Do you have a scroll slot still open? If so, you should be able to alternate Devolve with Dispel on the creature to get around the duration limitation.

<<Also, I'm curious why HB is required for Swarm, but much harder to cast. Seems backwards to how the guild leaders would want to train their folk.

My speculation is that it's partly a holdover from prior to 3.0 since they were in that order back then. Also, thematically Swarm is an AoE summoning while HB is single target, so it makes sense that it comes after.

In general I don't think there's any rule about spells having to follow in increasing difficulty. There's lots in the Moon Mage guild that are like that as well, for example. Spell progression is more thematic in nature with an eye to different choices for the same path to a point, rather than tied to mechanical difficulty although that does play some part. E.g. The intro spell to each line is either intro or basic, since that needs to be that way for novices.

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I use Break Branch on my Ranger to train Debil and have from the start. I needed about 80-90 PM and ~40 Debil before I could cast it, but you don't have to deal with the problems you are describing.

I've brought up the issues with the easier spells being hidden behind harder/more spells than the harder to cast spells within the Ranger spellbook to Armifer. Unless they have the time/motivation to change it before hand I wouldn't expect to see much change with the spellbook until Rangers come up on the development priority list (They are on the short list after Traders and Paladins).

> Thank you both for the good suggestions. The Dispel option sounds really neat, but I use Manifest Force for my scroll slot.

It only costs 1 spell slot to expand your scroll slots to 2. It's a great option if you aren't dying a lot, even for your own guild's spells.

>>Check and see what appraise careful states for debilitating your target.

Just to clarify, this is not an accurate way to judge if something will teach you Debil or not (unless the recent Thief Debil changes applied to everyone).

Appraise careful compares your skill to their general defenses, but Debil success and learning is based off of the stat vs. stat contest. It's possible for appraise careful to say you should be able to learn well but if your stats overwhelm theirs then it's possible for you to not even be able to learn at all.

Knowing the stat contest of the debilitation that you are using and then using the stat comparison that appraise gives is a better way to know if you will learn off a certain critter or not.

Debilitation training is not like TM training. All Debilitation spells have duration. So if you are going to train them. You have to help yourself to be able to train them. As mentioned by one person he uses DeVOLVE and has reached 216 and can go higher. Here is the trick to it.

Spell stance needs to be used to lower the duration of your debil spells. Duration of 70 is what you should set it for. Second have more than one critter in the room. Cast debil spell on each critter not on the same one over and over. Feint a few times to keep your balance up. repeat the process. You do not learn anything when you cast the same spell on a critter that already has that effect working on them. So you must plan your casting in such a way as to maximize your ability to train it. When you get a second Debil spell this becomes a lot easier. You can cast on each critter with one, then switch to the next one and cast it on them again. With duration low by the time you finish the second spell, you can then move to the first spell and cycle through them till you lock the skill. Second you must understand when that spell affects the critter and when it does not. You will see a message that says the - The helices spin rapidly as it shrinks into the red leucro's chest, for example. This means your cast worked. If you do not see that you did not cast the spell with enough power. If you cast it at 5 and you see that, you have no reason to cast it higher, just start casting it on everything in the room till they are all affected. Also be aware the critters teach debil, TM, weapons, and defenses all around the same levels. So if you are not learning weapons or armor well you wont be learning debil well either unless debil is a lot lower than the rest.

In some cases the duration on your debil spell could be longer than normal and even with Spell stance duration set to 70, you might not be able to repeat the cast right away. So add something to your attack pattern. Say use a MANEUVER attack (MANUEVER HELP) or two, feint a few times. Then recast. I know for a fact with just devolve a ranger can get his debil skill over 350 without a lot of effort if you plan ahead what you need to do.

The perception that devolve does not train well is not right. It does train well and you do need it. ITs one of the few spells us rangers have we can cast in town during invasions and it is most certainly a spell that is needed during those invasions to help others be able to take out a critter at times. During invasions I always lock my debil magic using nothing but devolve. And I even make sure duration is set at 100 for invasions. I want that spell lasting as long as possible during invasions. Sometimes I use spell stance of 115 / 115 / 70 for invasions just to make sure that spell lasts as long as it can to help others in the room out the most.

Last us rangers have a spell that no one else has. Its called swarm. It refreshes on every cast, you will not find another debil spell that refreshes. When I really want to train I cast swarm till my fingers bleed (some day i going to make a script to do that so i don't work my hands so hard). Prep the spell and when its ready, use CAST CREATURES. You only need to prep it as high as you need to affect the critter. Then keep casting will you run out of mana.

Ranger Pfanston and his soggy pup.

Sorry, I'm a bit late to the dance on the one....get by with what you can until you can get swarm. While the spell itself isn't that handy it trains wonderfully and can be cast repeatedly to lock debilitation.

Gross. That's gross. You're gross.

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NaOH+HI

Any debilitation spell can train well. They are all running on the same system now.

The best ones are AOE and those that don't have long durations.

1) Calm is a good example of a short duration (breaks on attack)
2) Stuns (Why DMRS is so good!)

I don't try and train debilitation all at once. The best way is to weave it into normal attacks. Cast, and either wait for the debil to wear off, or kill the monster. Then recast.

If you are desperate for training and dont have AOE, Pfanston's suggestions are good. Cast on all the creatures in the room and/or shorten your duration. You can also stack your debilitation and get even more training time.

And stats absolutely matter. It's entirely possible to learn almost nothing with a SvS Magic yet learn 3 states with an SvS Fortitude.