Well alot of titles are in categories they shouldnt be

Scouting and astrology categories should not even exist

Move them all to moon mage or ranger wouldnt take more then 5 minutes time prolly.


Don't fear the dark, Fear what hides in it.

>Thieves and rangers, on the other hand, need only ever really train those two stats with a dash of stamina and they'll never have to worry about making a sacrifice in terms of their abilities. <

This is horrifyingly wrong and I feel sorry for the Thief who does it.

-Z

i agree. i prefer more balance, although i do intend on upping agil and reflex as high as possible after i get all the other stats to 50. <long term goal>

Strength : 45 Reflex : 50
Agility : 50 Charisma : 41
Discipline : 45 Wisdom : 40
Intelligence : 40 Stamina : 43
Favors: 10
Concentration: 555 Max: 555
TDPs: 15
Encumbrance: None


<<If nothing else, maybe some Magic Using guilds will now feel the joys of "You cannot steal here.", at least for a while.--Solomon>>

>>This is horrifyingly wrong and I feel sorry for the Thief who does it.

I disagree. What does a thief lose out on with sub 40 strength? Backstab is still the one hit kill at 35 strength as it would be at 40 or 45. Likewise - charisma, while nice to help with confidence, isn't as critical as it is to other guilds.

Point being - if I neglect strength I lose out on some serious power from my dancers and berserks. If I neglect wisdom and intelligence its basically gimping my BMR. No charisma? Forget about roars. I just don't see the same parallels with thieves or rangers.

Not that I'm complaining here. I'm all for strength playing a larger role in melee hits and the power behind a bow. I'm all for the added uses of charisma as well - I just know a lot of thieves who feel there is little use for either of them. Just as Barbarians had little practical use for charisma prior to the latest roars being released.

-Galren Moonskin

Tusfaov calmly says, "Excellent. The inner fire burns bright within your chest, Galren. You have achieved a new level of enlightenment."
!>You hear the distant echo of a savage Horde screaming in barbaric approval of your deeds.

>If I neglect wisdom and intelligence its basically gimping my BMR.<

And perception. And box popping.

And if you neglect Discipline, the probably #1 most important stat for a Thief, you are crazy.

Strength isn't essential, nor did I say it was.

-Z

Moon Mages.

INT: 99
WIS: 99
DIS: 99
CHA: 20 (wanna stun with MB not unconscious)
STR: 15
STA: 20

<<which makes them so easy to stab if you get to melee on 'em. :-)>>

Yeah, but its a moon mage. You're going to 1 shot them anyway.

Back on the subject, I've got 30 strength and charisma for maxed out confidence and min RT with LEs (I believe strength is a bit high) and I don't plan on touching them again. Of course, with the way my stats are I should (and wish) be a human. But my 12 year old self though, "Ooo lion people!" and picked prydaen.

>Charisma effects confidence drift, for example, as well as confidence gain, but I think it would be made much more valuable if (as an example) charisma ctually determined your confidence cap, so gimping your CHA would actually negatively affect your confidence level and not just force you to BS a few more enemies to regain lost confidence.<

... It does.

-Z

Thread got hijacked.

I initially declared that strength requirements for thief titles is silly since strength is not thiefly and completely useless to thieves at high levels.

I also said that reflex and agility are far more suited to thieves and would make 110% more sense as requirements for high level titles instead of Strength and Charisma, which sound like better reqs for Barbarian titles.

Discuss.

>I initially declared that strength requirements for thief titles is silly since strength is not thiefly and completely useless to thieves at high levels.

>I also said that reflex and agility are far more suited to thieves and would make 110% more sense as requirements for high level titles instead of Strength and Charisma, which sound like better reqs for Barbarian titles.

Generally I agree, as in the case with the title Assassin. However, I do not think that thief titles should be devoid of high strength and charisma requirements, let alone other stats. There SHOULD be titles for the rough and tough type of thief that have strength reqs as well as titles for the persuasive and or commanding thief that require charisma. Overall, I feel that titles in this Skill Based system should have reqs that better fit what a title actually means. Currently I feel a lot of the titles out there are just given very high reqs to make them "Badge of Honor" titles for the higher tiered players. I feel an Accomplishment based system would be much more suited for that role.


Elusive
mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur

I do however think some new stats should be included in out abilities like galren is basically saying

Thats why i asked for charisma to be used in new khri forumla. Maybe adding other stats like strength wisdom or reflex to whatever new system we get when we get it.

I dont nerf any stat even charisma is mid 30s for me which is by far my lowest but not terrible considering its very limited usage.


Don't fear the dark, Fear what hides in it.

>>... It does.

Well, there you go. It's often difficult for me to draw accurate analogies without having access to the game systems.

I'm sure that as GMs you realize the extent to which players are gimping themselves much moreso than players do.

From a player end, however, I simply don't see Moon Mages saying "do not neglect stamina unless you want CrS and DO to be completely useless" like Barbs say "train charisma or roars are useless, train discipline or dances are useless, train physicals or berserks are useless." Another example being that charisma directly affects (apparently) a passive bonus that Thieves get, which isn't the same as saying "Khri sane, khri safe and khri snipe are all directly powered by charisma while sidestep and spar are directly powered by stamina."

>> passive bonus

Maybe I'm misunderstanding you here, but I wouldn't call the confidence part of the Thief bonus passive. Let me explain it now to the best of my meager abilities. (ie, gnaw on some rock salt before reading the following, it's quite possible I've completely misunderstood the confidence system).

Thieves accrue confidence by successfully stealth hunting. Confidence always drifts to neutral, so if a Thief hasn't been stealth-hunting in a while, then he's most likely not receiving any sort of confidence bonus.

Now, charisma affects confidence in a number of ways:

Without 30 charisma, a Thief cannot attain the highest level of confidence. So with low charisma, you are effectively capping your bonus at a sub-optimal level.

Additionally, low charisma means that the confidence drifts to neutral more quickly than with high charisma.

Also, the word is that with high enough charisma, your base level of confidence will be above neutral, though I haven't heard of anyone gaining this benefit as yet.

Also, I vaguely recall hearing that higher Charisma causes confidence to drift up from 'bad' more quickly. I think high charisma also lets Thieves gain confidence when hunting more quickly.

So confidence isn't a passive bonus. It's always drifting toward neutral unless you're out there actively trying moving it upward.

Also, I'm pretty sure confidence stays with a Thief even out of town, where the bonus from reputation only applies in town, in a given province. The confidence bonus travels with the Thief everywhere.

The Thief bonus used to be a force to be reckoned with: according to Gonk at the first Thief meeting, it was 50%. I was very sad when it was broken into two parts and nerfed to be within global caps.

So a Thief who neglects charisma these days is, I think, basically denying themselves of big hunk of the Thief bonus. But whatever floats your boat I guess. I've been really impressed with the confidence bonus at 29 charisma. There is a marked difference.

---

HR>You exclaim to the dog, "You wagtail! Die!"

to be honest, I'd rather the assassin title be a "quest" type of title. You should actually have to assassinate something <via backstab>. And live to tell about it. :-) sort of like the task system, except given by a thief guild leader to someone say, at 100, or 125th circle <around the time your skills would be commessurate with the possibility>.


<<If nothing else, maybe some Magic Using guilds will now feel the joys of "You cannot steal here.", at least for a while.--Solomon>>

>if you really really really want the title, the requirement could be 1000 ranks in sewing and you'd still want to get it.

>if you want it, suck it up and get the required "whatever" otherwise stop complaining.

...because constructive criticism never lead to anything positive in DR?

>I find both to be not so useful because all they do is add effective ranks in skills. I would rather train more evasion shield and parry. 5 ranks in each would be a larger bonus for my character then 1 reflex past 40. Why waste tdps to learn lessons basically. I train lessons to earn tdps.

I know you've made it to very high circles so you must have your ways, but IMO agil/reflex are still very valuable because of "sweet spots" while training. Without the beneifts of Agil/Reflex moving up the creature ladder when you're on the borderline will be hell, at least most people will be very frustrated and have very high risks of death. Having bonuses from stats stretches your flexibility and make critter ladder climbing much easier.

---

Reene: It's like you started writing something sane then had a seizure of some kind half way through.

XXX points at a bare spot that leads southeast into the deep wilderness.
XXX whispers to you, "OOC: type g spot for leucros."

Valcer you make a perfectly valid statement and for probably 90% of the folks who play your words are applicable however to those who PvP, well that is an entirely different story.

PvP is about going to the bleeding edge, maximizing every little thing you can to gain the edge and get that killing blow first.

I realize however that this game is not balanced/developed for PvP and it will never be the primary focus of the developers. That is fine. There will always be fighting that occurs against GMPCs however and even then, that extra 10 agility over strength will be infinitely more useful.


-Galren Moonskin

Tusfaov calmly says, "Excellent. The inner fire burns bright within your chest, Galren. You have achieved a new level of enlightenment."
!>You hear the distant echo of a savage Horde screaming in barbaric approval of your deeds.

I'll just say I wouldn't train strength to backstab better...

>>In PVP, Reflex/Agility/Stamina > ALL

I'd say Reflex/Discipline > ALL

>>In PVP, Reflex/Agility/Stamina > ALL

I say Reflex/Agility/Discipline > All


Vinjince

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"There are five possible operations for any army. If you can fight, fight; if you cannot fight, defend; if you cannot defend, flee; if you cannot flee, surrender; if you cannot surrender, die."

- Sima Yi