>>Because thieves never steal from anyone except to get free gem pouches.
forgetting about how we already had this ability, to hire an attendant hireling. The only possible purpose of this was to allow pouch retrieval in the wilderness, and to allow others to retrieve pouches at a convenience.
What other guild is required to perform services for other people? Can i lean on an empath to check my internals? Can i wink at a thief to have them open my box? Can i yell at a pali to force him to glyph my body? How about my mindstate when i'm dead, can i force a cleric to ward that somehow? How about a moonie? can i force them in anyway to provide a service to me gweth, teleport, precditing my future, anything?
No. It is their prerogative to help or not to help someone else.
Please tell me a single guild that has an ability that is forcefully available to all other guilds members use. I truly would like to know what services i can receive at my whim and desire from all other guilds ability sets.
ASDF123
KROONERMANREVENGE
Re: Caravan pouch/rope availability and limitation
10/21/2014 12:40 PM CDT
>Please tell me a single guild that has an ability that is forcefully available to all other guilds members use. I truly would like to know what services i can receive at my whim and desire from all other guilds ability sets.
Paladin Vessel of Salvation is open to all comers.
MM moon gate can be used by all people.
Basically what you're saying is 'I've done something and now people can do something with it'.
>It's like my caravan is a generic NPC game asset.
It is, apparently.
This is the most ridiculous complaint I've read all week. I might happen to agree with you, it should be a toggle or something, but your logic is just goofy. This is literally costing you nothing. The thief is going to steal from you if he's going to steal from you, and he will, within a 99.9999% likelyhood, have his own bloody gem pouch anyway. So that entire situation boils down to 'whaa, someone stole from me and taunted me' which they could do by putting the gems into any container.
>The only possible purpose of this was to allow pouch retrieval in the wilderness, and to allow others to retrieve pouches at a convenience.
I'd say that wasn't 'the only possible purpose' so much as it was explicitly the intentional purpose. There's a difference.
>What other guild is required
You are not. It's a function of the system you're using, and if you do not like the system, either use a pack animal and lead it, use a different method to learn trading, or play a different guild.
If you want to continue the trend, empaths must heal players to learn empathy below a certain threshold. Clerics must perform certain rituals to keep devotion levels high, one of which is cleaning altars, another of which is creating favor orbs. Bard Enchantes effect multiple people, it gives them 'free' benefit of the buff from the spell.
I'm a badger, I be badgerin'
Paladin Vessel of Salvation is open to all comers.
MM moon gate can be used by all people.
Basically what you're saying is 'I've done something and now people can do something with it'.
>It's like my caravan is a generic NPC game asset.
It is, apparently.
This is the most ridiculous complaint I've read all week. I might happen to agree with you, it should be a toggle or something, but your logic is just goofy. This is literally costing you nothing. The thief is going to steal from you if he's going to steal from you, and he will, within a 99.9999% likelyhood, have his own bloody gem pouch anyway. So that entire situation boils down to 'whaa, someone stole from me and taunted me' which they could do by putting the gems into any container.
>The only possible purpose of this was to allow pouch retrieval in the wilderness, and to allow others to retrieve pouches at a convenience.
I'd say that wasn't 'the only possible purpose' so much as it was explicitly the intentional purpose. There's a difference.
>What other guild is required
You are not. It's a function of the system you're using, and if you do not like the system, either use a pack animal and lead it, use a different method to learn trading, or play a different guild.
If you want to continue the trend, empaths must heal players to learn empathy below a certain threshold. Clerics must perform certain rituals to keep devotion levels high, one of which is cleaning altars, another of which is creating favor orbs. Bard Enchantes effect multiple people, it gives them 'free' benefit of the buff from the spell.
I'm a badger, I be badgerin'
ASDF123
Re: Caravan pouch/rope availability and limitation
10/21/2014 12:58 PM CDT
>Paladin Vessel of Salvation is open to all comers.
this is a spell they can choose not to cast.
>MM moon gate can be used by all people.
Again, this is a spell they can choose not to cast, or cast in an area where others are not present.
From the wiki : The caster can GUARD moongate to prevent people from passing through and NOD to a person to allow passage.
I wonder why this guarding function exists.......
> So that entire situation boils down to 'whaa, someone stole from me and taunted me' which they could do by putting the gems into any container.
that is exactly what my points have NOT been about. But as you bring that up, why have an ability that promotes this?
>empaths must heal players to learn empathy below a certain threshold
so a young empath cannot learn empathy from a class?
>Clerics must perform certain rituals to keep devotion levels high one of which is creating favor orbs
i wonder who they generally choose to use thoes favors on. Key word is choose.
>Bard Enchantes effect multiple people,
they can choose not to sing in public areas, or stop singing at thier will.
So i know what you'll come back with. You can choose not to trade.
And at that you realize that traders do not have ability sets like other guilds.
The caravan and the shop IS basically the entirety of our abilities.
To not be able to control our own abilities makes them not our own.
As all of the examples provided require the permission of the user, I ask of you again, which abilities can i FORCEFULLY receive the benefits from without the permission of the ability owner?
this is a spell they can choose not to cast.
>MM moon gate can be used by all people.
Again, this is a spell they can choose not to cast, or cast in an area where others are not present.
From the wiki : The caster can GUARD moongate to prevent people from passing through and NOD to a person to allow passage.
I wonder why this guarding function exists.......
> So that entire situation boils down to 'whaa, someone stole from me and taunted me' which they could do by putting the gems into any container.
that is exactly what my points have NOT been about. But as you bring that up, why have an ability that promotes this?
>empaths must heal players to learn empathy below a certain threshold
so a young empath cannot learn empathy from a class?
>Clerics must perform certain rituals to keep devotion levels high one of which is creating favor orbs
i wonder who they generally choose to use thoes favors on. Key word is choose.
>Bard Enchantes effect multiple people,
they can choose not to sing in public areas, or stop singing at thier will.
So i know what you'll come back with. You can choose not to trade.
And at that you realize that traders do not have ability sets like other guilds.
The caravan and the shop IS basically the entirety of our abilities.
To not be able to control our own abilities makes them not our own.
As all of the examples provided require the permission of the user, I ask of you again, which abilities can i FORCEFULLY receive the benefits from without the permission of the ability owner?
KROONERMANREVENGE
Re: Caravan pouch/rope availability and limitation
10/21/2014 01:04 PM CDT
>this is a spell they can choose not to cast.
And you can choose not to use a caravan. That was my point. I didn't bother reading the rest of your post.
I'm a badger, I be badgerin'
And you can choose not to use a caravan. That was my point. I didn't bother reading the rest of your post.
I'm a badger, I be badgerin'
ASDF123
Re: Caravan pouch/rope availability and limitation
10/21/2014 04:11 PM CDT
just to question myself, (if there is anyone else interested in responding, other than the one that has been)
>Bard Enchantes effect multiple people,
can a bard not sing quietly, as to only effect themselves?
>empaths must heal players to learn empathy below a certain threshold
But still then, if they do not want to heal someone specifically, they can heal someone else that they wish to.
i mean, i dont want to use false assumptions in my statements, but if those are false, let me know.
but to tell a trader that an option is to not trade, you know, i don't know why you even came in here.
>Bard Enchantes effect multiple people,
can a bard not sing quietly, as to only effect themselves?
>empaths must heal players to learn empathy below a certain threshold
But still then, if they do not want to heal someone specifically, they can heal someone else that they wish to.
i mean, i dont want to use false assumptions in my statements, but if those are false, let me know.
but to tell a trader that an option is to not trade, you know, i don't know why you even came in here.
ABSOLON
Re: Caravan pouch/rope availability and limitation
10/21/2014 05:01 PM CDT
While I am not against it being a toggle, and do feel that on its own merits is a reasonable request...
The complaint used to request the feature is silly. It's a gem pouch or a bundling rope. Get over it.
Elanthipedia - https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Main_Page
Epedia Admins - https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Elanthipedia:Administrators
The complaint used to request the feature is silly. It's a gem pouch or a bundling rope. Get over it.
Elanthipedia - https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Main_Page
Epedia Admins - https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Elanthipedia:Administrators
ASDF123
Re: Caravan pouch/rope availability and limitation
10/21/2014 06:00 PM CDT
>While I am not against it being a toggle, and do feel that on its own merits is a reasonable request...
>The complaint used to request the feature is silly. It's a gem pouch or a bundling rope. Get over it.
Existing systems set precedent for future systems.
Without voicing concerns about mechanics of existing systems, undesirable ideas can easily become standards for future systems.
Do you really think my concern is about pouches and bundling ropes?
>The complaint used to request the feature is silly. It's a gem pouch or a bundling rope. Get over it.
Existing systems set precedent for future systems.
Without voicing concerns about mechanics of existing systems, undesirable ideas can easily become standards for future systems.
Do you really think my concern is about pouches and bundling ropes?
ABSOLON
Re: Caravan pouch/rope availability and limitation
10/21/2014 06:14 PM CDT
You're going full-on GvG over a free gem pouch. Step back from the table a moment and you'll see how ridiculous that sounds. All this needed was a suggestion asking for a toggle in the main topic thread.
Elanthipedia - https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Main_Page
Epedia Admins - https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Elanthipedia:Administrators
Elanthipedia - https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Main_Page
Epedia Admins - https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Elanthipedia:Administrators
KROONERMANREVENGE
Re: Caravan pouch/rope availability and limitation
10/21/2014 07:05 PM CDT
>Do you really think my concern is about pouches and bundling ropes?
Yes.
I'm a badger, I be badgerin'
Yes.
I'm a badger, I be badgerin'
ASDF123
Re: Caravan pouch/rope availability and limitation
10/22/2014 09:58 AM CDT
>>On a less snarky note, the odds of finding a trader not AFK scripting a caravan route are so low that you might as well fall over in the road and wait for a GMNPC to deliver you a pouch. Yes, I'm sure you never do it.
i'm sure an entire guild appreciates being called policy violating, mechanics abusing jacks... why are you here again?
>I will agree with what Absolon posted prior, just asking for a way to toggle this on or off would probably have been a whole lot more constructive and would have saved at least a half dozen posts on this topic.
sure a suggestion might of been appropriate here aswell, but this is not just a suggestion, this is a complaint. A suggestion would be more appropriate for something not quite live yet, or for something that is live, but not so intrusive to our play as to be
forced by the guild to do business with others regardless of who they are or what situation might arise.
i'm sure an entire guild appreciates being called policy violating, mechanics abusing jacks... why are you here again?
>I will agree with what Absolon posted prior, just asking for a way to toggle this on or off would probably have been a whole lot more constructive and would have saved at least a half dozen posts on this topic.
sure a suggestion might of been appropriate here aswell, but this is not just a suggestion, this is a complaint. A suggestion would be more appropriate for something not quite live yet, or for something that is live, but not so intrusive to our play as to be
forced by the guild to do business with others regardless of who they are or what situation might arise.
KROONERMANREVENGE
Re: Caravan pouch/rope availability and limitation
10/22/2014 11:00 AM CDT
>i'm sure an entire guild appreciates being called policy violating, mechanics abusing jacks... why are you here again?
Yes. That's what happened.
I'm a badger, I be badgerin'
Yes. That's what happened.
I'm a badger, I be badgerin'
JARAGONA
Re: Caravan pouch/rope availability and limitation
10/22/2014 01:01 PM CDT
Don't get all worked up, because it distracts from the points you are trying to make. To be honest, I've lost track of the original points you're making because you're deep into defensiveness. I like that you have ideas, just try not to get so upset so quickly. You have suggestions/complaints and the appropriate GMs can see them. If you get too angsty, you'll get ignored, which defeats the purpose of your posts. Anyway, keep on keeping on and I love that you want improvements in the guild.
"Brace yourselves, Squanto is going to bleh blah fart fart bleh.." -the player of the character formerly known as Pureblade
"Brace yourselves, Squanto is going to bleh blah fart fart bleh.." -the player of the character formerly known as Pureblade
HEXEDBYTHENET
Re: Caravan pouch/rope availability and limitation
10/22/2014 02:05 PM CDT
>>I will agree with what Absolon posted prior, just asking for a way to toggle this on or off would probably have been a whole lot more constructive and would have saved at least a half dozen posts on this topic.
>sure a suggestion might of been appropriate here aswell, but this is not just a suggestion, this is a complaint. A suggestion would be more appropriate for something not quite live yet, or for something that is live, but not so intrusive to our play as to be forced by the guild to do business with others regardless of who they are or what situation might arise.
Complaints and suggestions are like best-friends. In my opinion, if you're going to waste time and energy complaining about something, having a suggestion on how to fix it is obviously the smart to do. Afterall, I expect we're all no longer temper tantrum throwing four year olds. Right? Not that you are one, just saying that none of us should be acting like one.
I understand you don't want to be forced to do something that you don't want to do, however, I don't see it as being intrusive to play at all. It's a simple service offered by the Guild through their chosen representatives (A.K.A. You!) by using one of the most far-traveling aspects of the profession (A.K.A. Your caravan!) in order to cater to consumers (A.K.A. Everyone else.) who desire it.
So, yeah, toggles are awesome. Because if someone doesn't want to do something and they don't have to do it, they shouldn't be made to do it against their wishes. Hence the need to make it a user-controlled aspect of caravans.
Salute a drowned sailor? You ought to brush up on your protocol, Kasto.
>sure a suggestion might of been appropriate here aswell, but this is not just a suggestion, this is a complaint. A suggestion would be more appropriate for something not quite live yet, or for something that is live, but not so intrusive to our play as to be forced by the guild to do business with others regardless of who they are or what situation might arise.
Complaints and suggestions are like best-friends. In my opinion, if you're going to waste time and energy complaining about something, having a suggestion on how to fix it is obviously the smart to do. Afterall, I expect we're all no longer temper tantrum throwing four year olds. Right? Not that you are one, just saying that none of us should be acting like one.
I understand you don't want to be forced to do something that you don't want to do, however, I don't see it as being intrusive to play at all. It's a simple service offered by the Guild through their chosen representatives (A.K.A. You!) by using one of the most far-traveling aspects of the profession (A.K.A. Your caravan!) in order to cater to consumers (A.K.A. Everyone else.) who desire it.
So, yeah, toggles are awesome. Because if someone doesn't want to do something and they don't have to do it, they shouldn't be made to do it against their wishes. Hence the need to make it a user-controlled aspect of caravans.
Salute a drowned sailor? You ought to brush up on your protocol, Kasto.
KROONERMANREVENGE
Re: Caravan pouch/rope availability and limitation
10/22/2014 05:14 PM CDT
>I understand you don't want to be forced to do something that you don't want to do, however, I don't see it as being intrusive to play at all. It's a simple service offered by the Guild through their chosen representatives (A.K.A. You!) by using one of the most far-traveling aspects of the profession (A.K.A. Your caravan!) in order to cater to consumers (A.K.A. Everyone else.) who desire it.
Honestly, the phrase that keeps popping into my head is 'free advertising'. It would be way more amusing if the 'gemologist' said something which was obviously a plug "This pouch brought to you buy your friends over at the Crossings trader guild! That's right, Crossing Trader Guild, for all your buying and selling needs!" and the pouches and ropes were branded.
I'm a badger, I be badgerin'
Honestly, the phrase that keeps popping into my head is 'free advertising'. It would be way more amusing if the 'gemologist' said something which was obviously a plug "This pouch brought to you buy your friends over at the Crossings trader guild! That's right, Crossing Trader Guild, for all your buying and selling needs!" and the pouches and ropes were branded.
I'm a badger, I be badgerin'
SPANTONV
Re: Caravan pouch/rope availability and limitation
10/24/2014 02:37 PM CDT
Speaking of free advertising, I wonder if the gem pouches (not sure about the bundling ropes) could have our name stamped on them? Just a thought.
Regards,
Sortny/Braunwen
Regards,
Sortny/Braunwen
DRSCOTT
Re: Caravan pouch/rope availability and limitation
10/26/2014 11:39 PM CDT
I'm coming into this thread kind of late, so apologies in advance. It seems to me that the caravan driver works for the trader who rents the caravan. Any additional control the trader has over the behavior of the caravan or driver would further reinforce this concept. The original scenario sounds like a one-off and this would certainly be low priority, but a demeanor setting for the driver seems appropriate to me.
That said, any time pouches come up I have to protest the inability to sell tied pouches. Pouch tying is an OOC mechanic (what's the IC term for item count?) and selling should not be guild restricted.
That said, any time pouches come up I have to protest the inability to sell tied pouches. Pouch tying is an OOC mechanic (what's the IC term for item count?) and selling should not be guild restricted.
HEXEDBYTHENET
Re: Caravan pouch/rope availability and limitation
10/27/2014 08:40 AM CDT
>Pouch tying is an OOC mechanic
Eh, I'd argue on this one. It's an IC action which can provide some IC and OOC benefit. Tying up anything (bundles, pouches) is an attempt to make a cleaner package that is easier to carry and also suitable for selling. No different than tying up a group of sticks for firewood, it makes them easier to carry out of the wooded area and makes them easily grouped for selling.
>selling should not be guild restricted.
It is and it isn't.
Most the shops only deal with Traders, if you'd prefer think of it as the shop owners attempt at added security against getting scammed. But, if you're not a Trader and still want to sell pouches, you'll just have to find a shop owner who is willing to take that gamble.
BTW: Those gem shops are in River Clan, Horse Clan, Rosssman's, Throne, Darkling Wood, and M'Riss.
Salute a drowned sailor? You ought to brush up on your protocol, Kasto.
Eh, I'd argue on this one. It's an IC action which can provide some IC and OOC benefit. Tying up anything (bundles, pouches) is an attempt to make a cleaner package that is easier to carry and also suitable for selling. No different than tying up a group of sticks for firewood, it makes them easier to carry out of the wooded area and makes them easily grouped for selling.
>selling should not be guild restricted.
It is and it isn't.
Most the shops only deal with Traders, if you'd prefer think of it as the shop owners attempt at added security against getting scammed. But, if you're not a Trader and still want to sell pouches, you'll just have to find a shop owner who is willing to take that gamble.
BTW: Those gem shops are in River Clan, Horse Clan, Rosssman's, Throne, Darkling Wood, and M'Riss.
Salute a drowned sailor? You ought to brush up on your protocol, Kasto.
ASTARIN2
Re: Caravan pouch/rope availability and limitation
10/27/2014 02:12 PM CDT
The fact that tying a pouch keeps you from ever opening the pouch again makes it OOC. If the gem buyer will only buy in bulk from traders, that's fine, but you have to admit it's only OOC reasons (item count management) that tied pouches exist and can't be untied (database management).
MAUFER
Re: Caravan pouch/rope availability and limitation
10/28/2014 11:40 PM CDT
>That said, any time pouches come up I have to protest the inability to sell tied pouches. Pouch tying is an OOC mechanic (what's the IC term for item count?) and selling should not be guild restricted.
On the note of selling being guild restricted : i'd like to suggest a comparison between elanthian gem sales and the real life diamond market, say De Beers.
I think it is entirely realistic and even reflective of real life for the gem market to be exclusive in nature, mainly controlled by a single corporate entity, and for buying and selling of large quantities to be limited by association.
I dont think the gem market is supposed to be fair for the public.
On the note of selling being guild restricted : i'd like to suggest a comparison between elanthian gem sales and the real life diamond market, say De Beers.
I think it is entirely realistic and even reflective of real life for the gem market to be exclusive in nature, mainly controlled by a single corporate entity, and for buying and selling of large quantities to be limited by association.
I dont think the gem market is supposed to be fair for the public.
DRSCOTT
Re: Caravan pouch/rope availability and limitation
10/29/2014 10:43 AM CDT
>I dont think the gem market is supposed to be fair for the public.
Nobody said fair, but it's silly when gem buyers won't buy a pouch at all because it was tied. I'm totally fine with getting ripped off on price.
Nobody said fair, but it's silly when gem buyers won't buy a pouch at all because it was tied. I'm totally fine with getting ripped off on price.
GRINOM
Re: Caravan pouch/rope availability and limitation
12/08/2014 07:40 PM CST
I'm coming late to this party, but tying a bundle falls under the same mechanics and it isn't OOC at all. It provides the same benefits and such..and gem pouch selling isn't just restricted to traders, though you'd have to find a shop that will actually buy from nontraders.
Food for thought.
Annandale
DRSCOTT
Re: Caravan pouch/rope availability and limitation
12/10/2014 04:03 PM CST
>I'm coming late to this party, but tying a bundle falls under the same mechanics and it isn't OOC at all. It provides the same benefits and such..and gem pouch selling isn't just restricted to traders, though you'd have to find a shop that will actually buy from nontraders.
I'm going to have to respectfully disagree. You can sell a tied bundle at any shop. The OOC part is the item count mechanics which is the only thing that tying a pouch is really useful for.
I'm going to have to respectfully disagree. You can sell a tied bundle at any shop. The OOC part is the item count mechanics which is the only thing that tying a pouch is really useful for.
