Since a GM chimed in and said Vanish was not suppose to break grapple without a check ( even though the ability clearly states its an escape all combat ability ). I'd like to point out that Whole Displacement and Contingency both break grapple with no checks too.
CATHULU3
DIMINISHEDANGEL
Re: Invisibility and grapple
08/29/2020 04:04 AM CDT
Both Contingency and WD require a moon up, Contingency requires either a Moonbeam or Seer's Sense link, WD is a pulsing battle spell with a short duration that most MMs don't bother keep active.
Vanish is a get-out-of-jail free card with no external requirements, set-up before-hand, or skillchecks. Now, the concentration cost of Vanish is huge, so it's balanced fine for what it is, but those are very different abilities you're comparing it to. I could go either way on the grapple thing, makes sense that it would get out of grapple but kind of makes sense it doesn't also.
Vanish is a get-out-of-jail free card with no external requirements, set-up before-hand, or skillchecks. Now, the concentration cost of Vanish is huge, so it's balanced fine for what it is, but those are very different abilities you're comparing it to. I could go either way on the grapple thing, makes sense that it would get out of grapple but kind of makes sense it doesn't also.
BENNETTJ13
Re: Invisibility and grapple
08/30/2020 09:04 PM CDT
GL Speech - Crow smiles crookedly before signing, "One of my latest inventions. Once you've got down how to make people overlook you, you can even get away from any and all engagements (Except grapples!) you might be in quick as the blink of an eye. Still doesn't last long, but you can reform the meditation almost immediately if it's broken. You'll need to be seventieth circle, and know Silence."
Player view - Tapping into the well of mental power within, you focus on a world without your presence in it. Through determined concentration, you achieve a limited subversion of reality, becoming unseen and removed from danger (Unless someone is touching you).
Can we get these changed then? Not to seem petty, but I'm being petty.
Why on earth would you be able to break all engagements but one type? Does anything else have a selective engagement type? This seems a bit silly. There's plenty of things that break engagement. Is it that it's just hard to fix/don't want to?
Monster Elec
Community first. Guild always.
Player view - Tapping into the well of mental power within, you focus on a world without your presence in it. Through determined concentration, you achieve a limited subversion of reality, becoming unseen and removed from danger (Unless someone is touching you).
Can we get these changed then? Not to seem petty, but I'm being petty.
Why on earth would you be able to break all engagements but one type? Does anything else have a selective engagement type? This seems a bit silly. There's plenty of things that break engagement. Is it that it's just hard to fix/don't want to?
Monster Elec
Community first. Guild always.
DIMINISHEDANGEL
Re: Invisibility and grapple
08/31/2020 09:19 AM CDT
>Does anything else have a selective engagement type?
None of the other disengagement abilities that bypass grapple are all:
A) Instant
B) Zero skill/stat-check
C) No prior setup
D) No external requirements
Please stop harping on about Vanish's literal one downside without acknowledging it is already the best disengagement ability in the entire game in the majority of instances.
None of the other disengagement abilities that bypass grapple are all:
A) Instant
B) Zero skill/stat-check
C) No prior setup
D) No external requirements
Please stop harping on about Vanish's literal one downside without acknowledging it is already the best disengagement ability in the entire game in the majority of instances.
LOCUTIS1
Re: Invisibility and grapple
09/02/2020 05:56 AM CDT
>>Please stop harping on about Vanish's literal one downside without acknowledging it is already the best disengagement ability in the entire game in the majority of instances.
Yeah good call, its a great disengagement mechanic, that dosnt work, so stop harping. Ok thanks for your 2 cents that you struggled to find just so you could have an input.
DIMINISHEDANGEL
Re: Invisibility and grapple
09/02/2020 03:15 PM CDT
>Yeah good call, its a great disengagement mechanic
It is.
>that dosnt work
Works for literally everything but grapple.
>so stop harping.
I'm not against the idea of it working against grapple, but stop saying "Contingency does it therefore Vanish should," because Contingency has no less than five limitations and set-up prerequisites Vanish doesn't.
A Contingency version of Vanish would be like if it made you escape from grapple only you had to MARK someone before-hand every 15 minutes and it completely fails if it's sunny outside.
It is.
>that dosnt work
Works for literally everything but grapple.
>so stop harping.
I'm not against the idea of it working against grapple, but stop saying "Contingency does it therefore Vanish should," because Contingency has no less than five limitations and set-up prerequisites Vanish doesn't.
A Contingency version of Vanish would be like if it made you escape from grapple only you had to MARK someone before-hand every 15 minutes and it completely fails if it's sunny outside.
BENNETTJ13
Re: Invisibility and grapple
09/08/2020 12:35 PM CDT
>Please stop harping on about Vanish's literal one downside without acknowledging it is already the best disengagement ability in the entire game in the majority of instances.
No. I don't think I will. I don't believe it is correct. And while someone mentioned seeing a GM confirm it, I've not seen or heard of that. So until one posts here or a link is provided, I'm not inclined to believe that it's a done deal.
If it's meant to be like this then whatever, but I then argue that the cost is too high for something so critical and the messaging absolutely indicates otherwise. Thematically it fits for Thieves. No one is asking to be able to spam it over and over. At 30 conc per use, Vanish is already costly (the second most expensive behind Eliminate). I don't even care if GM's want to make it MORE expensive still, and put it on par with Eliminate. But the whole idea behind Vanish is that it is supposed to "ninja vanish" and nope you out of harms way.
Also, I have an item I can use to break all engagement and do damage to anyone engaged to me at the time. Its limited, but the function is there. It's entirely possible. And it checks all the boxes on your list except an external component I guess? It's a thing. It's rare, but it's a thing. Much like many items that mimic guild abilities.
Monster Elec
Community first. Guild always.
No. I don't think I will. I don't believe it is correct. And while someone mentioned seeing a GM confirm it, I've not seen or heard of that. So until one posts here or a link is provided, I'm not inclined to believe that it's a done deal.
If it's meant to be like this then whatever, but I then argue that the cost is too high for something so critical and the messaging absolutely indicates otherwise. Thematically it fits for Thieves. No one is asking to be able to spam it over and over. At 30 conc per use, Vanish is already costly (the second most expensive behind Eliminate). I don't even care if GM's want to make it MORE expensive still, and put it on par with Eliminate. But the whole idea behind Vanish is that it is supposed to "ninja vanish" and nope you out of harms way.
Also, I have an item I can use to break all engagement and do damage to anyone engaged to me at the time. Its limited, but the function is there. It's entirely possible. And it checks all the boxes on your list except an external component I guess? It's a thing. It's rare, but it's a thing. Much like many items that mimic guild abilities.
Monster Elec
Community first. Guild always.
