Strange Familiars 09/09/2013 12:55 AM CDT
From a lore perspective, is there anything preventing someone from carving out a human familiar? Are the limited forms available to players there for other reasons beyond "to make GMs' lifes easier?"



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Re: Strange Familiars 09/10/2013 07:47 AM CDT
I suspect that the more complex the talisman the more power required to control the elemental spirit you're forcing into it, from a lore perspective.

I know, biologically, a wolf or hear isn't much different than a human as far as complexity. But there has to be a lore related logistics reason for the limited talismans, otherwise why don't we have a massive slave force of bound elementals doing all the work, from a minor sized cleaning spirit to having huge hulking war golem ones?



I'm a badger, I be badgerin'
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Re: Strange Familiars 09/10/2013 08:41 AM CDT
I'm guessing the average war mages realizes the potential danger of a familiar in human clothes as well as the mockery of humanoid form? Similar to the shifting debate issues too probably? Check out my new Baron Gyfford familiar...

I don't think there's anything to prevent them from appearing humanoid as far as our lore goes. The bound shape is more for our convenience to control, and their's to have an actual physical manifestation. Also I think there might issues arising from what the average citizen sees, I think they'd appear more like mindless slaves than a hired servant and that might cause some issues.
The only issue discussed close to this is of summoning a familiar without a talisman - it makes a disgusting chimera thing, which you may have the chance to experience to experience something similar later in your studies.

Also it fits in more with the more traditional classical familiar spirit as a small animal pet(i know there were humanoid ones too) - usually when you think like witch's familiar, the image of a cat, rat, bat, spider, and snake come to mind.


>>I know, biologically, a wolf or hear isn't much different than a human as far as complexity.

Familiars don't have a biology, they are bascially an animal shaped trash bag filled with amorphous aether vomit.

>>why don't we have a massive slave force of bound elementals doing all the work

They do, visit Muspar'i. There should also be at least one 'doorman' elemental in every guild(maybe not the citadel?)
Also the dangers of unleashed/unbound elementals(elemental anything really) is extreme, so summoning a pure elemental would probably take lots of skill with proper teaching.

- see Stormwill tower, the Muspar'i Desert, research about the diamond-tipped staff, S'kra wind clan/Elf-Human War, and there's a few books on the subjects about how dangerous controlling or unleashing the elements or elementals can be in various guilds.

Like shifting, I think a lot of mages don't realize how dangerous their abilities can be, and there's a reason we have to limit our abilities compared to our potential.

I'm sure I could make that aether fissure a lot larger, that doesn't mean it's a good idea...

_________________________________
An agonizing pain fills you as you feel your tongue turn to powder in your mouth! Through a haze of uncertainty and loss, you realize that something you just said was very wrong.
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Re: Strange Familiars 09/10/2013 10:42 AM CDT
"Like shifting, I think a lot of mages don't realize how dangerous their abilities can be, and there's a reason we have to limit our abilities compared to our potential."

Lies.

"Men rarely (if ever) manage to dream up a god superior to themselves. Most gods have the manners and morals of a spoiled child." -Heinlein
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Re: Strange Familiars 09/10/2013 12:29 PM CDT
<<"Men rarely (if ever) manage to dream up a god superior to themselves. Most gods have the manners and morals of a spoiled child." -Heinlein

here, here
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Re: Strange Familiars 09/10/2013 03:01 PM CDT
The entire talisman process is poorly understood. That is to say: there's little to no published lore, just a series of unexplained ritual actions that don't make real sense.

The messaging indicates there's no conscious choice of the talisman's (and therefore, familiar's) shape. Rather, the mage blanks his mind and somehow senses the appropriate shape in the wood to carves out. You don't even know what you're carving until halfway through the process.
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Re: Strange Familiars 09/10/2013 03:49 PM CDT
yeah pretty much that..
aside from talisman's being wood prepared in some special way, that's all we really got.
Maybe it's limited by the mage's experience with animals, only pulling from forms and shapes that they're familiar with that would be appropriate for the size of the talisman?
Which might explain the odder ones like the firebird, celepeze hatchling, and dolphin familiars.

Even with the two familiar quests, it's still pretty vague what exactly happens - did that guy really need a piece of wood to carve talismans out of, or is he just screwing with me and there's a large pile of them right behind him?
The teachings of Oxfre Pepel are also pretty much completely useless as far adding anything coherent to the lore too.

-but we do have special knives made just for talisman carving that kind of add a little, not really (they're normal carving knives)

The black hilt of this silver carving knife is lavishly decorated with nebulous images of familiars. Made for contemplation by the Warrior Mage before carving the talisman, no one image is completely distinct, each seeming to waver in and out of focus the longer one gazes at the hilt.

The faint silvery images of various familiars seem to fade in and out of existence in a nebulous cloud over the handle, offering the Warrior Mage an opportunity for contemplation and focus before taking on the task of carving the talisman

Deceptively simple, this undecorated carving knife is suited for the Warrior Mage who wishes no distractions during the delicate task of carving the talisman.

_________________________________
An agonizing pain fills you as you feel your tongue turn to powder in your mouth! Through a haze of uncertainty and loss, you realize that something you just said was very wrong.
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Re: Strange Familiars 09/10/2013 04:22 PM CDT
>>Maybe it's limited by the mage's experience with animals, only pulling from forms and shapes that they're familiar with that would be appropriate for the size of the talisman?

My understanding is that the familiar basically "agrees" to be summoned in the form that the talisman represents.

For whatever reason, a "human" form just comes off as insulting to them.

http://elanthipedia.org/wiki/Rellecke



Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
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Re: Strange Familiars 09/10/2013 05:18 PM CDT
That sign is one of the things I'm proud of contributing to.

-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas
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Re: Strange Familiars 09/10/2013 05:19 PM CDT
actually Rellecke's sign is probably our best piece of familiar lore...
Thanks!

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An agonizing pain fills you as you feel your tongue turn to powder in your mouth! Through a haze of uncertainty and loss, you realize that something you just said was very wrong.
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Re: Strange Familiars 09/10/2013 05:48 PM CDT
Heh, never seen that sign, nice work

Rehlyn

A Maelshyvean shadow beast slows long enough to deeply inhale some of the swirling shadows surrounding it. After a moment, it sighs with great releif and blackness oozes from its ears and nostrils.
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Re: Strange Familiars 09/10/2013 07:23 PM CDT
Huh, well that answers some of my questions.



Weapons for Sale:
http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/User:Caraamon#Wares
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
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Re: Strange Familiars 09/10/2013 08:54 PM CDT
Oh thanks for that link!
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