I feel that Trader development is completely missing the mark these days.
Now more than ever, the game has a focused development which the Trader guild seems to have opted out of. Fancy new NMU 'magic' system with an Armifer-proposed Trader system? No thanks, say the Trader GMs. Outdated monopoly on a convenience based signature ability? Trader GMs say they aren't listening to players so don't bother. Etc.
-Evran
The first slayer of Malik, may he not rest in peace.
MOOK1
GRIM45
Re: Move Traders into the 21st century already
04/22/2011 11:23 AM CDT
>>Now more than ever, the game has a focused development which the Trader guild seems to have opted out of. Fancy new NMU 'magic' system with an Armifer-proposed Trader system? No thanks, say the Trader GMs. Outdated monopoly on a convenience based signature ability? Trader GMs say they aren't listening to players so don't bother. Etc.
QFT.
After reading all the proposed changes for MU and NMU (Thief/Barb) guilds, I find myself wanting to roll up a character for pretty much every guild. Except Traders.
TG, TG, GL, et al.
QFT.
After reading all the proposed changes for MU and NMU (Thief/Barb) guilds, I find myself wanting to roll up a character for pretty much every guild. Except Traders.
TG, TG, GL, et al.
DR-SOCHARIS
Re: Move Traders into the 21st century already
04/22/2011 11:48 AM CDT
>>Trader GMs say they aren't listening to players so don't bother. Etc.
I think this is an unfair characterization. Just because we don't agree with you doesn't mean we're not listening to your concerns, and it doesn't mean that a lot of thought and discussion hasn't gone into the decisions we've made.
>>Outdated monopoly on a convenience based signature ability?
I think it bears noting that this has nothing to do with trader development, and is essentially another way of saying "I wish I didn't have to rely on traders to make my life easier in this way". What you're asking for is not trader development - you're asking to take away a major benefit of being a trader and give it to everybody, leaving only a fraction of the utility as trader-only.
Additionally, consider that less than a year ago, a monumental new system was released to traders. POCs are also a pretty recent development, and the Big Project I'm working on right now is pretty substantial system that will add a lot to traders. I'm not prepared to present details about it juuuuust yet, though. Arnimas has been adding various nice HIRE things as well.
--
"The ninety and nine are with dreams, content but the hope of the world made new, is the hundredth man who is grimly bent on making those dreams come true." -E.A.P.
I think this is an unfair characterization. Just because we don't agree with you doesn't mean we're not listening to your concerns, and it doesn't mean that a lot of thought and discussion hasn't gone into the decisions we've made.
>>Outdated monopoly on a convenience based signature ability?
I think it bears noting that this has nothing to do with trader development, and is essentially another way of saying "I wish I didn't have to rely on traders to make my life easier in this way". What you're asking for is not trader development - you're asking to take away a major benefit of being a trader and give it to everybody, leaving only a fraction of the utility as trader-only.
Additionally, consider that less than a year ago, a monumental new system was released to traders. POCs are also a pretty recent development, and the Big Project I'm working on right now is pretty substantial system that will add a lot to traders. I'm not prepared to present details about it juuuuust yet, though. Arnimas has been adding various nice HIRE things as well.
--
"The ninety and nine are with dreams, content but the hope of the world made new, is the hundredth man who is grimly bent on making those dreams come true." -E.A.P.
MOOK1
Re: Move Traders into the 21st century already
04/22/2011 12:06 PM CDT
I'm sorry, but you were the one who said any discussion on gem pouch discussion was "moot" because the GMs had already made up their mind and weren't going to to change it. That was within the last 24 hours. I'd say it was a pretty fair characterization.
The Trader guild sucks, and its too limited in scope to get out of that suckage. There needs to be a major overhaul of what a Trader is. That is the development boat that is being missed.
-Evran
The first slayer of Malik, may he not rest in peace.
The Trader guild sucks, and its too limited in scope to get out of that suckage. There needs to be a major overhaul of what a Trader is. That is the development boat that is being missed.
-Evran
The first slayer of Malik, may he not rest in peace.
GERSTEINJ2
Re: Move Traders into the 21st century already
04/22/2011 12:07 PM CDT
but the thing of it is: APU posted a whole flock of ideas that were inspired by the MU changes. I haven't seen any "change" put in as far as khri are concerned, but they are good already. and the barbarians got some very nice looking abilities coming. What's wrong with giving traders a piece of the pie.
To quote Oliver... Please, I want some more...
There's additional systems that i'm sure will be out with the mechsplit: such as gemsmithing, etc.
But there are other things - that we've been waiting on too.
Smuggling together with thieves. Fun for both guilds.
Trading WITH critters. all those short swords the goblins have have to come from SOMEWHERE.
-sand elf in plat, old & lazy s'kra in prime, and a greedy dwarf in TF -
By the way. PLEASE put in the changes to trading EXP in TF.
Thx!
You've seen life through distorted eyes;You know you had to learn;The execution of your mind;You really had to turn;,the book is read,The end begins to show,The truth is out, the lies are old, But you don't want to know - Black Sabbath
To quote Oliver... Please, I want some more...
There's additional systems that i'm sure will be out with the mechsplit: such as gemsmithing, etc.
But there are other things - that we've been waiting on too.
Smuggling together with thieves. Fun for both guilds.
Trading WITH critters. all those short swords the goblins have have to come from SOMEWHERE.
-sand elf in plat, old & lazy s'kra in prime, and a greedy dwarf in TF -
By the way. PLEASE put in the changes to trading EXP in TF.
Thx!
You've seen life through distorted eyes;You know you had to learn;The execution of your mind;You really had to turn;,the book is read,The end begins to show,The truth is out, the lies are old, But you don't want to know - Black Sabbath
DR-SOCHARIS
Re: Move Traders into the 21st century already
04/22/2011 12:31 PM CDT
>>I'm sorry, but you were the one who said any discussion on gem pouch discussion was "moot" because the GMs had already made up their mind and weren't going to to change it. That was within the last 24 hours. I'd say it was a pretty fair characterization.
If this was the first time the discussion had come up, I'd agree with you. It's come up at least twice since I made the change to pouches a year or two ago. Reiterating the same discussion benefits nobody unless some of the data has changed, and at this point it hasn't.
Additionally, it bears reminding you that only non-traders are requesting that change to gem pouches. No matter how you want to interpret what I said above, this is not a case of Trader GMs not listening to Trader requests.
>>The Trader guild sucks, and its too limited in scope to get out of that suckage. There needs to be a major overhaul of what a Trader is. That is the development boat that is being missed.
The question of "What does it mean to be a Trader" is a very, very interesting one. I'd love to see a full-blown discourse on it, if that's something you're interested in. I think you'll find perspectives very different from your own, because the direction you very clearly want the Trader's guild to go in is not the same direction that many people who actually play traders want.
>>What's wrong with giving traders a piece of the pie.
Absolutely nothing. I don't think anybody wants traders to not have things in the new ability structure.
>>But there are other things - that we've been waiting on too.
Absolutely. I'm pretty happy with the things that are in flight for Traders right now, to be honest. I know you've heard 'be patient' plenty of times, but until I'm prepared to talk about my Secret Project all I can say is that Gemcutting is getting fairly close to finished.
--
"The ninety and nine are with dreams, content but the hope of the world made new, is the hundredth man who is grimly bent on making those dreams come true." -E.A.P.
If this was the first time the discussion had come up, I'd agree with you. It's come up at least twice since I made the change to pouches a year or two ago. Reiterating the same discussion benefits nobody unless some of the data has changed, and at this point it hasn't.
Additionally, it bears reminding you that only non-traders are requesting that change to gem pouches. No matter how you want to interpret what I said above, this is not a case of Trader GMs not listening to Trader requests.
>>The Trader guild sucks, and its too limited in scope to get out of that suckage. There needs to be a major overhaul of what a Trader is. That is the development boat that is being missed.
The question of "What does it mean to be a Trader" is a very, very interesting one. I'd love to see a full-blown discourse on it, if that's something you're interested in. I think you'll find perspectives very different from your own, because the direction you very clearly want the Trader's guild to go in is not the same direction that many people who actually play traders want.
>>What's wrong with giving traders a piece of the pie.
Absolutely nothing. I don't think anybody wants traders to not have things in the new ability structure.
>>But there are other things - that we've been waiting on too.
Absolutely. I'm pretty happy with the things that are in flight for Traders right now, to be honest. I know you've heard 'be patient' plenty of times, but until I'm prepared to talk about my Secret Project all I can say is that Gemcutting is getting fairly close to finished.
--
"The ninety and nine are with dreams, content but the hope of the world made new, is the hundredth man who is grimly bent on making those dreams come true." -E.A.P.
NINEVAH1
Re: Move Traders into the 21st century already
04/22/2011 01:07 PM CDT
>>I'm sorry, but you were the one who said any discussion on gem pouch discussion was "moot" because the GMs had already made up their mind and weren't going to to change it. That was within the last 24 hours. I'd say it was a pretty fair characterization.
Taking this one topic that was explained that it was already discussed/debated by the GMs, and making it a generalization that they do not listen to the players at all is very much an unfair characterization.
Taking this one topic that was explained that it was already discussed/debated by the GMs, and making it a generalization that they do not listen to the players at all is very much an unfair characterization.
LHFERREE1
Re: Move Traders into the 21st century already
04/22/2011 01:31 PM CDT
>The question of "What does it mean to be a Trader" is a very, very interesting one. I'd love to see a full-blown discourse on it, if that's something you're interested in. I think you'll find perspectives very different from your own, because the direction you very clearly want the Trader's guild to go in is not the same direction that many people who actually play traders want.
I'm actually really interested in this too. My primary character a few years ago was a Trader. I can't really put a finger on why I switched to other Guilds, but at the time I think I convinced myself that I didn't enjoy the opportunities/abilities/etc. within the Guild. I've never really given the Guild a second chance despite the major changes that have occurred. So what should further development for the Trader's guild focus on? Someone like me, who's ruled out the guild for some reason or another, or someone who's already in the guild? I don't really fault any GM for focusing on people who are already in the guild for this or that reason. There need to be differences between the guilds to attract different sorts of people.
~~
Lupdels
I'm actually really interested in this too. My primary character a few years ago was a Trader. I can't really put a finger on why I switched to other Guilds, but at the time I think I convinced myself that I didn't enjoy the opportunities/abilities/etc. within the Guild. I've never really given the Guild a second chance despite the major changes that have occurred. So what should further development for the Trader's guild focus on? Someone like me, who's ruled out the guild for some reason or another, or someone who's already in the guild? I don't really fault any GM for focusing on people who are already in the guild for this or that reason. There need to be differences between the guilds to attract different sorts of people.
~~
Lupdels
SMTHSAILN
Re: Move Traders into the 21st century already
04/22/2011 01:53 PM CDT
Until money represents a power in its own right it is merely fluff abilities, in my very limited opinion.
Almost all the characters I have played have the gear they are going to use for the rest of their days in the first month.
Almost all the characters I have played have the gear they are going to use for the rest of their days in the first month.
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Move Traders into the 21st century already
04/22/2011 03:34 PM CDT
I feel that Traders justifiably need more "stuff" but having them hold monopolies on something as nonsensical as tied pouches in lieu of that stuff shoehorns the guild into having silly niche things as opposed to boons that have actual teeth.
I feel shops were an awesome step in the right direction. I feel that they should get a better market share of the creation systems be it a bonus slot beyond the lore primary ones, more than three default crafting bonuses points, etc.
But "you can sell a tied bundle but not a tied pouch because that's a Trader thing" reeks of the territorialism of the magic system is currently trying to phase out, where a logical thing is blocked out to many because someone made a choice around a decade ago.
"We're not "out to get you," we're here to enhance your playing experience with extreme prejudice.," DR-ARMIFER
I feel shops were an awesome step in the right direction. I feel that they should get a better market share of the creation systems be it a bonus slot beyond the lore primary ones, more than three default crafting bonuses points, etc.
But "you can sell a tied bundle but not a tied pouch because that's a Trader thing" reeks of the territorialism of the magic system is currently trying to phase out, where a logical thing is blocked out to many because someone made a choice around a decade ago.
"We're not "out to get you," we're here to enhance your playing experience with extreme prejudice.," DR-ARMIFER
GRIM45
Re: Move Traders into the 21st century already
04/22/2011 04:15 PM CDT
Idea:
Combine shops + Traders Gem selling monopoly.
Allow a trader to run their own financed gem buyer from their shop, which they would have to keep stocked with cash. Once it runs out of cash, it stops buying.
TG, TG, GL, et al.
Combine shops + Traders Gem selling monopoly.
Allow a trader to run their own financed gem buyer from their shop, which they would have to keep stocked with cash. Once it runs out of cash, it stops buying.
TG, TG, GL, et al.
JASON42
Re: Move Traders into the 21st century already
04/22/2011 06:35 PM CDT
>>POCs are also a pretty recent development
I keep hearing about this and finding out that people have them, but could somebody please tell me where I can get one?
Ill give kudos for upping the contract experience, and for expansion of the Market Plaza - now ALL traders can have their own shop in the crossing!
"None of you seem to understand. I'm not locked in here with you, you're locked in here with me!" - Rorschach
I keep hearing about this and finding out that people have them, but could somebody please tell me where I can get one?
Ill give kudos for upping the contract experience, and for expansion of the Market Plaza - now ALL traders can have their own shop in the crossing!
"None of you seem to understand. I'm not locked in here with you, you're locked in here with me!" - Rorschach
SPANTONV
Re: Move Traders into the 21st century already
04/22/2011 06:39 PM CDT
POC's are sold at guild fest and hallow eve's fest.
Regards,
Sortny/Braunwen
Regards,
Sortny/Braunwen
DR-ARNIMAS
Re: Move Traders into the 21st century already
04/22/2011 07:22 PM CDT
<< Fancy new NMU 'magic' system with an Armifer-proposed Trader system? No thanks, say the Trader GMs.
I welcome you to find any post by me that states I'm against the NMU 'magic' system. Please don't put words in my mouth. Apu posted a very interesting post and I saw a second one as well and I liked many of the ideas. Coding in magic is much like coding on ships or horses, it isn't something that someone jumps into easily if they haven't done so before. With the rewrites, it makes it even more difficult since changes are in the future.
'Trader magic' may be an option at some point. However, I have a list of projects I am/have been working on and need to complete before I can add more to my list. That isn't to say another GM may not step forward and volunteer to work in an area like this though.
Best Regards,
~GM Arnimas
"Wealth is not his that has it, but his who enjoys it."
-Benjamin Franklin
I welcome you to find any post by me that states I'm against the NMU 'magic' system. Please don't put words in my mouth. Apu posted a very interesting post and I saw a second one as well and I liked many of the ideas. Coding in magic is much like coding on ships or horses, it isn't something that someone jumps into easily if they haven't done so before. With the rewrites, it makes it even more difficult since changes are in the future.
'Trader magic' may be an option at some point. However, I have a list of projects I am/have been working on and need to complete before I can add more to my list. That isn't to say another GM may not step forward and volunteer to work in an area like this though.
Best Regards,
~GM Arnimas
"Wealth is not his that has it, but his who enjoys it."
-Benjamin Franklin
DR-ARNIMAS
Re: Move Traders into the 21st century already
04/22/2011 07:25 PM CDT
<< I keep hearing about this and finding out that people have them, but could somebody please tell me where I can get one?
As Sortny said, at the Guild Fest and HE Fest, you can find POC shops. I am also currently working on a 24/7 shop for the guild as well.
Best Regards,
~GM Arnimas
"Wealth is not his that has it, but his who enjoys it."
-Benjamin Franklin
As Sortny said, at the Guild Fest and HE Fest, you can find POC shops. I am also currently working on a 24/7 shop for the guild as well.
Best Regards,
~GM Arnimas
"Wealth is not his that has it, but his who enjoys it."
-Benjamin Franklin
ELLUSIONZ
Re: Move Traders into the 21st century already
04/22/2011 07:58 PM CDT
I love all the additions the GM's have been giving us. POC's and shops rule. Tho I would like to see a return of the POC merchant to do some more alterations for us! Also, wasn't there an idea previously about a black market and us working more with the thieves? I was hoping to see an expansion on Raven's Court and in that area, any updates on it?
On a whim...: http://www.lostonawhim.com/
The Zoluren army asks, "We're um.... really sorry about the clubhouse and all... so uh... are we cool?"
On a whim...: http://www.lostonawhim.com/
The Zoluren army asks, "We're um.... really sorry about the clubhouse and all... so uh... are we cool?"
MOOK1
Re: Move Traders into the 21st century already
04/22/2011 09:56 PM CDT
<<only non-Traders requesting that pouches be opened up.
Perhaps you should look up the character name I sign my posts with. While Evran is most well known as a Moon Mage, his Plat incarnation which existed first is a Trader. Its no longer my primary character frankly because the guild is so completely undeveloped except for 'We're good at making money.' Which itself is ironic, since Traders aren't the best at it.
-Evran
The first slayer of Malik, may he not rest in peace.
Perhaps you should look up the character name I sign my posts with. While Evran is most well known as a Moon Mage, his Plat incarnation which existed first is a Trader. Its no longer my primary character frankly because the guild is so completely undeveloped except for 'We're good at making money.' Which itself is ironic, since Traders aren't the best at it.
-Evran
The first slayer of Malik, may he not rest in peace.
MOOK1
Re: Move Traders into the 21st century already
04/22/2011 10:03 PM CDT
<<Arminas
It was a post by Armifer in response to the question asking why Traders aren't part of magic 3.0. He said he made a proposal that wasn't accepted by the Trader GMs. Which is what my statement said. Your paraphrase incorrectly extrapolates that I was referring to magic 3.0 as a whole.
I am greatly disappointed that the magic 3.0 yak isn't being siezed by the horns since this is the perfect time to do so.
-Evran
The first slayer of Malik, may he not rest in peace.
It was a post by Armifer in response to the question asking why Traders aren't part of magic 3.0. He said he made a proposal that wasn't accepted by the Trader GMs. Which is what my statement said. Your paraphrase incorrectly extrapolates that I was referring to magic 3.0 as a whole.
I am greatly disappointed that the magic 3.0 yak isn't being siezed by the horns since this is the perfect time to do so.
-Evran
The first slayer of Malik, may he not rest in peace.
MOOK1
Re: Move Traders into the 21st century already
04/22/2011 10:46 PM CDT
Oh, and the other Magic 3.0 proposal besides Apu's that everyone remembers but can't put a name to was mine.
It was made in direct response to Armifer's post about his own proposal being shot down.
-Evran
The first slayer of Malik, may he not rest in peace.
It was made in direct response to Armifer's post about his own proposal being shot down.
-Evran
The first slayer of Malik, may he not rest in peace.
DR-SOCHARIS
Re: Move Traders into the 21st century already
04/22/2011 10:53 PM CDT
>>I am greatly disappointed that the magic 3.0 yak isn't being siezed by the horns since this is the perfect time to do so.
Luckily this isn't the only chance we'll get to integrate into Magic 3.0. Like Arnimas said, nobody's working on it right now because nobody that has the drive has the time.
>>He said he made a proposal that wasn't accepted by the Trader GMs.
IIRC (and I don't have the post handy to quote), Armifer said 'Powers That Be', which includes but is far from limited to Trader GMs.
>>Perhaps you should look up the character name I sign my posts with. While Evran is most well known as a Moon Mage, his Plat incarnation which existed first is a Trader. Its no longer my primary character frankly because the guild is so completely undeveloped except for 'We're good at making money.'
I did, in fact. I'm not in the habit of considering it a 'request from a trader player' if the trader hasn't been logged in in almost [redacted] and didn't break circle [redacted]. You may have played a trader in the past, but I would be hard pressed to consider you a Trader player.
That would be like me suggesting that you treat me like an IT employee, even though I haven't manned a help desk in almost three years. Which, come to think of it, happens altogether too often :(.
--
"The ninety and nine are with dreams, content but the hope of the world made new, is the hundredth man who is grimly bent on making those dreams come true." -E.A.P.
Luckily this isn't the only chance we'll get to integrate into Magic 3.0. Like Arnimas said, nobody's working on it right now because nobody that has the drive has the time.
>>He said he made a proposal that wasn't accepted by the Trader GMs.
IIRC (and I don't have the post handy to quote), Armifer said 'Powers That Be', which includes but is far from limited to Trader GMs.
>>Perhaps you should look up the character name I sign my posts with. While Evran is most well known as a Moon Mage, his Plat incarnation which existed first is a Trader. Its no longer my primary character frankly because the guild is so completely undeveloped except for 'We're good at making money.'
I did, in fact. I'm not in the habit of considering it a 'request from a trader player' if the trader hasn't been logged in in almost [redacted] and didn't break circle [redacted]. You may have played a trader in the past, but I would be hard pressed to consider you a Trader player.
That would be like me suggesting that you treat me like an IT employee, even though I haven't manned a help desk in almost three years. Which, come to think of it, happens altogether too often :(.
--
"The ninety and nine are with dreams, content but the hope of the world made new, is the hundredth man who is grimly bent on making those dreams come true." -E.A.P.
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Move Traders into the 21st century already
04/22/2011 11:03 PM CDT
So how many circles/hours would I have to put into a Trader to have my viewpoint not get written off as someone non-Trader-so-who-cares?
"We're not "out to get you," we're here to enhance your playing experience with extreme prejudice.," DR-ARMIFER
"We're not "out to get you," we're here to enhance your playing experience with extreme prejudice.," DR-ARMIFER
NEELD
Re: Move Traders into the 21st century already
04/23/2011 12:02 AM CDT
Reset:
1. I want to sell tied pouches.
2. No.
3. Ohh yeah, well you all blow and I am taking my ball and going home.
4. P.S. The Trader GM's blow and the Trader Guild blows.
Really? Over pouches? I'll link a gem selling script for each of you.
Madigan
1. I want to sell tied pouches.
2. No.
3. Ohh yeah, well you all blow and I am taking my ball and going home.
4. P.S. The Trader GM's blow and the Trader Guild blows.
Really? Over pouches? I'll link a gem selling script for each of you.
Madigan
REASONMJ
Re: Move Traders into the 21st century already
04/23/2011 01:23 AM CDT
>>I feel that Trader development is completely missing the mark these days.
>>Now more than ever, the game has a focused development which the Trader guild seems to have opted out of. Fancy new NMU 'magic' system with an Armifer-proposed Trader system? No thanks, say the Trader GMs.
I definitely agree to some degree, but there's some extreme hyperbole going on here (and elsewhere in the thread). I'm still really annoyed about Traders being left out of Magic 3.0 when it was the perfect chance to bring the guild somewhere remotely close to up to par with other guilds - but it's not like it was the Trader GMs who refused to let us have new abilities
>>I welcome you to find any post by me that states I'm against the NMU 'magic' system. Please don't put words in my mouth.
Actually I lied, Arnimas specifically e-mailed me that he "hates Traders and that we would only get magic abilities over his dead body". Those were his exact tasty words! That I put in his mouth just now
*hides before he becomes the dead body*
>>So how many circles/hours would I have to put into a Trader to have my viewpoint not get written off as someone non-Trader-so-who-cares?
However many hours it takes you to come up with suggestions that would benefit the Trader's guild, while being feasible to code, worth the coding time invested, etc, all that jazz
Good suggestions are good suggestions regardless of the source. And suggestions that would screw over a particular guild are not the suggestions of someone who cares about that guild, regardless of how many circles or hours they have logged
Apu
>>Now more than ever, the game has a focused development which the Trader guild seems to have opted out of. Fancy new NMU 'magic' system with an Armifer-proposed Trader system? No thanks, say the Trader GMs.
I definitely agree to some degree, but there's some extreme hyperbole going on here (and elsewhere in the thread). I'm still really annoyed about Traders being left out of Magic 3.0 when it was the perfect chance to bring the guild somewhere remotely close to up to par with other guilds - but it's not like it was the Trader GMs who refused to let us have new abilities
>>I welcome you to find any post by me that states I'm against the NMU 'magic' system. Please don't put words in my mouth.
Actually I lied, Arnimas specifically e-mailed me that he "hates Traders and that we would only get magic abilities over his dead body". Those were his exact tasty words! That I put in his mouth just now
*hides before he becomes the dead body*
>>So how many circles/hours would I have to put into a Trader to have my viewpoint not get written off as someone non-Trader-so-who-cares?
However many hours it takes you to come up with suggestions that would benefit the Trader's guild, while being feasible to code, worth the coding time invested, etc, all that jazz
Good suggestions are good suggestions regardless of the source. And suggestions that would screw over a particular guild are not the suggestions of someone who cares about that guild, regardless of how many circles or hours they have logged
Apu
GERSTEINJ2
Re: Move Traders into the 21st century already
04/23/2011 05:44 AM CDT
<<I'm not in the habit of considering it a 'request from a trader player' if the trader hasn't been logged in in almost [redacted] and didn't break circle [redacted]. You may have played a trader in the past, but I would be hard pressed to consider you a Trader player.>>
basing our opinions on time we spend on log-ined characters? I suppose that would make me a barbclericwarmiemoonmagerangerbardempathnecromancerthieftraderpaladin commoner!
:-)
You've seen life through distorted eyes;You know you had to learn;The execution of your mind;You really had to turn;,the book is read,The end begins to show,The truth is out, the lies are old, But you don't want to know - Black Sabbath
basing our opinions on time we spend on log-ined characters? I suppose that would make me a barbclericwarmiemoonmagerangerbardempathnecromancerthieftraderpaladin commoner!
:-)
You've seen life through distorted eyes;You know you had to learn;The execution of your mind;You really had to turn;,the book is read,The end begins to show,The truth is out, the lies are old, But you don't want to know - Black Sabbath
CARDINALE01
Re: Move Traders into the 21st century already
04/23/2011 10:52 AM CDT
>>I'd say it was a pretty fair characterization.
"We've already discussed it internally and this is where we stand and our minds are not going to be changed," is not the same thing as not listening to players.
A game where the developers caved in to every thing every single person who played the game wanted would quickly become a very bad game.
"We've already discussed it internally and this is where we stand and our minds are not going to be changed," is not the same thing as not listening to players.
A game where the developers caved in to every thing every single person who played the game wanted would quickly become a very bad game.
NINEVAH1
BAKERK46
Re: Move Traders into the 21st century already
04/23/2011 04:21 PM CDT
No, I am not one of those everything is rosy, happy , joy , joy people...BUT I do have to say my trader IS my primary character, and I wouldn't want to see gem pouch selling go away. It's a nice change from the routes, and if everyone could do it, this would be taken away from us even more than when tied pouches began to hold 500 gems which resulted in pouch selling becoming more rare.
Also, I have to say I am one that is not disappointed in the trader guild, especially this year with the shops, POCs, appraising cambrinth and being able to tell the mana it holds, up'd bundle experience, up'd route experience. I'd say our Trader GMs have been working really hard. I USED to be a Warrior Mage primary, but I switched over to trader primary about a year ago, and some of the reasons I have stayed are because of all the great changes this year. So I'm gonna just say THANKS for all the stuff we have received. As for my complaint since this is the complaint folder..... stop complaining so much when we have received so much.
~Player of Crimsondae
Also, I have to say I am one that is not disappointed in the trader guild, especially this year with the shops, POCs, appraising cambrinth and being able to tell the mana it holds, up'd bundle experience, up'd route experience. I'd say our Trader GMs have been working really hard. I USED to be a Warrior Mage primary, but I switched over to trader primary about a year ago, and some of the reasons I have stayed are because of all the great changes this year. So I'm gonna just say THANKS for all the stuff we have received. As for my complaint since this is the complaint folder..... stop complaining so much when we have received so much.
~Player of Crimsondae
MOD-ZAIRYCHE
Re: Move Traders into the 21st century already
04/24/2011 03:40 AM CDT
A post was hidden.
I welcome you guys to voice your opinions but it is really important to remain constructive. Complaints can be conveyed without the snarkiness, and some of you guys are teetering over the edge here.
Zairyche
DragonRealms Board Monitor
If you have questions or comments, please email me at (Mod-Zairyche@play.net) or Senior Board Monitor Sidatura at (DR-
Sidatura@play.net) or Message Board Supervisor Annwyl (DR-
Annwyl@play.net).
I welcome you guys to voice your opinions but it is really important to remain constructive. Complaints can be conveyed without the snarkiness, and some of you guys are teetering over the edge here.
Zairyche
DragonRealms Board Monitor
If you have questions or comments, please email me at (Mod-Zairyche@play.net) or Senior Board Monitor Sidatura at (DR-
Sidatura@play.net) or Message Board Supervisor Annwyl (DR-
Annwyl@play.net).
ITIN
Re: Move Traders into the 21st century already
12/08/2013 08:02 PM CST
I have returned to the realms after a hiatus of many years.
I don't like the direction traders have taken in the least.
I was originally a ranger but gravitated towards a trader because I wasn't a big hunt and combat fan, so I hate having new, increased, combat reqs. To me it goes against everything a trader is. We're shippers sellers and shopkeepers, not hunters and battle mages. Time spent working combat means time away from the gem shop or my new personal shop and time off the routes. Not to mention we have no substantial combat abilities when do go out hunting.
Magic. I'm no finger waggler, see the argument above. I object the notion of using moon magic or any magic. We have an ability system already with speculates. Flesh that out but keep magic away.
As for the changes to trading experience system, I have to explore a bit but from reading the boards it doesn't sound pleasant.
Lets give them more combat and more magic to make traders like everybody else.
We're not like everybody else.
Give us more trading. Fix the commodities system that have been broken for ever. Bring out the critter trading, backroom dealings and smuggling, add contract trading options beyond outpost to outpost, set up a sea trade routes, financing options for all stores, etc. There are a lot of good ideas out there but to me magic and combat are not two of them.
On a positive note, it's extremely nice to actually have a personal shop, even if I don't have much of anything to sell in it. Also, the personal caravans for everyone is a nice bit of fluff.
Miser Yamaga
I don't like the direction traders have taken in the least.
I was originally a ranger but gravitated towards a trader because I wasn't a big hunt and combat fan, so I hate having new, increased, combat reqs. To me it goes against everything a trader is. We're shippers sellers and shopkeepers, not hunters and battle mages. Time spent working combat means time away from the gem shop or my new personal shop and time off the routes. Not to mention we have no substantial combat abilities when do go out hunting.
Magic. I'm no finger waggler, see the argument above. I object the notion of using moon magic or any magic. We have an ability system already with speculates. Flesh that out but keep magic away.
As for the changes to trading experience system, I have to explore a bit but from reading the boards it doesn't sound pleasant.
Lets give them more combat and more magic to make traders like everybody else.
We're not like everybody else.
Give us more trading. Fix the commodities system that have been broken for ever. Bring out the critter trading, backroom dealings and smuggling, add contract trading options beyond outpost to outpost, set up a sea trade routes, financing options for all stores, etc. There are a lot of good ideas out there but to me magic and combat are not two of them.
On a positive note, it's extremely nice to actually have a personal shop, even if I don't have much of anything to sell in it. Also, the personal caravans for everyone is a nice bit of fluff.
Miser Yamaga
BADGOPHER
Re: Move Traders into the 21st century already
12/08/2013 08:24 PM CST
Uh, dude, you just revived a thread from 2011.
RE: Magic
DR has limited resources. It eases and speeds development when all 'abilities' run through a core system rather than each GM hacking out something that is more or less unique and completely undocumented for each guild.
So it makes more sense for the game AS A WHOLE for traders to have a magic ability, than it does for every trader ability to run through some non-magic utility.
RE: Combat
Traders have skillsets. They were given requirements to reflect them. The lore requirements were...terrible. They needed, what, like 6 or 8 ranks of trading per circle? They still require a hefty amount of lore and a not-terrible amount of combat. But the guild requires traders to at least have combat proficiency so they can defend themselves.
You're still more than free to spend all your time out of combat, running stores, nothing remotely changes that.
RE: Magic
DR has limited resources. It eases and speeds development when all 'abilities' run through a core system rather than each GM hacking out something that is more or less unique and completely undocumented for each guild.
So it makes more sense for the game AS A WHOLE for traders to have a magic ability, than it does for every trader ability to run through some non-magic utility.
RE: Combat
Traders have skillsets. They were given requirements to reflect them. The lore requirements were...terrible. They needed, what, like 6 or 8 ranks of trading per circle? They still require a hefty amount of lore and a not-terrible amount of combat. But the guild requires traders to at least have combat proficiency so they can defend themselves.
You're still more than free to spend all your time out of combat, running stores, nothing remotely changes that.
JSNOWLING
Contract Work
12/11/2013 05:46 PM CST
Hi. I've found over the last few months i'm making more money crafting than I ever did contract work. How about instead of carrying coins around in a belt for contracts you deliver and depending on how fast you deliver from A to B will depend on the payment you receive. Maybe paying your wages direct to your bank or receiving the payment after finishing your contracts.Just a thought. I love the trader guild even though there is probably tons of stuff I still haven't found out about it.
Cheers From Player behind Petrius.
Cheers From Player behind Petrius.
GRANTJ47
Re: Contract Work
12/11/2013 07:41 PM CST
JSNOWLING, I hate you right now. After I finish helping with magic 3.1 testing, I'm now going to have to go and see what I can do with contract trading vs crafting. Both in terms of experience and money. Its not that I mind the testing(love that part actually), but that you are now going to put me behind my caravan for the first time in more than 2 years. I'm not sure where its even stabled.
Abison/Rystien
Abison/Rystien
