From the title this seemed like the best place to put this, so I'll deposit it here. However the description is more about stealing, which this really has nothing to do with that.
I want to give a shoot out to Tiesse, "TIESSE AND TEAM THIEF YOUR AWESOME!"
I say this because as the below excerpted log shows, Thieves were mentioned along with Rangers for their standard Tanning stuffs, but none of the other guild specific Lore creation specialties other then the Barbarians were mentioned (and it was a Barbarian Bonfire so they should be talking about their own stuff :) ).
The link:
https://www.play.net/forums/messages.asp?forum=20&category=5&topic=3&message=4364
The Excerpt:
Kodius says, "So in short, if you want to be a good forger you'll choose weaponsmithing as your career, and pick the techniques to make you a better forger."
Kodius says, "To make up for the changes, barbarians will get bonus techniques to the weaponsmithing discipline."
Kodius says, "Each guild advocate has submitted a list of which discipline they feel best fits in line with their guild, and so you'll probably see rangers good at tanning and thieves good at alchemy."
Bjoria asks, "Then what do the lore primaries get?"
Kodius says, "They get a second career pick."
Kodius says, "With 16 disciplines to pick from, even 2 won't allow someone to become master of everything."
Caraamon loudly says, "Ahhh got it."
Caraamon loudly says, "You get one "specialty" basically."
You loudly say, "Unless you're lore prime, then you get two."
I hope that Alchemy has some flushing out, because right now it is something that was also around back in the day and never really got anything close to 'specialsauce' nor the great 'awesomesauce'.
If I am going to get some bonuses to creating stuff then I might spread my wealth a little but I plan to keep true to my character and stay the course with straight shots from arrows.
_____________________________________
Seriously, there's no reason to ever go that high aside from sheer laziness. Or a bug that lodges 23982 pieces of shrapnel in you, but...er...yeah.
- GM Dartenian
SHADOW7988
MAGHRIT
Re: Alchemy, for us thieves?
03/13/2010 08:42 AM CST
I'm kinda on a mixed feeling of this whole Alchemy thing.
>>"Each guild advocate has submitted a list of which discipline they feel best fits in line with their guild, and so you'll probably see rangers good at tanning and thieves good at alchemy."
I would have always thought that empaths would be the masters of Alchemy considering. But thieves? Being as how our main thing has always been Lockpicks, I would have thought maybe metal working. Having to break open boxes/doors etc to get into things.
Alchemy is something my thief has never been into. He's made it a few times, but didn't like the effect it took. He can poison something and it pulse 5 times before said critter is dead. I can backstab said critter once, and its dead.
Alchemy isn't something I would have foreseen thieves getting as a specialty. Its worthless in my opinion. Not the way I would have seen things going. Empaths seem more like the onces to specialize in that area. But again, my opinion. I would have thought we'd have gotten metal working. Just for the lockpick thing.
Unless poison gets better, its not even worth taking the time to make it.
~Dalkin and his driver Jim~
>>"Each guild advocate has submitted a list of which discipline they feel best fits in line with their guild, and so you'll probably see rangers good at tanning and thieves good at alchemy."
I would have always thought that empaths would be the masters of Alchemy considering. But thieves? Being as how our main thing has always been Lockpicks, I would have thought maybe metal working. Having to break open boxes/doors etc to get into things.
Alchemy is something my thief has never been into. He's made it a few times, but didn't like the effect it took. He can poison something and it pulse 5 times before said critter is dead. I can backstab said critter once, and its dead.
Alchemy isn't something I would have foreseen thieves getting as a specialty. Its worthless in my opinion. Not the way I would have seen things going. Empaths seem more like the onces to specialize in that area. But again, my opinion. I would have thought we'd have gotten metal working. Just for the lockpick thing.
Unless poison gets better, its not even worth taking the time to make it.
~Dalkin and his driver Jim~
ICON1
Re: Alchemy, for us thieves?
03/13/2010 09:35 AM CST
I was thinking about the Thieves + Alchemy thing myself and here are my conclusions:
Thieves have poison making, albeit not a great system at the moment, but that's one of our guild abilities. Others will be able to make it too I expect, but we will be able to make the best stuff.
Alchemy isn't just poison. If we get a bonus to making potions, unguents, salves, balms etc, and can make the best kinds of those, we could be producing some desirable healing items too. And not just potions, what about explosives, powders (like thug powders?), and whatever else you can think of, assuming of course that we will be able to make all kinds of different things.
I would personally be glad to have something other than lockpicks as a speciality. They are hardly as much of a money spinner as forged and tanned items, and I don't think they will be going up in price much after the lore rewrite. It's going to be interesting to see what happens when the system is released, but until then I wouldn't throw my chips on any square.
Thieves have poison making, albeit not a great system at the moment, but that's one of our guild abilities. Others will be able to make it too I expect, but we will be able to make the best stuff.
Alchemy isn't just poison. If we get a bonus to making potions, unguents, salves, balms etc, and can make the best kinds of those, we could be producing some desirable healing items too. And not just potions, what about explosives, powders (like thug powders?), and whatever else you can think of, assuming of course that we will be able to make all kinds of different things.
I would personally be glad to have something other than lockpicks as a speciality. They are hardly as much of a money spinner as forged and tanned items, and I don't think they will be going up in price much after the lore rewrite. It's going to be interesting to see what happens when the system is released, but until then I wouldn't throw my chips on any square.
DR-SITHIX
Re: Alchemy, for us thieves?
03/13/2010 10:06 AM CST
>>Unless poison gets better, its not even worth taking the time to make it.
Don't worry too much yet until we are a lot closer to seeing something happen.
First: Most likely, along with the lore rewrite, comes fixing/rewriting other things. Most likely! Not that we wouldn't rewrite things that need it, it just may not make it as soon as I'd like. I don't really know yet.
Second: Given the above happening in regards to poison, even were it to go perfectly as I'd like, there would be a delay involved between seeing stone carving and the lore split hitting test and any kind of 'new poison' hitting test. Probably a large delay. Sorry, no timelines.
Also keep in mind that combat is changing. I can't really comment on that because it's not anything I've been working on, but the assumptions about backstab (or anything else combat-related) may or may not directly apply down the road.
Again, don't fret too much until we are a lot closer. You'll know when we are.
On the other hand, if you were to have ideas of poisony stuff you wanted to create and stuff you wanted it to do, post away. I won't be able to comment on any of them quite yet, but I'll record them for consideration.
- GM Sithix
Don't worry too much yet until we are a lot closer to seeing something happen.
First: Most likely, along with the lore rewrite, comes fixing/rewriting other things. Most likely! Not that we wouldn't rewrite things that need it, it just may not make it as soon as I'd like. I don't really know yet.
Second: Given the above happening in regards to poison, even were it to go perfectly as I'd like, there would be a delay involved between seeing stone carving and the lore split hitting test and any kind of 'new poison' hitting test. Probably a large delay. Sorry, no timelines.
Also keep in mind that combat is changing. I can't really comment on that because it's not anything I've been working on, but the assumptions about backstab (or anything else combat-related) may or may not directly apply down the road.
Again, don't fret too much until we are a lot closer. You'll know when we are.
On the other hand, if you were to have ideas of poisony stuff you wanted to create and stuff you wanted it to do, post away. I won't be able to comment on any of them quite yet, but I'll record them for consideration.
- GM Sithix
JMF90
Re: Alchemy, for us thieves?
03/13/2010 03:38 PM CST
The new toad poison acts as a debuff of sorts. That would be pretty useful against more difficult creatures/GMPCs/etc.
GRIM45
Re: Alchemy, for us thieves?
03/13/2010 03:49 PM CST
>>The new toad poison acts as a debuff of sorts. That would be pretty useful against more difficult creatures/GMPCs/etc.
The problem with most poisons is, if I can get it on you (IE hit you with an arrow/bolt/melee weapon) then there is really no reason for me NOT to use nerve poison. Death > debuff.
TG, TG, GL, et al.
Also: Moo.
The problem with most poisons is, if I can get it on you (IE hit you with an arrow/bolt/melee weapon) then there is really no reason for me NOT to use nerve poison. Death > debuff.
TG, TG, GL, et al.
Also: Moo.
ASHBAUGHJ2
Re: Alchemy, for us thieves?
03/13/2010 03:52 PM CST
Death is a pretty serious debuff.
The Moose
"My advice? Run to a safe room, then re-roll. It's guaranteed awesome."
The Moose
"My advice? Run to a safe room, then re-roll. It's guaranteed awesome."
JMF90
Re: Alchemy, for us thieves?
03/13/2010 04:25 PM CST
>The problem with most poisons is, if I can get it on you (IE hit you with an arrow/bolt/melee weapon) then there is really no reason for me NOT to use nerve poison. Death > debuff.
True, true. If it were easy enough to make/use it might be handy for weapon training. At least, in theory.
True, true. If it were easy enough to make/use it might be handy for weapon training. At least, in theory.
GRIM45
Re: Alchemy, for us thieves?
03/13/2010 04:30 PM CST
>>True, true. If it were easy enough to make/use it might be handy for weapon training. At least, in theory.
What I'd like to see is some disabling poisons (non-lethal at least), that applying is not a combat check, but more akin to Spell vs Agility contests. Obviously not in spell form.
TG, TG, GL, et al.
Also: Moo.
What I'd like to see is some disabling poisons (non-lethal at least), that applying is not a combat check, but more akin to Spell vs Agility contests. Obviously not in spell form.
TG, TG, GL, et al.
Also: Moo.
JMF90
Re: Alchemy, for us thieves?
03/13/2010 04:37 PM CST
>What I'd like to see is some disabling poisons (non-lethal at least), that applying is not a combat check, but more akin to Spell vs Agility contests. Obviously not in spell form.
Yeah, that would help a lot.
Powders like the thug powders maybe. Although I wish those were easier to get and not automatic. Or gas clouds of some kind. There's actually a vial you can harvest from traps that will throw up a poison cloud when you drop them.
Yeah, that would help a lot.
Powders like the thug powders maybe. Although I wish those were easier to get and not automatic. Or gas clouds of some kind. There's actually a vial you can harvest from traps that will throw up a poison cloud when you drop them.
GRIM45
Re: Alchemy, for us thieves?
03/13/2010 05:02 PM CST
I think the new toad poison and the stunning poison would actually be a great type for this.
TG, TG, GL, et al.
Also: Moo.
TG, TG, GL, et al.
Also: Moo.
GERSTEINJ2
Re: Alchemy, for us thieves?
03/13/2010 05:18 PM CST
sleeping poison would be good to be able to make as well.
the world is broken
the world is broken
IDONS-BUDDY
Re: Alchemy, for us thieves?
03/13/2010 05:23 PM CST
I'd still like to see the ability to add poisons to food and drinks.
I'd be sad if this was thief only though.
Rev. Reene
>poke eyes
You can't poke the Eyes of the Thirteen.
I'd be sad if this was thief only though.
Rev. Reene
>poke eyes
You can't poke the Eyes of the Thirteen.
GERSTEINJ2
Re: Alchemy, for us thieves?
03/13/2010 05:39 PM CST
although this could be utilized RP-wise, if others are willing -- but your average DR player, as soon as something like this came out, is going to be unlikely to be willing to drink the cup of tea you give them, or even plant on their person.
-you hand Lyras a cup of tea- problem solved!-
the world is broken
-you hand Lyras a cup of tea- problem solved!-
the world is broken
IDONS-BUDDY
Re: Alchemy, for us thieves?
03/13/2010 05:43 PM CST
Oh well?
When it was suggested before, I said there should be a way of telling by using SMELL or something that contests their appraisal/scholarship versus mech (or alchemy skill in this case).
I just think it'd be a really neat tool that relied on RP'd guile instead of straight-out numbers.
Rev. Reene
>poke eyes
You can't poke the Eyes of the Thirteen.
When it was suggested before, I said there should be a way of telling by using SMELL or something that contests their appraisal/scholarship versus mech (or alchemy skill in this case).
I just think it'd be a really neat tool that relied on RP'd guile instead of straight-out numbers.
Rev. Reene
>poke eyes
You can't poke the Eyes of the Thirteen.
ASHBAUGHJ2
Re: Alchemy, for us thieves?
03/13/2010 05:45 PM CST
Seems like a good candidate for SLIP to me.
The Moose
"My advice? Run to a safe room, then re-roll. It's guaranteed awesome."
The Moose
"My advice? Run to a safe room, then re-roll. It's guaranteed awesome."
GERSTEINJ2
Re: Alchemy, for us thieves?
03/13/2010 05:47 PM CST
again, while you can "slip" someone a drink, you can't make 'em actully imbibe.
the world is broken
the world is broken
IDONS-BUDDY
Re: Alchemy, for us thieves?
03/13/2010 05:49 PM CST
I imagine he meant slipping poison into something someone was already drinking.
Also a good suggestion. Should be a pretty hefty check though.
Rev. Reene
>poke eyes
You can't poke the Eyes of the Thirteen.
Also a good suggestion. Should be a pretty hefty check though.
Rev. Reene
>poke eyes
You can't poke the Eyes of the Thirteen.
ASHBAUGHJ2
Re: Alchemy, for us thieves?
03/13/2010 06:52 PM CST
Yes, slipping into a held item, etc...
Or dusting the contents of a picnic basket!
The Moose
"My advice? Run to a safe room, then re-roll. It's guaranteed awesome."
Or dusting the contents of a picnic basket!
The Moose
"My advice? Run to a safe room, then re-roll. It's guaranteed awesome."
DR-SITHIX
Re: Alchemy, for us thieves?
03/14/2010 03:19 AM CDT
>>Or dusting the contents of a picnic basket!
Poor Yogi.
- GM Sithix
Poor Yogi.
- GM Sithix
MAGHRIT
Re: Alchemy, for us thieves?
03/14/2010 10:59 AM CDT
Ok, goin to try to break this down a little bit. See if it makes sense.
>>Alchemy isn't just poison. If we get a bonus to making potions, unguents, salves, balms etc, and can make the best kinds of those, we could be producing some desirable healing items too. And not just potions, what about explosives, powders (like thug powders?), and whatever else you can think of, assuming of course that we will be able to make all kinds of different things.
>>making potions, unguents, salves, balms etc, and can make the best kinds of those, we could be producing some desirable healing items too.
That sounds more like something empaths would be better at. Since they know the nervous system and how the body works. They do heal us and heal themselves. Potions, salves, unguents would be more on their level with their healing and knowing how they system works first hand.
>>what about explosives, powders (like thug powders?)
I wouldn't mind that. Almost like a naphtha bomb. Heh.
If the poison system worked better, I'd prolly be ok with the whole thing. But as it stands, its not worth it. Not really. It takes nearly 40 minutes to make 1, not 2, not 3, but 1 coating. If we could get multiple coating on one blade, ok, that would make it a bit more worth while. But as it stands, being masters of Alchemy when it takes so many pulses to kill, its not worth it much. At least not in my opinion.
Metal working sounds more up our alley. Breaking and entering. Knowing how to work that latch on that window from the outside. Or how to pick a lock on a door, it is metal, wether its a key lock, or a latch. How thick of a knife you'll need to pry that window open without breaking it, how to fanagle that lock to where the box doesn't break so they know we broke in to take their coins/jewelry etc.
We're Thieves not healers. Not empaths. Metal working seems better down our line. Lockpicks, metal locks, metal latches, metal hinges.
Just my two kronars. If I think of more, I"ll post again later.
~Dalkin and his driver Jim~
>>Alchemy isn't just poison. If we get a bonus to making potions, unguents, salves, balms etc, and can make the best kinds of those, we could be producing some desirable healing items too. And not just potions, what about explosives, powders (like thug powders?), and whatever else you can think of, assuming of course that we will be able to make all kinds of different things.
>>making potions, unguents, salves, balms etc, and can make the best kinds of those, we could be producing some desirable healing items too.
That sounds more like something empaths would be better at. Since they know the nervous system and how the body works. They do heal us and heal themselves. Potions, salves, unguents would be more on their level with their healing and knowing how they system works first hand.
>>what about explosives, powders (like thug powders?)
I wouldn't mind that. Almost like a naphtha bomb. Heh.
If the poison system worked better, I'd prolly be ok with the whole thing. But as it stands, its not worth it. Not really. It takes nearly 40 minutes to make 1, not 2, not 3, but 1 coating. If we could get multiple coating on one blade, ok, that would make it a bit more worth while. But as it stands, being masters of Alchemy when it takes so many pulses to kill, its not worth it much. At least not in my opinion.
Metal working sounds more up our alley. Breaking and entering. Knowing how to work that latch on that window from the outside. Or how to pick a lock on a door, it is metal, wether its a key lock, or a latch. How thick of a knife you'll need to pry that window open without breaking it, how to fanagle that lock to where the box doesn't break so they know we broke in to take their coins/jewelry etc.
We're Thieves not healers. Not empaths. Metal working seems better down our line. Lockpicks, metal locks, metal latches, metal hinges.
Just my two kronars. If I think of more, I"ll post again later.
~Dalkin and his driver Jim~
GRIM45
Re: Alchemy, for us thieves?
03/14/2010 11:01 AM CDT
>>If the poison system worked better, I'd prolly be ok with the whole thing. But as it stands, its not worth it. Not really. It takes nearly 40 minutes to make 1, not 2, not 3, but 1 coating.
You're doing it wrong. I strongly suggest you seek out a thief more knowledgeable than you in poison. I'm not going to post on the boards, but certainly feel free to ask around in crossing/shard, which is where my thief usually is.
TG, TG, GL, et al.
Also: Moo.
You're doing it wrong. I strongly suggest you seek out a thief more knowledgeable than you in poison. I'm not going to post on the boards, but certainly feel free to ask around in crossing/shard, which is where my thief usually is.
TG, TG, GL, et al.
Also: Moo.
SHADOW7988
Re: Alchemy, for us thieves?
03/14/2010 05:50 PM CDT
As the GM stated Combat is coming, Backstab will (at least I hope still do plenty of Damage, extra damage) however it won't add to the one shot kill, that seems (from what the high level character's players have posted on the Forums) to happen all to much in upper skill combat.
Poisons might work more.
While Empaths might, know a bit about Alchemy. They have magic to heal just about everything. Thus they may not feel the need to figure out something they know how to do.
I could see Alchemy for a lot more then just healing salves though. Things that boost strength, endurance, our reflexes.
Or perhaps making acids that can burn through traps and locks.
Alchemy isn't just chemistry, alchemy is beyond Chemistry it is able to do things that are 'supernatural' or metaphysical.
_____________________________________
Seriously, there's no reason to ever go that high aside from sheer laziness. Or a bug that lodges 23982 pieces of shrapnel in you, but...er...yeah.
- GM Dartenian
Poisons might work more.
While Empaths might, know a bit about Alchemy. They have magic to heal just about everything. Thus they may not feel the need to figure out something they know how to do.
I could see Alchemy for a lot more then just healing salves though. Things that boost strength, endurance, our reflexes.
Or perhaps making acids that can burn through traps and locks.
Alchemy isn't just chemistry, alchemy is beyond Chemistry it is able to do things that are 'supernatural' or metaphysical.
_____________________________________
Seriously, there's no reason to ever go that high aside from sheer laziness. Or a bug that lodges 23982 pieces of shrapnel in you, but...er...yeah.
- GM Dartenian
MAGHRIT
Re: Alchemy, for us thieves?
03/14/2010 08:24 PM CDT
Ok, isn't Khri our mind? We use our mind to concentrate more? We use that concentration to help our "mindstates"?
Alchemy I see more as yes, chemistry. Chemistry isn't using our mind. At least not physically. If that makes sense?
~Dalkin and his driver Jim~
Oh, and as for searching someone out IG, I'm in plat. Not really an easy thing to do.
Alchemy I see more as yes, chemistry. Chemistry isn't using our mind. At least not physically. If that makes sense?
~Dalkin and his driver Jim~
Oh, and as for searching someone out IG, I'm in plat. Not really an easy thing to do.
SHADOW7988
Re: Alchemy, for us thieves?
03/15/2010 12:57 AM CDT
But Alchemy isn't a Guild secret [perhaps certain aspects of it are], but I think it is supposed to be supernatural, at least compared to RL Chemistry (and as far as the original sense of Alchemy in DR -books written- they didn't have a good grasp of fundamentals to Chemistry).
I think there could be a lot of openings in this Creation system, and I wouldn't just want to go, oh well it can't be cool, or neat, so let it fall to the ground.
_____________________________________
Seriously, there's no reason to ever go that high aside from sheer laziness. Or a bug that lodges 23982 pieces of shrapnel in you, but...er...yeah.
- GM Dartenian
I think there could be a lot of openings in this Creation system, and I wouldn't just want to go, oh well it can't be cool, or neat, so let it fall to the ground.
_____________________________________
Seriously, there's no reason to ever go that high aside from sheer laziness. Or a bug that lodges 23982 pieces of shrapnel in you, but...er...yeah.
- GM Dartenian
ICON1
Re: Alchemy, for us thieves?
03/15/2010 02:19 AM CDT
>I imagine he meant slipping poison into something someone was already drinking.
I either suggested this or alluded to it some time ago but it is lost in the mists of time and the forums. I had the idea from a NPC assassin in another game who said 'Sometimes you don't need a blade, merely a glass of wine and a smile' or words to that effect. It would be a great RP tool in certain situations.
I either suggested this or alluded to it some time ago but it is lost in the mists of time and the forums. I had the idea from a NPC assassin in another game who said 'Sometimes you don't need a blade, merely a glass of wine and a smile' or words to that effect. It would be a great RP tool in certain situations.
JBSB
Re: Alchemy, for us thieves?
03/24/2010 01:49 AM CDT
I want my thief to be able to make cookies that restore vitality...best cookies evar.
- The Squirrel in Plat
- The Squirrel in Plat
GERSTEINJ2
Re: Alchemy, for us thieves?
03/24/2010 09:30 AM CDT
want a blueberry tart?
the world is broken
the world is broken
