This is a honest post and I don't mean to offend anyone. It's not really a suggestion as I don't -suggest- the GM's actually do it but the idea was interesting to mentally wrestle with and seemed to have some merit.
Currently, near everything Traderly is tied to the Trading skill or circle. Once trader magic comes out that won't be as much the case. If this were to happen, now would be the time. Hence the post.
Benefits:
Huge boost to the desirability of the Lore skillset.
Less coding overhead for GM's once it's all done (one less guild to develop for).
Massive increase in "content" for all players. All characters will be able to do more stuff.
Drawbacks:
Coding nightmare, I can only imagine.
Possible flood of empaths which current empaths wouldn't appreciate.
Loss of a guild.
How I see this happening:
First: amazing IG event. Then...
All traders allowed to switch guilds while respecting their new guild's skillsets and keeping their Trading skill. I think the GM's did an amazing job with this kind of thing in the upgrade from 2.0 to 3.0.
Keep everything traderly but tie it only to the Trading skill. Shops, caravans, tables, hirelings, everything. Well... maybe not speculate coin.
Allow anyone to learn the Trading skill but charge them heavily for the privilege of it. Thinking five thousand platinum. This would keep the Trading skill rare.
RICHNESS
ABSOLON
Re: disband the Trader's Guild
08/03/2015 08:33 PM CDT
This is a horrible suggestion.
<<Thinking five thousand platinum. This would keep the Trading skill rare.
Although thanks for the chuckle. ;)
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<<Thinking five thousand platinum. This would keep the Trading skill rare.
Although thanks for the chuckle. ;)
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FLINT-TIPPED
Re: disband the Trader's Guild
08/03/2015 08:47 PM CDT
I missed the part where you explained how the idea had merit.
How does a coding nightmare result in less coding?
I feel like this is an April Fools post.
I'm personally really looking forward to seeing what Trader magic looks like and especially how starlight auras work. I also don't want to buy my groceries from dirty barbarians with 1k trading ranks.
Vote:
http://www.topmudsites.com/vote-DragonRealms.html
How does a coding nightmare result in less coding?
I feel like this is an April Fools post.
I'm personally really looking forward to seeing what Trader magic looks like and especially how starlight auras work. I also don't want to buy my groceries from dirty barbarians with 1k trading ranks.
Vote:
http://www.topmudsites.com/vote-DragonRealms.html
HEXEDBYTHENET
Re: disband the Trader's Guild
08/03/2015 09:15 PM CDT
No.
I think all the guilds, even the ones needing further development currently, have their place in this game. In fact, I could probably see one or two more added, but that's a different discussion altogether. Still, I see no reason at all why we would need to have one less guild or any sort of benefit that might arise from it. Trader abilities are awesome, Trader magic would make them even better but for right now they're pretty damn good if you ask me. I currently see no realistic or thematic reason why it wold be reasonable to give them to everyone else and remove the guild from the game.
You say to Tathalus, "Have you ever tried to clean a troll den? The smell sticks around for years to come."
Liev says, "That is my cue to leave."
I think all the guilds, even the ones needing further development currently, have their place in this game. In fact, I could probably see one or two more added, but that's a different discussion altogether. Still, I see no reason at all why we would need to have one less guild or any sort of benefit that might arise from it. Trader abilities are awesome, Trader magic would make them even better but for right now they're pretty damn good if you ask me. I currently see no realistic or thematic reason why it wold be reasonable to give them to everyone else and remove the guild from the game.
You say to Tathalus, "Have you ever tried to clean a troll den? The smell sticks around for years to come."
Liev says, "That is my cue to leave."
DR-RAESH
Re: disband the Trader's Guild
08/03/2015 11:15 PM CDT
>>How does a coding nightmare result in less coding?
-Raesh
"The trouble with atheism, is that it offers a limited range of curses.” - Two Serpents Rise
-Raesh
"The trouble with atheism, is that it offers a limited range of curses.” - Two Serpents Rise
TEVESHSZAT
Re: disband the Trader's Guild
08/04/2015 12:31 PM CDT
>>Currently, near everything Traderly is tied to the Trading skill or circle. Once trader magic comes out that won't be as much the case.
Isn't this how pretty much all guilds work these days? IMO most "guild" special sauce stuff is run through the magic system. If I had to guess, it's because it's a lot easier for GM X to wake up and go "well,I want to make a cool ranger thing but I don't understand tracking, how to use align, etc, so let's make this a spell" or "I make Cleric stuff, but this would be neat for Paladins. No clue how glyphs work, so let's make that a spell instead."
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
Isn't this how pretty much all guilds work these days? IMO most "guild" special sauce stuff is run through the magic system. If I had to guess, it's because it's a lot easier for GM X to wake up and go "well,I want to make a cool ranger thing but I don't understand tracking, how to use align, etc, so let's make this a spell" or "I make Cleric stuff, but this would be neat for Paladins. No clue how glyphs work, so let's make that a spell instead."
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
DR-ARMIFER
Re: disband the Trader's Guild
08/04/2015 12:53 PM CDT
>>Isn't this how pretty much all guilds work these days? IMO most "guild" special sauce stuff is run through the magic system. If I had to guess, it's because it's a lot easier for GM X to wake up and go "well,I want to make a cool ranger thing but I don't understand tracking, how to use align, etc, so let's make this a spell" or "I make Cleric stuff, but this would be neat for Paladins. No clue how glyphs work, so let's make that a spell instead."
Less laziness, more that magic and allied systems come equipped with costs, checks and balances that independent systems don't have. It is intentional that the core supernatural systems for every guild are slot-based, for example.
And this affects some guilds more than others. Empaths and Necromancers are pretty much a case study in the extremes of spell dependence.
-Armifer
"Perinthia's astronomers are faced with a difficult choice. Either they must admit that all their calculations were wrong ... or else they must reveal that the order of the gods is reflected exactly in the city of monsters." - Italo Calvino
Less laziness, more that magic and allied systems come equipped with costs, checks and balances that independent systems don't have. It is intentional that the core supernatural systems for every guild are slot-based, for example.
And this affects some guilds more than others. Empaths and Necromancers are pretty much a case study in the extremes of spell dependence.
-Armifer
"Perinthia's astronomers are faced with a difficult choice. Either they must admit that all their calculations were wrong ... or else they must reveal that the order of the gods is reflected exactly in the city of monsters." - Italo Calvino
BRYCOLE83
Re: disband the Trader's Guild
08/04/2015 02:05 PM CDT
>> And this affects some guilds more than others. Empaths and Necromancers are pretty much a case study in the extremes of spell dependence
They also have quite a fair share on non-spell mechanics!
JARAGONA
Re: disband the Trader's Guild
08/04/2015 03:10 PM CDT
Traders already are the most magical guild ever.
"Brace yourselves, Squanto is going to bleh blah fart fart bleh.." -the player of the character formerly known as Pureblade
"Brace yourselves, Squanto is going to bleh blah fart fart bleh.." -the player of the character formerly known as Pureblade
ABSOLON
Re: disband the Trader's Guild
08/04/2015 04:53 PM CDT
<<Isn't this how pretty much all guilds work these days?
Traders take it to the extreme. Almost everything they do is tied to trading, circle, and/or charisma. That is so much more limited than the magic system.
<<If I had to guess, it's because it's a lot easier for GM X to wake up and go "well,I want to make a cool ranger thing but I don't understand tracking, how to use align, etc, so let's make this a spell" or "I make Cleric stuff, but this would be neat for Paladins. No clue how glyphs work, so let's make that a spell instead."
Part of the reason why the magic reason is used for many new abilities is also that the magic system is both robust and non-specific, which makes it ideal for developing almost any ability you can think of because the support is there. An ability being tied to a guild skill system is often more thematically correct than a spell, but those systems don't support as many options as the magic system does without a significant rewrite because they're a lot narrower in scope and depth in their current states.
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Traders take it to the extreme. Almost everything they do is tied to trading, circle, and/or charisma. That is so much more limited than the magic system.
<<If I had to guess, it's because it's a lot easier for GM X to wake up and go "well,I want to make a cool ranger thing but I don't understand tracking, how to use align, etc, so let's make this a spell" or "I make Cleric stuff, but this would be neat for Paladins. No clue how glyphs work, so let's make that a spell instead."
Part of the reason why the magic reason is used for many new abilities is also that the magic system is both robust and non-specific, which makes it ideal for developing almost any ability you can think of because the support is there. An ability being tied to a guild skill system is often more thematically correct than a spell, but those systems don't support as many options as the magic system does without a significant rewrite because they're a lot narrower in scope and depth in their current states.
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TEVESHSZAT
Re: disband the Trader's Guild
08/04/2015 10:21 PM CDT
>>Less laziness
Didn't mean to imply that it was a matter of laziness. More that the magic system got a rather big overhaul lately and I assume more GMs "get" the magic system than whatever each guild's unique guild-thing systems tend to do. Like you said, the magic system has a fleshed out slot system, checks and balances, etc. I'd actually be surprised if a glyph that boosted stamina came out instead of a spell doing that, or if a craft-skill boosting ability came out for Traders that it would be a speculate and not a spell, etc.
>>Traders take it to the extreme. Almost everything they do is tied to trading, circle, and/or charisma. That is so much more limited than the magic system.
Yeah, but I was thinking of how most guilds work in relation to how Trader guilds would work in the future once magic comes out for them. The "Traders don't have much special sauce" thing is probably going to go away once it's magical "stuff" comes into play.
>>Part of the reason why the magic reason is used for many new abilities is also that the magic system is both robust and non-specific, which makes it ideal for developing almost any ability you can think of because the support is there. An ability being tied to a guild skill system is often more thematically correct than a spell, but those systems don't support as many options as the magic system does without a significant rewrite because they're a lot narrower in scope and depth in their current states.
Pretty much what I was saying, yeah. Magic got an amazing overhaul with 3.0 which included tools that allow GMs easier access to making spells.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
Didn't mean to imply that it was a matter of laziness. More that the magic system got a rather big overhaul lately and I assume more GMs "get" the magic system than whatever each guild's unique guild-thing systems tend to do. Like you said, the magic system has a fleshed out slot system, checks and balances, etc. I'd actually be surprised if a glyph that boosted stamina came out instead of a spell doing that, or if a craft-skill boosting ability came out for Traders that it would be a speculate and not a spell, etc.
>>Traders take it to the extreme. Almost everything they do is tied to trading, circle, and/or charisma. That is so much more limited than the magic system.
Yeah, but I was thinking of how most guilds work in relation to how Trader guilds would work in the future once magic comes out for them. The "Traders don't have much special sauce" thing is probably going to go away once it's magical "stuff" comes into play.
>>Part of the reason why the magic reason is used for many new abilities is also that the magic system is both robust and non-specific, which makes it ideal for developing almost any ability you can think of because the support is there. An ability being tied to a guild skill system is often more thematically correct than a spell, but those systems don't support as many options as the magic system does without a significant rewrite because they're a lot narrower in scope and depth in their current states.
Pretty much what I was saying, yeah. Magic got an amazing overhaul with 3.0 which included tools that allow GMs easier access to making spells.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
ABSOLON
Re: disband the Trader's Guild
08/04/2015 11:21 PM CDT
<<Pretty much what I was saying, yeah.
No, you were saying GMs don't code non-magic abilities because they have a larger learning curve for them compared to magic. I was saying that they code magic abilities because the magic system is more robust and capable. Different things. Both are likely true.
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No, you were saying GMs don't code non-magic abilities because they have a larger learning curve for them compared to magic. I was saying that they code magic abilities because the magic system is more robust and capable. Different things. Both are likely true.
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TEVESHSZAT
Re: disband the Trader's Guild
08/05/2015 07:43 AM CDT
>>No, you were saying GMs don't code non-magic abilities because they have a larger learning curve for them compared to magic. I was saying that they code magic abilities because the magic system is more robust and capable. Different things. Both are likely true.
eh, meant both so okay.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
eh, meant both so okay.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
VOLCANUE
Re: disband the Trader's Guild
09/09/2015 11:10 AM CDT
> It's not really a suggestion as I don't -suggest- the GM's actually do it but the idea was interesting to mentally wrestle with and seemed to have some merit.
I... actually.. like this idea, and I love the trader's guild. Trading becomes another open lore skill. I would argue that anything that required trader levels is normalized to require charisma. Anyone can rent caravans and yaks. Anyone can open up a table, pending they have the right trading levels. Same for shops and gem pouches. Any existing trader magic is migrated to various guilds as new spells.
As a gift to traders, they get to keep all of their skills and are just turned into commoners. They can join a new guild and retain their current skill levels. They can convert trading to their new guild skill via the convert verb.
> Loss of a guild.
That's not a downside. We have a few guilds that don't receive a lot of attention. I can guess one primary reason is the ROI. Few players playing the guild = less motivation to develop for it.
> Thinking five thousand platinum. This would keep the Trading skill rare.
I don't think this is necessary. Just let people learn trading. Charge them very heavily for gaining abilities that traders would normally learn. Speculates, Spook caravan, open a shop, customize a caravan, visit the trader shops, etc... Existing traders would have those abilities grandfathered to their current level.
Primary benefit: Traders can still do everything they can do today, and then some. Development time gets more reach.
HEXEDBYTHENET
Re: disband the Trader's Guild
09/09/2015 11:55 AM CDT
Still a big old "no" for me. Just... no.
It was a "no" a month ago, it will be a "no" a month from now.
The Kasto mimic abruptly solidifies, looking very much like Kasto.
>
You say, "What a handsome fellow you are!"
It was a "no" a month ago, it will be a "no" a month from now.
The Kasto mimic abruptly solidifies, looking very much like Kasto.
>
You say, "What a handsome fellow you are!"
ZETHIN01095
Re: disband the Trader's Guild
09/09/2015 11:56 AM CDT
I also love this idea, though I think it would require another expansion to the trader shops in Crossing...
DR-RAESH
Re: disband the Trader's Guild
09/09/2015 01:05 PM CDT
The odds of this happening are about the same as the Trump/Sanders ticket winning in 2016. (Mind you, that's both on the same ticket, not one or the other)
-Raesh
"The trouble with atheism, is that it offers a limited range of curses.” - Two Serpents Rise
-Raesh
"The trouble with atheism, is that it offers a limited range of curses.” - Two Serpents Rise
ZETHIN01095
VOLCANUE
Re: disband the Trader's Guild
09/09/2015 01:21 PM CDT
> The odds of this happening are about the same as the Trump/Sanders ticket winning in 2016. (Mind you, that's both on the same ticket, not one or the other)
Okay, fine. I'll drop this, but I expect us to revisit the conversation if they win. :)
FLINT-TIPPED
Re: disband the Trader's Guild
09/09/2015 02:12 PM CDT
>Does it count if it's Sanders/Trump?
If it's Sanders/Trump they disband all the guilds except the Trader guild and we all become Traders. Which makes as much sense as the disbanding Trader Guild suggestion.
Vote:
http://www.topmudsites.com/vote-DragonRealms.html
If it's Sanders/Trump they disband all the guilds except the Trader guild and we all become Traders. Which makes as much sense as the disbanding Trader Guild suggestion.
Vote:
http://www.topmudsites.com/vote-DragonRealms.html
