What are the requirements for pattern hues?
I'm not going to start filling spell slots for it, but I'm bugging the guildmaster incessantly
That plan worked better in my head.
REDETH
GAND-MAD
Re: Reqs
02/28/2008 02:42 PM CST
As a third tier cantrip, the requirements should be to know at least one other aether cantrip, have a PM skill of 120, and be at least 20th circle. I'm not 100% positive of this, but believe it will apply to all third tier cantrips (of which flashpoint for the fire book is the only other one).
If you meet the other reqs, make sure you've learned the other aether cantrips. Second tier aether cantrip is aethereal image and requires 10th circle, knowledge of the aether spheres cantrip, and the Ethereal Shield spell. As far as I know, you shouldn't technically need to have learned this to get the third tier cantrip. This means that as long as you meet the circle and skill req, and have the aether spheres cantrip memorized (requires any two aether spells memorized) you should be able to get pattern hues.
-Gandoloth
If you meet the other reqs, make sure you've learned the other aether cantrips. Second tier aether cantrip is aethereal image and requires 10th circle, knowledge of the aether spheres cantrip, and the Ethereal Shield spell. As far as I know, you shouldn't technically need to have learned this to get the third tier cantrip. This means that as long as you meet the circle and skill req, and have the aether spheres cantrip memorized (requires any two aether spells memorized) you should be able to get pattern hues.
-Gandoloth
DANFORDS2
Re: Reqs
02/28/2008 04:39 PM CST
>third tier cantrips (of which flashpoint for the fire book is the only other one).
Flashpoint is only second tier.
>have a PM skill of 120, and be at least 20th circle.
I wasn't aware of this, but it's highly likely I already met both requirements before the third tier cantrips came out. I thought that pattern hues required the other two aether cantrips, so you need Aethereal Image as well. At least, at the point where you qualify for Pattern Hues there's no reason not to get Aethereal Image as well.
Elemancer Opieus, Journeyman Warrior Mage of Elanthia
>Aren't I pretty, now fall down on my ice, fool! ~ Axillus
Flashpoint is only second tier.
>have a PM skill of 120, and be at least 20th circle.
I wasn't aware of this, but it's highly likely I already met both requirements before the third tier cantrips came out. I thought that pattern hues required the other two aether cantrips, so you need Aethereal Image as well. At least, at the point where you qualify for Pattern Hues there's no reason not to get Aethereal Image as well.
Elemancer Opieus, Journeyman Warrior Mage of Elanthia
>Aren't I pretty, now fall down on my ice, fool! ~ Axillus
DR-WYTHOR
Re: Reqs
02/28/2008 05:49 PM CST
>>Flashpoint is only second tier.
There's been a bit of confusion on the tech side of things about that too. It was originally intended to be 2nd tier, but at the last minute I decided that it was powerful enough to warrant placement as a 3rd tier cantrip. Unfortunately I forgot to update its behind-the-scenes storage position (contributing to my personal confusion). Releasing it with the 2nd tier cantrips (and Fire's lack of 2nd tier cantrip) was also misleading.
Its requirements are that of a 3rd tier cantrip. When the AP and cantrip updates are rolled in, it will assume its correct position as a 3rd tier cantrip. I'm working on developing a 2nd tier Fire cantrip to fill in the hole.
- GM Wythor
What goes up
is futile --
unless it goes out
There's been a bit of confusion on the tech side of things about that too. It was originally intended to be 2nd tier, but at the last minute I decided that it was powerful enough to warrant placement as a 3rd tier cantrip. Unfortunately I forgot to update its behind-the-scenes storage position (contributing to my personal confusion). Releasing it with the 2nd tier cantrips (and Fire's lack of 2nd tier cantrip) was also misleading.
Its requirements are that of a 3rd tier cantrip. When the AP and cantrip updates are rolled in, it will assume its correct position as a 3rd tier cantrip. I'm working on developing a 2nd tier Fire cantrip to fill in the hole.
- GM Wythor
What goes up
is futile --
unless it goes out
GAND-MAD
Re: Reqs
02/28/2008 06:41 PM CST
>>I thought that pattern hues required the other two aether cantrips
I remember there being some confusion with this way back as well, although I don't remember exactly what the final answer was. I had thought that tiers with respect to cantrips weren't quite so rigid as they are when talking about spells. The requirements get a bit tougher with each tier of cantrip, but you don't necessarily need every cantrip from that tier and lower.
Wythor's post seems to suggest this, although its difficult to tell if when flashpoint's mechanics are updated whether it will then require some 2nd tier fire cantrip or not. Perhaps Wythor could clear this up.
>>there's no reason not to get Aethereal Image as well.
You're correct with respect to the Aether book: by the time you can get pattern hues you're forced to at least have ES, which then ends in you being eligible for both aether spheres (having ES and one other aether spell) and aethereal image (at which point you'll already have ES and aether spheres).
However, if we look at a book thats not quite so linear, someone may have potentially learned the spells Sure Footing, Earth Sense, and tremor without getting fist of stone. This would mean that they could easily get the first tier earth cantrip (Stone Seat; requirement of at least 2 earth spells known), and the third tier earth cantrip for when that comes out (with its skill/stat requirements and using Stone Seat as the prior cantrip requirement) without ever getting the second tier cantrip.
This could easily happen with the water book once a third tier cantrip comes out there, where the spell required (frost scythe) does not actually lead anywhere.
I guess its not too big a deal, although it may allow me to get the third tier earth and water cantrips down the road without bothering with FOS or FRS yet. Could you verify the actual requirements, Wythor? Also, are second tier cantrips always based off first tier spells, or could we potentially see one in the fire book requiring something like MOF that also doesn't lead anywhere? Finally, is there any intention to eventually go to a fourth tier cantrip and roughly what type of effects/requirements might we expect there?
-Gandoloth
I remember there being some confusion with this way back as well, although I don't remember exactly what the final answer was. I had thought that tiers with respect to cantrips weren't quite so rigid as they are when talking about spells. The requirements get a bit tougher with each tier of cantrip, but you don't necessarily need every cantrip from that tier and lower.
Wythor's post seems to suggest this, although its difficult to tell if when flashpoint's mechanics are updated whether it will then require some 2nd tier fire cantrip or not. Perhaps Wythor could clear this up.
>>there's no reason not to get Aethereal Image as well.
You're correct with respect to the Aether book: by the time you can get pattern hues you're forced to at least have ES, which then ends in you being eligible for both aether spheres (having ES and one other aether spell) and aethereal image (at which point you'll already have ES and aether spheres).
However, if we look at a book thats not quite so linear, someone may have potentially learned the spells Sure Footing, Earth Sense, and tremor without getting fist of stone. This would mean that they could easily get the first tier earth cantrip (Stone Seat; requirement of at least 2 earth spells known), and the third tier earth cantrip for when that comes out (with its skill/stat requirements and using Stone Seat as the prior cantrip requirement) without ever getting the second tier cantrip.
This could easily happen with the water book once a third tier cantrip comes out there, where the spell required (frost scythe) does not actually lead anywhere.
I guess its not too big a deal, although it may allow me to get the third tier earth and water cantrips down the road without bothering with FOS or FRS yet. Could you verify the actual requirements, Wythor? Also, are second tier cantrips always based off first tier spells, or could we potentially see one in the fire book requiring something like MOF that also doesn't lead anywhere? Finally, is there any intention to eventually go to a fourth tier cantrip and roughly what type of effects/requirements might we expect there?
-Gandoloth
DR-WYTHOR
Re: Reqs
02/28/2008 11:12 PM CST
>>Wythor's post seems to suggest this, although its difficult to tell if when flashpoint's mechanics are updated whether it will then require some 2nd tier fire cantrip or not. Perhaps Wythor could clear this up.
The requirements for Flashpoint won't change, since it already has the requirements of a 3rd tier cantrip.
>>Could you verify the actual requirements, Wythor?
1st tier cantrips require knowledge of two spells of the appropriate spellbook.
2nd tier cantrips require the caster to be at least 10th circle, know a specific 1st tier cantrip, and know a specific spell from the appropriate spellbook (usually related to the cantrip's effect in some way).
3rd tier cantrips require the knowledge of one other cantrip of the appropriate element, and the caster must be at least 20th circle and have at least 120 ranks of Primary Magic skill.
Note that these are the requirements of current cantrips; new ones may have slightly different requirements.
>>Also, are second tier cantrips always based off first tier spells, or could we potentially see one in the fire book requiring something like MOF that also doesn't lead anywhere?
The cantrips that require spell knowledge fall into two categories. The first category is for cantrips that require the mage to have a level of general competency in the element, measured by number of spells known. The second category contains cantrips that require the knowledge of a specific spell related to its function.
>>Finally, is there any intention to eventually go to a fourth tier cantrip and roughly what type of effects/requirements might we expect there?
Originally we had planned up to 6 tiers of cantrips, but once we reached the 3rd tier level it was obvious that setting up cantrips more powerful than those would be difficult. The new cantrip system limits cantrips to no more than 3rd tier, but there is support for multi-element cantrips and cantrips that are limited to specific cabals or organizations.
- GM Wythor
What goes up
is futile --
unless it goes out
The requirements for Flashpoint won't change, since it already has the requirements of a 3rd tier cantrip.
>>Could you verify the actual requirements, Wythor?
1st tier cantrips require knowledge of two spells of the appropriate spellbook.
2nd tier cantrips require the caster to be at least 10th circle, know a specific 1st tier cantrip, and know a specific spell from the appropriate spellbook (usually related to the cantrip's effect in some way).
3rd tier cantrips require the knowledge of one other cantrip of the appropriate element, and the caster must be at least 20th circle and have at least 120 ranks of Primary Magic skill.
Note that these are the requirements of current cantrips; new ones may have slightly different requirements.
>>Also, are second tier cantrips always based off first tier spells, or could we potentially see one in the fire book requiring something like MOF that also doesn't lead anywhere?
The cantrips that require spell knowledge fall into two categories. The first category is for cantrips that require the mage to have a level of general competency in the element, measured by number of spells known. The second category contains cantrips that require the knowledge of a specific spell related to its function.
>>Finally, is there any intention to eventually go to a fourth tier cantrip and roughly what type of effects/requirements might we expect there?
Originally we had planned up to 6 tiers of cantrips, but once we reached the 3rd tier level it was obvious that setting up cantrips more powerful than those would be difficult. The new cantrip system limits cantrips to no more than 3rd tier, but there is support for multi-element cantrips and cantrips that are limited to specific cabals or organizations.
- GM Wythor
What goes up
is futile --
unless it goes out
REDETH
Re: Reqs
02/29/2008 08:33 AM CST
Thanks! I still don't have a second spell in my aether book yet, prolly change next spell slot though. That clears up alot
That plan worked better in my head.
That plan worked better in my head.
GAND-MAD
