I've been working my trade as of late and have come to some ideas I think would be great for our guild. While some may be "out there" on the possibility scale I'm still going to post them just so people can brainstorm ideas from them. I'd like to see the caravan system expanded to include more than just running routes and having little tricks it can do like drag a dead body around, because I, for one, believe it has so much more potential. I'm not sure if any of these possibilities have been discussed in the past so forgive me if I tread on old ground.

I think as a trader, one should be able to take the caravan out as a means of more than just running routes. A caravan could follow the trader around in combat, and it should. This alone opens them up for much more in the way of usefulness. They already provide bundling rope and gem pouches... so why not expand on that and have them loot items for you and create bundles and pouches for you to sell. I can so see myself commanding the caravan to loot items via the command system (command caravan to loot all\gems\skins\boxes) and having it gather up items for me. Being a trader also allows you to sell loot from creature drops--which is great the first few circles--so why not have the caravan store up loot (to a capacity) and then the trader can go sell it at the pawn shop for trading experience as a viable method of training? Why not then too, could a trader not opt to have instead of a flat bed caravan for looting... a caravan that specializes in holding pots of herbs to heal themselves with out in combat? Heck or a little of both. It could work in such a way that the caravan would keep tally of what herbs are used and the trader is charged when they return the caravan. These additions could open up at certain circles obviously.

Also, there could be a skill that IF your caravan has an interior, and you're in combat, your caravan workers could throw you into the interior of the wagon and ride off a few rooms as a method of escaping certain death from time to time--much like a warrior mage familiar. It's reasonable to think that a caravan driver would jump to action if they saw you getting slaughtered rather than just leave you to die. Or if you die, the caravan could load you corpse and weapons (if any) up and ferry you off to the closest city.

These are just my thoughts. I'd love to know what you guys think. Maybe even a gm could chime in :p

<<Just a note, this can already be done once you get a caravan box, I believe. You could just lead your caravan into combat and stow the loot in the box. You could also store remedies in there and grab what you need.

I think they meant it would do it automatically. E.g. you could give a command like TELL CARAVAN TO LOOT and it would gather up any loot on the ground and when you next ASK CARAVAN FOR LOOT it gives it to you in tied bundle and pouch format.

<< The only mental issue I'm having is this: would a real merchant really bring his or her caravan into combat? What would that look like? You set up camp somewhere and tell your employees you're going to engage the hostile wildlife? If the messaging is done right, it might work, but at first glance it sounds a little far-fetched. I'd have to imagine it as a hunting party rather than a merchant party.

I agree bringing your caravan into combat seems a little off the wall, since they're not just a cart and wagon but a whole set of them complete with a crew of employees. (See the trade minister speech when purchasing your interior for the confirmation of this.) That said, caravans already have this ability with SPECULATE SPOOK, which is meant as a defense against random engagement on your routes but works just as easily in combat. This ability would be a wound-less upgrade of that ability that triggers automatically.

The other caveat here for both suggestions is that caravans are a huge pain to get out to any hunting area, assuming you can even get it into one at all. I'd prefer any combat development to not be tied to caravans, personally, primarily for this reason alone.

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<< (obviously not all)

I beg to differ. The speed at which caravans move is the pain. Unless the caravan is right beside the caravan stable that you hunt in then it would mean travelling with your caravan for ages just to make use of it in combat. And not just getting it there, but getting it back. E.g. my caravan is currently stabled in Crossing so that I can use it's storage for all of my crafting supplies there, but I hunt in Boar Clan so if I wanted to make use of any of its abilities then I would have to spend at least 45 minutes of travel one way just to get there and another 45 minutes at least just to get it back. And even if I hunted in Zoluren where it's stabled it would take 5 to 10 minutes to get to most hunting grounds, more if it was across the ferry.

I really, really don't want any combat abilities tied to a caravan at all.

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<<The idea of a caravan accompanying you to a hunting area isn't necessarily locked down to be your own custom caravan. Caravans can be rented at just about any outpost from what I recall (it's been a few years since I've played a trader so excuse my ignorance if this has changed.)

It is not possible to do this unless you keep the storage box empty. The custom caravan is still owned by the guild and is considered to be rented until you return it to the guild, even when stabled. It cannot be returned to the guild if there are any items in or on it, and it's not possible to rent anything else while it still rented.

<<There's also nothing forcing you to take a caravan with you, it's just a means to add more depth to the traders guild.

It's an ability no one would use because the caravan requirement would be too restrictive. Indoor hunting areas, impassible athletics barriers, and location are all factors that contribute to it being a horrible thing to tie combat abilities to a caravan. I'd rather development go towards something that people would actually make use of.

<<And assuming we ever DID get any kind of combat related skill, if it was linked to a caravan would it be such a bad thing?

Yes, for the reasons explained.

I'm all for expanding what a caravan can do, but not into combat. The magic system, which is what most of our handful of speculates are being converted to, is where abilities like that belong and I'm excited about the abilities that have been listed as planned: https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Category:Planned_Trader_Spells

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>>It's an ability no one would use because the caravan requirement would be too restrictive. Indoor hunting areas, impassible athletics barriers, and location are all factors that contribute to it being a horrible thing to tie combat abilities to a caravan. I'd rather development go towards something that people would actually make use of.

I can understand that and see how it would be a pain. However, it's not different really than a cleric trying to find undead if they want to have an easy boost to their devotion, or an empath trying to find constructs/undead to hunt. Traders are not a hunting guild that focuses on mauling stuff to death like barbarians. They SHOULD have access to all hunting areas without restriction (non-corporeal entities and blessed weapons being the exception). I'd be ok with picking and choosing where my caravan would go hunt with me.

>>The first idea of a loot manager would work better as a hireling type of ability anyway. You could HIRE ESQUIRE or something and it would follow you around (quicker than other hirelings do) and loot stuff for you. Perhaps even provide some minor combat support such as dragging you if you get stunned or knocked down.


That's a great idea! though, both work equally well for me. It's a means to an end that both end in the same place.

>>It is very different than that. Caravans are just way too mechanically slow and cumbersome to have any place in combat. Period.

I'm not sure it's that black or white. Everyone has a different idea of what a "trader" entails. I'm not saying you're wrong, just not agreeing that you're right entirely. I wouldn't mind the hireling doing the work, but like I mentioned I also don't mind the idea of a caravan, it really comes down to personal taste.

Keeping on the subject of trader improvements, what would you like to see added to the guild in the form of skills or abilities?

>>Spend a week taking 10 seconds every time you move from room to room whenever you head to your hunting area and again when you head back and get back to me if you still think it's a good idea. No cheating and starting from the nearest major city. Do it from wherever you last left your caravan. E.g. you're in Shard and want to hunt nearby but last used your caravan in Crossing because that's where you do routes? First travel up to Crossing like you would have to do to collect your caravan and then slowly travel back down to Shard 10 seconds at a time. Then slowly walk back up to Crossing so you can do your routes again when you're done hunting. It gets old. Fast.


Ahhaaa, but see this is where it could be different. I'm talking about working trading through looting items in combat and turning them in, using your caravan to haul big loads of loot for you thus.. trading the loot for money and experience. If a trader were to take that method then they wouldn't have to be running trade routes and thus... the caravan would be close to your hunting area since you hunt in the same places.

>>Oh, and if hirelings could be updated to have follow mechanics like pigs and rats instead of follow mechanics like caravans that would be groovy.

I havn't used hirelings yet but if they're like caravans it'd be nice. Heck if caravans followed the same mechanics it'd be nice!

I agree that caravans are currently quite cumbersome and would be difficult to get into combat. Perhaps in renting a hunting party instead of a merchant caravan, there might be some leeway mechanically. For example, maybe it could use the new "pig/rat" mechanics to follow, or perhaps even respond to a SUMMON command (less realistic but gets around a lot of playability issues).

>>This is no different than what exists now. We pick up the item ourselves and sell it to the appraiser for money and trading experience. Adding a caravan just adds middleman bloat to it.

Honestly I think having a storage box available could be a big help to inexperienced traders, who would quickly get burdened.

All that said, I'm not 100% married to the idea of involving a caravan in everything a trader does. I like the idea but I'd want to situate everything into the suite of magic and non-magic abilities, make sure everything is balanced. But given that Traders are magic tert and becoming a combat guild, it's nice to think about possibilities for non-magical additions to combat.


- Navesi