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>>Ohh, Vinjince in a dance off. Hmmm.
Bahahaha. Make it so.
Melete
[Turmis] I'm about to shoot beards in the face
DR-MELETE
FUTILITY
Re: Sandar and Latathi selling Fade weapons in the Plaza
06/19/2011 03:43 PM CDT
>>Coming in to this thread late, but you mailed that on the head. Whoever said that is just looking for excuses to blame someone else for their own lack of effort. Same goes for anyone else who says, "Oh the "big name" people are gone so there's no point to do anything now." Being a leader is tough. Being a follower is simple. Blaming everyone else in the guild for lack of leadership is just a cop-out.
Please, don't patronize me. I know more about leadership than any corporate middle manager is going to learn in the entirety of his career. I do it in real life, so I have about zero desire to do it on my personal time, as I am not a control freak and already juggle about as much responsibility as I can stand. I have taken some time to consider the obstacles to the accomplishment of this idea, however, as I am an experienced leader.
Did you consider how difficult it would be to recruit other characters when your character has not been active in the guild since 2001? He has, as far as I know, literally no reputation. That means my first significant obstacle is time. Time spent playing the character to re-establish his reputation or, in this case, establish a new one.
Did you consider how difficult it will be to enforce those old standards when you're not even properly trained to be your circle any more? I won't bother explaining why the first two issues are antithetical, I think that particular gem of knowledge is at this juncture well-established in the game's community.
I'm going to presume you forgot that the old guard enforced the code with the approval -- here's the key -- and at times intervention of the sitting Thief Guru. Even before Royce rolled in and did a boatload of good things for the guild, Gonk had the back of the old guard and the Code.
Finally, you're presuming that there aren't people, both in the guild and outside of it, that are willing to use OOC knowledge to disrupt something like this. That is an unbelievably asinine stance, and one of the obstacles that has not changed since the late 90s. The difference is that there are proportionally more of these types of players in the player base as compared to then, but also that they're now the established characters with the clout to be able to accomplish this sort of thing and exactly zero desire to do so.
People flat out laugh at the idea of gonif PvPing. How effective is Schvartzgonif going to be as an enforcer?
How about Alagash now that that Fervid Shade business is basically over? Soim's gone. So is Subai. Kraelyst and Jok and I could go on and on here.
But this is just a cop-out right? It's not like there are GMs whose job it is to create interesting events and involve players in the game's lore.
Oh wait. Nobody wears hypocrisy well, Solomon, but I haven't tried recently.
Please, don't patronize me. I know more about leadership than any corporate middle manager is going to learn in the entirety of his career. I do it in real life, so I have about zero desire to do it on my personal time, as I am not a control freak and already juggle about as much responsibility as I can stand. I have taken some time to consider the obstacles to the accomplishment of this idea, however, as I am an experienced leader.
Did you consider how difficult it would be to recruit other characters when your character has not been active in the guild since 2001? He has, as far as I know, literally no reputation. That means my first significant obstacle is time. Time spent playing the character to re-establish his reputation or, in this case, establish a new one.
Did you consider how difficult it will be to enforce those old standards when you're not even properly trained to be your circle any more? I won't bother explaining why the first two issues are antithetical, I think that particular gem of knowledge is at this juncture well-established in the game's community.
I'm going to presume you forgot that the old guard enforced the code with the approval -- here's the key -- and at times intervention of the sitting Thief Guru. Even before Royce rolled in and did a boatload of good things for the guild, Gonk had the back of the old guard and the Code.
Finally, you're presuming that there aren't people, both in the guild and outside of it, that are willing to use OOC knowledge to disrupt something like this. That is an unbelievably asinine stance, and one of the obstacles that has not changed since the late 90s. The difference is that there are proportionally more of these types of players in the player base as compared to then, but also that they're now the established characters with the clout to be able to accomplish this sort of thing and exactly zero desire to do so.
People flat out laugh at the idea of gonif PvPing. How effective is Schvartzgonif going to be as an enforcer?
How about Alagash now that that Fervid Shade business is basically over? Soim's gone. So is Subai. Kraelyst and Jok and I could go on and on here.
But this is just a cop-out right? It's not like there are GMs whose job it is to create interesting events and involve players in the game's lore.
Oh wait. Nobody wears hypocrisy well, Solomon, but I haven't tried recently.
MOOK1
Re: Sandar and Latathi selling Fade weapons in the Plaza
06/19/2011 04:31 PM CDT
Heh, thanks for the laugh Futility.
-Evran
The first slayer of Malik, may he not rest in peace.
-Evran
The first slayer of Malik, may he not rest in peace.
SHADOW7988
Re: Sandar and Latathi selling Fade weapons in the Plaza
06/19/2011 04:56 PM CDT
I haven't written about this as much, as I thought about it. I hear people complain there isn't a player base, back in the day there was thousands of players or whatever.
Fact is, the problem isn't the number of players, its the amount of players who just want to script. Training is important. However getting people to break away from training and get involved whether being in the Paladin Guild, or the Thieves Guild is important.
I'd really like an easy way to send out messages to all thieves in game. Whether they want to break away from scripting or not is their deal. But manually finding and telling them is a very time extensive action.
I for one will continue to try to set things up for the guild, wait in there for long hours, send out coded messages, to the few who ever got rings, or might have accidently acquired them.
By the by, it be nice to have a Thief Advocate, or whatever that position is called now adays, but I'll keep trying.
<-Player of a circle 36 Thief, and a few that are much lower.
_____________________________________
Victory Over Lyras, on the 397th year and 156 days since the Victory of Lanival the Redeemer.
Fact is, the problem isn't the number of players, its the amount of players who just want to script. Training is important. However getting people to break away from training and get involved whether being in the Paladin Guild, or the Thieves Guild is important.
I'd really like an easy way to send out messages to all thieves in game. Whether they want to break away from scripting or not is their deal. But manually finding and telling them is a very time extensive action.
I for one will continue to try to set things up for the guild, wait in there for long hours, send out coded messages, to the few who ever got rings, or might have accidently acquired them.
By the by, it be nice to have a Thief Advocate, or whatever that position is called now adays, but I'll keep trying.
<-Player of a circle 36 Thief, and a few that are much lower.
_____________________________________
Victory Over Lyras, on the 397th year and 156 days since the Victory of Lanival the Redeemer.
KROONERMANREVENGE
Re: Sandar and Latathi selling Fade weapons in the Plaza
06/19/2011 07:16 PM CDT
>I'd really like an easy way to send out messages to all thieves in game. Whether they want to break away from scripting or not is their deal. But manually finding and telling them is a very time extensive action.
I think all people doing events would. I believe writting DR Events or such will have a GM review your event and possibly give IG global messaging.
I think all people doing events would. I believe writting DR Events or such will have a GM review your event and possibly give IG global messaging.
BEVERAGEK
Re: Sandar and Latathi selling Fade weapons in the Plaza
06/19/2011 07:45 PM CDT
>>...so I have about zero desire to do it on my personal time...
That's about all I'm getting out of this thread. What a shame.
~Leilond
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/Leilond
http://soundsoftime.bravehost.com
That's about all I'm getting out of this thread. What a shame.
~Leilond
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/Leilond
http://soundsoftime.bravehost.com
VEE-REX
Re: Sandar and Latathi selling Fade weapons in the Plaza
06/19/2011 07:50 PM CDT
>>That's about all I'm getting out of this thread. What a shame.
This.
If you don't have it in you to get things going stop whining about it IMO. Especially for someone who obviously has no real interest in their Thief because he doesn't train/develop/use it other than for box popping.
Individuals, families, countries, continents are destroyed at the heavy hand of Vinjince.
-GM Abasha
This.
If you don't have it in you to get things going stop whining about it IMO. Especially for someone who obviously has no real interest in their Thief because he doesn't train/develop/use it other than for box popping.
Individuals, families, countries, continents are destroyed at the heavy hand of Vinjince.
-GM Abasha
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Sandar and Latathi selling Fade weapons in the Plaza
06/19/2011 08:09 PM CDT
>>But this is just a cop-out right?
Yes.
Yes.
FUTILITY
Re: Sandar and Latathi selling Fade weapons in the Plaza
06/19/2011 08:17 PM CDT
>>That's about all I'm getting out of this thread. What a shame.
I apologize that I cannot gather the requisite enthusiasm to jump into a huge project like this. One that, if I'm going to be realistic with myself, I am not likely to be able to sustain or complete due to the demands of my actual job. That I get paid to do.
I apologize that I cannot gather the requisite enthusiasm to jump into a huge project like this. One that, if I'm going to be realistic with myself, I am not likely to be able to sustain or complete due to the demands of my actual job. That I get paid to do.
HAMBARD
Re: Sandar and Latathi selling Fade weapons in the Plaza
06/19/2011 08:19 PM CDT
>>Futility
Appropriate account name is appropriate.
Player of Ryken
---
"Life expectancy would grow by leaps and bounds if green vegetables smelled as good as bacon." ~ Doug Larson
AIM - RykenDR
Appropriate account name is appropriate.
Player of Ryken
---
"Life expectancy would grow by leaps and bounds if green vegetables smelled as good as bacon." ~ Doug Larson
AIM - RykenDR
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Sandar and Latathi selling Fade weapons in the Plaza
06/19/2011 08:33 PM CDT
>>I apologize that I cannot gather the requisite enthusiasm to jump into a huge project like this.
The problem is less that you lack the enthusiasm, and more that you seem to be comfortable enough being an armchair critic, and people are recognizing the very fact that it's a lot less work/effort to complain about the lack of RP than it is to go out and RP yourself.
>>One that, if I'm going to be realistic with myself, I am not likely to be able to sustain or complete due to the demands of my actual job. That I get paid to do.
If you want to RP and enjoy RPing, it's not really seen as mindless drudgery when you do it. When I write letters as a method of RPing for my Necromancer, I'm not going "Ugh, I have to be creative again! If I wanted to work I'd take a job as a copy editor!," I just do it because I enjoy doing it and I don't see it as a chore.
The problem is less that you lack the enthusiasm, and more that you seem to be comfortable enough being an armchair critic, and people are recognizing the very fact that it's a lot less work/effort to complain about the lack of RP than it is to go out and RP yourself.
>>One that, if I'm going to be realistic with myself, I am not likely to be able to sustain or complete due to the demands of my actual job. That I get paid to do.
If you want to RP and enjoy RPing, it's not really seen as mindless drudgery when you do it. When I write letters as a method of RPing for my Necromancer, I'm not going "Ugh, I have to be creative again! If I wanted to work I'd take a job as a copy editor!," I just do it because I enjoy doing it and I don't see it as a chore.
BEVERAGEK
Re: Sandar and Latathi selling Fade weapons in the Plaza
06/19/2011 08:52 PM CDT
You don't need to apologize FUTILITY, I totally get that it takes a lot of effort to design, implement and maintain an organization such as this, which is why I don't expect everyone to jump on it.
I just think you're being awfully negative about it when there could be some people who have and are willing to put forth that kind of effort. I also think it is unfair for you to complain about something that you yourself can solve but choose not to, for lack of time or otherwise.
As an example, I intend on forming a PvP Improvement focused Official or Unofficial Organization at some point when I have more time to put forth the effort to do so. Like you, I'm not in a situation where I have the time to do it now; however one day I will have that time so I can't in good judgement complain about the fact that a PvP Improvement group doesn't exist now :P
~Leilond
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/Leilond
http://soundsoftime.bravehost.com
I just think you're being awfully negative about it when there could be some people who have and are willing to put forth that kind of effort. I also think it is unfair for you to complain about something that you yourself can solve but choose not to, for lack of time or otherwise.
As an example, I intend on forming a PvP Improvement focused Official or Unofficial Organization at some point when I have more time to put forth the effort to do so. Like you, I'm not in a situation where I have the time to do it now; however one day I will have that time so I can't in good judgement complain about the fact that a PvP Improvement group doesn't exist now :P
~Leilond
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/Leilond
http://soundsoftime.bravehost.com
SIMU-SOLOMON
Re: Sandar and Latathi selling Fade weapons in the Plaza
06/19/2011 09:50 PM CDT
>>Futility
If that's where this is coming from, then that explains why I missed the comments in the thread.
Carry on. Everyone seems to be on the same (and correct) page with this one, at least.
Solomon
If that's where this is coming from, then that explains why I missed the comments in the thread.
Carry on. Everyone seems to be on the same (and correct) page with this one, at least.
Solomon
VEE-REX
Re: Sandar and Latathi selling Fade weapons in the Plaza
06/19/2011 09:54 PM CDT
>>Like you, I'm not in a situation where I have the time to do it now; however one day I will have that time so I can't in good judgement complain about the fact that a PvP Improvement group doesn't exist now :P
Off topic: On that, I think creating a more friendly and less competitive (wyvern trials) environment might make people more inclined to join and learn.
On topic: Selling Fade weapons is a terrible thing to do!
Individuals, families, countries, continents are destroyed at the heavy hand of Vinjince.
-GM Abasha
Off topic: On that, I think creating a more friendly and less competitive (wyvern trials) environment might make people more inclined to join and learn.
On topic: Selling Fade weapons is a terrible thing to do!
Individuals, families, countries, continents are destroyed at the heavy hand of Vinjince.
-GM Abasha
DISCOTEQ21
Re: Sandar and Latathi selling Fade weapons in the Plaza
06/20/2011 08:17 AM CDT
<<I just think you're being awfully negative about it when there could be some people who have and are willing to put forth that kind of effort. I also think it is unfair for you to complain about something that you yourself can solve but choose not to, for lack of time or otherwise.<<
Futility you really took this on a weird tangent.... why is it completely on your shoulders to organize and establish the RP for the entire thief's guild? Did I miss a post where someone said you, as in YOU PERSONALLY, had to do it? I'm sorry your real life has such strenuous demands and requirements.
On a side note I like a lot of the ideas kicked around here, and I am gonna dust off my thief and see what we can come up with.
One area where the GMs could help would be to make an area in the current crossing thieves guild or a different guild a nice place to train, maybe throw in a climbing wall, and a bucket or bin in the same room, I don't know. I think establishing good gathering spots is an easy way for GMs to encourage role play just by getting people in the same room. Throw said gathering spot in a guildhall restricted to one guild and you're probably going to have sinister plots drawn up.
Futility you really took this on a weird tangent.... why is it completely on your shoulders to organize and establish the RP for the entire thief's guild? Did I miss a post where someone said you, as in YOU PERSONALLY, had to do it? I'm sorry your real life has such strenuous demands and requirements.
On a side note I like a lot of the ideas kicked around here, and I am gonna dust off my thief and see what we can come up with.
One area where the GMs could help would be to make an area in the current crossing thieves guild or a different guild a nice place to train, maybe throw in a climbing wall, and a bucket or bin in the same room, I don't know. I think establishing good gathering spots is an easy way for GMs to encourage role play just by getting people in the same room. Throw said gathering spot in a guildhall restricted to one guild and you're probably going to have sinister plots drawn up.
HERALD42
Re: Sandar and Latathi selling Fade weapons in the Plaza
06/20/2011 09:13 AM CDT
I like the idea of sticking a climbing wall and a bucket in the same room. Perhaps attach a very small mining area (one room, digging a new passage?) and a way to forage alchemy ingredients, and we'd be golden once braiding/pyramids stop being the way to train Mech.
From there, we'd just need people to make a conscious decision to train there rather than hitting up the Rangers/Warrior Mages/Northeast Gate/other parking lot of choice. That is our problem. That's the problem we've had for years. It's not that Kalag died. It's not that the guild turned a blind eye to Shard. It's that nearly everyone (especially the people who cared) stopped coming to the guild except to bin and circle. No single person has to go and re-forge the guild. They just need to show up.
You typed Roar Help. Good for you!
From there, we'd just need people to make a conscious decision to train there rather than hitting up the Rangers/Warrior Mages/Northeast Gate/other parking lot of choice. That is our problem. That's the problem we've had for years. It's not that Kalag died. It's not that the guild turned a blind eye to Shard. It's that nearly everyone (especially the people who cared) stopped coming to the guild except to bin and circle. No single person has to go and re-forge the guild. They just need to show up.
You typed Roar Help. Good for you!
DISCOTEQ21
Re: Sandar and Latathi selling Fade weapons in the Plaza
06/20/2011 09:33 AM CDT
>>it's that nearly everyone (especially the people who cared) stopped coming to the guild except to bin and circle. No single person has to go and re-forge the guild. They just need to show up.<<
That is exactly what I was thinking, also I LOVE your added ideas. If the thieves had a general gathering spot and you throw in a generous amount of lockpicking and stealing classes... we'd be in business.
That is exactly what I was thinking, also I LOVE your added ideas. If the thieves had a general gathering spot and you throw in a generous amount of lockpicking and stealing classes... we'd be in business.
BLCKGRD4
Re: Sandar and Latathi selling Fade weapons in the Plaza
06/20/2011 09:59 AM CDT
>>One area where the GMs could help would be to make an area in the current crossing thieves guild or a different guild a nice place to train, maybe throw in a climbing wall, and a bucket or bin in the same room, I don't know. I think establishing good gathering spots is an easy way for GMs to encourage role play just by getting people in the same room. Throw said gathering spot in a guildhall restricted to one guild and you're probably going to have sinister plots drawn up.<<
IMO throwing a new area into a guild that is rarely visited anyhow isn't going to draw a significant amount of players to it, and is a waste of time for the GM's to create and implement when there are far better things they could do with their time. At best you might have people stop in to see what it is, but soon afterwards they would just go back to their basic routines, whatever that may be. I believe that if players want to implement some sort of new rp based "code" or whatever the case might be, it could be done and without GM's bribing players to a new area in the guild. Use the existing areas in the guildhalls, or use other areas in the cities to accomplish it.
The Thieves Guild player base is just not the same as its "Golden Age" as a lot of people seem to recall or want a return to. I came up in that era with players like Soim, Kraelyst, Subai, Snea, Izude etc, and while they brought their own flavor to the guild, they didn't define the guild, they were creative and made the guild fun because of their creativity using what they had at the time (who doesn't love reading about Merauds Lavender Quest, or the ferry Thug Patrols?). Just because they are gone doesn't mean that later on younger players or even an old timer can't take up their roles in the future. It's all about creativity and using what is available to make the guild better overall, it doesn't take a new area to accomplish this. If the idea is solid, or if the players RP is consistent, it doesn't matter who or what it is, others will want to join in and participate when they have the opportunity.
In regards to a Trader selling Fade weapons on their tables though, this isn't even news and honestly who was really surprised it happened, this is just a redressed version of the Ambika weapons of years ago, it's the same fight with the same storyline and it's going to happen again in the future with some other mechant and some other Trader. We have the resources to handle it just as before. You either buy the weapon, you threaten/harrass the Trader until they stop, you Thug the Trader etc etc. It's the same now as it was back then.
Blackguard Danoryiel
"Sogan udazama umbunor fau arrazoi inishatu seiremisai. (Only the fallen have nothing to despair)"
IMO throwing a new area into a guild that is rarely visited anyhow isn't going to draw a significant amount of players to it, and is a waste of time for the GM's to create and implement when there are far better things they could do with their time. At best you might have people stop in to see what it is, but soon afterwards they would just go back to their basic routines, whatever that may be. I believe that if players want to implement some sort of new rp based "code" or whatever the case might be, it could be done and without GM's bribing players to a new area in the guild. Use the existing areas in the guildhalls, or use other areas in the cities to accomplish it.
The Thieves Guild player base is just not the same as its "Golden Age" as a lot of people seem to recall or want a return to. I came up in that era with players like Soim, Kraelyst, Subai, Snea, Izude etc, and while they brought their own flavor to the guild, they didn't define the guild, they were creative and made the guild fun because of their creativity using what they had at the time (who doesn't love reading about Merauds Lavender Quest, or the ferry Thug Patrols?). Just because they are gone doesn't mean that later on younger players or even an old timer can't take up their roles in the future. It's all about creativity and using what is available to make the guild better overall, it doesn't take a new area to accomplish this. If the idea is solid, or if the players RP is consistent, it doesn't matter who or what it is, others will want to join in and participate when they have the opportunity.
In regards to a Trader selling Fade weapons on their tables though, this isn't even news and honestly who was really surprised it happened, this is just a redressed version of the Ambika weapons of years ago, it's the same fight with the same storyline and it's going to happen again in the future with some other mechant and some other Trader. We have the resources to handle it just as before. You either buy the weapon, you threaten/harrass the Trader until they stop, you Thug the Trader etc etc. It's the same now as it was back then.
Blackguard Danoryiel
"Sogan udazama umbunor fau arrazoi inishatu seiremisai. (Only the fallen have nothing to despair)"
SIMU-SOLOMON
Re: Sandar and Latathi selling Fade weapons in the Plaza
06/20/2011 12:22 PM CDT
<<I like the idea of sticking a climbing wall and a bucket in the same room. Perhaps attach a very small mining area (one room, digging a new passage?) and a way to forage alchemy ingredients, and we'd be golden once braiding/pyramids stop being the way to train Mech.>>
I can pretty safely say that creating a private, enclosed, restricted access "one-stop-shopping" room for thieves (or any other guild) to train in totally unhindered and without risk simply isn't going to happen.
Solomon
I can pretty safely say that creating a private, enclosed, restricted access "one-stop-shopping" room for thieves (or any other guild) to train in totally unhindered and without risk simply isn't going to happen.
Solomon
FUTILITY
Re: Sandar and Latathi selling Fade weapons in the Plaza
06/20/2011 12:29 PM CDT
>>Futility you really took this on a weird tangent.... why is it completely on your shoulders to organize and establish the RP for the entire thief's guild? Did I miss a post where someone said you, as in YOU PERSONALLY, had to do it? I'm sorry your real life has such strenuous demands and requirements.
Someone posited that if I want it to happen, I have to do it myself (and it was an accusatory, singular you, not a general you). I explained why I feel I cannot.
I'm quite happy (British quite) with what role-play I do have on other characters that are not Thieves. I just feel that the Thieves Guild has lost so much of what originally made it interesting, paralleling or precipitating the decline in interest in DR in general (I have no evidence linking causation, just observing that it is a possibility).
I'd rather not go round-and-round with those who feel that snarky comments about my account name -- which was actually a reaction to the decline in Thief role-play, ironically -- and my own comments which I have tried to keep straight forward if not necessarily positive as Solomon asked me many months ago. I get where the irascibility comes from. I just find it counterproductive.
Someone posited that if I want it to happen, I have to do it myself (and it was an accusatory, singular you, not a general you). I explained why I feel I cannot.
I'm quite happy (British quite) with what role-play I do have on other characters that are not Thieves. I just feel that the Thieves Guild has lost so much of what originally made it interesting, paralleling or precipitating the decline in interest in DR in general (I have no evidence linking causation, just observing that it is a possibility).
I'd rather not go round-and-round with those who feel that snarky comments about my account name -- which was actually a reaction to the decline in Thief role-play, ironically -- and my own comments which I have tried to keep straight forward if not necessarily positive as Solomon asked me many months ago. I get where the irascibility comes from. I just find it counterproductive.
SIMU-SOLOMON
Re: Sandar and Latathi selling Fade weapons in the Plaza
06/20/2011 12:54 PM CDT
Also, Danyoriel hit the nail right on the head.
No GMs were responsible for "the old days" that are being reminisced here. That was 100% on the shoulders of players. Did GMs ever do anything to help or facilitate things after they were rolling? Sure. But that was all to help and make things that players were doing easier. Another thing to point out: generally speaking, the players didn't come to us and say things like, "Hey I'm wanting to do this, so I need about 50 Xs, a couple of Ys, and as many Zs as you will give me." Kraelyst never asked for the Locksmith Union Keys, or worse, said he "had to have them" to make it work. Those were offered long after the Union was up and running.
It's also not up to one individual, but I can safely say you should never underestimate the power of one person doing something and when asked, simply saying, "This is the way it's done in This Guild." Those who want to start a revolution, so to speak, need to start with themselves. Eventually when enough people see things happening, it becomes urban legend.
Heck, my PC started the whole "licking your lockpick makes it easier to pick" thing. It wasn't long before everyone was doing it that way (and I've seen people STILL doing it very recently) and people would chide those who didn't for "doing it wrong". And how do you think blue flowers and red flowers and lavender myths got started? That was something I was taught from early, early on and I never went out without a pouch full of them. I wouldn't be surprised if my PC still had some of each in his inventory right now.
The GMs set the table. We put out the food. We put out the silverware and the plates. The tone and mood of the meal is up to you. If you want to treat it like your last meal, where you grab everything you can reach and shove it into your mouth as quickly as possible until you're totally stuffed (as many of you seem to have done), then that's your option. You'll be sick at the thought of eating anything else and mutter and grumble about how the food wasn't that good anyway and you're surprised people are still eating. If you want to savor the meal, taking your time, tasting as many things as you can so you can fully enjoy yourself for as long as possible (as many others of you have done), then that's your option, too.
But remember that it's also a really big table, so people on one side or off down on that end of the table may do things their own way. They may prefer this fork over that. They may eat their mashed potatoes with a knife. They may eat their pizza with a knife and form. It doesn't prevent you from doing things the way you want and hopefully encouraging those around you that your way is "the right way".
Solomon
No GMs were responsible for "the old days" that are being reminisced here. That was 100% on the shoulders of players. Did GMs ever do anything to help or facilitate things after they were rolling? Sure. But that was all to help and make things that players were doing easier. Another thing to point out: generally speaking, the players didn't come to us and say things like, "Hey I'm wanting to do this, so I need about 50 Xs, a couple of Ys, and as many Zs as you will give me." Kraelyst never asked for the Locksmith Union Keys, or worse, said he "had to have them" to make it work. Those were offered long after the Union was up and running.
It's also not up to one individual, but I can safely say you should never underestimate the power of one person doing something and when asked, simply saying, "This is the way it's done in This Guild." Those who want to start a revolution, so to speak, need to start with themselves. Eventually when enough people see things happening, it becomes urban legend.
Heck, my PC started the whole "licking your lockpick makes it easier to pick" thing. It wasn't long before everyone was doing it that way (and I've seen people STILL doing it very recently) and people would chide those who didn't for "doing it wrong". And how do you think blue flowers and red flowers and lavender myths got started? That was something I was taught from early, early on and I never went out without a pouch full of them. I wouldn't be surprised if my PC still had some of each in his inventory right now.
The GMs set the table. We put out the food. We put out the silverware and the plates. The tone and mood of the meal is up to you. If you want to treat it like your last meal, where you grab everything you can reach and shove it into your mouth as quickly as possible until you're totally stuffed (as many of you seem to have done), then that's your option. You'll be sick at the thought of eating anything else and mutter and grumble about how the food wasn't that good anyway and you're surprised people are still eating. If you want to savor the meal, taking your time, tasting as many things as you can so you can fully enjoy yourself for as long as possible (as many others of you have done), then that's your option, too.
But remember that it's also a really big table, so people on one side or off down on that end of the table may do things their own way. They may prefer this fork over that. They may eat their mashed potatoes with a knife. They may eat their pizza with a knife and form. It doesn't prevent you from doing things the way you want and hopefully encouraging those around you that your way is "the right way".
Solomon
SIMU-SOLOMON
Re: Sandar and Latathi selling Fade weapons in the Plaza
06/20/2011 12:59 PM CDT
Also, I checked:
In the kidskin waistcoat you see a white gold ring, a cambrinth medallion, a twisted amber glass flask, a delicate cobalt glass flask, an opalescent black glass flask, a delicate cobalt glass flask, some chocolate hearts, a silver lockpick case, a gold invitation, an embossed parchment invitation, a fake goatee, a bank book, a sunburst brooch, a seashell, a dizzy-looking Elf doll, some honey-dipped garlic, a mottled egg, a bat talisman, some wine-poached pears, a chicken feather, a carved gilded pick, a crystal pick, a twisted ceremonial dagger, a crow talisman, a wild boar charm, a web key, a small cinnamon bear, a snifter of Elothean windhaze, an albredine crystal ring, a lion's tooth, a wolf spider eye, a jadice flower, a rabbit talisman, some wine-poached pears, a blue flower, a red flower, a red flower, a blue flower, a blue flower, a blue flower, a blue flower, a blue flower, a red flower, a red flower, a forest green bank book, a parchment card, a long love card, a parchment card, a crisp ivory invitation, an envelope, a pale pink envelope and a slip of parchment.
Solomon
In the kidskin waistcoat you see a white gold ring, a cambrinth medallion, a twisted amber glass flask, a delicate cobalt glass flask, an opalescent black glass flask, a delicate cobalt glass flask, some chocolate hearts, a silver lockpick case, a gold invitation, an embossed parchment invitation, a fake goatee, a bank book, a sunburst brooch, a seashell, a dizzy-looking Elf doll, some honey-dipped garlic, a mottled egg, a bat talisman, some wine-poached pears, a chicken feather, a carved gilded pick, a crystal pick, a twisted ceremonial dagger, a crow talisman, a wild boar charm, a web key, a small cinnamon bear, a snifter of Elothean windhaze, an albredine crystal ring, a lion's tooth, a wolf spider eye, a jadice flower, a rabbit talisman, some wine-poached pears, a blue flower, a red flower, a red flower, a blue flower, a blue flower, a blue flower, a blue flower, a blue flower, a red flower, a red flower, a forest green bank book, a parchment card, a long love card, a parchment card, a crisp ivory invitation, an envelope, a pale pink envelope and a slip of parchment.
Solomon
BLCKGRD4
Re: Sandar and Latathi selling Fade weapons in the Plaza
06/20/2011 01:10 PM CDT
Haha, I remember the that lickin the lockpick thing and the flowers (what was it again, blue for mana, red for vitality? hahaha)
Blackguard Danoryiel
"Sogan udazama umbunor fau arrazoi inishatu seiremisai. (Only the fallen have nothing to despair)"
Blackguard Danoryiel
"Sogan udazama umbunor fau arrazoi inishatu seiremisai. (Only the fallen have nothing to despair)"
GERSTEINJ2
Re: Sandar and Latathi selling Fade weapons in the Plaza
06/20/2011 01:16 PM CDT
it was blue for harness, red for vitality. and lots and lots of lavender.
War is Peace, Truth is Lies. -george orwell
RIP Kalag.
War is Peace, Truth is Lies. -george orwell
RIP Kalag.
ICON1
Re: Sandar and Latathi selling Fade weapons in the Plaza
06/20/2011 01:54 PM CDT
My Thief has always tried to adhere to the old code, but ISTR a few years ago being shouted down for living in the past. Funny how things swing around again.
As I recall it became more difficult to do anything like enforce a code because it became a consent minefield. As someone pointed out earlier the Thief GM used to have our backs, but for a while once those old and bold GMs left there wasn't much we could do to enforce it. You could only ask, be told no, and go on your way. If you feel like going back far enough, I am sure you can find posts where Thieves supporting the idea of the code were in a minority, everyone wanted to be billy badass and go it alone and thumb their nose at any kind of Thiefly authority.
Another thing to point out is that our 'deterrents' for breaking what few rules remain are woefully inadequate. Our thugs seem to be relatively weak, so while thuggings may have resulted in death 10 years ago, they will hardly bother a lot of today's characters. GM thugs depend on there being someone around to activate them.
I don't usually get a great deal of time to play, so I spend most of it training. It's going to be hard to break that habit for myself and probably a good deal of others.
As I recall it became more difficult to do anything like enforce a code because it became a consent minefield. As someone pointed out earlier the Thief GM used to have our backs, but for a while once those old and bold GMs left there wasn't much we could do to enforce it. You could only ask, be told no, and go on your way. If you feel like going back far enough, I am sure you can find posts where Thieves supporting the idea of the code were in a minority, everyone wanted to be billy badass and go it alone and thumb their nose at any kind of Thiefly authority.
Another thing to point out is that our 'deterrents' for breaking what few rules remain are woefully inadequate. Our thugs seem to be relatively weak, so while thuggings may have resulted in death 10 years ago, they will hardly bother a lot of today's characters. GM thugs depend on there being someone around to activate them.
I don't usually get a great deal of time to play, so I spend most of it training. It's going to be hard to break that habit for myself and probably a good deal of others.
SIMU-SOLOMON
Re: Sandar and Latathi selling Fade weapons in the Plaza
06/20/2011 02:02 PM CDT
<<As someone pointed out earlier the Thief GM used to have our backs, but for a while once those old and bold GMs left there wasn't much we could do to enforce it.>>
Examples?
Solomon
Examples?
Solomon
ICON1
Re: Sandar and Latathi selling Fade weapons in the Plaza
06/20/2011 02:30 PM CDT
>Examples?
Yeah I have logs from 10 years ago :/
You picked that one paragraph out of the whole post to try and discredit the theory that it has changed, but if you can look back at the style and flavour of GM postings in the Thief folders from 10 years ago and look at the (scant) postings now. Then tell me you need examples of how it has changed. Nobody dared step out of line back then or if they did they could expect retribution. I remember sitting in the old guild when a certain well known Thief who had gone against the guild was summarily executed by Soim, Shaydee and possibly one other (I forget). That was the kind of thing you could expect to see regularly if you hung around long enough.
Yeah I have logs from 10 years ago :/
You picked that one paragraph out of the whole post to try and discredit the theory that it has changed, but if you can look back at the style and flavour of GM postings in the Thief folders from 10 years ago and look at the (scant) postings now. Then tell me you need examples of how it has changed. Nobody dared step out of line back then or if they did they could expect retribution. I remember sitting in the old guild when a certain well known Thief who had gone against the guild was summarily executed by Soim, Shaydee and possibly one other (I forget). That was the kind of thing you could expect to see regularly if you hung around long enough.
GERSTEINJ2
Re: Sandar and Latathi selling Fade weapons in the Plaza
06/20/2011 02:31 PM CDT
<<the Thief GM used to have our backs, but for a while once those old and bold GMs left there wasn't much we could do to enforce it.>>
example?
Shaydee saw a thief mouthing off about secrets outside the guild. She got the thief gm thru her connections <she was a mentor>, and he "brought kalag to live", and had a little talking-to with said thief. Complete with his tongue being cut out.
Another example. Schvartz found a thief in the shard guild showing an empath around inside. This was right during Simucon98, and i was at the computerstation there playing inbetween events at the con. I spoke to Czarra and Gonk right there, and that thief quickly found out it wasn't a good idea to let an outsider in, plus the guild got "fixed" so you couldn't bring in outsiders.
War is Peace, Truth is Lies. -george orwell
example?
Shaydee saw a thief mouthing off about secrets outside the guild. She got the thief gm thru her connections <she was a mentor>, and he "brought kalag to live", and had a little talking-to with said thief. Complete with his tongue being cut out.
Another example. Schvartz found a thief in the shard guild showing an empath around inside. This was right during Simucon98, and i was at the computerstation there playing inbetween events at the con. I spoke to Czarra and Gonk right there, and that thief quickly found out it wasn't a good idea to let an outsider in, plus the guild got "fixed" so you couldn't bring in outsiders.
War is Peace, Truth is Lies. -george orwell
SIMU-SOLOMON
Re: Sandar and Latathi selling Fade weapons in the Plaza
06/20/2011 02:45 PM CDT
<<You picked that one paragraph out of the whole post to try and discredit the theory that it has changed>>
Not at all. I'm simply asking you to provide examples so I know what you're talking about. Otherwise, it's just more of the same "oh it was better back in the old days" talk, which is all well and good, but it's not really that helpful (or accurate). You can say "The GMs had our back in the old days" as much as you want, but I can also say, "The GMs were tougher on you and were much more restrictive back in the old days" too. I can also say, "It seemed like the GMs 'had your back' because quite a few of them did whatever they wanted without approval or had no one paying attention to them in the first place, which lead to quite a few problems."
But again, without actual examples, I have no idea what you're talking about.
So many people say "Bring back the Old X" because they only remember (or mis-remember) one or two good things about it and forget all the realities.
<<I remember sitting in the old guild when a certain well known Thief who had gone against the guild was summarily executed by Soim, Shaydee and possibly one other (I forget).>>
Sure, but that had nothing to do with the GMs. Those were players doing their thing.
Solomon
Not at all. I'm simply asking you to provide examples so I know what you're talking about. Otherwise, it's just more of the same "oh it was better back in the old days" talk, which is all well and good, but it's not really that helpful (or accurate). You can say "The GMs had our back in the old days" as much as you want, but I can also say, "The GMs were tougher on you and were much more restrictive back in the old days" too. I can also say, "It seemed like the GMs 'had your back' because quite a few of them did whatever they wanted without approval or had no one paying attention to them in the first place, which lead to quite a few problems."
But again, without actual examples, I have no idea what you're talking about.
So many people say "Bring back the Old X" because they only remember (or mis-remember) one or two good things about it and forget all the realities.
<<I remember sitting in the old guild when a certain well known Thief who had gone against the guild was summarily executed by Soim, Shaydee and possibly one other (I forget).>>
Sure, but that had nothing to do with the GMs. Those were players doing their thing.
Solomon
SIMU-SOLOMON
Re: Sandar and Latathi selling Fade weapons in the Plaza
06/20/2011 02:47 PM CDT
<<Shaydee saw a thief mouthing off about secrets outside the guild. She got the thief gm thru her connections <she was a mentor>, and he "brought kalag to live", and had a little talking-to with said thief. Complete with his tongue being cut out. >>
Nothing is stopping that from happening now.
<<Another example. Schvartz found a thief in the shard guild showing an empath around inside. This was right during Simucon98, and i was at the computerstation there playing inbetween events at the con. I spoke to Czarra and Gonk right there, and that thief quickly found out it wasn't a good idea to let an outsider in, plus the guild got "fixed" so you couldn't bring in outsiders.>>
That's a bug and it being fixed had nothing to do with Gonk and Czarra being "cool Thief GMs".
Solomon
Nothing is stopping that from happening now.
<<Another example. Schvartz found a thief in the shard guild showing an empath around inside. This was right during Simucon98, and i was at the computerstation there playing inbetween events at the con. I spoke to Czarra and Gonk right there, and that thief quickly found out it wasn't a good idea to let an outsider in, plus the guild got "fixed" so you couldn't bring in outsiders.>>
That's a bug and it being fixed had nothing to do with Gonk and Czarra being "cool Thief GMs".
Solomon
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Sandar and Latathi selling Fade weapons in the Plaza
06/20/2011 03:05 PM CDT
>>I remember sitting in the old guild when a certain well known Thief who had gone against the guild was summarily executed by Soim, Shaydee and possibly one other (I forget). That was the kind of thing you could expect to see regularly if you hung around long enough.
>>Shaydee saw a thief mouthing off about secrets outside the guild. She got the thief gm thru her connections <she was a mentor>, and he "brought kalag to live", and had a little talking-to with said thief. Complete with his tongue being cut out.
But, you can essentially do either of those things now.
The only problem is that [general] your particular side might not be the strongest one.
A lot of the issues appear to revolve around the fact that "the big guns in the guild used to support everyone doing X, and now they don't." I say that because it seems that a lot of the reminiscing involves a very high level Thief or two or three who supported [general] your view of guild ideology and enforcement. Now that they're gone, and the person who is comfortable openly talking about the guild may be bigger or as big as the enforcers of [general] your ideology, the guild has "gone wrong."
>>Shaydee saw a thief mouthing off about secrets outside the guild. She got the thief gm thru her connections <she was a mentor>, and he "brought kalag to live", and had a little talking-to with said thief. Complete with his tongue being cut out.
But, you can essentially do either of those things now.
The only problem is that [general] your particular side might not be the strongest one.
A lot of the issues appear to revolve around the fact that "the big guns in the guild used to support everyone doing X, and now they don't." I say that because it seems that a lot of the reminiscing involves a very high level Thief or two or three who supported [general] your view of guild ideology and enforcement. Now that they're gone, and the person who is comfortable openly talking about the guild may be bigger or as big as the enforcers of [general] your ideology, the guild has "gone wrong."
BLCKGRD4
Re: Sandar and Latathi selling Fade weapons in the Plaza
06/20/2011 03:20 PM CDT
>>Nothing is stopping that from happening now
^This
The way that I see things, it's the players themselves that determine how the guild operates. The GM's provide us with the tools and perhaps a helping hand here and there with things, but it's mainly the players that determine things. In the case of Soim killing other thieves back in the day with supposed impunity was based both on reputation and his consistent style of play. He may have gotten a pass from the GM's for an "unconsented kill" but we all expected and accepted that that is how things were. That isn't to say that GM's condonded what he did, just that we policed ourselves for the most part. And as Solomon stated, there's nothing stopping that from happening now. If someone wants to take up the mantle of the guild Enforcer, they can't be afraid to receive a warning or two in the process, as i'm sure Soim and others probably got from time to time.
I'm no RP guru by any stretch of the imagination, nor am I the type to go enforcing anything through PvP methods, this is just how I see things. The guild is what the players make of it, not the GM's.
Blackguard Danoryiel
"Sogan udazama umbunor fau arrazoi inishatu seiremisai. (Only the fallen have nothing to despair)"
^This
The way that I see things, it's the players themselves that determine how the guild operates. The GM's provide us with the tools and perhaps a helping hand here and there with things, but it's mainly the players that determine things. In the case of Soim killing other thieves back in the day with supposed impunity was based both on reputation and his consistent style of play. He may have gotten a pass from the GM's for an "unconsented kill" but we all expected and accepted that that is how things were. That isn't to say that GM's condonded what he did, just that we policed ourselves for the most part. And as Solomon stated, there's nothing stopping that from happening now. If someone wants to take up the mantle of the guild Enforcer, they can't be afraid to receive a warning or two in the process, as i'm sure Soim and others probably got from time to time.
I'm no RP guru by any stretch of the imagination, nor am I the type to go enforcing anything through PvP methods, this is just how I see things. The guild is what the players make of it, not the GM's.
Blackguard Danoryiel
"Sogan udazama umbunor fau arrazoi inishatu seiremisai. (Only the fallen have nothing to despair)"
GERSTEINJ2
Re: Sandar and Latathi selling Fade weapons in the Plaza
06/20/2011 03:27 PM CDT
<<I'm simply asking you to provide examples so I know what you're talking about. >>
okay. you want examples, even though its a dead horse? Ok.
I'll give you an example. It goes to 2 seperate instances, but it revolves around the same issue. Which will be passe under the crafting system anyway. So... its a dead horse now. But it does go to the issue at hand because it shows GM willingness to work with our RP.
Prime:
Lockpicks. Prime - Kraelyst and the union basically set a price on masterpicks of 4 gold. thieves selling for more got a visit from "union reps". strongarmed into basically keeping the price at that point. Enforced thru the practice of stealing said seller or thief blind until they conformed to the "rule". Lockpick union was supported when Royce became GM.
Plat:
Lockpicks. Weren't given or sold outside of guilded Thieves.Back when Sini, Max, Fumier were the highest ones in guild, Shayddow was put on as a guild "enforcer" by Thief GM. <was on a sign in the old guildhall>
When I found someone who was using one we got together and strongarmed <via words, not crossbows> said person to let us know their source, and it was dealt with. And had recourse to Enforcer mechanics to get in touch with GM if couldn't do it on my own. This again was during the Royce era. Which actually happened in the case of one thief <name starts with D>.
I think if you go back far enough on plat boards you can find the incident.
Our RP with crafted-lockpicks-only-for was opposed by a certain plat bard who is now a GM if not an SGM - so, there's little chance of anything like this being put into motion at any rate.
When I reactivated plat account and came back with Shayddow, the now-highest thief in plat <not giving names, but nickname is squirrel> basically said when asked not to sell lockpicks to outsiders "you and what army?". And there is no GM-support. So the issue got dropped.
War is Peace, Truth is Lies. -george orwell
okay. you want examples, even though its a dead horse? Ok.
I'll give you an example. It goes to 2 seperate instances, but it revolves around the same issue. Which will be passe under the crafting system anyway. So... its a dead horse now. But it does go to the issue at hand because it shows GM willingness to work with our RP.
Prime:
Lockpicks. Prime - Kraelyst and the union basically set a price on masterpicks of 4 gold. thieves selling for more got a visit from "union reps". strongarmed into basically keeping the price at that point. Enforced thru the practice of stealing said seller or thief blind until they conformed to the "rule". Lockpick union was supported when Royce became GM.
Plat:
Lockpicks. Weren't given or sold outside of guilded Thieves.Back when Sini, Max, Fumier were the highest ones in guild, Shayddow was put on as a guild "enforcer" by Thief GM. <was on a sign in the old guildhall>
When I found someone who was using one we got together and strongarmed <via words, not crossbows> said person to let us know their source, and it was dealt with. And had recourse to Enforcer mechanics to get in touch with GM if couldn't do it on my own. This again was during the Royce era. Which actually happened in the case of one thief <name starts with D>.
I think if you go back far enough on plat boards you can find the incident.
Our RP with crafted-lockpicks-only-for was opposed by a certain plat bard who is now a GM if not an SGM - so, there's little chance of anything like this being put into motion at any rate.
When I reactivated plat account and came back with Shayddow, the now-highest thief in plat <not giving names, but nickname is squirrel> basically said when asked not to sell lockpicks to outsiders "you and what army?". And there is no GM-support. So the issue got dropped.
War is Peace, Truth is Lies. -george orwell
SIMU-SOLOMON
Re: Sandar and Latathi selling Fade weapons in the Plaza
06/20/2011 03:41 PM CDT
<<In the case of Soim killing other thieves back in the day with supposed impunity was based both on reputation and his consistent style of play. He may have gotten a pass from the GM's for an "unconsented kill" but we all expected and accepted that that is how things were. That isn't to say that GM's condonded what he did, just that we policed ourselves for the most part. >>
And no one knows whether he got a talking to or a Warning for doing it either. Not saying he did, I'm just saying that he or anyone else may have done what they did and taken their lumps from us afterwards. It's not like we announce who gets warnings or cautions or even talked to.
Solomon
And no one knows whether he got a talking to or a Warning for doing it either. Not saying he did, I'm just saying that he or anyone else may have done what they did and taken their lumps from us afterwards. It's not like we announce who gets warnings or cautions or even talked to.
Solomon
SIMU-SOLOMON
Re: Sandar and Latathi selling Fade weapons in the Plaza
06/20/2011 04:03 PM CDT
<<Lockpicks. Prime - Kraelyst and the union basically set a price on masterpicks of 4 gold. thieves selling for more got a visit from "union reps". strongarmed into basically keeping the price at that point. Enforced thru the practice of stealing said seller or thief blind until they conformed to the "rule". Lockpick union was supported when Royce became GM.>>
Yes, as you said, Kraelyst did that on his own. Also, the Locksmith Union wasn't any more supported on not supported by Royce than any other GM.
Pretty much everything else in your post was done by players acting on their own.
"Enforcers" were given no special "powers" to get information to any GM that I'm aware of.
I think you're reminiscing about the "Royce Era" with some giant Rose Colored Goggles from inside a giant Rose Colored Aquarium and I'm pretty sure you're making that Era a lot more encompassing than it really was.
Solomon
Yes, as you said, Kraelyst did that on his own. Also, the Locksmith Union wasn't any more supported on not supported by Royce than any other GM.
Pretty much everything else in your post was done by players acting on their own.
"Enforcers" were given no special "powers" to get information to any GM that I'm aware of.
I think you're reminiscing about the "Royce Era" with some giant Rose Colored Goggles from inside a giant Rose Colored Aquarium and I'm pretty sure you're making that Era a lot more encompassing than it really was.
Solomon
AMONAMARTH
Re: Sandar and Latathi selling Fade weapons in the Plaza
06/20/2011 04:05 PM CDT
> When I reactivated plat account and came back with Shayddow, the now-highest thief in plat <not giving names, but nickname is squirrel> basically said when asked not to sell lockpicks to outsiders "you and what army?". And there is no GM-support. So the issue got dropped.
It's just ludicrous to think that a character in a shadowy guild off the straight-and-narrow might dare want to do things their own way. What it comes down to is that her response was a perfect chance to initiate some thief RP, which as it turns out, you don't need a GM for. You appeared to find your text too precious to have conflict, so nothing came of it. Them's the breaks.
It's just ludicrous to think that a character in a shadowy guild off the straight-and-narrow might dare want to do things their own way. What it comes down to is that her response was a perfect chance to initiate some thief RP, which as it turns out, you don't need a GM for. You appeared to find your text too precious to have conflict, so nothing came of it. Them's the breaks.
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Sandar and Latathi selling Fade weapons in the Plaza
06/20/2011 04:05 PM CDT
>>the now-highest thief in plat <not giving names, but nickname is squirrel>
...you kinda suck at not naming names. Just saying.
That said, once again, it seems like "the guild has gone downhill" revolves more around "the guild's biggest dogs don't agree with where I want the guild to go!" with a side-order of "And because I can't win, and the GMs won't help me win, that means Team Not My Viewpoint is winning!," not that it went downhill.
...you kinda suck at not naming names. Just saying.
That said, once again, it seems like "the guild has gone downhill" revolves more around "the guild's biggest dogs don't agree with where I want the guild to go!" with a side-order of "And because I can't win, and the GMs won't help me win, that means Team Not My Viewpoint is winning!," not that it went downhill.
VEE-REX
Re: Sandar and Latathi selling Fade weapons in the Plaza
06/20/2011 04:09 PM CDT
Sitting and waiting won't accomplish anything.
I haven't been seeing a whole bunch of 'Thief gathering' posts or 'secret Thief meetings' or anything of that nature. There doesn't appear to be any attempt right now.
Are you (general) expecting GMs to suddenly make an announcement and declare that they'll appoint enforcers and bring some flavor to the guild? No, the players need to take initiative on roleplay events and have open invitations to GMs in order to spice things up.
Will every event be GMPC supported? No. But without giving it effort you'll never re-create or revive the guild personality.
If my main was a Thief and I wanted to create something this would be a prime opportunity to ascend within the guild (RP-wise). I'd make my own code and get supporters, or make it and find a leader if I wanted to follow.
Individuals, families, countries, continents are destroyed at the heavy hand of Vinjince.
-GM Abasha
I haven't been seeing a whole bunch of 'Thief gathering' posts or 'secret Thief meetings' or anything of that nature. There doesn't appear to be any attempt right now.
Are you (general) expecting GMs to suddenly make an announcement and declare that they'll appoint enforcers and bring some flavor to the guild? No, the players need to take initiative on roleplay events and have open invitations to GMs in order to spice things up.
Will every event be GMPC supported? No. But without giving it effort you'll never re-create or revive the guild personality.
If my main was a Thief and I wanted to create something this would be a prime opportunity to ascend within the guild (RP-wise). I'd make my own code and get supporters, or make it and find a leader if I wanted to follow.
Individuals, families, countries, continents are destroyed at the heavy hand of Vinjince.
-GM Abasha
JBSB
Re: Sandar and Latathi selling Fade weapons in the Plaza
06/20/2011 04:10 PM CDT
>>Pretty much everything else in your post was done by players acting on their own.
OMG ARPEES WHAT?!!
>>I think you're reminiscing about the "Royce Era" with some giant Rose Colored Goggles from inside a giant Rose Colored Aquarium and I'm pretty sure you're making that Era a lot more encompassing than it really was.
I think this is a HUGE problem with thieves in plat. If you don't like the way thieves are being played in plat now, guess what? RP it out instead of constantly complaining about what used to be. I didn't need a GM to tell me that it was okay for me to sell lockpicks or not. I made a choice for my character and roleplayed that choice. If someone came along and killed her for it, I would be okay with that, too! Because it's my text and I don't mind if it gets a little broken sometimes.
- Badmommasquirrel (YES, THE ONE SHE WAS TALKING ABOUT IN PLAT gasp)
You push a tiny beanbag homunculus along the ground, exclaiming, "Super-'Monculus hunts for juicy angleworms!"
OMG ARPEES WHAT?!!
>>I think you're reminiscing about the "Royce Era" with some giant Rose Colored Goggles from inside a giant Rose Colored Aquarium and I'm pretty sure you're making that Era a lot more encompassing than it really was.
I think this is a HUGE problem with thieves in plat. If you don't like the way thieves are being played in plat now, guess what? RP it out instead of constantly complaining about what used to be. I didn't need a GM to tell me that it was okay for me to sell lockpicks or not. I made a choice for my character and roleplayed that choice. If someone came along and killed her for it, I would be okay with that, too! Because it's my text and I don't mind if it gets a little broken sometimes.
- Badmommasquirrel (YES, THE ONE SHE WAS TALKING ABOUT IN PLAT gasp)
You push a tiny beanbag homunculus along the ground, exclaiming, "Super-'Monculus hunts for juicy angleworms!"
GERSTEINJ2
Re: Sandar and Latathi selling Fade weapons in the Plaza
06/20/2011 04:19 PM CDT
<<If someone came along and killed her for it, I would be okay with that, too!>>
give me another 5 years :-)
ain't no way a 44th thief is going to take on a 120plus? or whatever you are now.its not a matter of "text-hurt". shayddow isn't suicidal.
War is Peace, Truth is Lies. -george orwell
give me another 5 years :-)
ain't no way a 44th thief is going to take on a 120plus? or whatever you are now.its not a matter of "text-hurt". shayddow isn't suicidal.
War is Peace, Truth is Lies. -george orwell
