Looking for suggestions, tips 08/27/2012 03:42 PM CDT
Hey there,

Looking for some tips on how to advance my WM. Any advice is welcome.

>info
Name: XXXXX Race: Elf Guild: Warrior Mage
Gender: Male Age: 93 Circle: 58
You were born on the 33rd day of the 4th month of Shorka the Cobra in the year of the Iron Toad, 312 years after the victory of Lanival the Redeemer.

Your birthday is 8 days away.

Strength : 29 Reflex : 39
Agility : 39 Charisma : 36
Discipline : 30 Wisdom : 30
Intelligence : 33 Stamina : 29

Concentration : 168 Max : 168

Favors : 13
TDPs : 43
Encumbrance : Somewhat Burdened

>exp all
Circle: 58
Showing all skills that you have skill in.

SKILL: Rank/Percent towards next rank/Amount learning/Mindstate Fraction
Shield Usage: 240 62% intrigued (16/34) Leather Armor: 197 42% very focused (21/34)
Light Chain: 239 65% focused (20/34) Heavy Chain: 203 96% very focused (21/34)
Light Plate: 4 52% clear (0/34) Heavy Plate: 1 25% clear (0/34)
Parry Ability: 260 64% attentive (10/34) Multi Opponent: 241 13% interested (12/34)
Light Edged: 169 68% examining (13/34) Medium Edged: 202 85% clear (0/34)
Heavy Edged: 169 86% thoughtful (4/34) Twohanded Edged: 169 69% interested (12/34)
Light Blunt: 25 63% clear (0/34) Medium Blunt: 7 06% clear (0/34)
Heavy Blunt: 1 22% clear (0/34) Short Bow: 99 84% cogitating (24/34)
Long Bow: 169 72% riveted (28/34) Light Crossbow: 7 03% clear (0/34)
Short Staff: 1 19% clear (0/34) Quarter Staff: 169 64% clear (0/34)
Pikes: 5 91% clear (0/34) Halberds: 5 97% clear (0/34)
Light Thrown: 170 03% clear (0/34) Heavy Thrown: 10 30% clear (0/34)
Brawling: 170 07% thoughtful (4/34) Offhand Weapon: 169 70% examining (13/34)
Elemental Magic: 330 21% clear (0/34) Harness Ability: 361 74% clear (0/34)
Power Perceive: 334 16% clear (0/34) Arcana: 348 58% clear (0/34)
Targeted Magic: 232 79% clear (0/34) Evasion: 249 73% very focused (21/34)
Climbing: 189 11% clear (0/34) Perception: 224 89% clear (0/34)
Hiding: 171 38% very riveted (29/34) Lockpicking: 136 12% clear (0/34)
Disarm Traps: 137 87% clear (0/34) Stalking: 107 70% clear (0/34)
Stealing: 30 71% clear (0/34) First Aid: 111 74% clear (0/34)
Foraging: 205 03% clear (0/34) Escaping: 132 50% clear (0/34)
Skinning: 203 22% mind lock (34/34) Swimming: 166 28% clear (0/34)
Scholarship: 199 34% clear (0/34) Mechanical Lore: 212 55% clear (0/34)
Appraisal: 216 26% clear (0/34) Teaching: 178 18% clear (0/34)
Animal Lore: 0 87% clear (0/34) Strings: 11 32% clear (0/34)
Vocals: 106 20% clear (0/34)

Total Ranks Displayed: 7688
Time Development Points: 43 Favors: 13 Deaths: 95 Departs: 28
Overall state of mind: clear
EXP HELP for more information

>spell
You recall the spells you have learned from your training.

In the chapter entitled "Aether Manipulation," you have notes on the Ethereal Shield [es], Aether Lash [ala], and Aether Lance [ael] spells.

In the chapter entitled "Electricity Manipulation," you have notes on the Arc Light [al], Tingle, Lightning Bolt [lb], and Gar Zeng [gz] spells.

In the chapter entitled "Fire Manipulation," you have notes on the Fire Shard [fs], Fire Ball [fb], Dragon's Breath [db], and Mantle of Flame [mof] spells.

In the chapter entitled "Water Manipulation," you have notes on the Frostbite [frb], Ice Patch [ip], Veil of Ice [voi], and Fortress of Ice [foi] spells.

In the chapter entitled "Earth Manipulation," you have notes on the Tremor, Sure Footing [suf], Fist of Stone [fos], and Anther's Call [anc] spells.

In the chapter entitled "Air Manipulation," you have notes on the Zephyr, Paeldryth's Wrath [pw], Swirling Winds [sw], and Thunderclap [tc] spells.

In the chapter entitled "Analogous Patterns," you have notes on the Energy Bolt [bolt] and Ease Burden [ease] spells.

You know the following Aether cantrips: Aether Spheres, Aethereal Image, and Pattern Hues.
You know the following Electricity cantrips: Electric Charge and Will O' Wisp.
You know the following Fire cantrips: Burning Touch and Flashpoint.
You know the following Water cantrips: Water Globe and Raincloud.
You know the following Earth cantrips: Stone Seat and Reinforce Stone.
You know the following Air cantrips: Air Blast and Gust of Wind.

You are currently set to recognize known spells when prepared by someone else in the area. (Use SPELL RECOGNIZE OFF to change this.)
You are currently set to display full cast messaging. (Use SPELL BRIEFMSG ON to change this.)
You are currently attempting to hide your spell preparing. (Use PREPARE /HIDE to change this.)
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Re: Looking for suggestions, tips 08/27/2012 06:06 PM CDT

I've never really been good at giving advice. The only piece of advice I can give after looking at that is...

Why are all your combat skills in the 220-240 range moving, but all of your magics are sitting at clear? Especially TM, which is lower than your evasion/parry/multi/shield. The best advice I can give - Keep those magics moving always. Also, using HUNT during combat will keep your perception moving, but since your perception is about even with your combat's, I'm guessing you already do this.

As for stat training advice, I've always been horrible at that so I'd rather not give you bad advice. I keep all mine mostly even, even with my stats in the 45-60 range. I have my "middle" stats that are all at the same number, I then have my "highly-useful" stats I focus on at "middle +5", then my "not-so-useful atm" stats (like charisma) at "middle -5". I've always kept em mostly even just in case any design decisions changed, I wouldn't be drastically effected. I then raise them all, starting at Strength and moving from stat to stat, 5 points at a time. 5 Strength, then 5 Reflex, then 5 Agility, then 5 Charisma, etc. When I finish with Stamina, I go back and restart over at Strength. Not the most efficient, but it works for me.

-Master Ndin
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Re: Looking for suggestions, tips 08/27/2012 06:51 PM CDT
Magics are clear at the moment because I've been on a weapons back-training quest for awhile now. I've trying to bring 2HE/HE/LE/QS/Brawl/LT/Offhand/Longbow up to par with my primary weapon (ME), and eventually use HE as my primary. My thinking was that I would just move all those weapons together when I hunt at level, as well as magics, so I wouldn't have to go back and play catch up with them constantly. I would like to have a variety of viable options for weapons combat, some more for RP reasons than anything. (I'm thinking about doing the same thing for some other armors, like cloth, LP and HP. Maybe throw some pikes and blunts in there.)

As a result of back-training in oshu for awhile now, my defenses jumped ahead of TM. I haven't been too worried about it, because once I get those eight or nine weapons around 200, I can just train pretty much "everything" at once. As I get back to concentrating on circling, hopefully my weapon skills can remain workable and my TM will move to something more respectable.

As far as stats are concerned, I've been trying to play to my strengths as an elf, in terms of TDP conservation. All that charisma might be kind of pointless, but on the other hand, it's nice being dragged by my familiar pretty much every time I get stunned. Agility I figured would be essential for both targeted spells and weapons. High reflex will hopefully mitigate my lack of stamina by allowing me to take less hits.

Generally speaking, I try to train whatever stat is the cheapest, in order to be more 'elf-like.' The exceptions to that are that I've I stopped training charisma, and also wisdom, as I heard that I wouldn't be getting much benefit from raising it above 30 at this point. I've tried to give myself extra intelligence as a balance. Discipline I value more as spellcaster than strength, but as an elf it's kind of hard to train. Strength is also a problem too, as I'm dealing with big 6-sec roundtimes when I use 2HE and QS. I have spent a few extra TDPs to try to even out strength/stamina with agility/reflex a little bit. I'm wondering if I should just try to narrow the gap at this point.

I could have the wrong idea about a lot of this stuff, but, that's why I'm posting here. Keep the advice coming.
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Re: Looking for suggestions, tips 08/27/2012 07:26 PM CDT


Coming from someone who went for the Death Dealer title, and as someone who spent like 2 years constantly back-training various things, I can understand your reasons behind what you're saying. I highly enjoyed it at the time, but now with 3.0 looming I really wish I would have focused on circling at least a little more than I did before.

As you get further up the hunting ladder (and you're stats get higher, like agility), the teaching range for critters becomes very wide-spread. I can train a weapon that is at 200 on the same critter I train my primary weapon on at 350 and my TM at 430. Also, you can drop LE to help make things easier on you, since it's just going to be joining ME with 3.0. It will give bonus bits in your pool, but considering all the weapons you're working, I think you'd get more benefit before 3.0 to stop training it, or only train it once all your other weapons are locked. This also depends on how much play time you typically get. Your priorities if you can play 10 hours per day are going to be drastically different than mine, where some day's I don't even get to log in, or only get 1 hour per day.

Personally, I've joined the "circle as much as you can before 3.0 hits" crowd, because of the grandfathering of ranks. With our top 2 weapon req's going up, I'll be exciting with the ranks I'll be gaining (which is just going to widen the gaps between your primary and 8th weapon if you're set to get any extra ranks). Also, Summoning will be grandfathered based on circle, which considering there won't be very many ways to train it upon 3.0 release, I'm trying to get as many ranks as I can so it doesn't become the skill that always holds me back.

Also, as a warrior mage, your magic skills can never be "too-high". They will be one of the greatest source of TDP's for you to raise stats, and everything except TM can typically be trained 24/7 no matter what else you are doing (except music/etc). I'd say keeping TM even with combats is a smart idea, but there is nothing wrong with any of the other magics being 300+ ranks above your TM. There is absolutely no negative effect to having other magic skills too far ahead of your TM, so I'd also say there is never a good reason for your magic skills to be at clear unless you just logged in, just died, or are RPing.

-Master Ndin, YMMV
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Re: Looking for suggestions, tips 08/27/2012 08:31 PM CDT
Perhaps you caught me in a bit of a lull there, magic wise, but I see what you're saying. In no way am I trying to avoid training magic, it's just that I've been focusing on weapons. With 3.0 looming, I suppose I should reconsider that tactic. I'm not sure how many ranks, if any, I'm set to be grandfathered into. LE aside, I don't want the gap between all those weapons (especially the ranged ones) and my primary weapon to grow too wide. Plus, I'm sick of ME as my primary and I just want to go full HE.

For magic, I do try to keep it moving whenever possible. When I'm training weapons, I basically just cast buffs (ES, Ease, SW, Suf, MoF, and sometimes even VoI.) With the exception of VoI, I try to keep them up all the time. I do throw in some Anc and Frb to mess with the critters I'm dancing with, but keeping the buffs up keeps my attunement down. With constant fighting, I'm not sure how else to train magic simultaneously. This method usually gets me to around 'learning' in magic skills at best, and it quickly pulses down. With TM, there's a gap I've been trying to close, so just blasting everything thing in sight with LB and FB is not really an option.

Should I just try to circle as much as possible and hope for the best? I guess all of this back-training started mainly because I wanted to switch to HE. I figured I might as well learn a few other weapons while I'm at it.

And as far as play time goes, I'm in your boat. I'm certainly in no position to be at this 10 hours a day...
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Re: Looking for suggestions, tips 08/27/2012 09:11 PM CDT
http://www.olwydd.org/guilds/warmage/newcalc.php

As far as I know, that's about as accurate as anybody knows right now. Just plug your current circle into the spot where it says target circle. Anything you are behind on, is supposed to be raised to those requirements, I do believe.

As for casting your buffs, do you just cast each one at X mana, or do you prep low and harness the rest? Your PP is pretty high comparatively, so I'm assuming your using the best mana rooms in Oshu, depending on which tier your in. Honestly, the only real good way to keep magics moving while training, is to keep casting as high of a tier spell as you can, without losing too much attunement. Obviously, since your working weapons, you'll want to use a buff spell or something else non-damaging. Ethereal Fissure can help a lot with this, if you already have the spell (I forgot to look) to boost mana. I used to use Earth Sense in combat to train my magics, since it was high tier and non-damaging, and re-castable.

Also, with regards to TM, I always found Oshu were just too squishy and died way too fast no matter what spell I used. You can try spamming GZ or Bolt at low mana, but I tended to kill even 3rd tier way too easy with magic. Oshu do spawn fast enough (used to at least) that I could at least keep magics moving at a semi-decent rate just by casting 1-3 spells per critter while training weapons. If they die too easy for you that way, you may need to train TM at another critter before/after weapons, or continue with your plan of keeping it even later on.

Cambrinth can be a huge help when hunting if you're running out of mana alot. Fill it up before hunting, and occasionally throw some extra mana in while waiting between critters. You have enough MD to charge while worn. I don't know if you're able to cap your buffs at your magic ranks or not. If you are, charge your camb before you go hunting, and use it together with the prep/harness method, and you'll be able to stretch your mana much farther using only 10-15 mana from your camb per spell. Prep suf 15, harness 8, harness 8, harness 8, focus camb, cast, etc.

I'm also in the process of trying to change my secondary weapon before 3.0 hits, but I'm still 44 ranks away and I don't know if I'll be able to make it or not. I would definitely encourage pushing your HE to be your primary if that's what you want. Since I've been training Halberd up to be my secondary, I've enjoyed it immensely. Just keep in mind 9 weapons takes 9 times as long to train, no matter what level your skills are, and will be 9 times as frustrating while trying to train TM later. Especially if you are in a low-spawn mob, or if you're the only hunter in the area.

I watched all my friends from years ago that kept laughing at my non-stop back training, fly far beyond me in circles, stats, wealth, everything. With new experience, and now that they have higher stats/skills, it's even easier for them to back train faster and easier than I ever did, and looking back on it I see a lot of wasted time. I just don't want you to feel the same way in 3, 6, 12 months and regret it. There were quite a few times I quit playing for months at a time while back training. My character wasn't what I wanted it to be, and I kept getting bored, but I didn't want to keep widening the gaps I was trying to close. I was stuck in a boring catch-22.

Not trying to sound over-bearing, like I'm some kind of a miracle WM, I just don't want you to waste a bunch of time you'll end up regretting later, or getting bored/frustrated at trying to do TOO much and never reaching your end goal, thus making you want to quit like hundreds have done before you (including me, at least 20+ times now). Enjoy your time, this is supposed to be fun, not a 2nd job.

-Master Ndin, who can never quit for more than 6 months at a time.
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Re: Looking for suggestions, tips 08/28/2012 12:50 AM CDT
Hahaha yes, because in playing DR, the LAST thing I want to do is waste time...

Seriously, though, fun is the key here, I agree. It is certainly encouraging to know that the gaps mean less when hunting higher-level critters - this is precisely the kind of information I was looking for. I still like the idea of having a bunch of different weapons on an even keel, but it certainly does take longer. I don't really care about "keeping up" with anyone, but it's nice to know that I'm working towards some kind of goal in some kind of reasonable amount of time.

Here are my results from olwydd, if anyone still cares:

What you need for circle: 0
You have enough Summoning for Circle 0 and need 3 (3) ranks for circle 0


You have enough 1st Weapon (Small Edged) for Circle 53 and need 4 (206) ranks for circle 54
You have enough Targeted Magic for Circle 58 and need 4 (236) ranks for circle 59
You have enough 2nd Weapon (Twohanded Edged) for Circle 66 and need 1 (171) ranks for circle 67
You have enough 1st Magic (Attunement) for Circle 78 and need 3 (365) ranks for circle 79
You have enough 3rd Magic (Augmentation) for Circle 81 and need 1 (298) ranks for circle 82
You have enough 1st Lore (Appraisal) for Circle 82 and need 3 (219) ranks for circle 83
You have enough 2nd Magic (Arcana) for Circle 83 and need 2 (350) ranks for circle 84
You have enough Parry Ability for Circle 85 and need 3 (264) ranks for circle 86
You have enough 1st Armor (Shield Usage) for Circle 90 and need 2 (243) ranks for circle 91
You have enough 4th Magic (Debilitation) for Circle 91 and need 4 (268) ranks for circle 92
You have enough 2nd Lore (Mechanical Lore) for Circle 94 and need 3 (215) ranks for circle 95
You have enough 3rd Lore (Tactics) for Circle 94 and need 3 (205) ranks for circle 95
You have enough 3rd Weapon (Staves) for Circle 100 and need 4 (174) ranks for circle 101
You have enough 5th Magic (Warding) for Circle 101 and need 3 (250) ranks for circle 102
You have enough Scholarship for Circle 109 and need 1 (200) ranks for circle 110
You have enough 2nd Survival (Perception) for Circle 118 and need 2 (227) ranks for circle 119
You have enough 1st Survival (Evasion) for Circle 126 and need 1 (251) ranks for circle 127
You have enough Defending for Circle 128 and need 2 (257) ranks for circle 129
You have enough 4th Survival (Skinning) for Circle 136 and need 1 (204) ranks for circle 137
You have enough 3rd Survival (Outdoorsmanship) for Circle 137 and need 1 (206) ranks for circle 138


Your circle: -1
Total ranks in weapons: 1207
Total ranks in armor: 691
Total ranks in magic: 1980
Total ranks in survival: 1624
Total ranks in lore: 843
Total ranks gained: 7814
Total TDPs gained from ranks: 4233


So if I'm not mistaken, my primary weapon (ME) will be grandfathered in for circle 58? So I guess my plan should be to keep training HE until it surpasses ME? That would be 32 ranks. After that, just try to circle like crazy? I'd like to keep either longbow or LT close to that for a ranged. LE I can probably lose, considering that I would just boost my future ME learning, if I understand correctly? 2HE, offhand, brawling and QS are all fun, but just slowing me down at this point, especially if it will be easier and faster to train them up later.

To answer Ndin's questions, I can and do cap all my buffs, except MoF and VoI. Mainly I cast a lot of Suf, SW, Zephyr, Ease Burden, and MoF. I charge two armbands and two wristbands before hunting. I tend to run out of mana so quickly because I've been avoiding using harnessed mana or cambrinth unless I have to. Otherwise, I use a full straight cast in an attempt (perhaps vain) to boost my PM relative to harness and arcana. I don't know if that is working or even makes sense to do. Right now PM is like 30 ranks behind harness. I usually hunt in the rooms with the best mana. No I don't have FISS yet (I still need AC.)

Anyway, thanks for your thoughts, this has been helpful!
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