Something I'd also like to note is that I think the original numbers given were +/- 10%? The gap seems bigger than that in practice, though without having access to all the numbers, I'm not sure how I could test to see if it's working properly. Digging back through Raesh's posts, it looks like he said he was more aggressive with the numbers when he changed how it worked in the second post on this page: http://www.tinyheroes.com/forums/DragonRealms/The%20Warrior%20Mages/Game%20Master%20and%20Official%20Announcements/thread/1771810

> First is an update to the elemental modifiers system that was already on test. Instead of changing difficulty or the mana costs directly it will change the efficacy of your mana. This should be notable (I was aggressive in how much this matters, possibly too much).

I think I missed the size of this in test because, not thinking about it, I did all my tests the way I usually cast - min prep, harness/cambrinth the rest. Mostly because I was concerned with how the new mana recovery would affect my routines.

For example, I found a room that was overwhelmingly favorable to air and overwhelmingly detrimental to earth. I prepped SUF/SW at 100, waited for full prep, and cast. The room was at 13/31 and I had 786 attunement, and I waited until my mana was at 100% before casting. SW cast at 100 brought me to 46% multiple times, and SUF cast at 100% brought me to 0% multiple times.

That seems, on the face of it, to be larger than a 20% gap. It definitely seems bigger than the difference between different MM books. If the plan is still to have harnessing/cambrinth use these modifiers in some way (something which I'm very uncertain about, given the various issues), it might be appropriate to revist the values here.


I'd like to quote ILLIENA from the other thread, because he articulated the issues very well: http://www.tinyheroes.com/forums/DragonRealms/The%20Warrior%20Mages/Responses%20to%20GM%60Official%20Announcements/thread/1772511

> I'm curious how this will work for harnessed and cambrinth, considering that they don't know what element you're going to cast with at the time you harness/charge. I can see two methods, both with pros and cons.

> Suppose I'm in a room where fire takes a 20% penalty. Suppose I harness 10 mana and then cast a fire spell. Presumably harnessing the mana drained my attunement at the neutral rate, which we'll call 1 as a baseline. When I cast the spell, does the system go "oh, you should have been charged at the rate of 1.2 for this harnessed mana, so we'll drain another .2 * 10 = 2 points of attunement now"? Or does it instead say "these 10 points of harnessed mana are at reduced effectiveness, so they only count as 10/1.2 = 8.33 points of mana contributed to the spell"?

> I would greatly prefer the first option, because it means I still have complete control over how much mana I'm putting into a spell. But then there's the question of what happens if I'm getting an elemental bonus instead of a penalty. Does the system go "You should have been charged at the rate of 0.8 for this harnessed mana, so here's 2 points refunded to your attunement"? In that case, if I prep a spell low enough, harness enough mana, and cast in a strongly aligned room, the act of casting might cause a net improvement in my attunement level. Maybe that's not a problem, but it's certainly odd.

- Saragos