I recently played a trader after nearly a decade of not playing a trader. I'm surprised that there are still no more places to trade commodities than the 3 places in Zoluren. Now some say they don't make much doing commodities, but commodities was how I made the most coin when I was playing a trader. I keep of list of when a particular commodity is at it's lowest and when it is at it's highest. Buy doing so, I know when to buy a sell a commodity and thus make a bunch of coin. I also, watch when where the commodities are selling quickly and when a commodity is in or out of season, but I get annoyed when I always have to be Zoluren to trade commodities.
If you must break the law, do it to seize power: in all other cases observe it. Julius Caesar
Read more at: http://www.brainyquote.com/search_results.html?q=Julius+Ceasar&pg=1
GODKING
GABRIEL4
Re: Will commodities ever evolve?
03/30/2016 05:01 PM CDT
<<Now some say they don't make much doing commodities, but commodities was how I made the most coin when I was playing a trader.
Just pointing out that while commodity trading is very profitable at lower circles using strategies like yours, it doesn't scale very well with higher circle because the trading pits have limits on how much can be purchased or sold before they stop buying or selling. You can hold more commodities in stock at one time as your circle and charisma increase, but there's a significant limit on how well you can move that stock that is imposed by how fast the boards shift and the commodity price ranges that remain constant across circles and skill. This makes it good for a quick burst of several plat income to start every trade run, which is especially nice relatively speaking at low circle, but that income quickly dries up until stock levels readjust and it never gets much larger in scale as you become more skilled. In the long run standard contract trading results in far more money accumulated since there's no comparable limiting factors.
Expanding the system to other areas would alleviate this a bit, but only a bit. There'd still be that limit in place and having more places to buy and sell would only increase the limit to a higher amount. Not to say that it's a bad idea, just saying that it's not going to be a viable primary source of income in the long term unless they change how the system itself works.
Just pointing out that while commodity trading is very profitable at lower circles using strategies like yours, it doesn't scale very well with higher circle because the trading pits have limits on how much can be purchased or sold before they stop buying or selling. You can hold more commodities in stock at one time as your circle and charisma increase, but there's a significant limit on how well you can move that stock that is imposed by how fast the boards shift and the commodity price ranges that remain constant across circles and skill. This makes it good for a quick burst of several plat income to start every trade run, which is especially nice relatively speaking at low circle, but that income quickly dries up until stock levels readjust and it never gets much larger in scale as you become more skilled. In the long run standard contract trading results in far more money accumulated since there's no comparable limiting factors.
Expanding the system to other areas would alleviate this a bit, but only a bit. There'd still be that limit in place and having more places to buy and sell would only increase the limit to a higher amount. Not to say that it's a bad idea, just saying that it's not going to be a viable primary source of income in the long term unless they change how the system itself works.
PRIMEQ
Re: Will commodities ever evolve?
03/30/2016 05:39 PM CDT
GM Socharis had what looked like an amazing plan for commodities for Traders, even up to crafting and selling items (e.g. weapons) to demanding locations, having better/worse relations to various locations, etc. Unfortunately, he passed away, and I don't know if anyone else has plans to ever take up the torch.
What IS planned for Traders is a full integration into the Magic system.
- Navesi
What IS planned for Traders is a full integration into the Magic system.
- Navesi
GODKING
Re: Will commodities ever evolve?
03/30/2016 06:46 PM CDT
>>What IS planned for Traders is a full integration into the Magic system.<<
To me this seems counter-intuitive to the role playing of a trader. Priority, in my opinion, should be working on trade such as commodities and inter-province trading with the islands. Something that should have been done a long, long time ago.
If you must break the law, do it to seize power: in all other cases observe it. Julius Caesar
Read more at: http://www.brainyquote.com/search_results.html?q=Julius+Ceasar&pg=1
To me this seems counter-intuitive to the role playing of a trader. Priority, in my opinion, should be working on trade such as commodities and inter-province trading with the islands. Something that should have been done a long, long time ago.
If you must break the law, do it to seize power: in all other cases observe it. Julius Caesar
Read more at: http://www.brainyquote.com/search_results.html?q=Julius+Ceasar&pg=1
BADGOPHER
Re: Will commodities ever evolve?
03/30/2016 07:00 PM CDT
>To me this seems counter-intuitive to the role playing of a trader. Priority, in my opinion, should be working on trade such as commodities and inter-province trading with the islands. Something that should have been done a long, long time ago.
Traders need to become 'real boys' before you can do that. Part of it is integrating them into normal combat. There's a reason 'trader style hunting' has a negative connotation.
But beyond that, the GMs who are active right now do a ton of magic work, and the magic system as a whole was created to allow them to work on things easily.
If they wanted to fix trading as you suggest, they'd probably have to learn the entire system, rewrite it from scratch, and then create the hooks to the islands with yet-more new custom mechanics. All of which benefits exactly 1 guild. DR has a long history of things like that, and they always end poorly.
Traders need to become 'real boys' before you can do that. Part of it is integrating them into normal combat. There's a reason 'trader style hunting' has a negative connotation.
But beyond that, the GMs who are active right now do a ton of magic work, and the magic system as a whole was created to allow them to work on things easily.
If they wanted to fix trading as you suggest, they'd probably have to learn the entire system, rewrite it from scratch, and then create the hooks to the islands with yet-more new custom mechanics. All of which benefits exactly 1 guild. DR has a long history of things like that, and they always end poorly.
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Will commodities ever evolve?
03/30/2016 07:03 PM CDT
My understanding is one of the long term dreams for commodities is that the materials players harvest can be sold to (and purchased from) the market.
How Traders in particular are involved in this process, I'm not sure, since it was more mentioned as "well yeah look we have real commodities now we should make the system work with those someday"
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
How Traders in particular are involved in this process, I'm not sure, since it was more mentioned as "well yeah look we have real commodities now we should make the system work with those someday"
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
JHALIASCLERIC
Re: Will commodities ever evolve?
05/06/2016 02:49 PM CDT
I know this is a bit of a necro, but I'd love if Traders could occupy an actual niche in a player run economy. As it is, the games best traders are simply 'players who care about crafting', not necessarily 'players who hit JOIN twice in the Trader guild'.
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Will commodities ever evolve?
05/06/2016 03:40 PM CDT
>>I know this is a bit of a necro, but I'd love if Traders could occupy an actual niche in a player run economy. As it is, the games best traders are simply 'players who care about crafting', not necessarily 'players who hit JOIN twice in the Trader guild'.
My hope is that someday the commodities market will be more responsive and use actual materials.
I'd love to be able to buy a 200 volume 99 quality bronze off the commodity market instead of buying the 5 volume 50ish quality bronze at the shop, for example.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
My hope is that someday the commodities market will be more responsive and use actual materials.
I'd love to be able to buy a 200 volume 99 quality bronze off the commodity market instead of buying the 5 volume 50ish quality bronze at the shop, for example.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
DERIUM
Re: Will commodities ever evolve?
05/06/2016 04:46 PM CDT
> I'd love to be able to buy a 200 volume 99 quality bronze off the commodity market instead of buying the 5 volume 50ish quality bronze at the shop, for example.
So you're saying my trader can now buy bronze from the smithy to sell as a commodity?
GABRIEL4
Re: Will commodities ever evolve?
05/06/2016 05:02 PM CDT
<<So you're saying my trader can now buy bronze from the smithy to sell as a commodity?
No. You're reading too much into his statement. He wants to be able to obtain crafting materials through an upgraded commodities market instead of a crafting shop.
No. You're reading too much into his statement. He wants to be able to obtain crafting materials through an upgraded commodities market instead of a crafting shop.
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Will commodities ever evolve?
05/06/2016 05:14 PM CDT
>>So you're saying my trader can now buy bronze from the smithy to sell as a commodity?
I said I'd love to see Traders be able to sell materials to the commodity market which then all players could buy from. Could a Trader, theoretically, buy a bunch of junk bronze, refine it, then sell as larger ingots? I suppose, but if it's a commodity market working like a commodity market they could only do it so much until the market is oversaturated and it is no longer worth it.
>>No. You're reading too much into his statement. He wants to be able to obtain crafting materials through an upgraded commodities market instead of a crafting shop.
Pretty much. I'm cool with why societies can't sell better stuff (to give a reason for players to harvest themselves), but I'd love to see something that helps facilitate the sales of those materials on a larger scale than a trader shop. Having it not explicitly tied to Trader shops and instead the commodity market means that more Traders could participate with a lower barrier of entry, as well. Plus, we could argue that Moon Mage WooMagic has all commodity markets pull from the same pool, so people who are out in Qi don't necessarily have to go to Crossing to get their 10 volume of glaes or whatever.
I'd imagine payouts would depend on how much players are willing to buy into the "buy" portion of the system, to prevent it from just being a dumping ground for expensive metals, which would probably be the trickiest non-mechanics part of the deal.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
I said I'd love to see Traders be able to sell materials to the commodity market which then all players could buy from. Could a Trader, theoretically, buy a bunch of junk bronze, refine it, then sell as larger ingots? I suppose, but if it's a commodity market working like a commodity market they could only do it so much until the market is oversaturated and it is no longer worth it.
>>No. You're reading too much into his statement. He wants to be able to obtain crafting materials through an upgraded commodities market instead of a crafting shop.
Pretty much. I'm cool with why societies can't sell better stuff (to give a reason for players to harvest themselves), but I'd love to see something that helps facilitate the sales of those materials on a larger scale than a trader shop. Having it not explicitly tied to Trader shops and instead the commodity market means that more Traders could participate with a lower barrier of entry, as well. Plus, we could argue that Moon Mage WooMagic has all commodity markets pull from the same pool, so people who are out in Qi don't necessarily have to go to Crossing to get their 10 volume of glaes or whatever.
I'd imagine payouts would depend on how much players are willing to buy into the "buy" portion of the system, to prevent it from just being a dumping ground for expensive metals, which would probably be the trickiest non-mechanics part of the deal.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
PRIMEQ
Re: Will commodities ever evolve?
05/06/2016 06:03 PM CDT
>>I'd love to see Traders be able to sell materials to the commodity market which then all players could buy from.
Socharis had a post about it a few years ago that made me really want to play a Trader:
https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Post:Commodities/Contracts_Rewrite_-_08/17/2011_-_03:09
Those were some really cool plans. I feel like at some point he also expanded into the idea of earning reputation in certain areas and maybe supplying players, but I couldn't find anything else. Either way it would be awesome.
- Navesi
Socharis had a post about it a few years ago that made me really want to play a Trader:
https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Post:Commodities/Contracts_Rewrite_-_08/17/2011_-_03:09
Those were some really cool plans. I feel like at some point he also expanded into the idea of earning reputation in certain areas and maybe supplying players, but I couldn't find anything else. Either way it would be awesome.
- Navesi
