<<Surprised we haven't had the biggest joke thrown on us today. A Thief GM. Haven't had one truly our own since Vendarin?

I don't think they're so important after development was changed to a systems-based model tbqh.

Tiessie was a great thief advocate btw.

Nikpack

Think you missed Nikpack's point. There are no long any single guild developers. They are now focused on the certain skillsets like Survival, Lore, Magic etc.

I do agree that we need an active advocate though. Tiesse is great, but she's moved on to another position and is just there as interim advocate for the time being. Would be nice to have an advocate who's primary responsibility was the Thieve's Guild.

I'm sure the Trader magic is a joke.

The non-joke is the lack of anything for Thieves. Maybe we'll luck out and get the same recycled shops with stuff noone wants again at the next fest.

>>There are no long any single guild developers. They are now focused on the certain skillsets like Survival, Lore, Magic etc.

This is essentially the case. There is the position of Guild Advocate, but it is a CE position and not a Dev position (Though in some cases a Dev GM will hold the position) so lacking an advocate isn't really something that holds up a guild's development. That said, I believe the current Survival Team is still a little short handed if people are interested in applying now would be the time (http://forums.play.net/forums/DragonRealms/Discussions%20with%20DragonRealms%20Staff%20and%20Players/Help%20Wanted/view/457).

-Raesh

"Ever notice that B.A.'s flavor text swells in direct proportion to how much one of our characters is getting screwed?" - Brian Van Hoose

<<As you can see this attitude and type of comments will usually get you less instead of more.>>

And that's exactly the point I was attempting to make. Nevermind that Thieves in general continue to be one of the better off guilds in terms of Dev. As far as recycled festival merchants... you've gotten more new stuff that Barbarians have in the last three years. And since those merchants actually DO quite a bit of sales each time they're out, I'm guessing its really you that doesn't want any of the stock, rather than 'everyone'.

GM Jaedren
Events Guy

<<As you can see this attitude and type of comments will usually get you less instead of more.>>

<<And that's exactly the point I was attempting to make. Nevermind that Thieves in general continue to be one of the better off guilds in terms of Dev. As far as recycled festival merchants... you've gotten more new stuff that Barbarians have in the last three years. And since those merchants actually DO quite a bit of sales each time they're out, I'm guessing its really you that doesn't want any of the stock, rather than 'everyone'.

<<GM Jaedren
<<Events Guy

Really? You're trying to tell us we're better off? Yes we've seen tons of development in the past three years. We've gotten tasks.. yippee, lighter keyblanks, A useful khri (sagacity), Fade weapons (a good addition), and what? That's over the past three years. It's laughable to say we've seen anything short of not much. Zeyurn released a bunch of stuff for us in 07 and 08 but we haven't seen any real development since then.

I'd like to see the numbers of those merchants showing they're doing quite a bit of sales each time. It's either keyblanks or lack of anything else so folks buy things just to buy things. Or they're not doing well and just getting recycled because we don't have any real pro-thief GMs anymore to actually throw us a few scraps.

>>Since you clearly won't take my word for it, when I post numbers why would you take my word for it there? Honestly, you're not going to be happy with any response I give at this point, so I'll humbly bow out and leave you to it.

>>GM Jaedren
>>Events Guy

So post numbers and prove me wrong and then I'll be all giddy when I see the same two merchants with the same merchandise for the past 5 years.

Call it whatever you want but stating reality as opposed to some skewed view through rose tinted glasses doesn't change the fact that we haven't received anything substantive in years other than Fade weapons. It's cute that some of you think that one person stating his opinion will actually affect us getting anything. Reality is we weren't getting anything to begin with. There's been list after list of what Thieves would like to see from a merchant and it's not hard for them to see what's been requested.

~Nancy~

>>It's cute that some of you think that one person stating his opinion will actually affect us getting anything.

>>So you agree that your view contributes nothing. I'm glad you have come to this conclusion, because now you can safely stop contributing.

Shocking you jumping into a folder and bringing nothing to it. Don't you have every other folder to troll already?

>>I think one thing you have to admit is that: This is your views of the development. Others don't have to share in them or even kowtow to you in your belligerent display of those views. Your veiled mockery and insults belie your obvious angst. I prefer my so-called rose-tinted glasses to your garish and opaque ones.

>>In short, your attitude and approach bring nothing of worth to a discussion of this nature. Please cease bashing on the few developers who actually read these forums. Thanks.

My views are held by a pretty decent amount of Thieves. I have no clue who you are but your account name doesn't ring a bell so I doubt you've been around for too long. Keep those rose-tinted glasses clean because they'll eventually collect dirt and scratch.

Your sucking up and misplaced awe of some hidden development also bring nothing to the discussion. To have a discussion on development we actually would need development. Go through the GM Announcements folder and see how much development we've had since 08.

~Nancy~

<<My views are held by a pretty decent amount of Thieves.>>

I doubt it.

Yamcer

---

"You know, while I understand the importance of seeing the (personal) validity in other's arguments, it's impossible for me to believe fully that others are correct. If their argument was correct, I'd change mine." - My GF

>>My views are held by a pretty decent amount of Thieves.

All I read is you. When they post, if they post, I only hope they are far more constructive when expressing them than your attempts.

>>account name

You can call or e-mail Simutronics at anytime to have your account name changed. I don't need to prove to you that I've been around for long enough to have an opinion on your negative outlook. There are enough people who know what characters I play/played and what I'm all about.

>>sucking up and misplaced awe

I think you are confusing respect for some sort of brown-nosing. I'm not getting any brownie points by being a nice and positive guy. That's just how freaking awesome I am and what I do on a daily basis. I enjoy this game and anybody who spends time on making it better is always going to have me in their corner. In the end, they are working for me to have more fun than I already do.

>>08

Seriously? You're complaining about 4 years? Maybe it's you who are new to this whole thing. There are some guild's who've had far less than the Thieves for far longer. However, I'll be your Huckleberry and check the folder. Here is what I found:

06/2010 Slip Fixes (quasi-theif ability, we'll count it for development)
05/2010 King Fade makes his appearence
04/2010 Khri Sagacity
03/2010 Enhanced GLANCE
02/2010 Muspar'i additions
12/2009 Reputation Updates
01/2009 Therengian pro-Thief Updates
01/2009 Crossing Guildhall expansion

Maybe you should have picked an earlier date but than your inflated argument wouldn't be so... inflated.

---

* SPLAT! * You destroy the annoying thing!

>>As you can see this attitude and type of comments will usually get you less instead of more.

>And that's exactly the point I was attempting to make.

Good to know we're working on the grudge-based development model.

Yes, let's extort a more deferential attitude. Can't have a negative voice lest a GM gets their feelings hurt and neglects everyone in that guild!

Lovely how half the people in this folder now are worrying over our single critical poster "making things worse".

Disgusting.

I'd be more sympathetic if this wasn't the attitude you leaped into the conversation with, Jaedren.

I will say though, I agree with the posters who say don't just go on about "everything sucks" etc--say what you actually think sucks, specifically, and say how you'd like things to be.

actually, There are points he made that I agree with, although he might have coached his words with a bit more finesse. as the long-time player of a thief, I'm not particularly waiting with baited breath for 3.0. Although as a player of other guilds, there are some things that are coming out that I'd enjoy, and I'm enjoying most of the craft systems already released - there's things about 3.0 I'm just not over enthusiastic about, both as the player of a thief and as a player of most
every other guild out there.

1. <thief> Everyone and his gerbil being able to carve lockpicks? I take that as a downgrade, not an upgrade. I hate that change, but there's not a single thing I can do about it.

2. <requirement changes> I'm happy with my thief requirements the way they are right now, thanks. That pretty much aligns with the other guilds as well. Except for the brand new release of magic for traders. I am admittedly Very excited about that. Every other guild means more work to get to the same place I am now. That's after the grandfathering. Training more ranks per circle for the same amount means having to spend MORE time on each character, not the same. Splitting magic into 5 different skills that you can't train by casting the same TM spell in combat. Requiring the most boring skill of powerwalking being the main way of learning attunement rather than harness which trained alongside PM.> Necromancer changes of incurring DO for all necro spells, not just trans and animation.

3. combat changes. I'm pretty satisfied as how combat works now. I've adjusted to it, and I get along just fine using "attack". Slowing down the pace, making a quasi RT for retreating, etc...Making it harder by making it take longer to kill critters.

4. weapon combines of LE and ME. I used these as my primary weapons for my thief I would use one, and when i'd mindlock it, i'd use the other. Both before I could lock backstab. Only way you'd get me enthusiastic over this change is if they let us BS with cinqs <HE weapon>. I'd take that in a heartbeat if I could do that.


3. the guildleader being replaced? As much as I like having a s'kra in charge, i liked the guild atmosphere better of the old tog. And my character personally detests having the person ultimately in charge out on ain ghazel.

4. as far as festival offerings. Other than Fade weapons and oath rings <featuring loyalty to the old tog>, I haven't made many purchases at thief shops for the last few festivals. Fade weapons are admittedly awesomesauce, and I love 'em. Although I don't love dying to get there... heh. With my climbing ranks <over 500> I shouldn't fall from the scaffolding, ya know?

I also noticed something from that list of releases. 2009. 2010. Nothing for 2011. Nothing for 2012 <yet>.

As far as being constructive and making suggestions for the guild, I have done so. Repeatedly. For 16 years. The idea of different sects for different types of thieves has been brought up before. By me and by many other thieves that have come and gone. Soim for one. Sok for another. Smuggling in combination with traders - I've suggested that since 1996 both on the trader and thief boards. Have submitted fleshed out stuff. I've put in suggestions for other passages - useful ones. In the passage contest way back when. I've submitted suggestions that would do things for thieves that have to interact with the justice system. Recall warrant. You could do it yourself rather than have to log in an alt in the city you wish to check. Bribing guards. Bribing the town hall to lose the charges against you. Stealing from creatures. Breaking and Entering in shops that close at night in shard, arthe dale, etc. And other types of things of a thiefly nature.

Jaidren, we love ya in events. Hey, I appreciated ya back when you were barbarian advocate back in 2002. But, Just cause we appreciate your efforts, doesn't mean that we can't have an open forum, as adults, to discuss decisions we disagree with, or need improvement when it comes to the Guild of Thieves, as every one of us as players "invests" our time and our money in this game, and so we each have a "stake" in it. We want to have it continue. If it ceases to be fun anymore, it won't.

---

[Uzmam] "<chat>" "what you seem to not realize is that I'd love for Uzmam to be outed. That way she could have Divult finally apprentice her and I could learn those slips"

>>Can't have a negative voice

Not at all, I don't care so much about the negative as I do the belligerence. If it was in the least bit constructive or even less insulting I could have just passed it over as some begrudged player and beneath my notice. Trying to call GM's out and claim this guild has been shafted is just a lie and that is something that cannot be allowed to spread. As long as we keep that line in the sand clear, I'm all good.

>>"making things worse"

This is actually a valid concern. I don't know many people who are motivated by insults or goon-tactics. If we allow this negative outlook to be perceived as the general player view, we could be in a world of trouble. Luckily not many make that huge leap and can see those jaded posters for what they are.

>>GJ2:open forum, as adults, to discuss

I love this, and if things were playing out along these lines than I would have been thrilled. However, they weren't and we both admit that. I actually love allot of your suggestions and think a few of them would be awesome if active on the here and now. If other posters had adopted your approach that would be a blessing.

>>There's a whole slew of development that can still be done, and is for a lot of guilds, but it's pretty much all either directly tied in with DR 3.0, or DR 3.0 is necessary to happen FIRST.

My exact understanding as well, and the main reason why I can deal with waiting for awhile.

>>Sok

Funny story, after Sok pestering me forever and bragging about being the most awesome Dwarf Thief; I decided to roll one up for myself. I trotted all the way out to Muspar'i and accused Sok of being his illegitimate father. A fact he denied by saying "Your beard is the wrong color."

---

* SPLAT! * You destroy the annoying thing!

>Fades back into the chaos dragging a unconscious post behind him.

Just a nudge.. so far.

If you have any questions, please email either myself (Mod-Pomae@play.net) or Senior Board Monitor (DR-Sidatura@play.net) or Message Board Supervisor Annwyl (DR-Annwyl@play.net).

The bickering goes to the conflicts folder.

Keep your discussion both civil and constructive or end it.

Annwyl
Message Board Supervisor

If you've questions or comments, take it to e-mail by writing me at DR-Annwyl@play.net.

This has moved from irritating back to flat amusing. Watching someone brag about how long they've played DR as if it means something, how they 'named a folder', etc. it's kinda pathetic, but mostly amusing since he is so utterly sincere.

---

Let's save us all some time: I'm a troll who rarely has anything helpful. There.

<<I'll give you a hint. I came up with the name for the conflict folder. >>

heh. hi L. welcome back!




[Uzmam] "<chat>" "what you seem to not realize is that I'd love for Uzmam to be outed. That way she could have Divult finally apprentice her and I could learn those slips"

heh, maybe the memory is going.... but wasn't there a folder called L's something which was more or less complaints? i forget the exact title... laments? or something to that effect? wasn't Laros... darn, who was it???? That's what happens when you play a necro for a few years. The brain cells cease to function...


Anyway, you brought up some legitimate concerns.





[Uzmam] "<chat>" "what you seem to not realize is that I'd love for Uzmam to be outed. That way she could have Divult finally apprentice her and I could learn those slips"