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Has anyone noticed their hide/stalk/backstab training a bit more evenly the last few days while using the backstab verb? Mine has gone from something like 34/34/15 to something like 26/23/15 in less time. It almost looks like some hide/stalk exp is being shaved off and added to backstab. No strict monitoring here, just off the cuff observation.
Kaxis
>You tap a hooded huckleberry hound-pelt cloak that you are wearing.
URUTU
REWYN
Re: Change?
05/01/2012 10:17 AM CDT
Backstab training is one of the worst things I remembered about playing my old thief. Hopefully its been improved.
GIZMODO
Re: Change?
05/01/2012 10:46 AM CDT
And backstab is still horrible to train, least from what I have been noticing.
Which is silly since thieves are supposed to excel at it in all general idea and what not
AIM: DRSneakySnake
Which is silly since thieves are supposed to excel at it in all general idea and what not
AIM: DRSneakySnake
BARRACUDA
Re: Change?
05/20/2012 07:32 PM CDT
What is the general opinion on the best way to train this? I really struggle to learn the skill and right now it isn't even one that I use to circle. I typically use an iltesh and ambush back because spawn is generally not an issue. I'm currently at 190 ranks and I'm hunting in an area that teaches to around 300 in combats.
DIMINISHEDANGEL
Re: Change?
05/21/2012 01:15 AM CDT
>>What is the general opinion on the best way to train this?
General opinion is that the experience model for this is terrible to the point of being broken and needs to change.
General opinion is that the experience model for this is terrible to the point of being broken and needs to change.
NINEVAH1
Re: Change?
05/21/2012 05:15 AM CDT
You're doing it the best way by using ambush. Target a harder spot than the back if you can though. Try going for the head or eyes, and as long as you are not failing to slip behind them, then you are still passing the contest, and should learn it a tiny bit faster. It's slow no matter what though.
MITHYLDR
Re: Change?
05/21/2012 02:51 PM CDT
I throw in ambush sight/screen and ambush slash to my routine and it seems to help move backstab plus I get some nice LT experience as well.
ICON1
Re: Change?
05/23/2012 11:58 AM CDT
Whilst running my backstab script today I counted how many attacks it took to move up 1 mindstate.
Using a simple Stalk, Feint Back, rinse and repeat script it took 8 attacks to move Backstab between mindstates. Add in the hide/stalk RT and critter auto retreat mechanics while you are hidden and it is easy to see why it takes so long to train.
Using a simple Stalk, Feint Back, rinse and repeat script it took 8 attacks to move Backstab between mindstates. Add in the hide/stalk RT and critter auto retreat mechanics while you are hidden and it is easy to see why it takes so long to train.
NOVEMBERRAIN
Re: Change?
05/25/2012 02:05 AM CDT
>>backstab is still horrible to train
>>broken and needs to change
>>You're doing it the best way by using ambush.
>>It's slow no matter what though.
>>took 8 attacks to move Backstab between mindstates.
>>it takes so long to train.
Locked in 20 kills.
5-6 hits per kill, for about 100-120 attacks total. Aborting after the 20th kill at 33/34, that's 3 attacks per mindstate. And all in under 19 minutes.
Backstab verb only, no feinting or head/eye targeting or whatever is being advertised as the "only/best" way to train a "horribly broken" and "impossible" skill to train.
382 backstab. Hunting at-level critters.
Someone's already posted his methods and advice for training backstab quickly and efficiently multiple times now. I chose to follow that advice, and it works amazingly well. Just because you choose to train in a poor and inefficient manner doesn't mean the skill itself is broken. Just your methods.
>>broken and needs to change
>>You're doing it the best way by using ambush.
>>It's slow no matter what though.
>>took 8 attacks to move Backstab between mindstates.
>>it takes so long to train.
Locked in 20 kills.
5-6 hits per kill, for about 100-120 attacks total. Aborting after the 20th kill at 33/34, that's 3 attacks per mindstate. And all in under 19 minutes.
Backstab verb only, no feinting or head/eye targeting or whatever is being advertised as the "only/best" way to train a "horribly broken" and "impossible" skill to train.
382 backstab. Hunting at-level critters.
Someone's already posted his methods and advice for training backstab quickly and efficiently multiple times now. I chose to follow that advice, and it works amazingly well. Just because you choose to train in a poor and inefficient manner doesn't mean the skill itself is broken. Just your methods.
PEICHAR
Re: Change?
05/25/2012 11:53 AM CDT
The key is finding the proper critters. Right now, I can't get backstab past 8/34, but the critters I'm hunting are a bit below my level while I also try to train up some of my other weapons. A month ago, when I was hunting in undershard, in the warrens, those critters were at level for me, and my backstab locked within 20 minutes. I did have to hunt --> hunt 1 to go after those thugs because the spawn was not in the same room, but because of the desolation of the area it wasn't a problem.
"Sometimes I have parties at my house in Nashville and it's clothing-optional, and we just body-paint each other and run around." -Ke$ha
"Sometimes I have parties at my house in Nashville and it's clothing-optional, and we just body-paint each other and run around." -Ke$ha
GRIM45
Re: Change?
05/25/2012 12:05 PM CDT
+1 on Undershard. I love that hunting area. I really wish I could have stayed there longer.
TG, TG, GL, et al.
"Disagreement with the fundamental plan at this point is akin to supporting Richard III vs the Tudors."
-Raesh
TG, TG, GL, et al.
"Disagreement with the fundamental plan at this point is akin to supporting Richard III vs the Tudors."
-Raesh
MKIBBE1
Re: Change?
05/25/2012 07:50 PM CDT
What are you using to stab? Got a really low puncture weapon?
ICON1
Re: Change?
05/26/2012 11:32 AM CDT
Yeah it is good if you can find the right critters and hit the sweet spot but it shouldn't require things to be so specific as the moon being in the 3rd phase on a mild winter night, the skill should be equally viable to train on all/most critters being that it is essentially a weapon skill in the survival skillset. Just wait til you run out of backstabbable bipeds in your range/location then see how easy it is.
NOVEMBERRAIN
Re: Change?
05/26/2012 02:37 PM CDT
>>Just wait til you run out of backstabbable bipeds in your range/location then see how easy it is.
I know for a fact the same method I use teaches well over 800 ranks. And that it IS easy. Location really has nothing to do with it. If you don't want to make the effort to find somewhere to train it, when you'd move all over Elanthia to train your combats, then that's your own fault and laziness. Don't complain and shift blame over what you're not willing to do.
>>Yeah it is good if you can find the right critters and hit the sweet spot but it shouldn't require things to be so specific as the moon being in the 3rd phase on a mild winter night, the skill should be equally viable to train on all/most critters being that it is essentially a weapon skill in the survival skillset.
And that you would complain about "finding the right critter" is just ridiculous. What, even the field goblins should teach you? If you want to learn a weapon skill well, you hunt something AT LEVEL for that skill. If you want to learn what is "essentially a weapon skill" like backstab well, you hunt something at level for THAT skill. If your backstab is ahead or behind your weapon skills, you can't expect the exact same critters to teach everything. It has nothing to do with "the moon being in the 3rd phase on a mild winter night" and everything to do with treating it like the weapon skill you all keep calling it and training it accordingly.
I know for a fact the same method I use teaches well over 800 ranks. And that it IS easy. Location really has nothing to do with it. If you don't want to make the effort to find somewhere to train it, when you'd move all over Elanthia to train your combats, then that's your own fault and laziness. Don't complain and shift blame over what you're not willing to do.
>>Yeah it is good if you can find the right critters and hit the sweet spot but it shouldn't require things to be so specific as the moon being in the 3rd phase on a mild winter night, the skill should be equally viable to train on all/most critters being that it is essentially a weapon skill in the survival skillset.
And that you would complain about "finding the right critter" is just ridiculous. What, even the field goblins should teach you? If you want to learn a weapon skill well, you hunt something AT LEVEL for that skill. If you want to learn what is "essentially a weapon skill" like backstab well, you hunt something at level for THAT skill. If your backstab is ahead or behind your weapon skills, you can't expect the exact same critters to teach everything. It has nothing to do with "the moon being in the 3rd phase on a mild winter night" and everything to do with treating it like the weapon skill you all keep calling it and training it accordingly.
ICON1
Re: Change?
05/27/2012 02:16 PM CDT
I meant in your combat range of course.
I didn't mean literally any critter, just ones in your range.
If the majority say it is broken and the minority say it isn't, chances are, it's broken.
I didn't mean literally any critter, just ones in your range.
If the majority say it is broken and the minority say it isn't, chances are, it's broken.
NOVEMBERRAIN
Re: Change?
05/27/2012 05:39 PM CDT
But it does train on critters in your range. It's just a matter of remembering your regular combat range is NOT the same as your backstab range. Backstab is a type of weapon, and it's in the primary skillset, whereas weapons are secondary. It will train faster if you're doing it right.
If you have a weapon at 100 ranks and another at 600 ranks, you'd go elsewhere for each weapon, right? You wouldn't expect to train them in the exact same spot on the same critters. Mages will tell you it's the same for TM. If it outpaces their weapons enough, they have to either let it sit until everything gets caught up and they can move to a new hunting ground, or they begin splitting their training between two places. Well, backstab works exactly the same way. You have to find something in range for that particular skill. At least in the thief's case, they're luckier than the mage, as they have two of the most potent defenses in their primary skillset; evasion and stealth.
If you have a weapon at 100 ranks and another at 600 ranks, you'd go elsewhere for each weapon, right? You wouldn't expect to train them in the exact same spot on the same critters. Mages will tell you it's the same for TM. If it outpaces their weapons enough, they have to either let it sit until everything gets caught up and they can move to a new hunting ground, or they begin splitting their training between two places. Well, backstab works exactly the same way. You have to find something in range for that particular skill. At least in the thief's case, they're luckier than the mage, as they have two of the most potent defenses in their primary skillset; evasion and stealth.
YAMCER
Re: Change?
05/27/2012 06:14 PM CDT
<<It will train faster if you're doing it right.>>
Your assertion that "everyone is doing it wrong" continues to be totally baseless until you actually take the time to show what it is that everyone else is doing differently from you.
<<If you have a weapon at 100 ranks and another at 600 ranks, you'd go elsewhere for each weapon, right?>>
No I wouldn't since my defenses would be at the level of the 600 in weapons I would train low grade weapons where I hunt, using disablers and boosters to make sure I connect. But with melee weapons you gain exp in the weapon from parry so it is even easier to back train than a ranged would be.
With my character having above 600 in stealths but having backstab trailing at 500 ranks it is painfully obvious that there is a big issue with how the skill trains compared to stealth and weapons. I'm hunting at level in Malchata and it takes FOREVER to lock backstab ambushing a body part that gives about 70% rate on a masterful position and doesn't kill too quickly.
The skill shouldn't take a spreadsheet of data and hours of configuration tweaking in order to train properly. This is the definition of a skill that is in dire need of a look at.
Yamcer
"You know, while I understand the importance of seeing the (personal) validity in other's arguments, it's impossible for me to believe fully that others are correct. If their argument was correct, I'd change mine." - My GF
Your assertion that "everyone is doing it wrong" continues to be totally baseless until you actually take the time to show what it is that everyone else is doing differently from you.
<<If you have a weapon at 100 ranks and another at 600 ranks, you'd go elsewhere for each weapon, right?>>
No I wouldn't since my defenses would be at the level of the 600 in weapons I would train low grade weapons where I hunt, using disablers and boosters to make sure I connect. But with melee weapons you gain exp in the weapon from parry so it is even easier to back train than a ranged would be.
With my character having above 600 in stealths but having backstab trailing at 500 ranks it is painfully obvious that there is a big issue with how the skill trains compared to stealth and weapons. I'm hunting at level in Malchata and it takes FOREVER to lock backstab ambushing a body part that gives about 70% rate on a masterful position and doesn't kill too quickly.
The skill shouldn't take a spreadsheet of data and hours of configuration tweaking in order to train properly. This is the definition of a skill that is in dire need of a look at.
Yamcer
"You know, while I understand the importance of seeing the (personal) validity in other's arguments, it's impossible for me to believe fully that others are correct. If their argument was correct, I'd change mine." - My GF
GERSTEINJ2
Re: Change?
05/27/2012 06:43 PM CDT
<<If you have a weapon at 100 ranks and another at 600 ranks, you'd go elsewhere for each weapon, right?>>
you are starting out with a false premise. I have ME and LE prime with all 3 of my thieves -although at different levels -<prime,plat,TF> <which screws me with them combining in 3.0, but it was done for the sake of backstab.> They are approximately equivalent to my backstab ranks <which are a little bit over, but not enough to put me into a different combat bracket, critter-wise>. And BS doesn't train as well.
<going along with the majority here>
/---
Oh and last one, DR at any given time has a population of weenies that will criticize at the drop of a hat, don't take things personally it happens to everyone.
Leucius
you are starting out with a false premise. I have ME and LE prime with all 3 of my thieves -although at different levels -<prime,plat,TF> <which screws me with them combining in 3.0, but it was done for the sake of backstab.> They are approximately equivalent to my backstab ranks <which are a little bit over, but not enough to put me into a different combat bracket, critter-wise>. And BS doesn't train as well.
<going along with the majority here>
/---
Oh and last one, DR at any given time has a population of weenies that will criticize at the drop of a hat, don't take things personally it happens to everyone.
Leucius
NOVEMBERRAIN
Re: Change?
05/27/2012 06:44 PM CDT
>>Your assertion that "everyone is doing it wrong" continues to be totally baseless until you actually take the time to show what it is that everyone else is doing differently from you.
I'm pretty sure I've spelled out exactly what I'm doing multiple times. I use the backstab verb, I don't feint necks for 3 hours, and I'm hunting critters in the range of my backstab skill. I mean, what more do you want? Logs? My script? Last guy who posted logs and numbers and basically gift-wrapped the solution to the backstab problem for you all just got a lot of arguments and pretty much laughed at. But hey, I listened to what he posted, and now I'm happy I don't have to spend hours trying to lock a skill while crying about how it's broken because I'm not willing to try anything different.
>>No I wouldn't since my defenses would be at the level of the 600 in weapons I would train low grade weapons where I hunt, using disablers and boosters to make sure I connect. But with melee weapons you gain exp in the weapon from parry so it is even easier to back train than a ranged would be.
That is just a smartass response. I should have seen it coming, though. If I had said "200 and 400 ranks" then someone would have just said "herp derp, then I'd go to gryphons because they'd both hit there." It's completely missing the point, though, being that sometimes you have to go to separate places to train different things when there's enough of a gap. Hence the included mage and TM example, but thanks for ignoring that one because you didn't have a clever reply to it.
It doesn't take a spreadsheet and hours of tweaking. Just common sense. Critter x teaches to y ranks. You've reached y ranks in backstab but not in regular combats, due to skillsets. You either let it stagnate until you can move up, or you find critter z that teaches beyond y. Almost every single other skill in DR works in this way. Why the surprise that backstab is no different?
I'm pretty sure I've spelled out exactly what I'm doing multiple times. I use the backstab verb, I don't feint necks for 3 hours, and I'm hunting critters in the range of my backstab skill. I mean, what more do you want? Logs? My script? Last guy who posted logs and numbers and basically gift-wrapped the solution to the backstab problem for you all just got a lot of arguments and pretty much laughed at. But hey, I listened to what he posted, and now I'm happy I don't have to spend hours trying to lock a skill while crying about how it's broken because I'm not willing to try anything different.
>>No I wouldn't since my defenses would be at the level of the 600 in weapons I would train low grade weapons where I hunt, using disablers and boosters to make sure I connect. But with melee weapons you gain exp in the weapon from parry so it is even easier to back train than a ranged would be.
That is just a smartass response. I should have seen it coming, though. If I had said "200 and 400 ranks" then someone would have just said "herp derp, then I'd go to gryphons because they'd both hit there." It's completely missing the point, though, being that sometimes you have to go to separate places to train different things when there's enough of a gap. Hence the included mage and TM example, but thanks for ignoring that one because you didn't have a clever reply to it.
It doesn't take a spreadsheet and hours of tweaking. Just common sense. Critter x teaches to y ranks. You've reached y ranks in backstab but not in regular combats, due to skillsets. You either let it stagnate until you can move up, or you find critter z that teaches beyond y. Almost every single other skill in DR works in this way. Why the surprise that backstab is no different?
NOVEMBERRAIN
Re: Change?
05/27/2012 07:08 PM CDT
>>They are approximately equivalent to my backstab ranks <which are a little bit over, but not enough to put me into a different combat bracket, critter-wise>. And BS doesn't train as well.
I think this might be because they're separate ranges. Every critter has both a range they'll teach for weapons, and one they'll teach for stealths. The things I hunt for backstabbing are usually just at my regular combat level or a step up, despite only an 80 rank difference. A small enough gap you'd think one critter could cover it, but really it just barely works. The closer you are to the top cap for the critter you're hunting, the slower it seems to move. Which, really, makes sense.
So far as my skills go:
Shield Usage: 317
Leather Armor: 322
Multi Opponent: 350
Light Edged: 303
Evasion: 398
Hiding: 458
Stalking: 446
Backstab: 384
Before, I was hunting in babies/youngs while training backstab in the manor. But it was getting slow, and due to the already poor spawn at times, it was making training painful. So I've moved to P5 and am now hunting there. I experimented a bit with different critters, and while the one I've chosen for regular training is a bit challenging and gets very risky when I have 4 on me (I'm just at the min to be hunting them, but I don't want to trek back and forth across the ice road to gryphons, so I'm making do,) they're just right for my backstabbing. I've gone from an hour to lock in the manor, back down to 20 minutes or less. I'm very pleased right now.
I think this might be because they're separate ranges. Every critter has both a range they'll teach for weapons, and one they'll teach for stealths. The things I hunt for backstabbing are usually just at my regular combat level or a step up, despite only an 80 rank difference. A small enough gap you'd think one critter could cover it, but really it just barely works. The closer you are to the top cap for the critter you're hunting, the slower it seems to move. Which, really, makes sense.
So far as my skills go:
Shield Usage: 317
Leather Armor: 322
Multi Opponent: 350
Light Edged: 303
Evasion: 398
Hiding: 458
Stalking: 446
Backstab: 384
Before, I was hunting in babies/youngs while training backstab in the manor. But it was getting slow, and due to the already poor spawn at times, it was making training painful. So I've moved to P5 and am now hunting there. I experimented a bit with different critters, and while the one I've chosen for regular training is a bit challenging and gets very risky when I have 4 on me (I'm just at the min to be hunting them, but I don't want to trek back and forth across the ice road to gryphons, so I'm making do,) they're just right for my backstabbing. I've gone from an hour to lock in the manor, back down to 20 minutes or less. I'm very pleased right now.
YAMCER
Re: Change?
05/27/2012 10:12 PM CDT
<<I use the backstab verb, I don't feint necks for 3 hours, and I'm hunting critters in the range of my backstab skill.>>
DP didn't work any better when I was hunting them (backstab-able) before moving to malchata (ambushing). Again I don't see how you can say "every player is doing it wrong" with nothing backing that up.
<<It doesn't take a spreadsheet and hours of tweaking. Just common sense. Critter x teaches to y ranks. You've reached y ranks in backstab but not in regular combats, due to skillsets.>>
Let's see, malchata teach max is 750 ranks or so (elanthipedia), I doubt I've reached the limit on them at 500 BS. Considering they ML Medium Edge at less ranks and ML Hiding at more ranks. The skill is a pain to learn and has been for years.
<<Critter x teaches to y ranks.>>
In your vast and mighty knowledge what critter teaches backstab at 500 ranks?
Yamcer
"You know, while I understand the importance of seeing the (personal) validity in other's arguments, it's impossible for me to believe fully that others are correct. If their argument was correct, I'd change mine." - My GF
DP didn't work any better when I was hunting them (backstab-able) before moving to malchata (ambushing). Again I don't see how you can say "every player is doing it wrong" with nothing backing that up.
<<It doesn't take a spreadsheet and hours of tweaking. Just common sense. Critter x teaches to y ranks. You've reached y ranks in backstab but not in regular combats, due to skillsets.>>
Let's see, malchata teach max is 750 ranks or so (elanthipedia), I doubt I've reached the limit on them at 500 BS. Considering they ML Medium Edge at less ranks and ML Hiding at more ranks. The skill is a pain to learn and has been for years.
<<Critter x teaches to y ranks.>>
In your vast and mighty knowledge what critter teaches backstab at 500 ranks?
Yamcer
"You know, while I understand the importance of seeing the (personal) validity in other's arguments, it's impossible for me to believe fully that others are correct. If their argument was correct, I'd change mine." - My GF
YAMCER
Re: Change?
05/27/2012 10:17 PM CDT
| Hiding: 458 |
| Backstab: 384 |
That difference is acceptable to you?
Because I'm at 633 hiding and 501 backstab and I don't find it acceptable.
Yamcer
"You know, while I understand the importance of seeing the (personal) validity in other's arguments, it's impossible for me to believe fully that others are correct. If their argument was correct, I'd change mine." - My GF
TALEEK
NOVEMBERRAIN
Re: Change?
05/28/2012 12:00 AM CDT
>>That difference is acceptable to you?
A 74 rank difference is highly acceptable, as I train stealth itself more. It gets trained both when I backstab and again when I do regular combats (I poach with a ranged,) and I don't always do as many backstabbing sessions in the time I'm logged in as I do regular ones. It depends on how long I have available to play.
A 74 rank difference is highly acceptable, as I train stealth itself more. It gets trained both when I backstab and again when I do regular combats (I poach with a ranged,) and I don't always do as many backstabbing sessions in the time I'm logged in as I do regular ones. It depends on how long I have available to play.
NOVEMBERRAIN
Re: Change?
05/28/2012 12:16 AM CDT
>>Again I don't see how you can say "every player is doing it wrong" with nothing backing that up.
Again I don't see how you can say "you have nothing backing that up" with all I've given so far.
>>In your vast and mighty knowledge what critter teaches backstab at 500 ranks?
I'd go with Taleek and suggest trying head-splitters. Wraiths are a bit of a pain due to being noncorporeal. You know, instead of complaining, you could go and actually try out critters. I didn't just sit around and wait for someone to figure it out for me first and then put it on Elanthipedia. If I am hunting something and it's not teaching well, I go try elsewhere.
But who knows. Maybe I just got lucky and was coded well. That's the only explanation I can think of of why people insist that certain things train differently on a thief-by-thief basis.
Again I don't see how you can say "you have nothing backing that up" with all I've given so far.
>>In your vast and mighty knowledge what critter teaches backstab at 500 ranks?
I'd go with Taleek and suggest trying head-splitters. Wraiths are a bit of a pain due to being noncorporeal. You know, instead of complaining, you could go and actually try out critters. I didn't just sit around and wait for someone to figure it out for me first and then put it on Elanthipedia. If I am hunting something and it's not teaching well, I go try elsewhere.
But who knows. Maybe I just got lucky and was coded well. That's the only explanation I can think of of why people insist that certain things train differently on a thief-by-thief basis.
JRSCORPION
Re: Change?
05/28/2012 01:31 AM CDT
Yamcer, of course backstab will always trail hiding. You have to hide to train backstab, but you don't have to backstab to train hiding. Your hiding exp pool will fill when you're poaching, stealing (assuming you hide), anytime you hide basically. Backstab pool fills only when you're backstabbing or ambushing.
I don't see why this is a problem, I have over 1k hiding now and over 800 backstab. They both train fine in the same hunting ground along with my weapons.
As far as what to backstab with 500 ranks, sky giants should be just about perfect, I think I started there at 497. It should take you probably 15-20 minutes to lock backstab; I wish I could say the same about LX!
Thieves should expect backstab to generally be harder to lock than their weapons since 1) it's a primary skill and 2) as a primary skill you'll have more ranks in it than in your weapons.
I don't see why this is a problem, I have over 1k hiding now and over 800 backstab. They both train fine in the same hunting ground along with my weapons.
As far as what to backstab with 500 ranks, sky giants should be just about perfect, I think I started there at 497. It should take you probably 15-20 minutes to lock backstab; I wish I could say the same about LX!
Thieves should expect backstab to generally be harder to lock than their weapons since 1) it's a primary skill and 2) as a primary skill you'll have more ranks in it than in your weapons.
JRSCORPION
Re: Change?
05/28/2012 02:16 AM CDT
A quick addendum to this conversation:
I just finished testing to see how long it takes me to lock backstab with 1k+ hiding and 800+ backstab.
11 minutes.
So... yeah, if you're taking half an hour or more, try a different technique.
I just finished testing to see how long it takes me to lock backstab with 1k+ hiding and 800+ backstab.
11 minutes.
So... yeah, if you're taking half an hour or more, try a different technique.
BARRACUDA
Re: Change?
05/29/2012 05:39 PM CDT
>A quick addendum to this conversation:
>I just finished testing to see how long it takes me to lock backstab with 1k+ hiding and 800+ backstab.
>11 minutes.
>So... yeah, if you're taking half an hour or more, try a different technique.
Which method are you using again?
>I just finished testing to see how long it takes me to lock backstab with 1k+ hiding and 800+ backstab.
>11 minutes.
>So... yeah, if you're taking half an hour or more, try a different technique.
Which method are you using again?
JRSCORPION
Re: Change?
05/31/2012 04:01 PM CDT
>Which method are you using again?
Just backstabbing using the backstab verb on bipeds.
Just backstabbing using the backstab verb on bipeds.
BEVERAGEK
Re: Change?
05/31/2012 05:11 PM CDT
>>Just backstabbing using the backstab verb on bipeds.
That's a little vague :P
Do you hide at melee and just type in BACKSTAB and repeat? Do you backstab certain body parts? What weapon do you use? Do you stance down? How does your backstab skill compare to the creature you're hunting, and which creature is it? What do your mentals look like?
These are all questions which I'd probably want to know the answers to if I were a Thief. For the record, I've never heard of anyone being able to train the Backstab skill as well as you claim to train it.
__
You hear the voice of Jaedren exclaim, "Look! I'm Leilond!"
You notice Jaedren come out of hiding.
Jaedren shimmers out of sight.
That's a little vague :P
Do you hide at melee and just type in BACKSTAB and repeat? Do you backstab certain body parts? What weapon do you use? Do you stance down? How does your backstab skill compare to the creature you're hunting, and which creature is it? What do your mentals look like?
These are all questions which I'd probably want to know the answers to if I were a Thief. For the record, I've never heard of anyone being able to train the Backstab skill as well as you claim to train it.
__
You hear the voice of Jaedren exclaim, "Look! I'm Leilond!"
You notice Jaedren come out of hiding.
Jaedren shimmers out of sight.
MRAUDIO2662
Re: Change?
05/31/2012 08:36 PM CDT
>>Just backstabbing using the backstab verb on bipeds.
>>That's a little vague :P
>>Do you hide at melee and just type in BACKSTAB and repeat? Do you backstab certain body parts? What weapon do you use? Do you stance down? How does your backstab skill compare to the creature you're hunting, and which creature is it? What do your mentals look like?
>>These are all questions which I'd probably want to know the answers to if I were a Thief. For the record, I've never heard of anyone being able to train the Backstab skill as well as you claim to train it.
You can't backstab specific body parts.
If the spawn is amazing in raiders I can lock backstab using backstab in about that same amount of time. Sadly the spawn is rarely that good.
~Nancy~
>>That's a little vague :P
>>Do you hide at melee and just type in BACKSTAB and repeat? Do you backstab certain body parts? What weapon do you use? Do you stance down? How does your backstab skill compare to the creature you're hunting, and which creature is it? What do your mentals look like?
>>These are all questions which I'd probably want to know the answers to if I were a Thief. For the record, I've never heard of anyone being able to train the Backstab skill as well as you claim to train it.
You can't backstab specific body parts.
If the spawn is amazing in raiders I can lock backstab using backstab in about that same amount of time. Sadly the spawn is rarely that good.
~Nancy~
JRSCORPION
Re: Change?
06/01/2012 12:08 AM CDT
>For the record, I've never heard of anyone being able to train the Backstab skill as well as you claim to train it.
Hey, only one can be the best. :D
I've documented my path including weapons, critters, and techniques here on the forums since late 2009, so there's really no big mystery to it. The issue is that people don't believe me, or argue 'that's not the way it should be.' You can lead a horse to water....
Hey, only one can be the best. :D
I've documented my path including weapons, critters, and techniques here on the forums since late 2009, so there's really no big mystery to it. The issue is that people don't believe me, or argue 'that's not the way it should be.' You can lead a horse to water....
JAREXLE
Re: Change?
06/01/2012 09:12 AM CDT
stalking 602
hiding 595
backstab 445
I hunt DP zealots currently, using either method backstab/feint eye it takes me 20+ minutes to lock. Since I easily lock hiding and stalking in zealots one could make the assumption that backstab should lock just fine there as well. So any suggestions as to why this is? The spawn in here is good enough that I am never without a critter, so there is no gap time.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BearTrap
Traps, coming soon to DR.
hiding 595
backstab 445
I hunt DP zealots currently, using either method backstab/feint eye it takes me 20+ minutes to lock. Since I easily lock hiding and stalking in zealots one could make the assumption that backstab should lock just fine there as well. So any suggestions as to why this is? The spawn in here is good enough that I am never without a critter, so there is no gap time.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BearTrap
Traps, coming soon to DR.
JRSCORPION
Re: Change?
06/02/2012 01:33 AM CDT
445 might be a bit high to learn backstab effectively there, I was in sky giants for those ranks. Earlier I said I started sky giants at 497 BS but no, it turns out it was 397, and I kept training BS there to the mid 500s.
Feint <body part> is really a horrible way to train backstab IMO, not only for everyone else in the hunting ground since you're not killing, but for you since it's so slow.
I suggest giving plague wraiths a try using the backstab verb. The bad thing about wraiths is you cant ambush sight, which is why I preferred sky giants.
Feint <body part> is really a horrible way to train backstab IMO, not only for everyone else in the hunting ground since you're not killing, but for you since it's so slow.
I suggest giving plague wraiths a try using the backstab verb. The bad thing about wraiths is you cant ambush sight, which is why I preferred sky giants.
JAREXLE
Re: Change?
06/02/2012 08:40 AM CDT
I'm confused. If I can learn hiding and stalking easily both of which are near 600 why couldn't I learn backstab since it's also in the survival skill set?
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BearTrap
Traps, coming soon to DR.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BearTrap
Traps, coming soon to DR.
TALEEK
Re: Change?
06/02/2012 08:44 AM CDT
Stealth will always learn faster just something you need to accept, moving to Wraiths is solid advice. Taleek spent almost a year in there.
JAREXLE
Re: Change?
06/02/2012 08:51 AM CDT
I never said it wasn't solid advice. I asked for clarification on why skills that are 130+ ranks higher than backstab can train just fine on a critter while backstab can't.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BearTrap
Traps, coming soon to DR.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BearTrap
Traps, coming soon to DR.
OSUS
Re: Change?
06/02/2012 08:57 AM CDT
I think it has something to do with how many different critters a stealth contest checks (hiding vs 4 sets of eyes)(stalking three different checks at 3 levels to get to the critter) versus the backstab contest only being the single critter you're facing at the time.
TALEEK
Re: Change?
06/02/2012 09:30 AM CDT
Clearly you don't like the answer provided, you can figure it out yourself.
KROONERMANREVENGE
Re: Change?
06/02/2012 10:26 AM CDT
>Clearly you don't like the answer provided, you can figure it out yourself.
Wanting someone to explain the mechanics of an answer is not 'disliking the answer'.
It's wanting to understand why it works that way. On paper, it doesn't make any sense that skills lower train worse while still being within the sweet spot for a critter.
Let's save us all some time: I'm a troll who rarely has anything helpful. There.
Wanting someone to explain the mechanics of an answer is not 'disliking the answer'.
It's wanting to understand why it works that way. On paper, it doesn't make any sense that skills lower train worse while still being within the sweet spot for a critter.
Let's save us all some time: I'm a troll who rarely has anything helpful. There.
