conditions or not, particularly if you are going to be spamming or running a cyclic.
>>Area Effect TM
I'm leaning towards reducing the cost of AoE TM (And maybe debil). The other option would be to punch them up more, but that route is problematic.
>>Spell Difficulty
Most spells shouldn't have changed difficulty much (Only CL really changed, and that was to lower it). I need to verify there isn't something odd going on here.
>>1) Rebalance cyclic spell costs and/or mana drain, or remove the mana dependency for number of blades from spells like Rimefang and instead base them off of skill, allowing the damage to not drop off so sharply at lower mana levels, easing the mana burden on those with less skill. If I could only pick one thing to be listened to on, it’s this.
I'm of two mind here. I agree, the scaling is weird and my gut is I'd like to see it more linear - but I also want to encourage using lots of mana on cyclics vs running on the minimum rail. How do others feel?
>>3) Please, seriously consider letting Arcana reduce the roundtime for putting mana in cambrinth.
Let me check with the powers that be.
Thank you for the detailed feedback!
-Raesh
"It was wise enough to know itself, and brave enough to BE itself, and wild enough to change itself while somehow staying altogether true." ― The Slow Regard of Silent Things
DR-RAESH
Re: ON TEST - Perceive Elements and New Casting Modifiers
03/26/2016 11:00 AM CDT
Ah - I somehow missed the update for YS. It should be fixed now. Weird that it thought it was a ritual spell.
-Raesh
"It was wise enough to know itself, and brave enough to BE itself, and wild enough to change itself while somehow staying altogether true." ― The Slow Regard of Silent Things
-Raesh
"It was wise enough to know itself, and brave enough to BE itself, and wild enough to change itself while somehow staying altogether true." ― The Slow Regard of Silent Things
TOTLIIO
Re: ON TEST - Perceive Elements and New Casting Modifiers
03/26/2016 11:21 AM CDT
>>Ah - I somehow missed the update for YS. It should be fixed now. Weird that it thought it was a ritual spell.
No problem, as you said it was a lot of spells to go over and you might miss one, which is why i tested all the ones I had, anyway.. lol.
TOTLIIO
Re: ON TEST - Perceive Elements and New Casting Modifiers
03/26/2016 11:29 AM CDT
>>Saragos' post
I think the larger pool is why I didnt think I felt this as bad, although i didnt mess with cyclics much while casting. I will give that a whirl.
>>I'm of two mind here. I agree, the scaling is weird and my gut is I'd like to see it more linear - but I also want to encourage using lots of mana on cyclics vs running on the minimum rail. How do others feel?
I think its unfortunate that unless I am playing my cleric I am very hesitant to put maximum mana into a cyclic at 1000+ ranks of magic. POM helps to even things out with that. For other casters who don't have that luxury (like a wm) it really isnt practical to do a high mana cyclic unless you want to run out of mana in a few casts, which feels wrong but I always assumed was the design.
Also, my testing with CL in Both void moths and umbral moths showed that it definitely did hit a lot harder than my previous post was showing (the one where i was testing on cabs/drakes). I will admit, though, that im struggling to understand its place beyond that it hits a room instead of clustered targets (like fireball). I thought it was strange that it does fire damage at all. Wouldnt it make more sense for it to do all electricity damage, leaving the fire to fireball/fire rain? Electricity already has a fire option with shockwave-->flame shockwave. It also doesnt seem to teach all that great even on voids, even though it seemed to hit decently hard. Out of curiosity beyond RP/flavor what do you see as the purpose for CL vs other AE?
DR-RAESH
Re: ON TEST - Perceive Elements and New Casting Modifiers
03/26/2016 12:25 PM CDT
>>I will admit, though, that im struggling to understand its place beyond that it hits a room instead of clustered targets (like fireball). I thought it was strange that it does fire damage at all. Wouldnt it make more sense for it to do all electricity damage, leaving the fire to fireball/fire rain?
It use to do equal parts electrical and fire. It now (as of a few minutes ago) is weighted to electrical. This matches Lightning Bolt.
>>Out of curiosity beyond RP/flavor what do you see as the purpose for CL vs other AE?
Right now it's the simplest of the AoE spells in the Warrior Mage roster (which is why it was the one I pulled it down earlier in the tree). It's also the a different damage type than your other options.
-Raesh
"It was wise enough to know itself, and brave enough to BE itself, and wild enough to change itself while somehow staying altogether true." ― The Slow Regard of Silent Things
It use to do equal parts electrical and fire. It now (as of a few minutes ago) is weighted to electrical. This matches Lightning Bolt.
>>Out of curiosity beyond RP/flavor what do you see as the purpose for CL vs other AE?
Right now it's the simplest of the AoE spells in the Warrior Mage roster (which is why it was the one I pulled it down earlier in the tree). It's also the a different damage type than your other options.
-Raesh
"It was wise enough to know itself, and brave enough to BE itself, and wild enough to change itself while somehow staying altogether true." ― The Slow Regard of Silent Things
DR-RAESH
Re: ON TEST - Perceive Elements and New Casting Modifiers
03/26/2016 12:45 PM CDT
I just knocked down the cost of complex (mostly AoE) TM/debilitation and normal cyclic TM spells a bit. (As always, this is for test only).
-Raesh
"It was wise enough to know itself, and brave enough to BE itself, and wild enough to change itself while somehow staying altogether true." ― The Slow Regard of Silent Things
-Raesh
"It was wise enough to know itself, and brave enough to BE itself, and wild enough to change itself while somehow staying altogether true." ― The Slow Regard of Silent Things
TOTLIIO
Re: ON TEST - Perceive Elements and New Casting Modifiers
03/26/2016 12:55 PM CDT
>>It use to do equal parts electrical and fire. It now (as of a few minutes ago) is weighted to electrical. This matches Lightning Bolt.
Awesome! Will check it out.
>>Right now it's the simplest of the AoE spells in the Warrior Mage roster (which is why it was the one I pulled it down earlier in the tree). It's also the a different damage type than your other options.
Ahh, I missed that part that it jumped down earlier. Makes a lot more sense now.
TOTLIIO
Re: ON TEST - Perceive Elements and New Casting Modifiers
03/26/2016 02:05 PM CDT
So I just finished on test again.
Re: CL. Seems pretty much the same, but for a lower tier TM spell it seems ok.
Fireball: I remember yesterday this had a 150 mana cap, now its 100. Intended?
YS works fine now.
I asked gauthus about magic and he listed the spells in a nice format similar to stormfront. Not sure if intended or not but it sure was easy on the eyes.
Kept EE up at 20 mana and spammed some 150 mana shockwaves and CL's. Mana was at a deficit but it didnt seem horrendous and with some pausing it could stay up solid. I didnt test it before so I cannot compare since the changes Raesh just made, but Saragos can so hopefully he does.
Side note: any thoughts on giving some more appraisal messaging to show if a foe is strong/weak against certain elements/damage types?
SARAGOS
Re: ON TEST - Perceive Elements and New Casting Modifiers
03/26/2016 02:59 PM CDT
> This is really going to depend on what part of the mana curve you're use to operating in.
> It's also possible you're seeing this more than you might expecting depending on your elemental mods. They're fairly strong right now so it's worth knowing if you're in favorable conditions or not, particularly if you are going to be spamming or running a cyclic.
I operate in different areas of the mana curve depending on what I'm doing. In hunting, as long as I can still effectively cast for training, everything's good, and I often sit higher on the curve. In PvP, invasions, the Duskruin, I'm riding the bottom of that curve, because I'm trying to maximize my damage output.
I'll double check on the elemental mods.
> I'm of two mind here. I agree, the scaling is weird and my gut is I'd like to see it more linear - but I also want to encourage using lots of mana on cyclics vs running on the minimum rail. How do others feel?
Well, here's the thing - number of attacks scaling with mana is not evenly applied. Several AoE spells, cyclic or not, just don't care - Fire Rain and Pyre, for example. My view is that with single target spells, as long as the damage curve makes sense, if I put less mana in it doesn't matter too much whether I did less damage because my air lash was weaker or because there were fewer bolts on my gar zeng. However, when I look at Rimefang, if I use low mana I'm getting a single target spell but have all of the associated penalties of AoE spells. During testing of Rimefang I thought it was just a bad spell, but some other folks told me it was actually good at higher skill. And sure enough, when I got a little better, I saw a lot more use for it.
> Right now it's the simplest of the AoE spells in the Warrior Mage roster (which is why it was the one I pulled it down earlier in the tree). It's also the a different damage type than your other options.
I hate to complain about getting slots back, but my preference is usually for making the spells better and costing more slots, rather than reducing them. I like CL because it's our one true AoE damage dealer that's not cyclic. Shockwave is more of a specialty spell due to the knockback, which I don't want to happen in most situations. I'm currently on the fence on if I'm going to have room for it in my final spell roster. It depends on how much I like the new stuff coming out.
> I just knocked down the cost of complex (mostly AoE) TM/debilitation and normal cyclic TM spells a bit. (As always, this is for test only).
Awesome, Raesh! I'll take a look at it later tonight when I can spend the time to properly test things.
- Saragos
> It's also possible you're seeing this more than you might expecting depending on your elemental mods. They're fairly strong right now so it's worth knowing if you're in favorable conditions or not, particularly if you are going to be spamming or running a cyclic.
I operate in different areas of the mana curve depending on what I'm doing. In hunting, as long as I can still effectively cast for training, everything's good, and I often sit higher on the curve. In PvP, invasions, the Duskruin, I'm riding the bottom of that curve, because I'm trying to maximize my damage output.
I'll double check on the elemental mods.
> I'm of two mind here. I agree, the scaling is weird and my gut is I'd like to see it more linear - but I also want to encourage using lots of mana on cyclics vs running on the minimum rail. How do others feel?
Well, here's the thing - number of attacks scaling with mana is not evenly applied. Several AoE spells, cyclic or not, just don't care - Fire Rain and Pyre, for example. My view is that with single target spells, as long as the damage curve makes sense, if I put less mana in it doesn't matter too much whether I did less damage because my air lash was weaker or because there were fewer bolts on my gar zeng. However, when I look at Rimefang, if I use low mana I'm getting a single target spell but have all of the associated penalties of AoE spells. During testing of Rimefang I thought it was just a bad spell, but some other folks told me it was actually good at higher skill. And sure enough, when I got a little better, I saw a lot more use for it.
> Right now it's the simplest of the AoE spells in the Warrior Mage roster (which is why it was the one I pulled it down earlier in the tree). It's also the a different damage type than your other options.
I hate to complain about getting slots back, but my preference is usually for making the spells better and costing more slots, rather than reducing them. I like CL because it's our one true AoE damage dealer that's not cyclic. Shockwave is more of a specialty spell due to the knockback, which I don't want to happen in most situations. I'm currently on the fence on if I'm going to have room for it in my final spell roster. It depends on how much I like the new stuff coming out.
> I just knocked down the cost of complex (mostly AoE) TM/debilitation and normal cyclic TM spells a bit. (As always, this is for test only).
Awesome, Raesh! I'll take a look at it later tonight when I can spend the time to properly test things.
- Saragos
DR-RAESH
Re: ON TEST - Perceive Elements and New Casting Modifiers
03/26/2016 03:24 PM CDT
To clarify - this is pure buffs for chain lightning. It also happened to drop down the tree some so you can pick it up and use it earlier in your career.
Rimefang could use some tweaking it sounds like. I'll take look.
As far as appraising what the enemy is weak to... that's kind of complex but I'll give it some thought.
-Raesh
"It was wise enough to know itself, and brave enough to BE itself, and wild enough to change itself while somehow staying altogether true." ― The Slow Regard of Silent Things
Rimefang could use some tweaking it sounds like. I'll take look.
As far as appraising what the enemy is weak to... that's kind of complex but I'll give it some thought.
-Raesh
"It was wise enough to know itself, and brave enough to BE itself, and wild enough to change itself while somehow staying altogether true." ― The Slow Regard of Silent Things
BIRDO
Re: ON TEST - Perceive Elements and New Casting Modifiers
03/27/2016 03:47 PM CDT
I have a question regarding the new CL vs FB.
CL - 1 spell slot, hits everything, min prep 15, max prep 100
FB - 2 spell slots, only hits clustered (engaged) enemies, min prep 15, max prep 100
I realize this stuff is in flux, but currently isn't CL clearly superior on paper, yet costs less slots? Or does FB have some added benefits I'm not taking into account.
CL - 1 spell slot, hits everything, min prep 15, max prep 100
FB - 2 spell slots, only hits clustered (engaged) enemies, min prep 15, max prep 100
I realize this stuff is in flux, but currently isn't CL clearly superior on paper, yet costs less slots? Or does FB have some added benefits I'm not taking into account.
THAYET
Re: ON TEST - Perceive Elements and New Casting Modifiers
03/27/2016 03:51 PM CDT
FB teaches a heck of a lot better if you consider that a benefit. I think the multistrike mechanic it uses is different.
Thayet
@thayelf // http://thayette.tumblr.com
"But you must know that if corruption is powerful enough, it's not corruption at all — it's law. Unspoken, unwritten, but law." — Robert Jackson Bennett, City of Stairs
Thayet
@thayelf // http://thayette.tumblr.com
"But you must know that if corruption is powerful enough, it's not corruption at all — it's law. Unspoken, unwritten, but law." — Robert Jackson Bennett, City of Stairs
DR-RAESH
Re: ON TEST - Perceive Elements and New Casting Modifiers
03/27/2016 04:01 PM CDT
Fireball is a weird spell. In some ways it's more tactical than normal AoE - and it certainly will prep faster.
Is that enough to make it 2 slots vs 1? Likely. I tend to think that the reason 1 slot is the default cost for TM spells isn't so much that they're only worth 1 slot but that having more than one of them has strong diminishing returns. That's why DFA spells are 2 slots. Armor Piercing spells are going to be 2 slots. Neither does more damage (generally speaking), but they're increasing your options.
-Raesh
"It was wise enough to know itself, and brave enough to BE itself, and wild enough to change itself while somehow staying altogether true." ― The Slow Regard of Silent Things
Is that enough to make it 2 slots vs 1? Likely. I tend to think that the reason 1 slot is the default cost for TM spells isn't so much that they're only worth 1 slot but that having more than one of them has strong diminishing returns. That's why DFA spells are 2 slots. Armor Piercing spells are going to be 2 slots. Neither does more damage (generally speaking), but they're increasing your options.
-Raesh
"It was wise enough to know itself, and brave enough to BE itself, and wild enough to change itself while somehow staying altogether true." ― The Slow Regard of Silent Things
FAMEBRIGHT
Re: ON TEST - Perceive Elements and New Casting Modifiers
03/28/2016 12:41 AM CDT
>CL - 1 spell slot, hits everything...
>FB - 2 spell slots, only hits clustered (engaged) enemies...
In regular PvE, this is a pretty immaterial difference. In invasions the strike limit makes the difference pretty immaterial, too. CL only really shines in PvP, which is kind of it's niche these days anyway.
Re: Life mana Spell preps
You raise your hands in the air. You wave them like you just don't care. Somebody says, "Hey!" Somebody says, "Ho!" Somebody screams.
>FB - 2 spell slots, only hits clustered (engaged) enemies...
In regular PvE, this is a pretty immaterial difference. In invasions the strike limit makes the difference pretty immaterial, too. CL only really shines in PvP, which is kind of it's niche these days anyway.
Re: Life mana Spell preps
You raise your hands in the air. You wave them like you just don't care. Somebody says, "Hey!" Somebody says, "Ho!" Somebody screams.
GNIKOLEYCHUK
Re: ON TEST - Perceive Elements and New Casting Modifiers
03/30/2016 02:43 PM CDT
You know, I was wondering today why you didn't implement a Moon Mage style system where each book actually has different mana levels. On the surface this system seems much more complex. I imagine it was easier under the hood to do it this way but I was curious enough to ask.
DR-RAESH
Re: ON TEST - Perceive Elements and New Casting Modifiers
03/30/2016 03:18 PM CDT
>>You know, I was wondering today why you didn't implement a Moon Mage style system where each book actually has different mana levels. On the surface this system seems much more complex. I imagine it was easier under the hood to do it this way but I was curious enough to ask.
That would be VASTLY more complicated on the technical side.
This also keeps elemental mana "clean" for other systems to interact with (See: All the Bard spells that don't use this system, sorcery spells, etc).
-Raesh
"It was wise enough to know itself, and brave enough to BE itself, and wild enough to change itself while somehow staying altogether true." ― The Slow Regard of Silent Things
That would be VASTLY more complicated on the technical side.
This also keeps elemental mana "clean" for other systems to interact with (See: All the Bard spells that don't use this system, sorcery spells, etc).
-Raesh
"It was wise enough to know itself, and brave enough to BE itself, and wild enough to change itself while somehow staying altogether true." ― The Slow Regard of Silent Things
FAMEBRIGHT
Re: ON TEST - Perceive Elements and New Casting Modifiers
03/30/2016 04:52 PM CDT
It's not exactly a new system for warrior mages, either. It's just not something one generally noticed or cared about in recent magic systems.
Re: Life mana Spell preps
You raise your hands in the air. You wave them like you just don't care. Somebody says, "Hey!" Somebody says, "Ho!" Somebody screams.
Re: Life mana Spell preps
You raise your hands in the air. You wave them like you just don't care. Somebody says, "Hey!" Somebody says, "Ho!" Somebody screams.
RAISER
Re: ON TEST - Perceive Elements and New Casting Modifiers
04/01/2016 03:30 AM CDT
Not sure where would have been best to post this, but since this is a large thread relating to the magic stuff on test here goes...
Ok, cleric here, just testing purely for the mana regen stuff, did short simple tests, one on live and one on test.
Max PoM up (600 mana), 40 mana HyH/Male going (cyclic debil, capped), 5 casts of FoU at 100 mana (TM spell).
Small loss of attunement on Test vs Prime, on Prime after the fifth cast I was at 43% mana, on Test after the fifth cast I was at 37% mana left. Doesn't look like there's much change, I mean that 6% could have just been from pulse placement. I have 1313 attunement, is this why I'm only seeing a negligible difference? Or is my test sample just too small, I haven't done much testing for this stuff, usually leave that to you pros out there.
DR-RAESH
Re: ON TEST - Perceive Elements and New Casting Modifiers
04/01/2016 07:42 AM CDT
>>Small loss of attunement on Test vs Prime, on Prime after the fifth cast I was at 43% mana, on Test after the fifth cast I was at 37% mana left. Doesn't look like there's much change, I mean that 6% could have just been from pulse placement. I have 1313 attunement, is this why I'm only seeing a negligible difference? Or is my test sample just too small, I haven't done much testing for this stuff, usually leave that to you pros out there.
The amount of mana you have available isn't changing (Actually, that's a lie, your pools are slightly larger as a prime or secondary on test after the update I made on the 28th). It's the recovery rate that changed. So testing is more about endurance.
-Raesh
"It was wise enough to know itself, and brave enough to BE itself, and wild enough to change itself while somehow staying altogether true." ― The Slow Regard of Silent Things
The amount of mana you have available isn't changing (Actually, that's a lie, your pools are slightly larger as a prime or secondary on test after the update I made on the 28th). It's the recovery rate that changed. So testing is more about endurance.
-Raesh
"It was wise enough to know itself, and brave enough to BE itself, and wild enough to change itself while somehow staying altogether true." ― The Slow Regard of Silent Things
HASTALUEGO
Re: ON TEST - Perceive Elements and New Casting Modifiers
04/04/2016 07:11 PM CDT
>>In the Test Instance only, Dragon's Breath is now a Heavy TM spell. This means that it should hit much harder, and both the cooldown and duration have gone up across the board.
Gonna try and jump in and look at this. Thanks Grejuva.
Gonna try and jump in and look at this. Thanks Grejuva.
HASTALUEGO
Re: ON TEST - Perceive Elements and New Casting Modifiers
04/04/2016 09:16 PM CDT
I have a question about FRS. Does the armor penetration increase as more mana is pumped into the spell?
I ask because I saw some very similar effects/numbers when utilizing FRB in comparison with FB on both the creatures I hunt, and another player. Oddly enough the player had chain armor that protected better against Fire than Cold and I was still damaging equal or more with FB using the same mana.
I would say it might be the new elemental room features allowing me to acquire more with less in terms of FB, but the room I hunted in had worse fire conditions.
I ask because I saw some very similar effects/numbers when utilizing FRB in comparison with FB on both the creatures I hunt, and another player. Oddly enough the player had chain armor that protected better against Fire than Cold and I was still damaging equal or more with FB using the same mana.
I would say it might be the new elemental room features allowing me to acquire more with less in terms of FB, but the room I hunted in had worse fire conditions.
DR-RAESH
Re: ON TEST - Perceive Elements and New Casting Modifiers
04/05/2016 06:30 AM CDT
The armor pen is static. Chain is likely around the break even point between when you should consider switching spells.
-Raesh
"It was wise enough to know itself, and brave enough to BE itself, and wild enough to change itself while somehow staying altogether true." ― The Slow Regard of Silent Things
-Raesh
"It was wise enough to know itself, and brave enough to BE itself, and wild enough to change itself while somehow staying altogether true." ― The Slow Regard of Silent Things
RHAZIN
Re: ON TEST - Perceive Elements and New Casting Modifiers
04/05/2016 06:38 AM CDT
Looks like Chain Lightning doesn't have the correct prereqs on test.
> ask gau about chain lightning spell
Gauthus says, "The Chain Lightning spell unleashes blasts of lightning that strike at multiple targets in the area. Before you can learn this spell, you must be circle 10. Additionally, you must know one of Gar Zeng or Lightning Bolt. It will also cost one spell slot. It can be targeted."
He adds, "If you are interested in learning it, I will gladly teach it to you."
[Type "choose chain lightning spell" (without the quotes) to learn it.]
Should those be the updated ones instead of the old ones?
Also, is there a way to quickly forget spells on test to test out other ones? Or is it limited to Throne City mechanics?
> ask gau about chain lightning spell
Gauthus says, "The Chain Lightning spell unleashes blasts of lightning that strike at multiple targets in the area. Before you can learn this spell, you must be circle 10. Additionally, you must know one of Gar Zeng or Lightning Bolt. It will also cost one spell slot. It can be targeted."
He adds, "If you are interested in learning it, I will gladly teach it to you."
[Type "choose chain lightning spell" (without the quotes) to learn it.]
Should those be the updated ones instead of the old ones?
Also, is there a way to quickly forget spells on test to test out other ones? Or is it limited to Throne City mechanics?
DR-RAESH
Re: ON TEST - Perceive Elements and New Casting Modifiers
04/05/2016 06:47 AM CDT
Those are the correct ones, yes.
Also I just turned on the global preview in Test. I thought this had already been done but... it had not.
-Raesh
"It was wise enough to know itself, and brave enough to BE itself, and wild enough to change itself while somehow staying altogether true." ― The Slow Regard of Silent Things
Also I just turned on the global preview in Test. I thought this had already been done but... it had not.
-Raesh
"It was wise enough to know itself, and brave enough to BE itself, and wild enough to change itself while somehow staying altogether true." ― The Slow Regard of Silent Things
TOTLIIO
Re: ON TEST - Perceive Elements and New Casting Modifiers
04/05/2016 07:14 AM CDT
Last night I had a chance to test the heavy tm db. Tried it on fulg moths before I went to bed.
Hits ok? Seems to hit harder than on live.. But not Like crazy amounts harder. Really hard to compare or know what heavy tm is supposed to hit like so it's hard for me to judge since it's a new template.
One question though not sure if it's intended since I'm on mobile at the moment so I can't compare on live... But on test at least if you discern DB it says the spell must be prepped and targeted on one of the lines of text..which had me thinking it had changed completely, but it definitely is still self cast and used with spit. It also mentions spit in the description too so I'm wondering if it's just some funky text?
HASTALUEGO
Re: ON TEST - Perceive Elements and New Casting Modifiers
04/05/2016 07:21 AM CDT
>>Hits ok? Seems to hit harder than on live.. But not Like crazy amounts harder. Really hard to compare or know what heavy tm is supposed to hit like so it's hard for me to judge since it's a new template.
Did you notice consistent stuns too? I went hunting with it and almost each cast registered a stun(Something like 17 out of 20 spits). It seemed fairly consistent in PVP too if I was able to land a decent hit.
I think DB itself was a perfect choice for conversion considering the template already was based on large delays.
Did you notice consistent stuns too? I went hunting with it and almost each cast registered a stun(Something like 17 out of 20 spits). It seemed fairly consistent in PVP too if I was able to land a decent hit.
I think DB itself was a perfect choice for conversion considering the template already was based on large delays.
RHAZIN
Re: ON TEST - Perceive Elements and New Casting Modifiers
04/05/2016 08:28 AM CDT
Spell feedback is for low circle (30ish).
Spell Mechanics
Chain Lightning- I haven't used this since it was a mutli-shot spell a long time ago. Test version seems decent enough. Fills the niche between single target spells and cyclic spells. I like this part a lot. Gives me a feeling of progression before I get to ROS or RIME. Kind of sad that the prereqs are remaining Gar Zeng or Lightning Bolt, since more single target prereqs are so redundant.
Dragon's Breath- I really wanna like this spell but it's just hard. The duration is much better now. I'm casting at 30 mana and getting about 8 minutes. Problem is the cooldown. I'm getting about three spits in those 8 minutes. Could this spell be adjusted to no duration and a capped number of spits? Still have the cooldown, just remove the duration of the spell and have it expire with the last charge. It's kind of functioning like this right now, but as is if you miss a spit you're gimping yourself, and combat scroll (even with highlights) makes it easy to miss. Maybe cranking the damage way up on this one too wouldn't hurt considering the cooldown between uses.
Lightning Bolt- I'm throwing this one in because of all the other spells I tested out. It's hard to justify using this at all. I understand it's still DFA, but it was taking me more casts to kill with this compared to other single target spells. The only reason I'd pick this up in it's current form is to get Chain Lightning. Which kind of sucks. An idea is to roll Chain Lightning into this as a meta spell addition. The meta could give it a % chance or mana based chance to arc to other targets.
New TM Types Comparisons
Stone Strike vs Frost Scythe vs other single target spells- I used STS, FRS, and GEY to kill some thieves in Crossing sewers. I was able to kill in 5 15 mana casts of each. Was actually surprised that GEY did so well. The areas I used were neutral to all of these spells, so there was no wonky environmental penalties or whatnot. I then went out to crocodiles (which does have penalties, but hey, I work with what I have) and saw STS killing faster than FRS. I'm not sure if it's due to the non-armor thing or environmental or whatnot. Was a little bit underwhelmed when comparing these three spells against the armor wearing mobs.
Mana
At the low end I was still able to spam my trusty Fireball to murder everything. On Live I was getting about 3.5% per pulse when nearly out of mana. On Test I get about 3% per pulse always. Seems like a bonus to me. I don't need to tank my attunement to start getting efficient mana regen, even though tanking your attunement and getting a bunch of regen always felt fun. I think that's what this change takes away from, the feeling that you're being clever with the system and planning out your combat casting accordingly. That's okay though. The Test mana model requires less thinking. ;)
Overall I like the new ideas being thrown around in test. I think that some dials maybe need to be flipped and adjusted and tweaked to make each of these new TM models feel distinctly different from existing ones. I understand that with the elemental mods there needs to be some delicacy with the bonuses, but with the Heavy TM and Armor Piercing I feel that delicacy isn't what is in order. Going a bit overboard to make these truly stand out would be preferred (for me).
Spell Mechanics
Chain Lightning- I haven't used this since it was a mutli-shot spell a long time ago. Test version seems decent enough. Fills the niche between single target spells and cyclic spells. I like this part a lot. Gives me a feeling of progression before I get to ROS or RIME. Kind of sad that the prereqs are remaining Gar Zeng or Lightning Bolt, since more single target prereqs are so redundant.
Dragon's Breath- I really wanna like this spell but it's just hard. The duration is much better now. I'm casting at 30 mana and getting about 8 minutes. Problem is the cooldown. I'm getting about three spits in those 8 minutes. Could this spell be adjusted to no duration and a capped number of spits? Still have the cooldown, just remove the duration of the spell and have it expire with the last charge. It's kind of functioning like this right now, but as is if you miss a spit you're gimping yourself, and combat scroll (even with highlights) makes it easy to miss. Maybe cranking the damage way up on this one too wouldn't hurt considering the cooldown between uses.
Lightning Bolt- I'm throwing this one in because of all the other spells I tested out. It's hard to justify using this at all. I understand it's still DFA, but it was taking me more casts to kill with this compared to other single target spells. The only reason I'd pick this up in it's current form is to get Chain Lightning. Which kind of sucks. An idea is to roll Chain Lightning into this as a meta spell addition. The meta could give it a % chance or mana based chance to arc to other targets.
New TM Types Comparisons
Stone Strike vs Frost Scythe vs other single target spells- I used STS, FRS, and GEY to kill some thieves in Crossing sewers. I was able to kill in 5 15 mana casts of each. Was actually surprised that GEY did so well. The areas I used were neutral to all of these spells, so there was no wonky environmental penalties or whatnot. I then went out to crocodiles (which does have penalties, but hey, I work with what I have) and saw STS killing faster than FRS. I'm not sure if it's due to the non-armor thing or environmental or whatnot. Was a little bit underwhelmed when comparing these three spells against the armor wearing mobs.
Mana
At the low end I was still able to spam my trusty Fireball to murder everything. On Live I was getting about 3.5% per pulse when nearly out of mana. On Test I get about 3% per pulse always. Seems like a bonus to me. I don't need to tank my attunement to start getting efficient mana regen, even though tanking your attunement and getting a bunch of regen always felt fun. I think that's what this change takes away from, the feeling that you're being clever with the system and planning out your combat casting accordingly. That's okay though. The Test mana model requires less thinking. ;)
Overall I like the new ideas being thrown around in test. I think that some dials maybe need to be flipped and adjusted and tweaked to make each of these new TM models feel distinctly different from existing ones. I understand that with the elemental mods there needs to be some delicacy with the bonuses, but with the Heavy TM and Armor Piercing I feel that delicacy isn't what is in order. Going a bit overboard to make these truly stand out would be preferred (for me).
