Has there been any announcement or discussion of the 3.0 release for thieves? I know repeSe is pending HE, but if it's that close to release, surely we can get a breakdown of the abilities and what to expect?

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I'm a badger, I be badgerin'

Thieves are 3.1 and will be in test to the best of my knowledge. (Ricinus is the guy you want to talk to about Thieves 3.0)

-Raesh

"Ever notice that B.A.'s flavor text swells in direct proportion to how much one of our characters is getting screwed?" - Brian Van Hoose

Maybe Raesh will give a finer timeline, but I believe it is they'd like to hit it up before HE, but HE is dragging them by their innards or intestines or something (I think that was Kodius who said that).

So my belief is all bets are off of anything but HE finishing out before HE. However I'm hopefully Test will be opening soon after, I know some Empath stuff needs to be tested and a few other things.

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"I think anything that forces you to do something no sane adventurer would do just in order to train is ridiculous."
DR-SOCHARIS

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Victory Over Lyras, on the 397th year and 156 days since the Victory of Lanival the Redeemer.

>>surely we can get a breakdown of the abilities and what to expect?

Yep. Though please keep in mind as always that Thief abilities are IG secrets and are not to be discussed openly in game.

Also... This is the ability list as it stands PRIOR to testing and player feedback. We reserve the right to continue to improve or nerf anything listed below during the actual play testing and beyond. Testing will indeed be done during the 3.1 testing, so, Soooon.

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Khri
Darken - Stealth boost.
Hasten - Chance for RT reduction on attacks.
Focus - Agility boost.
Dampen - Stealth hinderance reduction.
Strike - Backstab boost, melee weapon boost.
Silence - Pulsing Invisible.
Safe - Locksmithing boost.
Avoidance - Reflex boost.
Plunder - Discipline, Thievery boost.
Prowess - AOE pulsing debuff (engaged) Fear vs Will when hidden, Power vs Will otherwise. Reflex, Tactics debuff.
Sight - Perception boost, nightvision effect.
Calm - Self dispel, indescriminant.
Shadowstep - Same as before.
Sensing - Same as before.
Vanish - Disengage + Invisible.
Flight - Athletics boost, pulsing balance boost.
Guile - AOE pulsing debuff (engaged) Charm vs Will. Evasion debuff.
Steady - Bow/XBow boost.
Eliminate - Brief -noshield -noarmor debuff.
Serenity - SvS barrier vs Will.
Liberation - pulsing -web/-immobilize.
Elusion - Evasion/Brawling boost.
Sagacity - Physical damage ward.

Combinations
Secure - Focus/Safe/Sight - Additional chance not to blow a box.
Speed - Avoidance/Plunder/Flight - Something nifty for PvP, not terribly useful otherwise.
Spar - Strike/Steady/Elusion - Thrown weapons boost.
Skulk - Darken/Dampen/Shadowstep - 0 second sneak in urban areas, +nolocate.
Prescience - Sensing/Serenity/Sagacity - Passive spot, additional guard avoidance/justice bonus.
Cunning - Hasten/Guild/Liberation - Charisma/Tactics boost.

Ambush
Stun - stun/unconscious depending on success.
Slash - Prevents engaging/retreating/movement, may cause target to kneel on high success.
Choke - Single target debuff - Stamina.
Screen - AOE (range limited) debuff -perception, minor pulsing RTs.
Clout - Pulsing concentration drain.
Ignite - Keeps your friends warm during those long cold winters.

Enjoy!

FGM Ricinus
Logistics Lead
Magic, Sentients Team Member
Cleric Advocate

>>pulsing debuffs will teach debil

Yep

>>sagacity will teach warding

Nope, Utility. Thieves won't have to worry about learning the Warding skill.

>>and most abilities will be augment? Or utility?

Well, discounting the debilitation abilities, the remaining are about 50/50 Augmentation/Utility.

>>Slot costs

Similar to the current system, except that instead of giving out the first three khri at 10th, Thieves will get 1 at 1st, 5th and 10th.

>>that thieves will move to a skill based magic system, but will skill or concentration determine ability strength and number of abilities able to throw down?

Well... a skill based Supernatural system. Strength of each ability is based on Inner Magic skill blended with the appropriate subskill(s). Each ability has a one-shot cost or a pulsing cost to concentration which will be the balance for how much you can do at once. With the new concentration cost model you will be able to run a set number of khri for full duration like you can now, or run more than usual for a shorter period of time.

FGM Ricinus
Logistics Lead
Magic, Sentients Team Member
Cleric Advocate

Spiffy. Thanks for the details Ricy! (Yes I will continue to call you that because I enjoy being obnoxious)

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I'm a badger, I be badgerin'

I'm still super excited about these changes.

After the meeting awhile back when you announced these, I thought they sounded good. After looking them over and comparing it to what I experience now with my Thief using his abilities, I'm even more convinced it will be a good change.

Plus, honestly, I could really use a bunch more TDPs. :-)

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Salute a drowned sailor? You ought to brush up on your protocol, Kasto.

Something I forgot to ask: will backstab be changed to be useable without the 'ambush target' workaround?

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I'm a badger, I be badgerin'

>It's not really part of this update, but it's something I don't mind looking into once 3.1 issues are sorted out.

That would be great. It's awkward now to have to choose between training on skinnable, or backstabable and box dropping critters.

An ideal solution would be, as suggested elswhere, to allow 'backstab' to work on any critter, possibly with a damage penalty to non-bipedals.

The 'ambush target' is functional, but clunky, and horribly hit or miss with exp.

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I'm a badger, I be badgerin'

>>Well... a skill based Supernatural system. Strength of each ability is based on Inner Magic skill blended with the appropriate subskill(s). Each ability has a one-shot cost or a pulsing cost to concentration which will be the balance for how much you can do at once. With the new concentration cost model you will be able to run a set number of khri for full duration like you can now, or run more than usual for a shorter period of time.

Given this, any chance sagacity could retain it's concentration restoration, and a new khri be given the damage ward? Sagacity is one of my most used Khri.

>>If clout is being completely changed, make ambush stun function like ambush clout does now. Clout is more useful because it can be done without weapon restrictions and is non damaging. It also can be done while aiming a ranged weapon.

Please yes this.

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TG, TG, GL, et al.

"Disagreement with the fundamental plan at this point is akin to supporting Richard III vs the Tudors."
-Raesh

>>Given this, any chance sagacity could retain it's concentration restoration, and a new khri be given the damage ward? Sagacity is one of my most used Khri.

Because of the ability to stack more khri at once, there needs to be a trade-off, and adding in a concentration boost skews where that balance is. Basically in the new model, if you have a set group of khri running that cost less that what you are regenerating, then you'll maintain a concentration that fluctuates around 98%-100%. This is the baseline for how much you should be able to do comfortably.

Add in a few one-shot cost abilities over time, and if you are right at the upper limit, you will start chipping away at your concentration. If you aren't right at the limit, those chips will be covered by the concentration recovery as well. So the new baseline with a number of long lasting khri, plus a selection of one-shot abilities, still leaves your concentration floating around 90%-100%.

The only time your concentration will get below these levels is when you are using more abilities than your natural recovery allows. The number of additional abilities you are running will determine how long until you tank your concentration. You can always stop a few abilities before hitting rock bottom to keep from everything dropping, but at some point you'll need to have fewer abilities than your recovery allows to make up for the time you spent using too many to get back to 100%.

The current Sagacity is really most useful for switching gears, being able to change out a set of khri that were useful for one task for another set of khri without a downtime. The new system handles that inherently, since you won't be at 5% every time you have a suite of khri running.


FGM Ricinus
Logistics Lead
Magic, Sentients Team Member
Cleric Advocate

Just because it's not listed, speed going to still give a strength boost or will we be able to get that from another Khri? That's helpful in slipping oddly large items.

Beast Elec Drister

"You know what the chain of command is? It's the chain I go get and beat you with until you understand who's in ruttin' command here."
―Jayne Cobb

MM1 (EXW) -USN 1999-present

Roger that.

Beast Elec Drister

"You know what the chain of command is? It's the chain I go get and beat you with until you understand who's in ruttin' command here."
―Jayne Cobb

MM1 (EXW) -USN 1999-present

>>For example currently Focus + Hasten gives +21 (6 and 15 respectively, capped) to agility. Focus will be the one and only agility attribute buff for thieves once the conversion is completed, so how much will it give?

The bare minimum of Focus3.0 is about the same as the minimum of Focus and Hasten. The maximum bonus won't be reached by anyone for a long time, but some folks will have a higher max than is possible now when things release.

FGM Ricinus
Logistics Lead
Magic, Sentients Team Member
Cleric Advocate

>you aren't planning on giving any kind of messaging when we use a khri are you? Outing us because we are using our "innate" abilities is going to suck for those of us who have fought for years to maintain a cover.

Why would they do this? Has there been any talk about them doing such a thing?

I'm just confused why this would even be brought up so as to need clarifying.

Blackguard Danoryiel

"Sogan udazama umbunor fau arrazoi inishatu seiremisai. (Only the fallen have nothing to despair)"

The only khri messaging that has been added to the khri/ambush stuff that could add to outing folks is that AOE debuffs will make distinctive messages to any players you are engaged with if they successfully cause a debuff. The AOE debuffs will not pulse any general messages to an area, nor will they message players if the SvS contest fails.

FGM Ricinus
Logistics Lead
Magic, Sentients Team Member
Cleric Advocate

>I ask because before you were talking about having us meditate or whatever, sitting down and what not. And I'm just not good with that.

I'm sure Elec probably doesn't need to read this but for everyone else wondering what this meditating thing is:

>Ricinus says, "First, since khri need be more effective through a longer range of skills I would like to set up a varied method for starting your khris."
>Ricinus says, "Each khri would have a base difficulty, which would contest a mixture of Inner Magic and the appropriate subskill. If you were to start the khri as you are used to, instantly, you would be doing so contested by that difficulty."
>Ricinus says, "There will be two ways to reduce that difficulty, and by reducing the difficulty increase the potency of the ability."
>Ricinus says, "The first is by sitting/kneeling/prone. This method reduces the minimum difficulty of the ability."
>Ricinus says, "The second method is by introducing a delay in the ability's activation. You would attempt to start the ability, then 10-20 seconds later it would take effect. This would not be a RT action, but there may be restrictions on what sorts of activites would break your concentration. This method reduces the maximum difficulty by some amount."
>Ricinus says, "You could use one or both methods for combined effect. If your skill already surpasses the max difficulty for a particular ability, it will not start with a delay regardless of how you attempt to start it.

A lot of people were weird-ed out by this one way or another, I personally like it and expect it to be a non-issue for pretty much everyone except very low circle thieves.

I would agree with Taleek, but my concern is that once it's done and implemented it won't be changed. And we'll be stuck with whatever it is; like it or not. But that's my fear, since GM R already has a metric butt ton of stuff on his plate. I don't know. I always assume the worst and hope for the best. That way if something good happens it's a nice surprise.

Beast Elec Drister

"You know what the chain of command is? It's the chain I go get and beat you with until you understand who's in ruttin' command here."
―Jayne Cobb

MM1 (EXW) -USN 1999-present

Fair enough. I had already planned on trying to help in test.

Beast Elec Drister

"You know what the chain of command is? It's the chain I go get and beat you with until you understand who's in ruttin' command here."
―Jayne Cobb

MM1 (EXW) -USN 1999-present

>>Is a stat respec still out of the question

I wouldn't say out of the question, but so far we don't see any need to have one for these latest changes. For Thieves, since you're going to get an avalanche of TDPs on conversion, if there is some new stat you want to focus on you'll have the means to do so already.

FGM Ricinus
Logistics Lead
Magic, Sentients Team Member
Cleric Advocate