alot of the post I see are suggestions for 30-40 circles.

My little baby warmie wants to play too : )

Planning on GZ, es sf zeph,SW.

I'd like to get a good second tier TM spell pretty early on, mostly for entertainment purposes.

Debating FB or SS right now. from my ignorant point of view SS seems maybe better, while FB seems more fun and sets up for mantle of flame and maybe DB.

Suggestions or comments would be appreciated

IMO SSTR is second only to AlA for single target spells for WMs

>>if I go the path of stone, after stonestrike, whats this new spell with the grabbing hands. Seems like it could be a good overhunting spell. Any word on how well it works compared to how hard it is to cast? If i get this spell at level 11. Say I have 45 TM, 50 PM etc. What are the odds I'll be able to successfully cast on a rock troll

Anthers Call (sp?) is more of a Disabler than anything else, sort of like an icepatch etc. at 45 TM you still have considerable amount of good use out of GZ still. I actually just started using Lash at about 150 in TM. Up until then it was Gar Zeng, just raise the mana up a little bit, keep the damage up and I think even now I may be able to get mind locked with it. There are some solid Targetted spells out there, but Notably still is Aether Lash, with the somewhat demise of Chain Lightning, perhaps it is stepping to the forefront. Dont forget to use your pathways as well. Even Gar Zeng with a medium prep along with pathway of Damage can do a bit of knocking around.

But at the end of the day we can give you five hundred different reasons why such and such a spell is better than the other. What it really comes down to is what you want to do with your character. Dont forget about the many resources out there such as Olwydd's, or Elanthipedia. Some may say Dr secrets, but there are a lot of inaccuracies there. Whether intentional or not. It can be misleading. Dont forget too Asking the guildleader in what ever town you are in about the certain spells will give you a good idea too about what the spells can do.

And just to let you know, I am one of the oddballs of the guild my first spell was FOS. I didnt learn a fire spell until over 40th circle. And I only did that so I could learn the Burning Touch cantrip. I have taken up cigar smoking as a hobby.

I think there was a point here at some moment, not sure where it went now though.

I harp on this pretty hard, but there are a core set of spells that are required for WMs to be effective. Keep them up at all times when hunting (it's a great way to train magics, too).

They are: SW, SuF, YS

TM spells: your tier 1 spell can be pretty much anything, but keep an eye toward what you want your tier 2 spell to be. LB, FB, and IP are not great trainers--LB is less accurate, FB will do splash damage (which, can be used to train TM if you're willing to pump more mana into it and keep up ES), and IP requires your opponent to be standing and a number of creatures are immune to it (Icy creatures, belly crawlers, and 4 legged creatures with stubby legs). ALA and SSTR are your best bets for tier 2.

I picked up SSTR when I turned level 10, then dropped it when I turned 25 for ALA.

Get CL at the appropriate time.
I'll define appropriate as two conditions:
1.) when your other magics allow you to cast it effectively
2.) single target spells stop teaching very well

For me, CL wasn't too useful until about circle 50.

After that, you'll have all of the most effective WM spells. The rest of your slots are for fun/flair. If you see yourself needing a boost in one area, get the spell that supports it. Some other good spells to pick up once you have the basics:

1. Rising mists: This gives you about a 65 point bonus to hiding. Not sure about stalking. Very handy. Also penalizes everyone's ranged, but I haven't quantified it. It is significant, though. Also, can be paired with FRB to make it stronger. Useful for putting out MoF early.

2. Tailwind: This spell is pretty tough to cap, only works outside on land. That said, it provides ranged defense and a pretty hefty bonus to ranged weapons fired by you. (Example: I could kill caracals with 100 short bow when I had TW and SuF up.)

3. Ethereal Fissure: Not too tough to get max effect, probably 200s in PM/Harness. You'll need to cast several lower mana preps though. At the high end you'll get 3 or 4 levels higher mana (well, that assumes a lot actually. for example, it assumes that all levels of mana represent the same spread of available mana, which isn't necessarily so. regardless, it's a respectable boost. it gradually decreases with time, but even on the low end the bonus is appreciable)

Disablers: Pick the disabler that fits your stats the best. Tremor is good for the agi/reflex crowd. FRB/SD are good for the stamina/disc crowd. TC is good for the int/disc/cha crowd. All of them have limitations, so your best bet is to have good stats all around so you can use each effectively based on your situation. Disc should be high regardless of which disablers you want to use.

Regarding Anther's Call--It's a good spell. Unfortunately, it is dependent on your environment. It tends to not work indoors. It works best in places that are "earthy." If you're a race that pays less for agi/reflex or if you keep it higher than your other stats, this spell will work well for you. As will Tremor. It lasts about 30 seconds. The frustrating thing is that the longer the spell will last, the longer your RT will be, which means you don't get as much bang for your buck. It seems to last long enough to kill whatever you're fighting if you're within a reasonable range of the creature. For example, I can backtrain weapons in celpeze that are about 50-75 ranks lower than the low cap and still kill them before the spell runs out. Agility and strength, of course, make a big difference here too.

Summary:
1. Get SW, Suf, YS asap. Use them often.
2. Get first tier TM spells that suit your character and lead you toward a tier 2 spell that teaches well. In my mind, this means FoS and AEL. I also like GZ for a first tier spell.
3. Get ALA and/or SSTR
4. Get CL
5. Get the spells to boost your weaknesses or other areas of interest.
6. Get the spells that look fun. No spell is completely broken or useless, other than arc light.

If you go in this order, you'll be picking the spells that offer the most marginal benefit from a purely utilitarian perspective.

Avaya <--Not female.
(But supportive)
Gnome WM of TF
AIM: AvayaTF

>> For TM you can even lock it listening at the WM guild while working your non combat reqs

To nitpick a little, I'd say you have it backwards. Almost all your reqs can be trained in combat. In fact, all of your minimum requirements can be learned without leaving combat. Don't leave combat. Ever. Sometimes you'll have to step out for a few minutes to train stuff like foraging, swimming, or climbing so you can get to more difficult hunting areas or find sticks to make better weapons, but there's no reason to beyond that (from a purely skill-training perspective).

So, the correct statement would be: For teaching, you can even lock it by teaching people while working your combat reqs. And you don't necessarily need teaching at all. Mech, app, scholar, and vocals can all be trained in combat with minimal disruption. Those'll get you to 150th.

Do people really sit around and listen to TM classes?

You have to face the fact that, as a WM, you are going to level at a tertiary rate. Sure, you can level faster than this in the short run, but eventually you're going to need to wait for your combats to catch up to your TM in order to continue on. The sooner you embrace this, the more skills and TDPs you'll have.

Here's the logic: You need defenses to survive. You need to survive to learn TM. You need TM to circle. Defenses are tertiary (other than parry, which is useless if evasion is subpar). Therefore, since your TM is tied to your defenses, your TM will increase at a tertiary rate on average (What you'll see is a burst of TM as soon as you enter a new area, and then it'll stop moving altogether and hold there until your other skills catch up and you can move on again).

So, that's why I say don't ever leave combat. You need to be in combat all the time so your terts catch up. This is less true in the current experience system, though. Once you cap TM in your area, you could lock your defenses then move along to something else for a bit and then run back as soon as they get close to draining.

With this approach to training, SW, SuF, and YS are not for overhunting. They're for very safe at-level hunting and occasionally bridging gaps.

There are more gaps at the low end of the creature ladder, which is sort of why beginners should get them asap.


Avaya <--Not female.
(But supportive)
Gnome WM of TF
AIM: AvayaTF

>>To nitpick a little, I'd say you have it backwards. Almost all your reqs can be trained in combat. In fact, all of your minimum requirements can be learned without leaving combat. Don't leave combat. Ever. Sometimes you'll have to step out for a few minutes to train stuff like foraging, swimming, or climbing so you can get to more difficult hunting areas or find sticks to make better weapons, but there's no reason to beyond that (from a purely skill-training perspective).

I agree with this, and i haven't trained a single skill out of combat in years other then just being stuck on the mainland with nothing better to do. I'm just saying that with the new teaching and new exp for noobs it might be easier to sit in a class and lock TM at first while working mech or foraging, studying your compe, juggling. Yeah I know that these things can be done in combat, but you have to consider that not everyone in prime is as adept at incorporating these things into their scripts no matter how simple it may seem to some of us that have been at it for years.

I'd also add, though...

There's no rush. You're not going to get into the top 5% or even top 10% of Warrior Mages unless everyone else just stops training, and you don't have to be there to enjoy the game. Take your time and try different things, and you'll have more fun over the long haul.


- Mazrian

The Flying Company
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d194/huldahspal/flyingcompany.png

>>That said, my TM is even with my shield at all times. I'm in my upper 60's. I hope this indicates that I certainly do spend a good portion of my time in combat. You can spend every waking moment in combat and circle. But that isn't as fun, to me.

>>From a long term perspective, If you do want to listen to a class, make it shield or evasion, as you will spend more time working on those 2 than any other skill.

You're doing something wrong here. Your TM should be much higher then shield unless you're purposely slowing your TM learning down.

I agree that you should always ask for a shield class but I don't really think you'll spend more time actively training these two skills. They basically lock on their own for me while training weapons and TM.

Also I don't know that i'd be so worried about TM capping on a critter and you not being able to move on because of your tert defenses lagging behind. That's why we have such great buffs. I've always had more trouble with stealth or ranged when moving up, and really that only happened when i moved to celps.

>>You should be hitting the cap for your TM before you hit the cap for your defenses. That's just how it's going to work. Moving on before your defenses catch up a bit is a bad idea though, IMO. I know it's frustrating, but I think it's better to keep your defenses closer to your TM.

I used to think that till i figured out that i'm a warmage and that my main weapon will always be TM and that with sheer numbers (stats and TM) i can overcome anything except a dragon dancing barb. It's good to keep up with defenses but i have something like 200 more in TM then shield and barring an open roll i can lie down with 4 celps on me and barely get scratched. I could have spent like 2 more months in a lower critter, not learning any TM but still locking shield and evasion and i'd still be doing the same thing i am now minus the extra TM ranks i picked up.

Anyways, WM buffs are great for hunting and don't worry about your TM. Keep it moving at all times.

>>
I was told to wait till atleast late teens to pick up YS, I was told its a little harder to cast for real effect and duration is short. I could pick it up though.

Don't listen to that person anymore. YS is stackable so you don't have to worry about duration, you can cap it with several casts. You might not get as much of an initial bonus but it'll still help.

>>I didn't get ES so I'd like a stackable.

That's novel, I don't think I've ever heard of a WM not getting ES

for a wm wanting to train a ranged weapon, what would be the best choice?

>>Which would mean your (buffed?) defenses are +600 and your tm is +800? ::applause::

haha i wish, but seriously buffs and stats go a long way.

>>I like to keep myself in line by training multiple weapons while waiting on defenses. For this I'm termed a Wanna-Be-Barbarian.
Glass Cannon or Wanna-Be Barbarian... There certainly is a middle road there, if you want to take it.

There was another WM who went only by barb reqs for a while, but if i remember her TM was still way over her defenses while still keeping weapons on par.

I would just recommend always keeping TM moving no matter what you're doing as a WM.

>>You can let your TM run ahead, you can even hunt things you must constantly retreat from. These are all possible. But it is much easier to let your TM run ahead 200 ranks when you are fighting creatures that train from 350 ranks to 650 ranks than when the creatures you are fighting train from 25 ranks to 50 ranks.

That's a good point.

>>for a wm wanting to train a ranged weapon, what would be the best choice?

I would recommend thrown weapons. Khaoz does a nice summary, and i actually train LX and SB but always regret not doing a thrown instead. The big advantage of crossbows and shortbows over thrown is obviously the aim time but you'll find that that aim time is hard to come by as a WM. These weapons are most effective for stealth fighters in my opinion.

Although these things always change, you could do a thrown and LX pretty easy and cover your bases.

>>Is tailwind actually useful for ranged? I never trained ranged with my WM so I never got it.

Yeah it's pretty useful, a big cast will make it last a while. I never timed it but it's probably a good half hour. I think it helps a lot more on the defensive side of things thought then it boosts ranged. I'd love it if tailwind was just self cast, it's a pretty hard spell to get off in a crowded room.

>i'm a wannabe barb too...

My 3rd weapon and 23rd weapon have a gap of around .75 of a rank. My 2nd weapon and 3rd weapon have a gap of around 15-16 ranks, but that gap gets smaller each day.

I also train every armor, but those exp gaps are a bit bigger. Approximately 60 ranks from highest to lowest, and it gets larger each day.

-Master Ndin, the weapon freak, who needs to re-design his current armor setup.

Nearly 7500 tdp's from ranks, with just a few more tdp's coming from weapons than magic ranks. This is at level 70.

Ever since I joined the guild and hit level 2, I have never been held back by TM or Overall Magic to circle. It has always been primary weapon, and from about 60-65 secondary weapon also occasionally popped up.

I also train TM every day, and primary/secondary weapon as well. I'm not intentionally sandbagging myself anymore like most would assume. I did that back in my early 50's or so when I first started training all skills, before my 2 year break and before the new title system. Now when I'm playing, I try to keep my circle requirement skills actively learning during at least 75% of my play time, if I'm going to be on for 30 minutes or more in one sitting.

-Master Ndin

can't even get EAS yet, GMs you guys are monsters...

Y so srs?


_____________________
>>I'm constantly amazed by the things that people do in game that would get them punched in the face in RL, but then they try to claim that they didn't do anything that would warrent a PvP situation.<<
-Evran