I'm a new player, both to Dragonrealms and to the Warrior Mage guild as a whole... So temper this feedback under that lens, as I obviously have a lot to learn still. But I understand the importance of new player feedback for a developer, so I thought I'd share mine, at least pertaining to the starting TM spells.
These spells seem pretty core to the Warrior Mage guild, in that you'll use them throughout your entire career. They're all obviously redundant with one another too, so it's wasteful to select more than one for any reason. If I grow into a Legendary Warrior Mage, and do it "right", I'll only get to experience one of these five spells unless I use my rare and limited retraining options on them. That's a real shame, and definitely breaks with the fantasy of being a master of the elements. Having 80% of the starter toolbox closed, unless you want to limit your progression into the rest of the spell tree, seems like a waste.
It would be really cool if there was someway to unlock these start spells without paying 4 extra spell slots. Maybe tied with Elementalism at Circle 8? I don't see this as power creep issue, since all the spells are directly redundant with one another, but instead would just be opening up more options to play with, and more tactical choices on what spell might work best in each situation. More choices in combat seems like a good thing, even if they're all basically the same power level.
WIZTURBO2
DR-RAESH
Re: Suggestion: Starting TM spells
04/06/2016 03:55 PM CDT
>>I don't see this as power creep issue, since all the spells are directly redundant with one another, but instead would just be opening up more options to play with, and more tactical choices on what spell might work best in each situation.
They aren't directly redundant with each other (All my statements below are based on the test server, but it's not that different from live in this regard):
Gar Zeng is multishot with primary electrical damage, secondary fire.
Fire Shard is multishot with an equal blend of fire and impact.
Stone Strike is multishot with primary puncture and secondary impact (And it can lodge).
Air Lash is single shot with primary slice and secondary puncture.
Geyser is single shot with an equal blend of fire and impact.
I admit, by the time you get to all five of them you're getting less bang for your buck but this is also part of why they're 1 slot spells.
-Raesh
"It was wise enough to know itself, and brave enough to BE itself, and wild enough to change itself while somehow staying altogether true." ― The Slow Regard of Silent Things
They aren't directly redundant with each other (All my statements below are based on the test server, but it's not that different from live in this regard):
Gar Zeng is multishot with primary electrical damage, secondary fire.
Fire Shard is multishot with an equal blend of fire and impact.
Stone Strike is multishot with primary puncture and secondary impact (And it can lodge).
Air Lash is single shot with primary slice and secondary puncture.
Geyser is single shot with an equal blend of fire and impact.
I admit, by the time you get to all five of them you're getting less bang for your buck but this is also part of why they're 1 slot spells.
-Raesh
"It was wise enough to know itself, and brave enough to BE itself, and wild enough to change itself while somehow staying altogether true." ― The Slow Regard of Silent Things
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Suggestion: Starting TM spells
04/06/2016 04:08 PM CDT
Makes me wonder if it would be amusing to give Warrior Mages a Hylomorphic Sorcery version of Acid Splash, but focused strictly on randomized elemental damage.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
WIZTURBO2
Re: Suggestion: Starting TM spells
04/06/2016 04:46 PM CDT
They definitely have some variation to them, they're not the same spell obviously, but I'm guessing virtually no Warrior Mages choose more than one of them. I might be wrong though.
It's just a shame that I don't get a chance to experiment with them. The opportunity cost of swapping out Fire Shards for Gar Zeng is too high, even though it'd be fun to try out Gar Zeng for a while. I suppose I could experiment with them through spell scrolls, but those aren't easy to come by for a newbie like me.
It's just a shame that I don't get a chance to experiment with them. The opportunity cost of swapping out Fire Shards for Gar Zeng is too high, even though it'd be fun to try out Gar Zeng for a while. I suppose I could experiment with them through spell scrolls, but those aren't easy to come by for a newbie like me.
WIZTURBO2
Re: Suggestion: Starting TM spells
04/06/2016 04:48 PM CDT
I guess getting them all for free would be power creep, but maybe if there was a discounted option? Elementalism 2.0 that isn't free, but comes with all 4 starter TM spells at maybe 1 or 2 slots?
2DUMBARSE
Re: Suggestion: Starting TM spells
04/06/2016 04:57 PM CDT
I get the idea that some of them feel redundant. Players don't perceive a significant enough difference between damage types against most creatures, so we wind up sticking with one spell that fits a role we like for one reason or another. Multi-shot (more accurate) and single shot (better vs heavy armor) are different enough that there's a good reason to have both types, but you can rationalize being more selective with Elementalism.
That said, I think that's fine in this case. You can spec into being the warrior mage you want to be and if you don't think you have a need for GZ and FS because you'll probably learn another spell you can use against fire resistant creatures or you plan to bypass them, for instance, then you're totally free to do that.
WM2.0 sucked for me because all spells did the same thing, but 2 or 3 were better at it than all the others. That's not the case anymore. There's a reason to have all starter TM spells or just some and that makes sense for this guild IMO. There's also more variety coming in the form of new TM types in the future, so there's cool stuff on the horizon.
That said, I think that's fine in this case. You can spec into being the warrior mage you want to be and if you don't think you have a need for GZ and FS because you'll probably learn another spell you can use against fire resistant creatures or you plan to bypass them, for instance, then you're totally free to do that.
WM2.0 sucked for me because all spells did the same thing, but 2 or 3 were better at it than all the others. That's not the case anymore. There's a reason to have all starter TM spells or just some and that makes sense for this guild IMO. There's also more variety coming in the form of new TM types in the future, so there's cool stuff on the horizon.
FAMEBRIGHT
Re: Suggestion: Starting TM spells
04/06/2016 05:33 PM CDT
Huh, I'd forgotten we have no core source of cold damage anymore.
I don't find them "obviously redundant" at all, but certainly picking all of them isn't necessary and I don't think ever intended -- except for that weird minute where Elemental Sensitivity was a thing and you had to rotate spell books. I'm not sure if I had access to all of them that I would remember to bother?
I hear the difficulty of experimentation, though. This is a pretty universal "problem" in DR though arguably spells are one of the easiest things to take back. Scrolls may become more common with enchanting? But hey, talk to other mages! This is a social game!
Re: Life mana Spell preps
You raise your hands in the air. You wave them like you just don't care. Somebody says, "Hey!" Somebody says, "Ho!" Somebody screams.
I don't find them "obviously redundant" at all, but certainly picking all of them isn't necessary and I don't think ever intended -- except for that weird minute where Elemental Sensitivity was a thing and you had to rotate spell books. I'm not sure if I had access to all of them that I would remember to bother?
I hear the difficulty of experimentation, though. This is a pretty universal "problem" in DR though arguably spells are one of the easiest things to take back. Scrolls may become more common with enchanting? But hey, talk to other mages! This is a social game!
Re: Life mana Spell preps
You raise your hands in the air. You wave them like you just don't care. Somebody says, "Hey!" Somebody says, "Ho!" Somebody screams.
DR-RAESH
Re: Suggestion: Starting TM spells
04/06/2016 05:42 PM CDT
>>Huh, I'd forgotten we have no core source of cold damage anymore.
Yeah... geyser is an oddball.
I almost didn't change Rimefang and Blumor Garaen's weight towards physical in 3.2 because of that but they make so much more sense like that based on their messaging (and BG in particular this helps differentiate the gesture options.)
Frost Scythe is a 'new' addition of cold damage joining the roster, though it's also slice/cold (weighted to slice) which also makes sense based on the messaging - but is another source of cold damage.
Flashfreeze remains on the docket for Warrior Mage development, but may not make the initial 3.2 push now that Dragon's Breath gives Warrior Mages access to Heavy TM. It will certainly be primary cold damage.
So I don't think it's a critical problem but it's something we're aware of. Oddly enough, Shockwave is actually the best source of cold damage for Warrior Mages post 3.2.
-Raesh
"It was wise enough to know itself, and brave enough to BE itself, and wild enough to change itself while somehow staying altogether true." ― The Slow Regard of Silent Things
Yeah... geyser is an oddball.
I almost didn't change Rimefang and Blumor Garaen's weight towards physical in 3.2 because of that but they make so much more sense like that based on their messaging (and BG in particular this helps differentiate the gesture options.)
Frost Scythe is a 'new' addition of cold damage joining the roster, though it's also slice/cold (weighted to slice) which also makes sense based on the messaging - but is another source of cold damage.
Flashfreeze remains on the docket for Warrior Mage development, but may not make the initial 3.2 push now that Dragon's Breath gives Warrior Mages access to Heavy TM. It will certainly be primary cold damage.
So I don't think it's a critical problem but it's something we're aware of. Oddly enough, Shockwave is actually the best source of cold damage for Warrior Mages post 3.2.
-Raesh
"It was wise enough to know itself, and brave enough to BE itself, and wild enough to change itself while somehow staying altogether true." ― The Slow Regard of Silent Things
WIZTURBO2
Re: Suggestion: Starting TM spells
04/06/2016 08:25 PM CDT
Here's a thought... What if your starting TM spell changed based on whatever you were aligned with? You couldn't use all five at once, but you could swap them out when choosing what you're going to fight (if you get that luxury)..
BADGOPHER
Re: Suggestion: Starting TM spells
04/06/2016 08:50 PM CDT
>Here's a thought... What if your starting TM spell changed based on whatever you were aligned with? You couldn't use all five at once, but you could swap them out when choosing what you're going to fight (if you get that luxury)..
This is sort of fuzzy logic. It's applied in a few places in the game already (spell X buffs Y highest skills), but the problem is the GMs say it effectively boosts every skill because you can manipulate it so easily.
So I'd guess this type of concept would be out too. It gives you access to a bunch of different damage templates and styles (multi shot, single shot, special effects, etc.) for a few seconds of RT.
Honestly if it's such a big deal, just grab the spells.
A WM is going to be dancing through all of the elements anyway. You're going to 'master' them because you will be casting a bunch of spells from every book at higher levels, because the spells you generally want to use are split pretty evenly between different books.
Some are under/over presented at various levels, but around 50+ you're probably going to be casting all the things.
And I think it's goofy to use intro TM as a water mark for mastery of the elements. Especially since there's no Aether TM spell :p
This is sort of fuzzy logic. It's applied in a few places in the game already (spell X buffs Y highest skills), but the problem is the GMs say it effectively boosts every skill because you can manipulate it so easily.
So I'd guess this type of concept would be out too. It gives you access to a bunch of different damage templates and styles (multi shot, single shot, special effects, etc.) for a few seconds of RT.
Honestly if it's such a big deal, just grab the spells.
A WM is going to be dancing through all of the elements anyway. You're going to 'master' them because you will be casting a bunch of spells from every book at higher levels, because the spells you generally want to use are split pretty evenly between different books.
Some are under/over presented at various levels, but around 50+ you're probably going to be casting all the things.
And I think it's goofy to use intro TM as a water mark for mastery of the elements. Especially since there's no Aether TM spell :p
HAMMERM1
Re: Suggestion: Starting TM spells
04/25/2016 03:52 AM CDT
Back in the day, my 2 favorite spells were frost scythe and aether lance.... The new scythe is only sort of the same... But I wish we had Aether Lance or maybe Ice lance as a form of "normal" TM damage for aether or Cold. Just reuse the aether lance messaging and tweak it a little bit for icy things. It was really nice...
DR-RAESH
Re: Suggestion: Starting TM spells
04/25/2016 04:16 AM CDT
>>The new scythe is only sort of the same...
Do you mean the version on test? Because it's almost exactly the same.
-Raesh
"It was wise enough to know itself, and brave enough to BE itself, and wild enough to change itself while somehow staying altogether true." ― The Slow Regard of Silent Things
Do you mean the version on test? Because it's almost exactly the same.
-Raesh
"It was wise enough to know itself, and brave enough to BE itself, and wild enough to change itself while somehow staying altogether true." ― The Slow Regard of Silent Things
2DUMBARSE
Re: Suggestion: Starting TM spells
04/26/2016 03:00 PM CDT
>Back in the day, my 2 favorite spells were frost scythe and aether lance....
Lash or lance? I loved lash because it was accurate like lance but severed stuff like it was nobody's business.
Lash or lance? I loved lash because it was accurate like lance but severed stuff like it was nobody's business.
HAMMERM1
Re: Suggestion: Starting TM spells
05/03/2016 05:22 AM CDT
Before wasn't it slice damage and strong against the unarmored? Now isnt it pierce damage heavy TM for armored?
Maybe I'm wrong, I take it back if I mis-perceived what's happening with FS.
HAMMERM1
Re: Suggestion: Starting TM spells
05/03/2016 05:22 AM CDT
Actually I loved both.... Lance and Lash. Lash for removing body parts, and lance for hunting above level.
