Previous
<< Likely just a typo we didn’t catch.
Yes, looks like it.
I have another one though, not sure if it's supposed to be like that? I'm thinking maybe something Kalag says, something something ..
<c>ask kala about test choose
"Stop wasting my time."
DEFOL
DR-JAVAC
Re: New Khri in Test
06/20/2018 01:07 PM CDT
Is it just Kalag? Do other guildleaders have the same issue?
Javac
That one guy
If you have questions or comments in regard to this post please email me at DR-JAVAC@play.net.
Javac
That one guy
If you have questions or comments in regard to this post please email me at DR-JAVAC@play.net.
THESAVAGE
Re: New Khri in Test
06/20/2018 01:10 PM CDT
To be fair, there is the prediction meditation, but I seem to remember that interacting oddly with different immobilizing/stunning spells, not consistantly. Given the impending changes I will definitely test it across the spectrum, though.
DEFOL
Re: New Khri in Test
06/20/2018 01:15 PM CDT
<< Do other guildleaders have the same issue?
Exact same issues showing up in haven (responds without the "say/sign" prefix, twice signs, backslash in the end):
ask crow about Liberation choose
"What?"
>ask crow about khri focus
Crow pauses for a moment and signs,Crow pauses for a moment and signs, "What?"
>ask crow about insight
Crow pauses for a moment and signs, "Insight allows us to be better at those things outside our normal urban comfort zone, things that involve the outdoors. It will also improve your ability to tend any scrapes and nicks you pick up in your adventures."\
Exact same issues showing up in haven (responds without the "say/sign" prefix, twice signs, backslash in the end):
ask crow about Liberation choose
"What?"
>ask crow about khri focus
Crow pauses for a moment and signs,Crow pauses for a moment and signs, "What?"
>ask crow about insight
Crow pauses for a moment and signs, "Insight allows us to be better at those things outside our normal urban comfort zone, things that involve the outdoors. It will also improve your ability to tend any scrapes and nicks you pick up in your adventures."\
FUTILITY
Re: New Khri in Test
06/20/2018 01:17 PM CDT
>>I can’t speak to Halo, but I think it’s more likely that nerve damage will change than EE’s effect will change.
Something to keep in mind here, Javac: not a single one of us is arguing that there need to be fewer ways to break Stealth and defend against Stealth (as it is both defense and offense). EE and Halo come up and come up frequently because there do not appear to be reasonable checks in place against pulsing cyclics. Wards do effectively nothing against them, which is problematic, and EE in particular gets a lot of hate because it does nerve damage -- which is damage -- without requiring TM. Which, as Barbarians know from asking for their own version of EE -- Debilitation that does damage -- is a no-no.
The uneven application of standards is what rankles the most. If a workaround is good for the goose it must be good for the gander.
>>Whirlwind comes to mind as well. And Barbs have an anti-immobilize ability to counter Terrify.
Whirlwind will hit anything engaged at melee regardless of whether it's hidden or not -- provided you can overcome the STACKING to-hit penalties from Whirlwind itself (which is incredibly steep for a purported training tool) and Stealth -- but it will not reveal the hidden victim of those attacks. To wit, the reason whirlwind does this is because it is intended as a training tool and implemented when armadillos (which hide) were the top critter.
I believe your implied anti-immobilization ability is Meditate Prediction. Which is a 3-slot ability that does not remove any of the status effects, it simply moves the Barbarian one room away. Once. It is comically overpriced when you compare it to EE at 2 slots. It is still comically overpriced compared to Halo, which sanely enough does actually cost 3 slots.
Again, we are told again and again there are standards and forced to accept again and again that they only appear to apply to Barbarians. Your argument isn't without its merits, but it misses the points we've been making.
Something to keep in mind here, Javac: not a single one of us is arguing that there need to be fewer ways to break Stealth and defend against Stealth (as it is both defense and offense). EE and Halo come up and come up frequently because there do not appear to be reasonable checks in place against pulsing cyclics. Wards do effectively nothing against them, which is problematic, and EE in particular gets a lot of hate because it does nerve damage -- which is damage -- without requiring TM. Which, as Barbarians know from asking for their own version of EE -- Debilitation that does damage -- is a no-no.
The uneven application of standards is what rankles the most. If a workaround is good for the goose it must be good for the gander.
>>Whirlwind comes to mind as well. And Barbs have an anti-immobilize ability to counter Terrify.
Whirlwind will hit anything engaged at melee regardless of whether it's hidden or not -- provided you can overcome the STACKING to-hit penalties from Whirlwind itself (which is incredibly steep for a purported training tool) and Stealth -- but it will not reveal the hidden victim of those attacks. To wit, the reason whirlwind does this is because it is intended as a training tool and implemented when armadillos (which hide) were the top critter.
I believe your implied anti-immobilization ability is Meditate Prediction. Which is a 3-slot ability that does not remove any of the status effects, it simply moves the Barbarian one room away. Once. It is comically overpriced when you compare it to EE at 2 slots. It is still comically overpriced compared to Halo, which sanely enough does actually cost 3 slots.
Again, we are told again and again there are standards and forced to accept again and again that they only appear to apply to Barbarians. Your argument isn't without its merits, but it misses the points we've been making.
MAJORZ
Re: New Khri in Test
06/20/2018 02:44 PM CDT
>Is it just Kalag? Do other guildleaders have the same issue?
Saishla smirks and says,Saishla smirks and says, "Quit mumbling and say something that makes sense!"
Shard also on the double speak. No khri list.
Majorly, The Locksmith.
Saishla smirks and says,Saishla smirks and says, "Quit mumbling and say something that makes sense!"
Shard also on the double speak. No khri list.
Majorly, The Locksmith.
CASHAV3
Re: New Khri in Test
06/20/2018 02:47 PM CDT
Why will Warding be 80% of Utility?
When I train magics I lock everything, although I was granfathered into 3.0 so there is a difference in my 3 current magics, it seems like everything would be pretty even if I had started all three from zero.
BUNTY
Re: New Khri in Test
06/20/2018 03:43 PM CDT
Is this a bug?
The following skills are currently under the influence of a modifier:
--1 Warding
I stopped all khri and it was still there. Got myself killed and it's still there.
The following skills are currently under the influence of a modifier:
--1 Warding
I stopped all khri and it was still there. Got myself killed and it's still there.
HOLSCHAUERK
Re: New Khri in Test
06/20/2018 04:04 PM CDT
Good question, I would have thought an average of your utility, debilitation, and augmentation would more accurately reflect "how many ranks you would have had" if you were always able to train warding. Possibly easier to code? Not sure why 100% of utility wouldn't be acceptable.
BENNETTJ13
Re: New Khri in Test
06/20/2018 04:18 PM CDT
Better than normal grandfathering.
Monster Elec
You hear the distant echo of a savage Horde snarling in barbaric disapproval of your deeds.
Monster Elec
You hear the distant echo of a savage Horde snarling in barbaric disapproval of your deeds.
BUNTY
Re: New Khri in Test
06/20/2018 04:46 PM CDT
Typo:
From the Potence tree, you know the following khri: Focus (Aug), Prowess (Debil), Sight (Aug), Calm (Util), Steady (Aug), Eliminate (Debil), Serenity (Ward), Sagacity (Ward), Terrify (Debil), Endure (Aug/Util), Intimidate (Debil), Fright (Aug)
Should be Potency
From the Potence tree, you know the following khri: Focus (Aug), Prowess (Debil), Sight (Aug), Calm (Util), Steady (Aug), Eliminate (Debil), Serenity (Ward), Sagacity (Ward), Terrify (Debil), Endure (Aug/Util), Intimidate (Debil), Fright (Aug)
Should be Potency
DR-JAVAC
Re: New Khri in Test
06/20/2018 05:40 PM CDT
>Is this a bug?
Probably. I’d have to investigate. Trying logging out and back in?
>Should be Potency
There are other IG references to it as the Potence tree, which is why I went that way.
Javac
That one guy
If you have questions or comments in regard to this post please email me at DR-JAVAC@play.net.
Probably. I’d have to investigate. Trying logging out and back in?
>Should be Potency
There are other IG references to it as the Potence tree, which is why I went that way.
Javac
That one guy
If you have questions or comments in regard to this post please email me at DR-JAVAC@play.net.
DR-JAVAC
Re: New Khri in Test
06/20/2018 07:08 PM CDT
>Likely just a typo we didn’t catch.
Both of those typos should be fixed now.
I'm going to work on a way to see Khri you don't know.
Javac
That one guy
If you have questions or comments in regard to this post please email me at DR-JAVAC@play.net.
Both of those typos should be fixed now.
I'm going to work on a way to see Khri you don't know.
Javac
That one guy
If you have questions or comments in regard to this post please email me at DR-JAVAC@play.net.
ZEYPHAN
Re: New Khri in Test
06/20/2018 08:15 PM CDT
The effects of Fright seem to persist when the khri ends prematurely either through concentration loss or KHRI STOP.
Is it intended for Intimidate to randomly drop when using ranged attacks? That seems to negate the purpose of the ability.
Is it possible for Strike to boost your offhand weapon if you are holding a ranged weapon in your right hand? Currently only works if the right hand has no weapon at all.
Could Hasten be changed to always reduce roundtime instead of being random? It would make it much more useful.
Why is Flight Aug/Ward? I'm assuming the warding portion is the toss-back effect from speed, but shouldn't it be Aug/Ward/Util for the athletics boost, toss-back, and balance repair?
Flight seems overpriced at three slots. The toss-back feature is pretty niche. I'm surprised that warranted an extra slot. Two seems more reasonable to me personally.
Now that all guild leaders teach all khri maybe the player khri teaching mechanics could be used to teach the ambushes instead.
Asking a guild leader about guile and credence yield the same speech:
>ask dwill about guile
>Dwillig smirks and says, "It's not always in your best interests to keep your movements unseen, and this particular meditation will make noticeable every minor motion you make. If you are sufficiently charming with your motions, and keep the focus of whatever is engaged with you, then your foes will have a harder time paying attention to whatever strikes you decide to land against them."
>ask dwill about credence
>Dwillig smirks and says, "It's not always in your best interests to keep your movements unseen, and this particular meditation will make noticeable every minor motion you make. If you are sufficiently charming with your motions, and keep the focus of whatever is engaged with you, then your foes will have a harder time paying attention to whatever strikes you decide to land against them."
~Engineering Master Ascot Ryuzzaki, Tinkerer of Elanthia
Is it intended for Intimidate to randomly drop when using ranged attacks? That seems to negate the purpose of the ability.
Is it possible for Strike to boost your offhand weapon if you are holding a ranged weapon in your right hand? Currently only works if the right hand has no weapon at all.
Could Hasten be changed to always reduce roundtime instead of being random? It would make it much more useful.
Why is Flight Aug/Ward? I'm assuming the warding portion is the toss-back effect from speed, but shouldn't it be Aug/Ward/Util for the athletics boost, toss-back, and balance repair?
Flight seems overpriced at three slots. The toss-back feature is pretty niche. I'm surprised that warranted an extra slot. Two seems more reasonable to me personally.
Now that all guild leaders teach all khri maybe the player khri teaching mechanics could be used to teach the ambushes instead.
Asking a guild leader about guile and credence yield the same speech:
>ask dwill about guile
>Dwillig smirks and says, "It's not always in your best interests to keep your movements unseen, and this particular meditation will make noticeable every minor motion you make. If you are sufficiently charming with your motions, and keep the focus of whatever is engaged with you, then your foes will have a harder time paying attention to whatever strikes you decide to land against them."
>ask dwill about credence
>Dwillig smirks and says, "It's not always in your best interests to keep your movements unseen, and this particular meditation will make noticeable every minor motion you make. If you are sufficiently charming with your motions, and keep the focus of whatever is engaged with you, then your foes will have a harder time paying attention to whatever strikes you decide to land against them."
~Engineering Master Ascot Ryuzzaki, Tinkerer of Elanthia
SAFETY
DR-JAVAC
Re: New Khri in Test
06/21/2018 08:06 AM CDT
I'm told Test characters were refreshed.
Javac
That one guy
If you have questions or comments in regard to this post please email me at DR-JAVAC@play.net.
Javac
That one guy
If you have questions or comments in regard to this post please email me at DR-JAVAC@play.net.
BENNETTJ13
Re: New Khri in Test
06/21/2018 11:05 AM CDT
Hasten being a flat decrease would be nice. “Everyone and then” just isn’t feasible. Or maybe let it scale? Once you have so much skill you get it all the time? Seems silly to be a master of my body and be able to do all these amazing things... and not be able to control that.
Monster Elec
You hear the distant echo of a savage Horde snarling in barbaric disapproval of your deeds.
Monster Elec
You hear the distant echo of a savage Horde snarling in barbaric disapproval of your deeds.
BENNETTJ13
Re: New Khri in Test
06/21/2018 12:32 PM CDT
Stupid phone... “every once and a while”
Monster Elec
You hear the distant echo of a savage Horde snarling in barbaric disapproval of your deeds.
Monster Elec
You hear the distant echo of a savage Horde snarling in barbaric disapproval of your deeds.
DR-JAVAC
Re: New Khri in Test
06/21/2018 01:02 PM CDT
I appreciate you guys offering suggestions to improve existing Khri, but this thread is not the place for them. Functional modifications to abilities require the proposal->approval cycle, and aren’t something I can do in the context of the stuff I already put in test. Please keep this thread about issues you’ve found testing.
Javac
That one guy
If you have questions or comments in regard to this post please email me at DR-JAVAC@play.net.
Javac
That one guy
If you have questions or comments in regard to this post please email me at DR-JAVAC@play.net.
NOTANECRO
Re: New Khri in Test
06/21/2018 02:15 PM CDT
Khri Evanesence was fading back into view right away. This seemed broken..
Stealth mechanics cause issues for casters trying to target you. If Evanescence works and doesn't fade back in to view immediately, it can be super fun in a duel to be popping into hiding every second or two.
Some of the new khri seem to expire quickly. In line with Khri Sag - is this intended?
Laughable combat log instant spam -
The shimmering globe of blue fire surrounding you flares brightly! (right into my trap! Your spell is useless here!)
The shimmering globe of blue fire suddenly extinguishes. (okay :( )
You get a startling sensation, as some sixth sense barely warns you of an assault by Jhien! (normal against VIVI?)
You notice Jhien direct an insidiuous assault at Zharyn from hiding. (Okay, you already told me. Perc passed then?)
You alert others of Jhien's attempted stealthy assault! (More Perc?)
The pain triggers your reflex to slip into the shadows. (Does this mean he hit me and I am supposed to be hidden?)
You suddenly sense that your defenses have been beaten, and move to minimize the damage. (Khri Sag?)
You jerk involuntarily you feel a light slash wound open up on your back.
You are lightly stunned!
Credence, Terrify didn't hit or last long against someone slightly higher than me....
....More debuffs. Would love to know if these have diminishing returns that overlap?
You feel like Jhien is fairly distracted by your movements.
You feel like an immense dirt construct is fairly distracted by your movements.
You feel like an arisen wyvern zombie is fairly distracted by your movements.
It doesn't seem like Jhien is very impressed by your movements.
An immense dirt construct suddenly looks rather passive.
An arisen wyvern zombie suddenly looks rather passive.
You feel like your powerful presence has gotten the better of an immense dirt construct.
You feel like your powerful presence has gotten the better of an arisen wyvern zombie.
You project your voice quietly towards an arisen wyvern zombie, but the whispers seem to have no effect on it.
An immense dirt construct is perfectly motionless, as if the force that drives it has been temporarily cut off.
An arisen wyvern zombie seems poised to attack, but some force restrains it.
Warding debuff?
The following skills are currently under the influence of a modifier:
+119 Bow
+166 Crossbow
+172 Light Thrown
+170 Heavy Thrown
+184 Brawling
--1 Warding
+239 Evasion
+213 Tactics
Looking at the logs, it looks like my stats got reset again today, so my charisma was 65 and now 95 like I thought. Will need to retest some debuffs.
Stealth mechanics cause issues for casters trying to target you. If Evanescence works and doesn't fade back in to view immediately, it can be super fun in a duel to be popping into hiding every second or two.
Some of the new khri seem to expire quickly. In line with Khri Sag - is this intended?
Laughable combat log instant spam -
The shimmering globe of blue fire surrounding you flares brightly! (right into my trap! Your spell is useless here!)
The shimmering globe of blue fire suddenly extinguishes. (okay :( )
You get a startling sensation, as some sixth sense barely warns you of an assault by Jhien! (normal against VIVI?)
You notice Jhien direct an insidiuous assault at Zharyn from hiding. (Okay, you already told me. Perc passed then?)
You alert others of Jhien's attempted stealthy assault! (More Perc?)
The pain triggers your reflex to slip into the shadows. (Does this mean he hit me and I am supposed to be hidden?)
You suddenly sense that your defenses have been beaten, and move to minimize the damage. (Khri Sag?)
You jerk involuntarily you feel a light slash wound open up on your back.
You are lightly stunned!
Credence, Terrify didn't hit or last long against someone slightly higher than me....
....More debuffs. Would love to know if these have diminishing returns that overlap?
You feel like Jhien is fairly distracted by your movements.
You feel like an immense dirt construct is fairly distracted by your movements.
You feel like an arisen wyvern zombie is fairly distracted by your movements.
It doesn't seem like Jhien is very impressed by your movements.
An immense dirt construct suddenly looks rather passive.
An arisen wyvern zombie suddenly looks rather passive.
You feel like your powerful presence has gotten the better of an immense dirt construct.
You feel like your powerful presence has gotten the better of an arisen wyvern zombie.
You project your voice quietly towards an arisen wyvern zombie, but the whispers seem to have no effect on it.
An immense dirt construct is perfectly motionless, as if the force that drives it has been temporarily cut off.
An arisen wyvern zombie seems poised to attack, but some force restrains it.
Warding debuff?
The following skills are currently under the influence of a modifier:
+119 Bow
+166 Crossbow
+172 Light Thrown
+170 Heavy Thrown
+184 Brawling
--1 Warding
+239 Evasion
+213 Tactics
Looking at the logs, it looks like my stats got reset again today, so my charisma was 65 and now 95 like I thought. Will need to retest some debuffs.
NOTANECRO
Re: New Khri in Test
06/21/2018 02:19 PM CDT
Can we add some commands to auto-learn ambushes? Running around to get them, only to lose them via a reset on test kind of slows testing down.
(And can we add Kalag the Black on test for old times sake? ;P )
NOTANECRO
Re: New Khri in Test
06/21/2018 02:32 PM CDT
Pronoun seems to be missing? What is "it" ? The zombie? The mudman? The Jhien?
An immense dirt construct suddenly looks rather passive.
>
It shrugs off your efforts, unafraid of the living.
Jhien falters, but refuses to turn away.
Jhien assesses his combat situation.
>
It shrugs off your efforts, unafraid of the living.
Jhien falters, but refuses to turn away.
It doesn't seem like an arisen wyvern zombie is very impressed by your movements.
>
You feel like an arisen wyvern zombie is fairly distracted by your movements.
>
It shrugs off your efforts, unafraid of the living.
>
It doesn't seem like an arisen wyvern zombie is very intimidated by you.
An immense dirt construct suddenly looks rather passive.
>
It shrugs off your efforts, unafraid of the living.
Jhien falters, but refuses to turn away.
Jhien assesses his combat situation.
>
It shrugs off your efforts, unafraid of the living.
Jhien falters, but refuses to turn away.
It doesn't seem like an arisen wyvern zombie is very impressed by your movements.
>
You feel like an arisen wyvern zombie is fairly distracted by your movements.
>
It shrugs off your efforts, unafraid of the living.
>
It doesn't seem like an arisen wyvern zombie is very intimidated by you.
TEVESHSZAT
Re: New Khri in Test
06/21/2018 02:54 PM CDT
>>You get a startling sensation, as some sixth sense barely warns you of an assault by Jhien! (normal against VIVI?)
I think all snipe attacks (including VIVI) now let people know something's happening, as part of how game policy wants to handle sniping attacks like that in a PvP context.
>>You notice Jhien direct an insidiuous assault at Zharyn from hiding. (Okay, you already told me. Perc passed then?)
Correct. Dumb question but I assume you're Zharyn? If so, that's just a bit of a syntax messaging error, though, since it should say "at you".
>>You alert others of Jhien's attempted stealthy assault! (More Perc?)
Also correct!
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
I think all snipe attacks (including VIVI) now let people know something's happening, as part of how game policy wants to handle sniping attacks like that in a PvP context.
>>You notice Jhien direct an insidiuous assault at Zharyn from hiding. (Okay, you already told me. Perc passed then?)
Correct. Dumb question but I assume you're Zharyn? If so, that's just a bit of a syntax messaging error, though, since it should say "at you".
>>You alert others of Jhien's attempted stealthy assault! (More Perc?)
Also correct!
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
ZEYPHAN
Re: New Khri in Test
06/21/2018 03:31 PM CDT
Insight is listed as a Finesse ability even though it requires Sight which is Potency. Should Insight be Potency? No other khri have prereqs outside their trees.
I'm not seeing the 0 RT sneak in town with Shadowstep up.
Asking Crow about khri doesn't show the list like it does with Kalag. There's just an empty space.
~Engineering Master Ascot Ryuzzaki, Tinkerer of Elanthia
I'm not seeing the 0 RT sneak in town with Shadowstep up.
Asking Crow about khri doesn't show the list like it does with Kalag. There's just an empty space.
~Engineering Master Ascot Ryuzzaki, Tinkerer of Elanthia
THIRESDR
Re: New Khri in Test
06/21/2018 05:52 PM CDT
You have 1 available slot.
>ask dwil about khri
Dwillig pauses, "Our most powerful tools by far, Thires. Never forget or underestimate the power total discipline and control over one's very self gives you."
"
['ASK Dwillig ABOUT (ABILITY)' to hear about an ability, 'ASK Dwillig ABOUT (ABILITY) CHOOSE' to learn.]
['ASK Dwillig ABOUT (ABILITY) UNLEARN' to forget an ability you already know. Once per 30 days.]
I see that is because I don't have enough slots to get anything.
This is happening and sometimes after picking one I would get the following message.
Dwillig pauses, "Our most powerful tools by far, Thires. Never forget or underestimate the power total discipline and control over one's very self gives you."
Dwillig notes, "You have not yet earned the right to learn another ability."
[Naohhi] We'll look into it, but for now, you're making giant errors pop up all over the place on this side. :p
[Naohhi] That means.. please stop.
You have some tiny scratches to the wings.
Javac exclaims, "You didn't see me!"
>ask dwil about khri
Dwillig pauses, "Our most powerful tools by far, Thires. Never forget or underestimate the power total discipline and control over one's very self gives you."
"
['ASK Dwillig ABOUT (ABILITY)' to hear about an ability, 'ASK Dwillig ABOUT (ABILITY) CHOOSE' to learn.]
['ASK Dwillig ABOUT (ABILITY) UNLEARN' to forget an ability you already know. Once per 30 days.]
I see that is because I don't have enough slots to get anything.
This is happening and sometimes after picking one I would get the following message.
Dwillig pauses, "Our most powerful tools by far, Thires. Never forget or underestimate the power total discipline and control over one's very self gives you."
Dwillig notes, "You have not yet earned the right to learn another ability."
[Naohhi] We'll look into it, but for now, you're making giant errors pop up all over the place on this side. :p
[Naohhi] That means.. please stop.
You have some tiny scratches to the wings.
Javac exclaims, "You didn't see me!"
BADGOPHER
Re: New Khri in Test
06/21/2018 09:33 PM CDT
Hey Javac. Would another refresh before the weekend be possible?
I wasn't subscribed/active before the one at 8am on the 21st. I'll mess with my low and mid level guys.
I wasn't subscribed/active before the one at 8am on the 21st. I'll mess with my low and mid level guys.
DR-JAVAC
Re: New Khri in Test
06/21/2018 11:01 PM CDT
Fixed the typo with an extra quote on its own line.
You only see stuff you can get, so if you have no slots or too few slots, you might not see anything.
Javac
That one guy
If you have questions or comments in regard to this post please email me at DR-JAVAC@play.net.
You only see stuff you can get, so if you have no slots or too few slots, you might not see anything.
Javac
That one guy
If you have questions or comments in regard to this post please email me at DR-JAVAC@play.net.
DR-JAVAC
Re: New Khri in Test
06/21/2018 11:02 PM CDT
>Hey Javac. Would another refresh before the weekend be possible?
Probably not, but I can ask.
Javac
That one guy
If you have questions or comments in regard to this post please email me at DR-JAVAC@play.net.
Probably not, but I can ask.
Javac
That one guy
If you have questions or comments in regard to this post please email me at DR-JAVAC@play.net.
DEFOL
Re: New Khri in Test
06/22/2018 01:27 PM CDT
After some testing my biggest gripe is that combat training is again dominated by the augment tree and there's hardly any justifiable reason to use util khri over what augment or warding has to offer. Out of all available options i like hasten but because of the new experience model it's dead weight experience-wise and with sagacity now moved to warding, only other option that remains is endure. Endure seems intriguing but i'm having hard time compromising over something like endure and what it provides compared to everything else that is available.
Anyone else feel like util is under-represented in combat now that sagacity is moved to warding? Any chance sagacity could be moved back to dual util/warding?
Anyone else feel like util is under-represented in combat now that sagacity is moved to warding? Any chance sagacity could be moved back to dual util/warding?
2DUMBARSE
Re: New Khri in Test
06/22/2018 02:29 PM CDT
Sagacity is the epitome of a warding ability. The fact it was anything other than warding was weird. I can't think of a single analog at utility/warding.
It's not unusual for augmentation to dominate combat. Could be worse. Could have no access to warding skill.
A lot of the changes/additions seem quite generous as they stand. Maybe new utility khri (khris? khry? khrisesses?) can be recommended once this stuff rolls out without bugs/weirdness?
It's not unusual for augmentation to dominate combat. Could be worse. Could have no access to warding skill.
A lot of the changes/additions seem quite generous as they stand. Maybe new utility khri (khris? khry? khrisesses?) can be recommended once this stuff rolls out without bugs/weirdness?
DEFOL
Re: New Khri in Test
06/22/2018 05:09 PM CDT
<< A lot of the changes/additions seem quite generous as they stand
How so? TDPs aside, im seeing a 20% reduced ranks from going util to warding. I agree that new khri are well designed but as we are still able maintain the same number of khri as before i don't know if i'll be making any changes in my current rotations, aside from the obvious ones like slight in thievery and muse for crafting etc.
I'm guessing there's something that ruins PVP balance? That would explain all the war mages and paladins actively posting.
How so? TDPs aside, im seeing a 20% reduced ranks from going util to warding. I agree that new khri are well designed but as we are still able maintain the same number of khri as before i don't know if i'll be making any changes in my current rotations, aside from the obvious ones like slight in thievery and muse for crafting etc.
I'm guessing there's something that ruins PVP balance? That would explain all the war mages and paladins actively posting.
DIMINISHEDANGEL
Re: New Khri in Test
06/22/2018 05:16 PM CDT
>I'm guessing there's something that ruins PVP balance? That would explain all the war mages and paladins actively posting.
Thieves are dangerous again. I don't know that I would consider the new khri to be ruining PvP balance (we'll talk about getting rid of the new khri once they remove Dragon's Breath, Soul Attrition, Mental Blast, Necro zombies, and Blufmor Garaen), but they're dangerous again.
Thieves are dangerous again. I don't know that I would consider the new khri to be ruining PvP balance (we'll talk about getting rid of the new khri once they remove Dragon's Breath, Soul Attrition, Mental Blast, Necro zombies, and Blufmor Garaen), but they're dangerous again.
DEFOL
Re: New Khri in Test
06/22/2018 05:44 PM CDT
<< Thieves are dangerous again.
Several of the new added khri definitely seem like they would be more useful in pvp than they are in pve.
Several of the new added khri definitely seem like they would be more useful in pvp than they are in pve.
BADGOPHER
Re: New Khri in Test
06/22/2018 06:36 PM CDT
I popped in to test with a level 75 thief.
I used terrify against a rat and in 3 pulses, at 226 ranks, went to 7/34 mind state, and 1 or 2 out of 34 on backstab. I assume it's because this is still a stat check and I was massive win on that.
I was able to start sagacity standing, which surprised me given I have under 200 ranks of warding. I only get 2 minutes of duration, but it's cool. It didn't teach much, but I assume that's a duration-related issue rather than a challenge-related one.
Could not start evan, standing or kneeling, with 250 average magics (which I believe is correct, given the tier).
I threw up darken, harrier, and dampen, stayed at 100 concentration with a regen crown, and had 24-28 minute durations. Taught ok, about 1 mind state per 1-2 meditation command - this is what I would expect from the tier of difficulty and my ranks?
This is all I had time to check right now. I'll try some more testing on the new khri and some soak testing on the altered ones for learning splits tomorrow.
I used terrify against a rat and in 3 pulses, at 226 ranks, went to 7/34 mind state, and 1 or 2 out of 34 on backstab. I assume it's because this is still a stat check and I was massive win on that.
I was able to start sagacity standing, which surprised me given I have under 200 ranks of warding. I only get 2 minutes of duration, but it's cool. It didn't teach much, but I assume that's a duration-related issue rather than a challenge-related one.
Could not start evan, standing or kneeling, with 250 average magics (which I believe is correct, given the tier).
I threw up darken, harrier, and dampen, stayed at 100 concentration with a regen crown, and had 24-28 minute durations. Taught ok, about 1 mind state per 1-2 meditation command - this is what I would expect from the tier of difficulty and my ranks?
This is all I had time to check right now. I'll try some more testing on the new khri and some soak testing on the altered ones for learning splits tomorrow.
DIMINISHEDANGEL
Re: New Khri in Test
06/22/2018 07:52 PM CDT
>Several of the new added khri definitely seem like they would be more useful in pvp than they are in pve.
You can now very reliably stun or immobilize opponents, even outside of stealth. This means that you can almost guarantee a close to melee and a backstab, which is the entire fulcrum of Thief PvP strategy.
Invisibility triggering on any damage with Evanescence is also a nice function, but Terrify is the big new toy if you like PvP. I'm of two minds on the subject, I think Thieves needed to be more dangerous and don't want to over-react, but I also wouldn't be surprised if Backstab gets nerfed in a month or two. It's by far the biggest damage modifier in the game, and enabling it too much is a Bad Idea.
You can now very reliably stun or immobilize opponents, even outside of stealth. This means that you can almost guarantee a close to melee and a backstab, which is the entire fulcrum of Thief PvP strategy.
Invisibility triggering on any damage with Evanescence is also a nice function, but Terrify is the big new toy if you like PvP. I'm of two minds on the subject, I think Thieves needed to be more dangerous and don't want to over-react, but I also wouldn't be surprised if Backstab gets nerfed in a month or two. It's by far the biggest damage modifier in the game, and enabling it too much is a Bad Idea.
DR-ARMIFER
Re: New Khri in Test
06/22/2018 07:57 PM CDT
I'm over my daily limit for writing Thief-related vague concept statements, so I'll just go that my most honest answer is "I know this puts Backstab in a new place, but we have not had the time or data yet to decide what that is going to mean practically and specifically."
-Armifer
"Perinthia's astronomers are faced with a difficult choice. Either they must admit that all their calculations were wrong ... or else they must reveal that the order of the gods is reflected exactly in the city of monsters." - Italo Calvino
-Armifer
"Perinthia's astronomers are faced with a difficult choice. Either they must admit that all their calculations were wrong ... or else they must reveal that the order of the gods is reflected exactly in the city of monsters." - Italo Calvino
BADGOPHER
Re: New Khri in Test
06/22/2018 08:49 PM CDT
>I'm over my daily limit for writing Thief-related vague concept statements, so I'll just go that my most honest answer is "I know this puts Backstab in a new place, but we have not had the time or data yet to decide what that is going to mean practically and specifically."
From the player side what would be useful data for us to gather/generate to help?
From the player side what would be useful data for us to gather/generate to help?
2DUMBARSE
Re: New Khri in Test
06/22/2018 09:04 PM CDT
>That would explain all the war mages and paladins actively posting.
I wish there were more paladins posting in general (and in the game TBH). Not warrior mages, though. Screw those guys.
I wish there were more paladins posting in general (and in the game TBH). Not warrior mages, though. Screw those guys.
DR-ARMIFER
Re: New Khri in Test
06/22/2018 10:02 PM CDT
>>From the player side what would be useful data for us to gather/generate to help?
For Backstab's integration into the new world order? Mostly seeing how it plays with the new toys and particularly how it gets used in PvP.
For the release in general, the skill/stat datapoints, bugs, observations, and anything that seems out of whack balance wise is always helpful.
-Armifer
"Perinthia's astronomers are faced with a difficult choice. Either they must admit that all their calculations were wrong ... or else they must reveal that the order of the gods is reflected exactly in the city of monsters." - Italo Calvino
For Backstab's integration into the new world order? Mostly seeing how it plays with the new toys and particularly how it gets used in PvP.
For the release in general, the skill/stat datapoints, bugs, observations, and anything that seems out of whack balance wise is always helpful.
-Armifer
"Perinthia's astronomers are faced with a difficult choice. Either they must admit that all their calculations were wrong ... or else they must reveal that the order of the gods is reflected exactly in the city of monsters." - Italo Calvino
DEFOL
Re: New Khri in Test
06/23/2018 01:40 AM CDT
<< I also wouldn't be surprised if Backstab gets nerfed in a month or two
Yea, that's what has me worried. I'm tired of backstab being balanced around pvp. The same thing happened during the last round of tuning but they at least buffed it before nerfing. For a short period of time backstab actually felt like worth using. It hits like a wet noodle in pve as it is and there is no way we can pull off comparable dps of the raw aoe killing power a few other guilds possess. You can correct me if i'm wrong but we can barely sustain 2 KPM using backstab.
I'm not in position to do any extensive dps testing because my weapons are not on par with each other but based mostly on gut feeling i'm pretty sure my 2HE is not far off dps wise and that is just using the ATTACK verb.
Yea, that's what has me worried. I'm tired of backstab being balanced around pvp. The same thing happened during the last round of tuning but they at least buffed it before nerfing. For a short period of time backstab actually felt like worth using. It hits like a wet noodle in pve as it is and there is no way we can pull off comparable dps of the raw aoe killing power a few other guilds possess. You can correct me if i'm wrong but we can barely sustain 2 KPM using backstab.
I'm not in position to do any extensive dps testing because my weapons are not on par with each other but based mostly on gut feeling i'm pretty sure my 2HE is not far off dps wise and that is just using the ATTACK verb.
