Prev_page Previous 1 3
Trash Pandas for Everyone - Current Ranger Woes 12/08/2015 09:02 AM CST
Outside of the Wishlist thread, THIS thread is where I want to hear what pains you the most as a Ranger. Be detailed, because I'm not really familiar with Ranger training, so the more information you can tell me about your woes, the better staff can look into it.

What sort of stuff I want to hear:
* What skills are hard to train?
* What do you do to train them currently?
* This specific task could have better EXP output / I notice a lot less EXP gain at this EXP range.
* Current (thing) is not very effective for training (thing) and could use (this improvement.)
* I really hate it when I lose my companion by doing (thing) and have to start over.
* I think this (thing) is bugging because when I do (these things) it does something I think is inconsistent or wrong.

Please give me details! Giving me generic blanket statements on something is not helpful and is either going to make me disregard your post or ask you for clarification. Expect me to ask for clarification on things if you don't provide a lot of detail -- or even if you do, I might still have questions. Remember, I'm not an experienced Ranger player, YOU are, which is why I'm asking YOU.

PS: If your post is something offtopic, your post will get edited to say (Offtopic) just like in the Wishlist thread. Try to keep us on topic. If you want to tell someone they're stupid, do it in Conflict folder. If you notice someone's woe is training a thing, but you know a better way, SHARE IT HERE, but please make your post (Offtopic), especially if it does not include any Ranger Woes. If the wishlist thread totally prepared you to whinge (yes, whinge, look it up.) and groan about current spells, beseeches, companions, trails, etc, do it here! I want to hear all about it.

---
NaOH+HI
Reply
Re: Trash Pandas for Everyone - Current Ranger Woes 12/08/2015 05:14 PM CST
Naohhi,

The hardest thing I find to train is FA, in fact I've given up on training it. The compendiums still teach me a bit, but not well. (And I think I have the hardest one, has all the races in it.) My playing time is limited these days and I'm trying to maximize my cost/benefit ratio. Be nice to learn a bit of FA by keeping ourselves from going to the auto healers by using herbs. Not much experience say about 1-2% for curing one self from bleeding to healed? Just an idea. Err my FA is in 178 range if that helps.

I don't think it's just rangers I think everyone has trouble with FA once you get to 200 in FA or so, not sure of how high as mine is lower, but it takes SOOOOOO Long for me to lock it.

Sometimes Locks can be a bit of a pain to train, even with pick blind/disarm blind. I'm currently do the scout orc boxes, as the Germ's still are a bit above my melee weapons (not bow, but locks so fast). My pet peeve in the Rossman's area is that the abandoned village is considered a town area. I can understand that the manor could be considered a town area, but could we have the village proper maybe looked at to being moved to neutral? It's after all abandoned/ruined My locks are 288.

SPELLS
*WARNING WHAT FOLLOWS ARE PREJUDICED OPINONS*

Also I think some of our spells could stand to be looked at. Beseech is one that comes to mind. The initial mana cost is a bit to steep IMO. 20 Mana to even cast it, when it's improving one of our primary survival skills, I'd say lower the mana cost to start to the 10-15 mana range. Like some of the suggestions in wishlist, I'd change the name of Branch Break to entangle which would slow and at higher mana costs stun the target.

I'd like for Swarm to get some of it's deadliness back. It used to poison critters (and yourself if you weren't careful LOL). It bugs me that we don't have an AOE spell. I'd would almost do anything to get one.

Oh and one other thing can we get all the cutesy messages taken away from the messages while casting a spell?? Paklin and I went around and around on this one several years ago about the messaging I was getting on Branch Break when I cast it. Or at least to get to choose the least disagreeable messaging.

Sorry about the long post, but some things have been bugging me for a while.

Bluefalcon
Reply
Re: Trash Pandas for Everyone - Current Ranger Woes 12/08/2015 05:31 PM CST


Ok so I will go as easy with this as I can. I find utility and warding are prolly the toughest of the magics to train. To lock I normally research because we don't really have much when it comes to those spells use able in battle (blend, compost are weak trainers for utility) though I may be missing a way to do this better and happy to learn. For me and me alone that is my hardest things to train. I can not speak for bigger rangers on other things. I hope I did this right?
Reply
Re: Trash Pandas for Everyone - Current Ranger Woes 12/08/2015 05:34 PM CST
You are going to have to get some Analogous Patterns spells
Reply
Re: Trash Pandas for Everyone - Current Ranger Woes 12/08/2015 05:46 PM CST
// FA
Noted, even if it's more of a game-wide issue.

//Locksmithing
I believe another GM already has an open project that should help with this.

// Beseech is one that comes to mind
Which beseech?

//cutesy messages
I'm unfamiliar. What is this cute messaging?

// Utilty and Warding
What type of research do you use?
What current spell options do you have for these?
Are these two skills hard requirements for circling?

---
NaOH+HI
Reply
Re: Trash Pandas for Everyone - Current Ranger Woes (Offtopic) 12/08/2015 05:57 PM CST
>I find utility and warding are prolly the toughest of the magics to train
>though I may be missing a way to do this better and happy to learn

Do you use chaos symbiosis when casting? It'll increase the difficulty of the spell pattern and you should see better experience gain. You'll have to drop the prep amount so it'll be more mana efficient as well. Invoking an utility and/or warding (non-sorcerous) empath scroll spell/analagous patterns or invoking a sorcerous scroll will definitely help.



Vote:
http://www.topmudsites.com/vote-DragonRealms.html
Reply
Re: Trash Pandas for Everyone - Current Ranger Woes 12/08/2015 05:58 PM CST
Scouting - not hard but annoying to train. Hunt during combat rarely gets me above learning. Running trails works but takes 45 minutes of back and forth on a trail. Skill is mostly useless as well. All ferry times were cut in half, it's faster just to use them now. It doesn't decrease time on trails, doesn't do anything directly to combat like backstab, summoning, bardic lore etc. This skill could use an overall rework to become useful. Call it woodlore or something and give it some functionality. Currently at 500+ scouting skill.

Crafting - engineering/outfitting/alchemy - not hard but frustrating. Crafting was removed from the guilds it originated from and now they have become theoretically the worst crafters. Paladin for metal armor, Barbs for weapons, Rangers for leather. This was the foundation and partial reason for some people joining the guilds. Guilds that have an affinity for a craft should be able to train that skill as a primary skill set.

Magic:
Extremely high mana cost for very little reward. Ranger magic needs some TLC. Examples are our debils, can drop 80 mana into a BB and it will be resisted/avoided. Can drop 15 mana into an IP using 100 sorcery skill and can put the same person on their back. Spells flat out not working in urban or nuetral areas is frustrating as well, takes our already very limited options and reduces that further.

Beseeches are too niched to be productive. The large spirit cost make it unattractive.

Why doesn't STW affect HT? This feels inconsistent with the nature of the spell.
Reply
Re: Trash Pandas for Everyone - Current Ranger Woes (Offtopic) 12/08/2015 06:10 PM CST


I will give these a try. I use MAF I will see if I can adjust the other spells I train with.
Reply
Re: Trash Pandas for Everyone - Current Ranger Woes 12/08/2015 06:13 PM CST


Err I meant Earth Meld not beseech sorry about that. Sheesh bad memory.

The cutesy message I get on casting Branch break is "you gibber unintelligently for a moment" I'm not a warmage, if I was that'd sorta make sense.


Ummm there is a requirement for us in all magics except for TM ( I believe) I didn't address utilty and warding. My magics are high enough for me to circle for now.

Sorry about the confusion on Earth Meld.

Bluefalcon



Reply
Re: Trash Pandas for Everyone - Current Ranger Woes 12/08/2015 06:29 PM CST
Ditto on the Beseeches & magics that Sebastian mentioned. Some of the effects of beseeches are nice, but the cost to first of get them and then the spirit costs make me not use them at all. He hit it on the head with spells, our mana vs effect is really pitiful.

Crafting is also frustrating. I think if we specialize in something we should be able to learn it at a primary rate, as long as it is in our primary skill set. Especially leather armor, we should be able to get the hindrance down to no hindrance. I personally feel that leather should always be more protective than cloth unless it's paper thin leather vs a quilted gambeson. (Err that's the quilted cloth garment worn under chain mail & plate.

Bluefalcon
Reply
Re: Trash Pandas for Everyone - Current Ranger Woes 12/08/2015 07:47 PM CST
Defining the Ranger confound a little more clearly, and perhaps describe how it ties into Scouting if it does at all, would really help in terms of being able to make useful suggestions. So I guess that would be my first complaint/request about Rangers that hasn't been covered already, insofar as I'm invested in them.



Thayet
Twitter: @thayelf
Tumblr: thayette.tumblr.com
Reply
Re: Trash Pandas for Everyone - Current Ranger Woes (Offtopic) 12/08/2015 08:03 PM CST
This is subject to change, but what Zeyurn and I came up with way back when is:

There are literal spirits of nature. Like, there could be a rock, but there could also be a sentient rock, or tree, or whatever. The Ranger confound is thus a connection to and ability to negotiate with these spirit-creatures and be in harmony with them.

Raesh and I much later discussed some radically different directions for "the Ranger thing," so we're certainly open to negotiation.

-Armifer
"Perinthia's astronomers are faced with a difficult choice. Either they must admit that all their calculations were wrong ... or else they must reveal that the order of the gods is reflected exactly in the city of monsters." - Italo Calvino
Reply
Re: Trash Pandas for Everyone - Current Ranger Woes (Offtopic) 12/08/2015 08:17 PM CST
So...Shamanism with a heavy side of Aragorn? Rangers have plenty of the Aragorn, and not so much any of the Shaman stuff, so I feel like Rangers could benefit quite a bit from exploring the Shaman stuff.

"Spirit" is a term used a lot in DR's fiction, so just to be clear, are they beings native to this plane or connected in some way to beings from other planes (i.e. the Spiritual Plane or, however unlikely, the Plane of Probability)? What is their rough level of intelligence? Are dragons connected to these forces in any way? They seem to be.

A more interesting iteration of that IMO would be a twist on the Gaia hypothesis. You can speak to a waterfall or a tree or even a whole forest, but you're really speaking to a single facet of a much larger life force and intelligence that permeates the planet.



Thayet
Twitter: @thayelf
Tumblr: thayette.tumblr.com
Reply
Re: Trash Pandas for Everyone - Current Ranger Woes (Offtopic) 12/08/2015 08:22 PM CST
>>"Spirit" is a term used a lot in DR's fiction, so just to be clear, are they beings native to this plane or connected in some way to beings from other planes (i.e. the Spiritual Plane or, however unlikely, the Plane of Probability)? What is their rough level of intelligence? Are dragons connected to these forces in any way? They seem to be.

Again, emphasis that we're talking about something that could stand revision and will quite possibly change in the future:

To be clear, we're talking about living things native to the Plane of Abiding.

We never really settled on a general level of intelligence, though I always favored depictions of them being more animal than sapient. Life Magic, in general, doesn't scream for an association with sapience and higher thought the way Holy or Lunar does.

Dragons are... kinda sorta. Life Dragons were explicitly written to be a possible tie in to Ranger stuff in the future, but don't need to be. Dragons are totally tied into a magical symbiosis with nature that both magical and industrial pollution screws with. Whether Rangers are doing the same fundamental thing remains undefined.

-Armifer
"Perinthia's astronomers are faced with a difficult choice. Either they must admit that all their calculations were wrong ... or else they must reveal that the order of the gods is reflected exactly in the city of monsters." - Italo Calvino
Reply
Re: Trash Pandas for Everyone - Current Ranger Woes (Offtopic) 12/08/2015 09:13 PM CST
So ... Rangers are sort of attuned to their own plane? That's kind of poetic.


Your search-fu is pig dung!
Reply
Re: Trash Pandas for Everyone - Current Ranger Woes (Offtopic) 12/09/2015 06:21 AM CST
>Again, emphasis that we're talking about something that could stand revision and will quite possibly change in the future:

>To be clear, we're talking about living things native to the Plane of Abiding.

How about genus loci?
Reply
Re: Trash Pandas for Everyone - Current Ranger Woes 12/09/2015 08:23 AM CST
//Why doesn't STW affect HT? This feels inconsistent with the nature of the spell.

I don't know offhand. There may be a reason that I'd have to dig to find out.

//"you gibber unintelligently for a moment"
So you turn into a trash panda to make a branch break. Ok, I can sympathize with disliking this messaging.

// confound
I think I'm real tired of seeing this word. To address your point though, I don't know enough about Rangers to define that at all. I'm stepping in as a third party, largely uninformed, and trying to get enough information to be able to address things without royally screwing everything up.

// Crafting specailty loss
It might have been purposeful, but I have to leave that realm to Kodius to confirm/deny on.

// Beseech cost
Is the cost static or does it rise as you gain more skill?
What is the cost, generally, how much spirit?
How does Beseech alter your Ranger bonus, if at all?
What do you feel would be the more ideal cost?

---
NaOH+HI
Reply
Re: Trash Pandas for Everyone - Current Ranger Woes 12/09/2015 09:08 AM CST

Spell Flavor Messaging
Jalika's bb:
>You shake your head angrily at a zombie stomper.
>You contribute your harnessed streams to increase the pattern's potential.
>Small globes of blue and orange light appear and dart upward like fireflies.
>Creating an ominous shadow, a wide leafy limb falls from above!
>The limb slams heavily into a zombie stomper, knocking it completely out!
You also see "flavor" in See the Wind.
>As a growing amphibian sense washes over you, pale glowing lines appear before your eyes, delineating the ever-shifting currents of the wind.
The angry head thing works for my character. I've never really seen Jalika as amphibianesque but at least that doesn't show to other players.

Scouting
Automapper and scripts are faster than the majority of trails. I only take 2 trails in game - The one from Hib to shard west gate to avoid the ice patches, and the one from outside Gryphons to north of Langenfirth to avoid the rope bridge. The only reason (outside exp) to take a trail would be if it gives some kind of benefit. These shortcuts are often much longer, especially if you have wounds or burden.

Ranger "Bonus"
I often make the decision not to participate in something because it will penalize my skills and take time to fix them. THis might be attending an auction, visiting triage at temple or empaths, a group of friends chatting at a market table, etc. MON helps, but has limited duration and you need to be back in a wild spot to re-cast.

Companions
Once you have them at fully grown, there isn't much reason to keep them around (except RP). It only then continues to age them, bringing them to senile if you're lucky enough to have not lost them by then. I only bring my wolf out when I want to deliver a package. Raccoons weren't too bad with the corn and long term food storage. Maybe dried jerky meat that doest' spoil would make it simpler. But fear of losing hours of "growing" your companion because you went into the crossing bank and forgot to send them away, or took a trail, or accidentally smelled the wrong meat and instantly poisoned them to death gets old after a while.

Beseeches
Beseech the Sun to Dry - Bit of a party trick. Doest' have same quality for alchemy as pyramid, takes a long time per item. Would rather bulk dry. Okay for popcorn I guess.
Beseech Elanthia to Imbue - Only useful for trail rock?
Beseech the Wind to Clean - Practical, although janitor and compost duplicate.
Beseech Elanthia to Cradle - This is actually cool. Not sure if it gets utilized enough.
Beseech the Wind to Preserve - Not sure anyone uses this. I preserved a flower once.
Beseech Elanthia to Petrify - Hardens armor but adds hindrance. I never hear anyone talk about this. Not its used much.
Beseech the Dark to Sing - This is great, but the stun/collapes when it wears off means I'm more likely to hunt in the dark in an area I'm familiar with than put this beseech up.
Beseech Elanthia to Seal - Mostly useless with the Depart options and raising that is common these days.
Beseech the Water to Solidify - Cool solo, though big RT. Terrible with group mechanics. Your group will walk, but if they have low Athletics, they will get dragged by the river even though they are supposedly walking on top with you. THen you have to move back to their room (with large RT) and walk again, only to have them dragged. Made worse if multiple people with low Athletics.
Beseech the Wind to Refresh - I actually forgot this existing.
Beseech the Wind to Echo - A lot more work than a crystal ring.
Beseech Elanthia to Transfer - Useful! Probably my most used beseech, after I do decide to spend some time in town. If your bonus is too far gone though, you can't boost it up.

Personal Trail Markers
I have these have been pretty well hashed out, but clearing trails is something rangers should excel at, but they will really only be used if they give some kind of advantage. I don't think it has to be huge. Duration could go a long way with this. I don't know if its feasible, but perhaps allowing a trail to bypass a natural barrier if the rangers skill is adequate to cross it.


Crafting Affinity
Someone else mentioned leather as what rangers should be good at. I have always seen Jalika as the archer type and appreciated the old fletching system. Perhaps a ranger only instruction that Tolle (Lang Rather Guildleader who taught hunter's bows) which gives sniping edge? Or an add on (think scope, but something that fits better in Elanthia).



Lack of Advocate
I think this has been the most demoralizing for a while. Haven't seen any real dev outside making sure our magics didn't break during 3.0. Thank you for taking this on!
Reply
Re: Trash Pandas for Everyone - Current Ranger Woes (Offtopic) 12/09/2015 10:18 AM CST
Whoever was griping about locks and FA... If you haven't even breached the 200 rank mark yet, the existing systems work just fine. There's a handful of thieves with maxed (or pretty close to it) lockpicking. Maxed as in 1750. So it's more than trainable. Locks is a MILLION times easier than it ever was before. FA... Compendiums work wonders at your range. it gets substantially tougher as time goes on, especially without a pet bleeder, but once you get your schol through a rough spot, compendiums work again. Basically, FA sucks for everyone, not just rangers... but you are far from not being able to train it.

Monster Elec

You hear the distant echo of a savage Horde snarling in barbaric disapproval of your deeds.
Reply
Re: Trash Pandas for Everyone - Current Ranger Woes 12/09/2015 11:35 AM CST

I second most of what jalika said as for the whys and why not of using our special abilities. I also feel the same about bonus, wish it wouldnt fluctuate as rapidly as it does. Spell messaging never bothered me my branch break makes me look like a super saiyan and thats cool. I would be happy to see more advocacy and companion development. There are many good things we already have but don't use enough bc they are a little restricted.

Overall Im still pretty happy playing my ranger over other guilds tbh.

-Charlize
Reply
Re: Trash Pandas for Everyone - Current Ranger Woes 12/09/2015 11:57 AM CST
// Flavor messaging
The See the Wind flavoring is tied to a value on your character similar to the PIN. The last value, iirc.
As for the other messaging, what would be more ideal for most Rangers?

// Scouting
Heard on scripts/automapper being faster. I think when the ferries and such were adjusted down, Ranger trails were not looked into. What other things slow the trails down besides wounds?

// Ranger Bonus
Ideally, is it just that MON needs to have a longer duration, or that the drain of bonus needs to be slower to facilitate event participation for Rangers?

//Compaions
Would it be ideal for companions to not age / die?
Would it be ideal for rotten meat to change it's TAP when it's gone bad so you can more easily identify it?
If we were able to make "meat lockers" more available in lower than auction-quality capacity, would this make it easier and more desirable to utilize the current companion system?
What are all the ways you can currently lose a companion?

// Beseeches
Sun to Dry - Probably a consequence of the changing systems and should be updated to be more ideal.
Elanthia to Imbue - Are there other uses that could be identified?
Wind to Clean - What other potential uses could be worked into this?
Elanthia to Cradle - What does this do and why is it not being used anymore?
Wind to Preserve - What's the primary function? Was this an older alchemy system use that's not needed now?
Elanthia to Petrify - How much hindrance is gained? Can the hindrance be lowered in any way?
Dark to Sing - What's the stun/collapse like? How long?
Water to Solidify - If the Ranger has low Athletics, does the water also drag them? Should solid water work for non-Rangers in the Ranger's group?
Wind to Refresh - What does it do?
Wind to Echo - Presuming this is a low-grade private messaging system that's one way, what would be a good way to expand it and make it useful? Is the cost too high? Does it take too long? How's the cooldown?
Elanthia to Transfer - What does this do and how high is the cost? At what point is your bonus too low?

// Personal Trail Markers
This one got sort of touched on in the Wishlist thread, so I think I know enough about the current system to understand this.

// bonus, wish it wouldnt fluctuate as rapidly as it does
What's the timing like?

// more advocacy and companion development.
I'm by no means becoming the Ranger Advocate, but you can consider me an interm one.

---
NaOH+HI
Reply
Re: Trash Pandas for Everyone - Current Ranger Woes 12/09/2015 01:42 PM CST
I ditto those messages.

Scouting - Training scouting skill using "hunt" should, in my mind, keep up with perception training -or- scouting training should increase from running trails. Or both, even.

Companions - Is the wolf companion quest even working? Is it checking outdoorsmanship skill instead of animal husbandry? I've just begun my quest to find a wolf companion and haven't had luck so far, but maybe I'm doing something wrong? Has anyone gotten a wolf since 3.0? But agree - no reason to have a wolf/raccoon other than RP at this point.

Magic - I like our spells, but I just don't think we've got a reason WHY we have magic, how it works. The earlier discussion on the shaman versus Aragorn is a good discussion. I don't think I have a preference, though I like the idea of having a connection to living spirits in nature, I just want it developed.

Trails - I haven't done the math on these, I just know that it's quicker for me to run a travel script than to take a ranger trail, which I think defeats the purpose. Question - are there any trails that bypass the gondola? Because I feel like there should be. There should/could also be trails that travel from Boar Clan to Siksraja given their proximity on the map.

I'll try to come back when I have more time and can log in and test some things.
Reply
Re: Trash Pandas for Everyone - Current Ranger Woes 12/09/2015 01:48 PM CST
>>//Why doesn't STW affect HT? This feels inconsistent with the nature of the spell.

>>I don't know offhand. There may be a reason that I'd have to dig to find out.

When 3.0 was rolled in we were told by whoever was in charge at that time that weapon secondaries lost the ability to buff all mundane weapons and had to give one weapon skill up. Thieves lost slings and Rangers lost HT. I'm ok with this except that WM's can buff every mundane weapon + TM at the same time. Maybe this can be re-assessed please?
Reply
Re: Trash Pandas for Everyone - Current Ranger Woes 12/09/2015 08:49 PM CST

>The See the Wind flavoring is tied to a value on your character similar to the PIN. The last value, iirc.
>As for the other messaging, what would be more ideal for most Rangers?
I think the different animals are fine. And I think some of the BB messaging is fine to, I think the larger issue is they are being assigned to us as opposed to us having a choice in defining our characters traits/styles, especially the ones visible to other players.

>// Scouting
>Heard on scripts/automapper being faster. I think when the ferries and such were adjusted down, Ranger trails were not looked into. What other things slow the trails down besides wounds?
I believe its wounds, burden, skill (and if so, bonus tied to that?), and wounds/burden of any group members you have. I know if your bonus (or skill) is low enough you can't see the trail at all.

>// Ranger Bonus
>Ideally, is it just that MON needs to have a longer duration, or that the drain of bonus needs to be slower to facilitate event participation for Rangers?
Personally I'd like MON being longer, though I don't know that everyone would feel same. If drain of bonus is going to be slower, I'd assume that regaining bonus will also be slower and I don't think those without BESEECH TRANSFER are going to want to sit around for longer after getting into the mooing like a cow stage.


>//Compaions
>Would it be ideal for companions to not age / die?
I like that they are real creatures, and not just a familiars. Death shouldn't happen accidentally so easily though.
>Would it be ideal for rotten meat to change it's TAP when it's gone bad so you can more easily identify it?
Yes.
>If we were able to make "meat lockers" more available in lower than auction-quality capacity, would this make it easier and more desirable to utilize the current companion system?
Not sure what auction capacity is. I have one of the boxes that cools them, so it slows the spoiling but not enough for it to be worth keeping up with (for me personally). But yes, if we could freeze them in low capacities, I'd think that's helpful.
>What are all the ways you can currently lose a companion?
Things I've heard - going into "bad" rooms like the crossing bank. Taking a ranger trail. Not knowing what rooms might be bad basically means we would all signal them to leave, move to our new location, and then call them out again for fear or coming across something that might just make them disappear. I've seen wolves sent out to find someone and whimpering. Not sure if they can get lost on missions but that always terrified me to. I think its been difficult to pin down exactly what the issue is until you whistle and suddenly realize you don't have a companion. And of course, spoiled meat insta death.

I think it would be cool if instead of a companion dying from you going to the wrong room, or poisoning them, or you look at them funny, they instead "abandon" you because of a lack of trust. Can get them back either by passage of time or miniquest at the same stage of their growth. (This being a bandaid, and not the full rewrite I believe companions actually need).


>// Beseeches
>Sun to Dry - Probably a consequence of the changing systems and should be updated to be more ideal.
Cool!

>Elanthia to Imbue - Are there other uses that could be identified?
Maybe this beseech "slot" could just get overhauled into something useful. Do we really need to magic zen our rock to be able to mark a trail?

>Wind to Clean - What other potential uses could be worked into this?
Maybe a short duration fatigue boost ala zephyr?

>Elanthia to Cradle - What does this do and why is it not being used anymore?
Staunches blood flow but knocks you to the ground. Allows you to regain vitality before breaking the vines and running for help again. BUG - CS will bring you up to your feet while cradled. I think most people don't use it because most people don't use beseeches in general. I know I personally usually forget they exist, which is sad since its our cool rangerly thing. Plus with the plethora of empaths you can usually get there pretty quick before you bleed out. It has saved my life a few times though.

> beseech elanthia to cradle

You feel your spirit weaken.
You begin to chant as you connect with the soil of Elanthia.

You sense a loss of your inner-self and feel yourself go into shock as you crumple to the ground!
(Roundtime: 30 seconds)

PR>
The ground of Elanthia moans and shudders as cracks and small holes begin to open on the surface!
PR>
Vines begin to grow rapidly from the cracks and holes in the ground as the earth continues to moan and howl with a bone-chilling effect!
PR>
Like thousands of fingers seeking in the dark, the vines search you out and begin encasing you in a cocoon.
PR>
Having finished their work encasing you, the vines begin to restrict, strategically stopping the flow of blood.
PR>


>Wind to Preserve - What's the primary function? Was this an older alchemy system use that's not needed now?
It can preserve flowers in a pseudo frozen state. No one does this because how many flowers need preserving, and isn't that what flower preservation potions are for? It also slows meat decay, but again no one uses companions (Well, one ranger does but she's been through dozens of wolves. Sorry, Zinaca)

>Elanthia to Petrify - How much hindrance is gained? Can the hindrance be lowered in any way?
I wear the nightmare leathers plus a bunch of metal pieces, so presumably this is only effecting the hindrance
My normal hinderance - But considering all the armor and shields you are wearing or carrying, you are currently fairly (5/14) hindered and your stealth is lightly (4/14) hindered.
After petrify - But considering all the armor and shields you are wearing or carrying, you are currently somewhat (6/14) hindered and your stealth is lightly (4/14) hindered.
I'm unaware of a method of lowering the overall hindrance added by petrify, except general armor ranks training down hindrance.

>Dark to Sing - What's the stun/collapse like? How long?
I had remembered this worse than it is. 4 sec Rt, thrown to ground. I think its the thrown to ground in combat part I wanted to avoid like the plague.

>Water to Solidify - If the Ranger has low Athletics, does the water also drag them? Should solid water work for non-Rangers in the Ranger's group?
This is the messaging when the "Bridge" forms.
>The water ripples in overlapping circles as the shells of small turtles rise from the depths, creating a small path over the water on the safety of their backs.
I like the idea it works for a rangers group because its our version of water trailblazing.
You step lightly upon the footings appearing suddenly before you.
Roundtime: 7 sec.
You stride west, leading your group.
Its annoying that before I'm even out of RT from the walk, someone in my group gets dragged. Then I go back a room (with walk RT) and then forward again. This just gets multiplied if you have multiple people who get dragged. I've found it faster to simply drag a person through the water instead of using the beseech. Crossing the Faldesu to Haven I've even gone back and dragged a second person faster than the beseech would have allowed. I don't know about the low athletics being dragged. I don't think so, because I've used it to walk into the "death" area of the Jantspyre a long time ago and never got dragged down, but can't say for sure.

>Wind to Refresh - What does it do?
Vitality restoration with RT and throwing you again to the ground. (I'm noticing a trend now)

>Wind to Echo - Presuming this is a low-grade private messaging system that's one way, what would be a good way to expand it and make it useful? Is the cost too high? Does it take too long? How's the cooldown?
Yes, you beseech to a particular person and while its active are able to beseech echo messages to them. Wiki says its in k gweth range, though I'd assume that's before the gweth range changes. I tried with 31 align and 60 align, both of which gave me just over a minute of echo time. No cool down between being able to beseech again, though the spirit health will be the limiting factor on aligning. I'd say the cost isn't high, since we don't use spirit health for much but the duration doesn't make it worth it. Maybe only useful for those without gweths/crystal rings? Kind of like a really crappy Thoughtcast.


Elanthia to Transfer - What does this do and how high is the cost? At what point is your bonus too low?
Transfer boosts your bonus back up. I think always to full if successful? I believe the issue with bonus being too low is that you can't successfully ALIGN spirit health when you're out of touch with nature. I don't know when that point is exactly. I was able to beseech with 40 align. 40 is pretty close to all the minimums for beseeches and I don't believe there's one that needs more so I've gotten used to using that as a baseline.

// Personal Trail Markers
This one got sort of touched on in the Wishlist thread, so I think I know enough about the current system to understand this.

>// bonus, wish it wouldnt fluctuate as rapidly as it does
>What's the timing like?
I haven't personally tested. Wiki says over 100 minutes to go from full bonus to full penalty. I've always felt it was something like hour and a half or two hours to recover from rock bottom, so seems right.

>// more advocacy and companion development.
>I'm by no means becoming the Ranger Advocate, but you can consider me an interm one.
Fair enough. I'll agree with Charlize that I enjoy playing my ranger best. Beats my next highest character by 90 circles. Rangers are cool, and would love to see our guild specific abilities become cool again to. Plus, awesome skillset placement.


Jalika
Reply
Re: Trash Pandas for Everyone - Current Ranger Woes 12/09/2015 09:13 PM CST
>>//Companions
>>Would it be ideal for companions to not age / die?

I think so. Personally I think worrying about killing your companion accidentally would really put me off. Dying of old age would also not be great. I would set it so that you have the choice of the age of your companion and could, if you wanted to, RP out its aging and death, but this would only happen if you made it happen.

>>Would it be ideal for rotten meat to change its TAP when it's gone bad so you can more easily identify it?

Yes. I should mention, perhaps instead of aging/death, you might have to worry about the health and strength of your companion -- something you could fix with a little care, rather than having to start all over.


- Navesi
Reply
Re: Trash Pandas for Everyone - Current Ranger Woes 12/09/2015 10:55 PM CST
I think the majority of Rangers' woes are due to the fact that most (if not all) Ranger-only systems have not been updated to current development standards since they were created. I honestly think that each system needs to be reevaluated to see how it fits in to the current development environment.

Scouting:
The skill is tedious to train. Trails are pointless in an automapper world/reduced ferry times. They take far, far too long. Skill should reduce the time it takes to run trails down to 5-10 seconds at high skill levels. They need to teach WAY more to make them worthwhile. Other guild skills are on a new experience model that gives you an option to get a huge drop of experience at once, with some kind of timer. I think Scouting needs a similar update. It really doesn't make sense to run a trail back and forth and back and forth for the pittance of experience they offer. We need better options.

I also think the skill must be renamed for the guild to really have a coherent development plan moving forward. Scouting doesn't make sense for any other applications other than trails. This is extremely limiting.

Beseeches:
I've literally only used each one once, to see how it worked, except for Transfer which I might use when I remember that I have it, but because you can't actually use it when you need to use it (when you're out of bonus), it is also rather limited in use. The system has not been touched in years and years, and with all the changes the game has been through, every piece of the system needs to be reconsidered. Most of the utility of beseeches has been completely eliminated by newer systems. The fact that it uses actual spirit health is seriously outdated. Beseeches should be the way that Rangers express their "Ranger-ness."

Bonus:
As others have mentioned, the Ranger bonus is overly restrictive and punitive. There really needs to be some kind of happy medium wherein Rangers can participate in events, spend a bit of time out of the wilderness, but not totally tank their bonus. MON needs to be given steroids. I think like Thieves' Confidence, we should be able to train Charisma to a point where our bonus is somewhat preserved, even when we've "been bad." The system needs to be updated to fall in line with current development standards.

GENT
Reply
Re: Trash Pandas for Everyone - Current Ranger Woes 12/10/2015 12:07 AM CST
This was about 5-7 mins per change...about 45 mins to get that bad, not sure if that's the lowest message but the last one seemed to stick for a while.

[Shard, North City Gates]
The massive gates of the city of Shard rise up to the north. The twin doors of steel-braced ironwood give access to the North Bridgeacross the Lake of Tears. Somber guards watch on the battlements above. You also see a ladder to the top of the wall, a prominent warning sign and the Sentinel Esharis.
Obvious paths: east, south, west.
>hide
You melt into the background, convinced that your attempt to hide went unobserved.
Roundtime: 2 sec.
>
You howl strongly, like that of a wolf calling its kin to assemble for a hunt. The sound echoes commandingly through the area.
>
You inhale and howl strongly, the cacophonous sounds reverberating around you.
>
You howl like a wolf calling the pack!
>
You open your mouth and throw back your head, howling with a tentative but fairly resonant tone that wavers only slightly.
>
You take in a deep breath of air and howl softly.
>
You howl meekly, unsure of yourself.

>
You take in a deep breath to howl, but it comes out as a whimper, like a lost wolf looking for his pack.
>

You howl quietly to yourself, echoing a soft, desolate sound that doesn't sound quite right.
>
You take in a deep breath to howl loudly, but instead cough and choke on the air around you.
>
Reply
Re: Trash Pandas for Everyone - Current Ranger Woes 12/10/2015 06:29 PM CST


You inhale deeply, a resounding howl breaking forth from within you, resonating strongly into the distance as if to announce your mastery of the wilds!
You howl strongly, like that of a wolf calling its kin to assemble for a hunt. The sound echoes commandingly through the area.
You inhale and howl strongly, the cacophonous sounds reverberating around you.
You howl like a wolf calling the pack!
You open your mouth and throw back your head, howling with a tentative but fairly resonant tone that wavers only slightly.
You take in a deep breath air and howl softly.
You howl meekly, unsure of yourself.
You take in a deep breath to howl, but it comes out as a whimper, like a lost wolf looking for his pack.
You howl quietly to yourself, echoing a soft, desolate sound that doesn't sound quite right.
You take in a deep breath to howl, but it comes out as a whimper, like a lost wolf looking for his pack. (This message appeared again, possibly a bug.)
You take in a deep breath to howl loudly, but instead cough and choke on the air around you.
You open your mouth to howl, but you merely sigh like the softest wind through the trees. Sadly, not even a leaf flutters with your "mighty" breath.
You open your mouth and roar with everything you've got! A few soft sounds reminiscent of a baby robin's first song twitter sweetly from within you.
You give forth a mighty... yelp, which sounds more like a domesticated puppy than anything else.
You open your mouth to howl, but it sounds more like a dying chicken than anything else.
You take in a deep breath to howl, and let loose with a mighty... Moo?! The sounds that erupt from within you sound startlingly like the loud bleating of a young heifer giving birth to her first calf.
Reply
Re: Trash Pandas for Everyone - Current Ranger Woes 12/10/2015 06:43 PM CST
While we're at it, can we please have a quiet way to check our bonus? Maybe that doesn't involved barnyard noises?

Maybe something with ALIGN? ALIGN NATURE or something along those lines? The current messaging, while cute, is sometimes confusing.

GENT
Reply
Re: Trash Pandas for Everyone - Current Ranger Woes 12/10/2015 07:31 PM CST
Jalika's hit most everything on the head. I completely agree.

One thing she's missed is that there's not a trail to bypass the gondola, of if there is I'm not aware of it.

Bluefalcon
Reply
Re: Trash Pandas for Everyone - Current Ranger Woes 12/10/2015 07:37 PM CST
Because climbing under the gondola isn't rangerly at all.

Monster Elec

You hear the distant echo of a savage Horde snarling in barbaric disapproval of your deeds.
Reply
Re: Trash Pandas for Everyone - Current Ranger Woes 12/11/2015 12:06 AM CST
Sorry that I'm late with this post, but my new computer has been sent to shop, so I've been without a computer for a week. I'm currently using an old computer.

The thing that frustrates me most as a ranger is that it seems that the amount of time I spend in a city very quickly reduces my conection to nature, but when I get back to nature I very slowly seem to regain that connection. I wish they were on an even keel.




He who has not Christmas in his heart will never find it under a tree.

Roy L. Smith

Read more at http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/topics/topic_christmas.html#227t7mwmuuBtU4Jg.99
Reply
Re: Trash Pandas for Everyone - Current Ranger Woes 12/11/2015 12:46 AM CST

Ranger bonus needs to be revisited for sure.

As others have said, it is not consistent. It appears that the 'world' is actively against Rangers when it comes to their bonus.

Whether it be the LACK of true nature rooms, even though lots of rooms are away from cities or man made objects, yet are neutral or negative.

The amount of spells that are linked to being in nature. Rangers have a huge penalty to magic because you can't cast half of them in non nature areas.
If you want to help in an invasion or Pvp in a city, you are basically screwed if you want to use magic.

The 'world' is quick to take the bonus away quickly, but it takes a long time to regenerate if it is tanked.

Most societies are neutral. Some in Riverhaven are actually negative, such as the forging society.

The ranger guild tent in Haven is actually neutral. Our own guild does not like us!

There is no way to regain bonus except to wait it out. (except for Beseech Elanthia to Transfer, which has an 6-8 cool down and will not fully restore it. You can't use it if you are below 'wavering' with the bonus.)

Memory of Nature appears to barely do anything, even at an 80 mana cast. And you have to be in a 'strongly positive nature room' for it to work. Any other type of room it won't work.


I think I hit most of the big ones when it comes to the bonus.
Reply
Re: Trash Pandas for Everyone - Current Ranger Woes 12/11/2015 05:02 AM CST
>Because climbing under the gondola isn't rangerly at all.

Not the point. I can bring friends on trails. Sometimes those trails already skip certain athletics checks so that bringing the friend along with lower athletics who can't make that climb/swim normally doesn't have to wait for a ferry. Even if the scouting ability had to be equivalent to the current athletics check for the undergondola shortcut, there is still a benefit to having a trail. It'd be great even if we could just have a path to circumvent the long, head bleeder shortcut.
Reply
Re: Trash Pandas for Everyone - Current Ranger Woes 12/11/2015 05:44 AM CST
I feel like I must be a minority, when I say that I don't feel like I've really ever had much of a problem with ranger bonus. I understand and agree with many of the things everyone is pointing out, but they've also never seemed to be a big struggle in my day to day rangering.



~Van
Reply
Re: Trash Pandas for Everyone - Current Ranger Woes 12/11/2015 02:54 PM CST
// Check Bonus without sounding like a barn
I can get behind that. Might be better in the wishlist thread, but it's still noted, so no need to double post.

// Loss vs Gain of Bonus
I get the feeling that looking into this one is going to lead me to many dead ends as looking into MON did yesterday, but noted all the same.

//not a trail to bypass the gondola
It's a giant chasm. There's a way to climb and bypass it, currently.


//The ranger guild tent in Haven is actually neutral
That seems incorrect. Can you please submit a room bug while standing in that room in game?

//There is no way to regain bonus except to wait it out.
How much do you gain from Beseech to Transfer?
Is the 6-8 cooldown minutes or hours?
What kind of CURRENT things SHOULD help regain bonus? Ie, nothing that requires a NEW system.


//Memory of Nature appears to barely do anything, even at an 80 mana cas
Testing with Saracus, I found that it works like this:

1. On cast, you must be in a wilderness room. The more wild, the better.
->>If you "max" the spell, you get an extra bump. The extra bump translates by adjusting an enviro TWO levels closer to wilderness.
->>If you do not max the spell, you get a normal bump. This translates by adjusting an enviro ONE level closer to wilderness.
--->Neither of these bumps seem to work in HIGHLY urban rooms and are more ideal for "neutral" rooms.

What I'm hearing is, ideally, MON should work in any room because you are "carrying a piece of wilderness" with you that permeates the area around you and should last longer. Am I hitting this correctly?

// companions for everyone
Companions are Ranger only and I don't intend on ever being a part creating a system that opens them to non-Rangers.


//more guild clarity or division
Specific to lore or what?

---
NaOH+HI
Reply
Re: Trash Pandas for Everyone - Current Ranger Woes 12/11/2015 07:42 PM CST
<<What kind of CURRENT things SHOULD help regain bonus? Ie, nothing that requires a NEW system>>

I'd think it'd help a lot if we could something outdoors & double the current rate of recovery? IE Do some lumber jacking, foraging, hunting while outside of towns to help our bonus gain faster. My main issue in recovering the ranger bonus is how long it takes. I just got to 100 so I think I got the beseech now, haven't checked so I'll try soon.

But, before that it would take me at least 3-4 hours of solid hunting to go from halfway up the bonus scale <<You take in a deep breath to howl, but it comes out as a whimper, like a lost wolf looking for his pack>> to an acceptable level. <<You howl like a wolf calling the pack!>>

I've always thought that anything that has ruined in it shouldn't be considered a town area. One that comes to mind is the ruined village in Rossman Orcs. You got to go through wild areas to get to the thing. If it was attached to a town, where you had to just go through a door or somesuch, I can see where it should be considered a town, but if you got to travel through the wilds to get there make it neutral. at least IMO.


<<What I'm hearing is, ideally, MON should work in any room because you are "carrying a piece of wilderness" with you that permeates the area around you and should last longer. Am I hitting this correctly?>>

Yes that's correct IMO, but MON is not a low level spell, I'd hope that anything that is implemented would help all rangers, not just the high level ones.

<<//more guild clarity or division
Specific to lore or what?>>

For me it would be both a lore thing. (I'd love to have shaping as a free tech instead of carving and have a recipes that only ranger could do. Hunter's bows!!!)

And also I feel we don't have a really defined role in combat. I mean most of us fight really well, but we don't a guild role like Barbs ( front line combat) Paladins (leading), & clerics. Rangers used to be stealth masters of combat, and had spells/ abilities to support that, but now everyone can hide and ambush with enough skill. Maybe up the damage from bows while sniping & using STW? ( I don't know , just throwing it out for discussion.)

Also our special ability, scouting needs to be looked at IMO, maybe reduce the time to run the trails with skill and make permament trail markers without using the beseech as others have suggested?

Sorry for the long post, but I'm trying to give you some suggestions to think on.

Bluefalcon
Reply
Re: Trash Pandas for Everyone - Current Ranger Woes 12/11/2015 07:43 PM CST
Snipe mechanics in general could use a look-over IMO. This isn't a thing that's unique to Rangers since that's just a survival prime Thing, but I'll throw that out there.



Thayet
Twitter: @thayelf
Tumblr: thayette.tumblr.com
Reply
Re: Trash Pandas for Everyone - Current Ranger Woes 12/11/2015 08:34 PM CST


<<What kind of CURRENT things SHOULD help regain bonus? Ie, nothing that requires a NEW system>>

Compost, picking up old sticks and limbs and such, composting them because compost would return it back to soil and good for the environment. Thus helping the wooded area, plants and flowers. I would make sense for this to help with rebuilding ranger bonus.....
Reply
Re: Trash Pandas for Everyone - Current Ranger Woes 12/11/2015 09:00 PM CST


>How much do you gain from Beseech to Transfer?
>Is the 6-8 cooldown minutes or hours?
I've always found Transfer to boost me way back up, though again, you're not able to use it from rock bottom so not sure if it automatically brings you to max or that's been my experience. Per wiki, 6-8 hours IRL.

>What kind of CURRENT things SHOULD help regain bonus? Ie, nothing that requires a NEW system.
I'd agree that "rangerly" survival should maybe give small boosts. Swimming, climbing, foraging.


>What I'm hearing is, ideally, MON should work in any room because you are "carrying a piece of wilderness" with you that permeates the area around you and should last longer. Am I hitting this correctly?
Would be great if you could cast MON to bring nature to where you are, even if you are in an urban room. A re-up while participating in an event without having to leave. I think a duration boost OR being able to cast anywhere would be good, since either would really have the same result (I'm learning towards re-cast, since you could just keep going, even though eventually your bonus would be overcome by the evils of urban rooms). I dislike that it doesn't give any boost in highly urban areas. What's the point then?


Jalika
Reply
Prev_page Previous 1 3