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I know we have 3.0 absolutely crushing people right now, but can someone please look at the EXP for trails, especially Personal Trail Markers?
Getting scouting past 12/34 is a 30 minute adventure in futility.
Even if it is just a bandaid, how about a 25% to 50% boost on training it?
5 ranks per circle is killing me slowly.
Is it just me? How are the rest of you training it? Just >hunt while hunting? My scouting is basically at level with my primary weapon.
Player of Diggan, Ranger & Halfing of Aesry
TILTINGVAGABOND
ACARLETON
Re: Scouting
12/30/2012 01:07 PM CST
<How are the rest of you training it? Just >hunt while hunting?
Yes
No it's not just you. I stopped trying to run trail to train it. It would take a good hour to lock it running trail for me, and it didn't matter if it was a short trail; (cache), or the mind numbing 3 1/2 minute RL trail from Fens to the Haven ferry south side.
So I tend to hunt to critter, kill it/them, then hunt to something else and repeat. I can lock it in about 35 to 40 minutes plus I'm working 7 to 8 skills instead of just 2.
I agree though it would be nice to be able to use the RTS to train at a more efficient rate.
Now then, please take your gear, your quiver and your bow, and go out to the field and hunt game for me; Genesis 27:3
Yes
No it's not just you. I stopped trying to run trail to train it. It would take a good hour to lock it running trail for me, and it didn't matter if it was a short trail; (cache), or the mind numbing 3 1/2 minute RL trail from Fens to the Haven ferry south side.
So I tend to hunt to critter, kill it/them, then hunt to something else and repeat. I can lock it in about 35 to 40 minutes plus I'm working 7 to 8 skills instead of just 2.
I agree though it would be nice to be able to use the RTS to train at a more efficient rate.
Now then, please take your gear, your quiver and your bow, and go out to the field and hunt game for me; Genesis 27:3
DUNEPLAY
Re: Scouting
12/30/2012 04:21 PM CST
Yeah they know it's broken right now. Sithix has promised to fix the trails with a rewrite after he gets done with companions. Last year we had a vote as to which would be fixed first and companions won.
Personally, I run trails where ever I can and use hunt. Yeah I have 5 ranks per circle to train too and it's a killer. I basically have stopped circling much. I was so hoping Outdoorsmanship would have included trails in addition to forage and animal lore.
Zinaca and her fully-grown raccoon, Shadow (grow! grow!)
Personally, I run trails where ever I can and use hunt. Yeah I have 5 ranks per circle to train too and it's a killer. I basically have stopped circling much. I was so hoping Outdoorsmanship would have included trails in addition to forage and animal lore.
Zinaca and her fully-grown raccoon, Shadow (grow! grow!)
TILTINGVAGABOND
Re: Scouting
12/30/2012 04:38 PM CST
>> Sithix has promised to
If I had a silver kronar for every promise...
But seriously, did Sithix ever come back, I know RL crash down on him like a ton of bricks, but did he ever dig out or are Ranger's once again completely without (as a lot of other guilds are too)?
It's a shame if he's gone, I had high hopes for Sithix.
Player of Diggan, Ranger & Halfing of Aesry
If I had a silver kronar for every promise...
But seriously, did Sithix ever come back, I know RL crash down on him like a ton of bricks, but did he ever dig out or are Ranger's once again completely without (as a lot of other guilds are too)?
It's a shame if he's gone, I had high hopes for Sithix.
Player of Diggan, Ranger & Halfing of Aesry
LUCKYSEVENS
Re: Scouting
12/30/2012 05:00 PM CST
They could literally double exp from trails and be okay.
But it really wouldn't matter, because trails are a dead-end. They can't scale properly to 1750 ranks, they are not unique in function ("Can I get a Moongate from Knife Clan to Kaerna?"), and they certainly don't merit a separate skill (Outdoorsmanship makes more sense at this point).
I'm probably in the minority on this, but I feel like trails have been one huge, long, drawn-out distraction from making a uniquely Ranger guild-only system that is robust enough to merit its own skill. I would much rather see development on a new system that has nothing to do with trails. Or better yet, just roll everything that calls Scouting into Outdoorsmanship, and scrap the skill entirely. Create a new skill that is truly Ranger-only that can power things like Beseeches and companions and move on!
This is perhaps a bit overly negative, but I think 3.0 should make us reconsider what has and what hasn't been working, and what should be kept and what shouldn't. I think Scouting should be up for consideration.
GENT
But it really wouldn't matter, because trails are a dead-end. They can't scale properly to 1750 ranks, they are not unique in function ("Can I get a Moongate from Knife Clan to Kaerna?"), and they certainly don't merit a separate skill (Outdoorsmanship makes more sense at this point).
I'm probably in the minority on this, but I feel like trails have been one huge, long, drawn-out distraction from making a uniquely Ranger guild-only system that is robust enough to merit its own skill. I would much rather see development on a new system that has nothing to do with trails. Or better yet, just roll everything that calls Scouting into Outdoorsmanship, and scrap the skill entirely. Create a new skill that is truly Ranger-only that can power things like Beseeches and companions and move on!
This is perhaps a bit overly negative, but I think 3.0 should make us reconsider what has and what hasn't been working, and what should be kept and what shouldn't. I think Scouting should be up for consideration.
GENT
TILTINGVAGABOND
Re: Scouting
12/30/2012 06:25 PM CST
>>This is perhaps a bit overly negative, but I think 3.0 should make us reconsider what has and what hasn't been working, and what should be kept and what shouldn't. I think Scouting should be up for consideration.
This might be one of the best suggestions on the Ranger boards in over a decade.
Player of Diggan, Ranger & Halfing of Aesry
This might be one of the best suggestions on the Ranger boards in over a decade.
Player of Diggan, Ranger & Halfing of Aesry
DUNEPLAY
Re: Scouting
12/30/2012 06:35 PM CST
<<But seriously, did Sithix ever come back, I know RL crash down on him like a ton of bricks, but did he ever dig out or are Ranger's once again completely without (as a lot of other guilds are too)?
It's a shame if he's gone, I had high hopes for Sithix.>>
Sithix is still around though still dealing with RL issues--though they aren't what they were. He still codes for DR if I remember right and has helped with 3.0 as has everyone. He has hopes of returning to companions early next year. He badly wants to finish companions and work on trails.
I still have high hopes for him--he seems genuinely to care for rangers and we havne't had anyone that has in a long time.
I was thinking of starting a new companion suggestion thread early next year in the hopes he will read them and get new ideas afresh.
So he isn't dead--yet. May he live long and prosper!
Zinaca and her fully-grown raccoon, Shadow
It's a shame if he's gone, I had high hopes for Sithix.>>
Sithix is still around though still dealing with RL issues--though they aren't what they were. He still codes for DR if I remember right and has helped with 3.0 as has everyone. He has hopes of returning to companions early next year. He badly wants to finish companions and work on trails.
I still have high hopes for him--he seems genuinely to care for rangers and we havne't had anyone that has in a long time.
I was thinking of starting a new companion suggestion thread early next year in the hopes he will read them and get new ideas afresh.
So he isn't dead--yet. May he live long and prosper!
Zinaca and her fully-grown raccoon, Shadow
HEASTRENFHERO
Re: Scouting
01/01/2013 09:58 PM CST
>Is it just me? How are the rest of you training it? Just >hunt while hunting?
Have always trained Scouting via Hunt. Running trails is too time consuming for the EXP it grants when Hunt teaches it better and yields more active skills.
Have always trained Scouting via Hunt. Running trails is too time consuming for the EXP it grants when Hunt teaches it better and yields more active skills.
BENNERR
Re: Scouting
01/01/2013 10:13 PM CST
I trained it tracking items, all over, then to trails when trails were around, then hunt and only train it passively using hunt. My biggest issue is why even have it as a skill, what does it do exactly? I am still trying to figure that out.
Arct
Arct
ACKMON
Re: Scouting
01/02/2013 04:52 PM CST
<<<5 ranks per circle is killing me slowly.>>>
Hopefully, you planned better then I did. I need 13 ranks of scouting per circle now.
Asterid
Hopefully, you planned better then I did. I need 13 ranks of scouting per circle now.
Asterid
JASON42
Re: Scouting
01/02/2013 06:24 PM CST
There was a long conversation some time ago discussing trail running as a training method - the consensus was that using the HUNT verb in combat (passively) was adequate enough method for training scouting.
I disagree, but so strong was the consensus that when offered a choice between scouting rewrite & companions, companions were chosen.
That was something like 2+ years ago. Don't hold your breath. Type hunt during combat every 90 seconds - or every 42 seconds - depending on who you ask.
- Kart / Rhoat
I disagree, but so strong was the consensus that when offered a choice between scouting rewrite & companions, companions were chosen.
That was something like 2+ years ago. Don't hold your breath. Type hunt during combat every 90 seconds - or every 42 seconds - depending on who you ask.
- Kart / Rhoat
TILTINGVAGABOND
Re: Scouting
01/02/2013 09:10 PM CST
I've resorted to an even worse hack.
You go find a crowded hunting ground (Oshu@Aesry, Gryphons@OssoSteps, Dillos? Celps?) and just make a script.
HIDE --> HUNT --> HUNT HIGHEST NUMBER --> REPEAT.
At least now in 15 minutes I can lock it if the hunting ground is crowded. It trains a little hiding and stalking, perception, and most importantly scouting.
It's not perfect, but oh well.
Player of Diggan, Ranger & Halfing of Aesry
You go find a crowded hunting ground (Oshu@Aesry, Gryphons@OssoSteps, Dillos? Celps?) and just make a script.
HIDE --> HUNT --> HUNT HIGHEST NUMBER --> REPEAT.
At least now in 15 minutes I can lock it if the hunting ground is crowded. It trains a little hiding and stalking, perception, and most importantly scouting.
It's not perfect, but oh well.
Player of Diggan, Ranger & Halfing of Aesry
KROONERMANREVENGE
Re: Scouting
01/02/2013 09:27 PM CST
Wouldn't it be faster to avoid the hiding part entirely? Or is the RT low enough, and the exp enough, that it's worthwhile? Or is it just 'meh, timing and easier not to change it'?
Adding nothing to the conversation since 1834.
Adding nothing to the conversation since 1834.
GRIM45
Re: Scouting
01/02/2013 09:42 PM CST
>>Wouldn't it be faster to avoid the hiding part entirely? Or is the RT low enough, and the exp enough, that it's worthwhile? Or is it just 'meh, timing and easier not to change it'?
Hiding RT is like 1 sec. I assume the hiding is to avoid freaking people out.
TG, TG, GL, et al.
"Disagreement with the fundamental plan at this point is akin to supporting Richard III vs the Tudors."
-Raesh
Hiding RT is like 1 sec. I assume the hiding is to avoid freaking people out.
TG, TG, GL, et al.
"Disagreement with the fundamental plan at this point is akin to supporting Richard III vs the Tudors."
-Raesh
TILTINGVAGABOND
Re: Scouting
01/02/2013 10:32 PM CST
>Hiding RT is like 1 sec. I assume the hiding is to avoid freaking people out.
This and I only hide, once, the repeat is really just hunt --> hunt #.
People for the most part don't mind because it helps the spawn.
Player of Diggan, Ranger & Halfing of Aesry
This and I only hide, once, the repeat is really just hunt --> hunt #.
People for the most part don't mind because it helps the spawn.
Player of Diggan, Ranger & Halfing of Aesry
HEASTRENFHERO
Re: Scouting
01/03/2013 08:22 AM CST
>>There was a long conversation some time ago discussing trail running as a training method - the consensus was that using the HUNT verb in combat (passively) was adequate enough method for training scouting.
>I disagree, but so strong was the consensus that when offered a choice between scouting rewrite & companions, companions were chosen.
It's more then adequate enough to train scouting as been tested over and over and over and over again (read beating dead horse). Disagree as much as you want, when plenty of people have used Hunt primarily for learning Scouting and it stays on par with other survivals there's not much to disagree about.
>That was something like 2+ years ago. Don't hold your breath. Type hunt during combat every 90 seconds - or every 42 seconds - depending on who you ask.
The experience timer on hunt resets after 75 seconds, not 90 or 42 or 67, again another item that has been discussed quite extensively and has been tested as well.
>I disagree, but so strong was the consensus that when offered a choice between scouting rewrite & companions, companions were chosen.
It's more then adequate enough to train scouting as been tested over and over and over and over again (read beating dead horse). Disagree as much as you want, when plenty of people have used Hunt primarily for learning Scouting and it stays on par with other survivals there's not much to disagree about.
>That was something like 2+ years ago. Don't hold your breath. Type hunt during combat every 90 seconds - or every 42 seconds - depending on who you ask.
The experience timer on hunt resets after 75 seconds, not 90 or 42 or 67, again another item that has been discussed quite extensively and has been tested as well.
BENNERR
Re: Scouting
01/03/2013 08:43 AM CST
Training scouting isn't all that hard to do. I think companions needed the biggest update. Not like it hasn't been on Agenda for 10+ years. I don't have much of a problem training any of the skills I need to circle I just think that scouting overall, as it is a required skill should have some use for Rangers other than being a special skill to learn. We learn it for the sake of learning it. There is very little advantage to using the skill. Would be nice to see something given back.
Arct
Arct
TILTINGVAGABOND
Re: Scouting
01/03/2013 10:35 AM CST
>>It's more then adequate enough to train scouting as been tested over and over and over and over again (read beating dead horse). Disagree as much as you want, when plenty of people have used Hunt primarily for learning Scouting and it stays on par with other survivals there's not much to disagree about.
Just because a few people post a few extra times, and more vehemently doesn't make them correct. Some people just give up after having to read a post like yours.
Training scouting compared to other survivals (except lock/disarm) is broken and other skills have been somewhat fixed when people complain.
+ Climbing was given bandaid with practice,
+ Firstaid has been tweaked to epic levels and they added compendiums,
+ Swimming was looked at a long time ago,
+ Foraging is a joke to train in a number of ways (mining being just plain silly),
+ Perception has had more tweaks and fixes(read COLLECT ROCKS) than all other skills combined,
+ Skinning was tweaked, retweaked, and tweaked again every time the broke/fixed it,
+ Escaping (a skill no one really has a use for except maybe 6 critters?) was given a whole new verb to train it,
+ Stalking was silly to train for about 10 years until the fixed the hax and now it's just easy instead of broken
+ Stealing has been overhauled at least twice that I know of.
+ Evasion is incredibly easy anywhere, but in some hunting grounds it's just a given
+ Hiding has been given several tools to train it
+ Disarm/Lockpick were completely rewritten to make training it bearable (even though the risk/reward still sucks).
And then...
+ Scouting - A guild only skill - with no perk whatsoever (travel scripts and genie travel beat scripts almost every time) - was given HUNT (which oddly trains perception in combat for everyone) adds a very small amount of learning to your scouting pool.
Maybe I'll try it later, but if you train each survival skill (optimally) from 0/34 to 17/34 (arbitrary) and time it, I'd be willing to bet scouting loses.
Anyways, I'm not saying it's impossible, it is doable, but it's not "right" when compared to other skills (especially given the guild only status) and this is the complaints folder, I didn't come here to give Kudos.
Player of Diggan, Ranger & Halfing of Aesry
Just because a few people post a few extra times, and more vehemently doesn't make them correct. Some people just give up after having to read a post like yours.
Training scouting compared to other survivals (except lock/disarm) is broken and other skills have been somewhat fixed when people complain.
+ Climbing was given bandaid with practice,
+ Firstaid has been tweaked to epic levels and they added compendiums,
+ Swimming was looked at a long time ago,
+ Foraging is a joke to train in a number of ways (mining being just plain silly),
+ Perception has had more tweaks and fixes(read COLLECT ROCKS) than all other skills combined,
+ Skinning was tweaked, retweaked, and tweaked again every time the broke/fixed it,
+ Escaping (a skill no one really has a use for except maybe 6 critters?) was given a whole new verb to train it,
+ Stalking was silly to train for about 10 years until the fixed the hax and now it's just easy instead of broken
+ Stealing has been overhauled at least twice that I know of.
+ Evasion is incredibly easy anywhere, but in some hunting grounds it's just a given
+ Hiding has been given several tools to train it
+ Disarm/Lockpick were completely rewritten to make training it bearable (even though the risk/reward still sucks).
And then...
+ Scouting - A guild only skill - with no perk whatsoever (travel scripts and genie travel beat scripts almost every time) - was given HUNT (which oddly trains perception in combat for everyone) adds a very small amount of learning to your scouting pool.
Maybe I'll try it later, but if you train each survival skill (optimally) from 0/34 to 17/34 (arbitrary) and time it, I'd be willing to bet scouting loses.
Anyways, I'm not saying it's impossible, it is doable, but it's not "right" when compared to other skills (especially given the guild only status) and this is the complaints folder, I didn't come here to give Kudos.
Player of Diggan, Ranger & Halfing of Aesry
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Scouting
01/03/2013 10:44 AM CST
>>Disarm/Lockpick were completely rewritten to make training it bearable (even though the risk/reward still sucks).
I didn't test vs boxes that grossly outclass me, but the boxes I have purposely tripped in 3.0 while healme was available in Plat weren't a promised death sentence like they were in 2.0.
That said, I wasn't opening intercessor boxes or anything. But my understanding is that orc raider boxes could be a nice chunk of trouble in 2.0 if they were tripped.
The teeth lands a solid (5/23) hit that pokes the teeth into Turul's rear end (more embarrassing than painful!).
I didn't test vs boxes that grossly outclass me, but the boxes I have purposely tripped in 3.0 while healme was available in Plat weren't a promised death sentence like they were in 2.0.
That said, I wasn't opening intercessor boxes or anything. But my understanding is that orc raider boxes could be a nice chunk of trouble in 2.0 if they were tripped.
The teeth lands a solid (5/23) hit that pokes the teeth into Turul's rear end (more embarrassing than painful!).
MAGIC1300
Re: Scouting
01/03/2013 12:15 PM CST
I believe boxes are broken in Plat/on test... I blew a bunch of head-splitter boxes on purpose and they barely scratched me. As far as I know, the box damage hasn't been rewritten to scale with the new health system, so this might (and probably will) change.
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Scouting
01/03/2013 12:32 PM CST
It matters what kind of trap it is. Poison traps barely do anything now because of new vit. Bolt traps don't really screw me up, either. Explosion traps did notable damage to me, at least a few months ago, but it wasn't NOW YOU DIE. Hand chopping traps still chopped hands off, which is probably because they're tied to doing just that instead of an actual attack/damage/whatever mechanic.
I do agree that they might need some more teeth added to them in certain situations, but I was just pointing out that boxes weren't instant death anymore.
The teeth lands a solid (5/23) hit that pokes the teeth into Turul's rear end (more embarrassing than painful!).
I do agree that they might need some more teeth added to them in certain situations, but I was just pointing out that boxes weren't instant death anymore.
The teeth lands a solid (5/23) hit that pokes the teeth into Turul's rear end (more embarrassing than painful!).
DUNEPLAY
Re: Scouting
01/03/2013 03:54 PM CST
Just for your FYI there is a lovely brainstorming session on scouting going on in the general discussions folder. Feel free to post your suggestions for improvement and get folks who normally don't post to post too. We kinda figure that if some GM sees something they like and get approval, we could hit "ranger gold" as someone posted.
Zinaca and her fully-grown raccoon,Shadow who scouts/tracks better than I do : (
Zinaca and her fully-grown raccoon,Shadow who scouts/tracks better than I do : (
HEASTRENFHERO
Re: Scouting
01/03/2013 04:47 PM CST
>Just because a few people post a few extra times, and more vehemently doesn't make them correct. Some people just give up after having to read a post like yours.
You're right, it doesn't make them correct. Experience and Numbers make it correct. Trail running is horrendous for Scouting by a lot. Hunt is an infinitely better method to training Scouting. The dead horse is that Hunt isn't an adequate means to learn Scouting, and it most certainly is. It's not as quick as other skills for sure, I'm not debating that. However; it's definitely trainable and requires minimal effort to keep moving with Hunt. Do you learn it as fast as foraging/evasion? Absolutely not, would I like ways of learning it easier? Sure I'll take any increase to learning I can get, but you can also learn it just fine the way it is now.
>Training scouting compared to other survivals (except lock/disarm) is broken and other skills have been somewhat fixed when people complain.
My post isn't about Scouting being easier/harder to learn then any other survival. It's about how some claim they can't learn it, when they most certainly can. If GM's want to increase the learning rate I'm not going to complain, but I have never once had an inability to train this skill nor do my other survivals completely out rank it. From 0 ranks on Hunting will teach you fine (unless you play Ghostland Plat/TF.) which I can see being a problem.
You're right, it doesn't make them correct. Experience and Numbers make it correct. Trail running is horrendous for Scouting by a lot. Hunt is an infinitely better method to training Scouting. The dead horse is that Hunt isn't an adequate means to learn Scouting, and it most certainly is. It's not as quick as other skills for sure, I'm not debating that. However; it's definitely trainable and requires minimal effort to keep moving with Hunt. Do you learn it as fast as foraging/evasion? Absolutely not, would I like ways of learning it easier? Sure I'll take any increase to learning I can get, but you can also learn it just fine the way it is now.
>Training scouting compared to other survivals (except lock/disarm) is broken and other skills have been somewhat fixed when people complain.
My post isn't about Scouting being easier/harder to learn then any other survival. It's about how some claim they can't learn it, when they most certainly can. If GM's want to increase the learning rate I'm not going to complain, but I have never once had an inability to train this skill nor do my other survivals completely out rank it. From 0 ranks on Hunting will teach you fine (unless you play Ghostland Plat/TF.) which I can see being a problem.
TILTINGVAGABOND
Re: Scouting
01/03/2013 05:33 PM CST
>>but I have never once had an inability to train this skill nor do my other survivals completely out rank it.
You're taking the outliers and making them the complaint, when that isn't the case.
I have to learn 5 ranks of scouting per circle. I'm hunting celps on Ratha or stalkers on Aesry. I train Bow, Melee, and Brawling in combat. I use the hunt verb every 90 (so I could pick up 15 second there according to your information). From circle 98 - 108th it has been my last survival to rank up to circle.
Is it untrainable - NO, and no one is saying that.
Is it only trainable through a silly bandaid - Yes, and you and I agree on that.
Is it the slowest training survival - Yes, and I don't see you arguing that either.
Is it one of the more worthless survivals in the game - Yes, and I don't see anyone arguing that either.
My original complaint was:
Getting scouting past 12/34 is a 30 minute adventure in futility.
I stand by that.
I will also add to my complaint that:
HARD TO TRAIN + WORTHLESS GUILD ONLY SKILL = LAME.
If you don't like my complaint, that's okay.
But seeing as who you and I are making the same point in that we WANT an increase in learning the skill, why are being such a troll?
Player of Diggan, Ranger & Halfing of Aesry
You're taking the outliers and making them the complaint, when that isn't the case.
I have to learn 5 ranks of scouting per circle. I'm hunting celps on Ratha or stalkers on Aesry. I train Bow, Melee, and Brawling in combat. I use the hunt verb every 90 (so I could pick up 15 second there according to your information). From circle 98 - 108th it has been my last survival to rank up to circle.
Is it untrainable - NO, and no one is saying that.
Is it only trainable through a silly bandaid - Yes, and you and I agree on that.
Is it the slowest training survival - Yes, and I don't see you arguing that either.
Is it one of the more worthless survivals in the game - Yes, and I don't see anyone arguing that either.
My original complaint was:
Getting scouting past 12/34 is a 30 minute adventure in futility.
I stand by that.
I will also add to my complaint that:
HARD TO TRAIN + WORTHLESS GUILD ONLY SKILL = LAME.
If you don't like my complaint, that's okay.
But seeing as who you and I are making the same point in that we WANT an increase in learning the skill, why are being such a troll?
Player of Diggan, Ranger & Halfing of Aesry
C0UGAR
Re: Scouting
01/04/2013 12:26 AM CST
Scouting is one of the worst skills in the game to train. It is broken and needs to be fixed in a number of ways. With that said, I still voted for companions to be fixed first. This is coming from a person that has over 1000 scouting. Scouting was bad, and the new EXP made it even worse. Hunt is a joke to train scouting. I'm hoping it is made much more useful, and a lot easier to train, but I can wait until companions are done. Of course at this point, I'd be happy with any guild development, as I dont think we are actively being worked on at all, with the exception of a few new spells coming in 3.0
Falker
Falker
HEASTRENFHERO
Re: Scouting
01/04/2013 09:15 AM CST
>You're taking the outliers and making them the complaint, when that isn't the case.
>I have to learn 5 ranks of scouting per circle. I'm hunting celps on Ratha or stalkers on Aesry. I train Bow, Melee, and Brawling in combat. I use the hunt verb every 90 (so I could pick up 15 second there according to your information). From circle 98 - 108th it has been my last survival to rank up to circle.
If you let a skill fall the wayside and not utilize the tools available then sure, it's going to be your last survival and what you need to circle. That didn't have to be the case though. If you had worked hunt into your hunting routine on a regular basis that wouldn't be the case. That hardly makes a skill hard to train, it just means you neglected to use it and now you want to circle and are having troubles because you have to train it again.
>Is it untrainable - NO, and no one is saying that.
No it's not untrainable, nor is it difficult to train either which is what you're saying.
>Is it only trainable through a silly bandaid - Yes, and you and I agree on that.
There are two ways to train it which you've mentioned. Trail Running and Hunt, neither are bandaids. Trail Running is a less efficient way than using Hunt.
>Is it the slowest training survival - Yes, and I don't see you arguing that either.
I can't comment on that because I don't train every survival. I don't work Stealing, Disarm, or Lockpicking. However; out of my active survivals it's not the slowest training for me (which means I can keep it over 3/34 with minimal effort, which is hardly slow training IMO.)
>Is it one of the more worthless survivals in the game - Yes, and I don't see anyone arguing that either.
Irrelevant in regards to training. I agree it's worthless, but that's a different argument which I hope gets addressed.
>My original complaint was:
>Getting scouting past 12/34 is a 30 minute adventure in futility.
>I stand by that.
>I will also add to my complaint that:
>HARD TO TRAIN + WORTHLESS GUILD ONLY SKILL = LAME.
This is where the disagreement stems. Scouting isn't HARD TO TRAIN. Sure it's useless, but difficult? Negative. Anyways, here we go again...I got it to 10/34 in 11 minutes from clear using Hunt with THREE TIMES as much Scouting as you. VERY VERY HARD.
If you don't like my complaint, that's okay.
>But seeing as who you and I are making the same point in that we WANT an increase in learning the skill, why are being such a troll?
You WANT an increase in learning the skill. I don't, I'd welcome it but I don't feel it's necessary. Remember, you're learning the same at 3/34 as you are at 12/34. Whether it takes an hour to get to 34/34 or 15 minutes you're still absorbing the same amount of experience and you're gaining a steady stream.
>I have to learn 5 ranks of scouting per circle. I'm hunting celps on Ratha or stalkers on Aesry. I train Bow, Melee, and Brawling in combat. I use the hunt verb every 90 (so I could pick up 15 second there according to your information). From circle 98 - 108th it has been my last survival to rank up to circle.
If you let a skill fall the wayside and not utilize the tools available then sure, it's going to be your last survival and what you need to circle. That didn't have to be the case though. If you had worked hunt into your hunting routine on a regular basis that wouldn't be the case. That hardly makes a skill hard to train, it just means you neglected to use it and now you want to circle and are having troubles because you have to train it again.
>Is it untrainable - NO, and no one is saying that.
No it's not untrainable, nor is it difficult to train either which is what you're saying.
>Is it only trainable through a silly bandaid - Yes, and you and I agree on that.
There are two ways to train it which you've mentioned. Trail Running and Hunt, neither are bandaids. Trail Running is a less efficient way than using Hunt.
>Is it the slowest training survival - Yes, and I don't see you arguing that either.
I can't comment on that because I don't train every survival. I don't work Stealing, Disarm, or Lockpicking. However; out of my active survivals it's not the slowest training for me (which means I can keep it over 3/34 with minimal effort, which is hardly slow training IMO.)
>Is it one of the more worthless survivals in the game - Yes, and I don't see anyone arguing that either.
Irrelevant in regards to training. I agree it's worthless, but that's a different argument which I hope gets addressed.
>My original complaint was:
>Getting scouting past 12/34 is a 30 minute adventure in futility.
>I stand by that.
>I will also add to my complaint that:
>HARD TO TRAIN + WORTHLESS GUILD ONLY SKILL = LAME.
This is where the disagreement stems. Scouting isn't HARD TO TRAIN. Sure it's useless, but difficult? Negative. Anyways, here we go again...I got it to 10/34 in 11 minutes from clear using Hunt with THREE TIMES as much Scouting as you. VERY VERY HARD.
If you don't like my complaint, that's okay.
>But seeing as who you and I are making the same point in that we WANT an increase in learning the skill, why are being such a troll?
You WANT an increase in learning the skill. I don't, I'd welcome it but I don't feel it's necessary. Remember, you're learning the same at 3/34 as you are at 12/34. Whether it takes an hour to get to 34/34 or 15 minutes you're still absorbing the same amount of experience and you're gaining a steady stream.
HEASTRENFHERO
Re: Scouting
01/04/2013 09:18 AM CST
>Scouting is one of the worst skills in the game to train. It is broken and needs to be fixed in a number of ways. With that said, I still voted for companions to be fixed first. This is coming from a person that has over 1000 scouting. Scouting was bad, and the new EXP made it even worse. Hunt is a joke to train scouting. I'm hoping it is made much more useful, and a lot easier to train, but I can wait until companions are done. Of course at this point, I'd be happy with any guild development, as I dont think we are actively being worked on at all, with the exception of a few new spells coming in 3.0
I'll have to re-evaluate once I'm over 1,000 but i'm learning it just fine with Joke training. I don't doubt your ability to train Falk so maybe it's a case of reaching skill caps via pool size and high end creatures starting to soft cap at the point you're at, but below that I don't see any issue whatsoever using Hunt.
I'll have to re-evaluate once I'm over 1,000 but i'm learning it just fine with Joke training. I don't doubt your ability to train Falk so maybe it's a case of reaching skill caps via pool size and high end creatures starting to soft cap at the point you're at, but below that I don't see any issue whatsoever using Hunt.
TILTINGVAGABOND
Re: Scouting
01/04/2013 10:40 AM CST
>>with THREE TIMES as much Scouting as you.
>>I'll have to re-evaluate once I'm over 1,000
If you aren't over 1000, then you don't have 3x as much scouting as I have. So quit trying to flex your little text.
>>If you let a skill fall the wayside and not utilize the tools available then sure, it's going to be your last survival and what you need to circle.
If I let it fall by the wayside i wouldn't need 5 ranks per circle. Do you even think before you type? If it was left behind I would only need the 4 ranks per circle as is a hard requirement for scouting. It's obviously in my top 5 survivals.
Anyways, I've said my piece, some agree, you don't, that's life.
Player of Diggan, Ranger & Halfing of Aesry
>>I'll have to re-evaluate once I'm over 1,000
If you aren't over 1000, then you don't have 3x as much scouting as I have. So quit trying to flex your little text.
>>If you let a skill fall the wayside and not utilize the tools available then sure, it's going to be your last survival and what you need to circle.
If I let it fall by the wayside i wouldn't need 5 ranks per circle. Do you even think before you type? If it was left behind I would only need the 4 ranks per circle as is a hard requirement for scouting. It's obviously in my top 5 survivals.
Anyways, I've said my piece, some agree, you don't, that's life.
Player of Diggan, Ranger & Halfing of Aesry
HEASTRENFHERO
Re: Scouting
01/04/2013 05:00 PM CST
>If you aren't over 1000, then you don't have 3x as much scouting as I have. So quit trying to flex your little text.
>If I let it fall by the wayside i wouldn't need 5 ranks per circle. Do you even think before you type? If it was left behind I would only need the 4 ranks per circle as is a hard requirement for scouting. It's obviously in my top 5 survivals.
Oh sorry excuse me, you're right we're talking about your nth survivals not Scouting hard req. SO I HAVE DOUBLE YOUR SCOUTING RANKS, but hey that really doesn't matter. Your character just must be broken since your ~400 ranks of Scouting takes you 30 minutes to get to 15/34 while it takes me 11 to get to 10/34 with ~DOUBLE, NOT TRIPLE (you sure showed me) your Scouting ranks. Point still stands, REALLY REALLY HARD SCOUTING IS.
>Anyways, I've said my piece, some agree, you don't, that's life.
Kind of hard to make a compelling argument when your "Scouting is hard to train" comments are refuted with "See it's really not, see Hunt." responses.
Anywhoo, this is getting into conflicts rather then complaints so keep on complaining about that hard skill, I've said my peace.
-Text Flex out
>If I let it fall by the wayside i wouldn't need 5 ranks per circle. Do you even think before you type? If it was left behind I would only need the 4 ranks per circle as is a hard requirement for scouting. It's obviously in my top 5 survivals.
Oh sorry excuse me, you're right we're talking about your nth survivals not Scouting hard req. SO I HAVE DOUBLE YOUR SCOUTING RANKS, but hey that really doesn't matter. Your character just must be broken since your ~400 ranks of Scouting takes you 30 minutes to get to 15/34 while it takes me 11 to get to 10/34 with ~DOUBLE, NOT TRIPLE (you sure showed me) your Scouting ranks. Point still stands, REALLY REALLY HARD SCOUTING IS.
>Anyways, I've said my piece, some agree, you don't, that's life.
Kind of hard to make a compelling argument when your "Scouting is hard to train" comments are refuted with "See it's really not, see Hunt." responses.
Anywhoo, this is getting into conflicts rather then complaints so keep on complaining about that hard skill, I've said my peace.
-Text Flex out
DUNEPLAY
Re: Scouting
01/04/2013 06:43 PM CST
OOoo more please! Falker, you doin great, sounds like the old Falker that used to post in conflicts.
Everyone put on your gloves and remember play nice. ::ducks an arrow or 3 and runs like hell::
I don't have near the ranks Falker has and I still find hunt a bit hard to train. See the problem isn't using HUNT, it is in finding stuff around me. I wish we could get some experience in using HUNT even if there are no critters around.
I recall, perhaps imperfectly, that there was some talk about inadequate critter spawn in some areas, especially the high end critters and that was causing some to not learn scouting by HUNTing. Has that been addressed?
Zinaca and her fully-grown raccoon, Shadow
Everyone put on your gloves and remember play nice. ::ducks an arrow or 3 and runs like hell::
I don't have near the ranks Falker has and I still find hunt a bit hard to train. See the problem isn't using HUNT, it is in finding stuff around me. I wish we could get some experience in using HUNT even if there are no critters around.
I recall, perhaps imperfectly, that there was some talk about inadequate critter spawn in some areas, especially the high end critters and that was causing some to not learn scouting by HUNTing. Has that been addressed?
Zinaca and her fully-grown raccoon, Shadow
CORANOTH
Re: Scouting
01/05/2013 01:40 AM CST
I don't know about the rest of you and I'm not trying to continue a big fight... I mean discussion... but I figured I'd throw in my two cents. Why is everyone worried about how long it takes to lock scouting with hunt? Your going to be in combat for a heck of a lot longer than that number will wind up being. So if it'll lock by the time you've locked all your defenses, weapons, and whatever else you plan to lock then what's it matter? It's far better than running trails for hours and the entire time being suck JUST doing that.
Scarith
Scarith
KROONERMANREVENGE
Re: Scouting
01/05/2013 06:40 AM CST
> Your going to be in combat for a heck of a lot longer than that number will wind up being.
I'd assume because people need to train it to circle, and lack any non-combat way of training it. It's nice to have in-combat methods to train a bunch of skills, but sometimes you also want to just lock X and go do Y, not .scripthunt for hours.
Adding nothing to the conversation since 1834.
I'd assume because people need to train it to circle, and lack any non-combat way of training it. It's nice to have in-combat methods to train a bunch of skills, but sometimes you also want to just lock X and go do Y, not .scripthunt for hours.
Adding nothing to the conversation since 1834.
HEATHCHRISTINE
Re: Scouting
01/05/2013 09:57 AM CST
>So if it'll lock by the time you've locked all your defenses, weapons, and whatever else you plan to lock then what's it matter?
In my experience, I get to about 14-16/34 in scouting and around 6-8/34 in perception by the time I've locked longbow in sky giants. This is probably about 15 minutes. My hiding/stalking is somewhere in the high 20s low 30s. Its not locking, but as Falk pointed out it is learning. Something that moves it while I'm doing an exact hunting routine I'd be doing anyway, with the bonus of bringing me to a creature when I've killed all in my room without running around.
As for the usefulness of scouting, I think we're all on the same page.
Jalika
TILTINGVAGABOND
Re: Scouting
01/05/2013 10:13 AM CST
With the 75 seconds solution it's gotten slightly better.
Also, the main problem for me (and this is MY PROBLEM, not a system one) is that I make a choice to live on Aesry (and visit Ratha). If I'm in stalkers, I'm the only one, and if I am in Celps (most hours) there might be one other person (except during prime hours). There isn't enough spawn to move it.
I was in celps the other day when 3 others were in there, and it was cranking. I think it's a matter of spawn.
In the end, I just think that if the scouting skill is used primarily for running trails - it seems that it should be taught the best by running them, no?
A hax verb that keeps it moving while hunting is fantastic, but I think if I want to get to 34/34 in 15-20 minutes, I should be able to do it, by running trails at level (if there is such thing). And then I can go do other things.
Thanks for the input folks.
Player of Diggan, Ranger & Halfing of Aesry
Also, the main problem for me (and this is MY PROBLEM, not a system one) is that I make a choice to live on Aesry (and visit Ratha). If I'm in stalkers, I'm the only one, and if I am in Celps (most hours) there might be one other person (except during prime hours). There isn't enough spawn to move it.
I was in celps the other day when 3 others were in there, and it was cranking. I think it's a matter of spawn.
In the end, I just think that if the scouting skill is used primarily for running trails - it seems that it should be taught the best by running them, no?
A hax verb that keeps it moving while hunting is fantastic, but I think if I want to get to 34/34 in 15-20 minutes, I should be able to do it, by running trails at level (if there is such thing). And then I can go do other things.
Thanks for the input folks.
Player of Diggan, Ranger & Halfing of Aesry
GERSTEINJ2
Re: Scouting
01/05/2013 11:27 AM CST
I finally figured out how to train it in 3.0, in the painful gap between 40 where you can hunt kittens in "villages" <like arthe dale> and 55 where you can do the easiest trail.
it would probably work for higher levels as well, but it necessitates having a second account or hunting near a dancing empath that isn't with a gspirit, or who isn't killing their critters for whatever reason <mine needs to work on her defenses. Being she's 44th and in the same area as my now 16th ranger.... >
If you're right next door to a dancing empath, you can just put "hunt" into your routine, and practice TM on your own critters along with tactics. My TM is low enough that I don't kill the critters, but I still learn from casting at them. So there were only 6 total critters in the area because of the critter cap <4 on the empath, 2 on me>, but I still was able to eke out some learning that way.
<<The real thing DR needs is to get out there to the kids who actually read books.>>
it would probably work for higher levels as well, but it necessitates having a second account or hunting near a dancing empath that isn't with a gspirit, or who isn't killing their critters for whatever reason <mine needs to work on her defenses. Being she's 44th and in the same area as my now 16th ranger.... >
If you're right next door to a dancing empath, you can just put "hunt" into your routine, and practice TM on your own critters along with tactics. My TM is low enough that I don't kill the critters, but I still learn from casting at them. So there were only 6 total critters in the area because of the critter cap <4 on the empath, 2 on me>, but I still was able to eke out some learning that way.
<<The real thing DR needs is to get out there to the kids who actually read books.>>
DUNEPLAY
Re: Scouting
01/05/2013 01:25 PM CST
<<Also, the main problem for me (and this is MY PROBLEM, not a system one) is that I make a choice to live on Aesry (and visit Ratha). If I'm in stalkers, I'm the only one, and if I am in Celps (most hours) there might be one other person (except during prime hours). There isn't enough spawn to move it.
I was in celps the other day when 3 others were in there, and it was cranking. I think it's a matter of spawn.>> Diggan
Exactly this! Usually where I hunt and when, only a few people show up if any. With low people count, comes less spawn or more often, no spawn to HUNT. Yesterday I was in gryphons where there were more people and I got scouting up to 6 and 7! in about half an hour.
I really think scouting should be given the same experience as HUNT, or maybe a little more. I would think scouting and hunting would use the same set of skills (ability to see prey, trails, stalking, or efficiently moving to or through them and being aware of everything around you).
Zinaca and her fully-grown raccoon, Shadow
I was in celps the other day when 3 others were in there, and it was cranking. I think it's a matter of spawn.>> Diggan
Exactly this! Usually where I hunt and when, only a few people show up if any. With low people count, comes less spawn or more often, no spawn to HUNT. Yesterday I was in gryphons where there were more people and I got scouting up to 6 and 7! in about half an hour.
I really think scouting should be given the same experience as HUNT, or maybe a little more. I would think scouting and hunting would use the same set of skills (ability to see prey, trails, stalking, or efficiently moving to or through them and being aware of everything around you).
Zinaca and her fully-grown raccoon, Shadow
SAVEARO
Re: Scouting
01/05/2013 04:10 PM CST
SKILL: Rank/Percent towards next rank/Amount learning/Mindstate Fraction
Shield Usage: 227 90% mind lock (34/34) Leather Armor: 348 71% mind lock (34/34)
Parry Ability: 320 75% mind lock (34/34) Multi Opponent: 290 31% mind lock (34/34)
Light Edged: 340 37% very rapt (31/34) Heavy Edged: 188 55% enthralled (32/34)
Twohanded Edged: 318 68% very rapt (31/34) Brawling: 142 93% concentrating (9/34)
Evasion: 390 78% mind lock (34/34) Perception: 408 60% thoughtful (4/34)
Scouting: 356 85% thinking (5/34) Hiding: 287 67% absorbing (15/34)
Stalking: 310 73% deliberative (11/34) Skinning: 341 75% enthralled (32/34)
Mechanical Lore: 215 87% understanding (14/34) Appraisal: 261 98% thoughtful (4/34)
That's with over half an hour of hunting in gryphons down by Shard. I could step out of combat for 5-10 minutes to lock mech and foraging, step back into combat and have most of my combats locked within 10-15 minutes and scouting wouldn't be more than 10/34 or so. Sometimes I get lucky if I go to Genies and I can lock it if enough people are there, but takes forever most of the time. I use a stopwatch to keep me at the 75 second timer and it is terribly annoying to have to keep track of a timer. I don't have to track any of my other skills like that. Scouting is literally the only skill that holds me back from leveling. I've slowed down on my combat and overall survival training just so all my other skills don't fly ahead of my scouting. All I ask as a paying customer is for an increase in learning from the hunt command or decrease the timer to 30 seconds. Not sure what the big deal is about one stinking skill. It isn't going to break the game and it isn't some all powerful skill.
I really don't want to hear that I'm doing it "wrong". I don't have to worry about the training of my other skills "correctly". I just go jump in and play and bam, I'm learning them all but scouting at a decent pace.
Pathyn
Shield Usage: 227 90% mind lock (34/34) Leather Armor: 348 71% mind lock (34/34)
Parry Ability: 320 75% mind lock (34/34) Multi Opponent: 290 31% mind lock (34/34)
Light Edged: 340 37% very rapt (31/34) Heavy Edged: 188 55% enthralled (32/34)
Twohanded Edged: 318 68% very rapt (31/34) Brawling: 142 93% concentrating (9/34)
Evasion: 390 78% mind lock (34/34) Perception: 408 60% thoughtful (4/34)
Scouting: 356 85% thinking (5/34) Hiding: 287 67% absorbing (15/34)
Stalking: 310 73% deliberative (11/34) Skinning: 341 75% enthralled (32/34)
Mechanical Lore: 215 87% understanding (14/34) Appraisal: 261 98% thoughtful (4/34)
That's with over half an hour of hunting in gryphons down by Shard. I could step out of combat for 5-10 minutes to lock mech and foraging, step back into combat and have most of my combats locked within 10-15 minutes and scouting wouldn't be more than 10/34 or so. Sometimes I get lucky if I go to Genies and I can lock it if enough people are there, but takes forever most of the time. I use a stopwatch to keep me at the 75 second timer and it is terribly annoying to have to keep track of a timer. I don't have to track any of my other skills like that. Scouting is literally the only skill that holds me back from leveling. I've slowed down on my combat and overall survival training just so all my other skills don't fly ahead of my scouting. All I ask as a paying customer is for an increase in learning from the hunt command or decrease the timer to 30 seconds. Not sure what the big deal is about one stinking skill. It isn't going to break the game and it isn't some all powerful skill.
I really don't want to hear that I'm doing it "wrong". I don't have to worry about the training of my other skills "correctly". I just go jump in and play and bam, I'm learning them all but scouting at a decent pace.
Pathyn
DUNEPLAY
Re: Scouting
01/05/2013 09:29 PM CST
Amen Pathyn! And your experience is the norm for us I think. I sincerely hope the GMs are watchting.
Zinaca and her fully-grown raccoon, Shadow
Zinaca and her fully-grown raccoon, Shadow
HEASTRENFHERO
Re: Scouting
01/06/2013 09:44 AM CST
>That's with over half an hour of hunting in gryphons down by Shard. I could step out of combat for 5-10 minutes to lock mech and foraging, step back into combat and have most of my combats locked within 10-15 minutes and scouting wouldn't be more than 10/34 or so. Sometimes I get lucky if I go to Genies and I can lock it if enough people are there, but takes forever most of the time. I use a stopwatch to keep me at the 75 second timer and it is terribly annoying to have to keep track of a timer. I don't have to track any of my other skills like that. Scouting is literally the only skill that holds me back from leveling. I've slowed down on my combat and overall survival training just so all my other skills don't fly ahead of my scouting. All I ask as a paying customer is for an increase in learning from the hunt command or decrease the timer to 30 seconds. Not sure what the big deal is about one stinking skill. It isn't going to break the game and it isn't some all powerful skill.
>I really don't want to hear that I'm doing it "wrong". I don't have to worry about the training of my other skills "correctly". I just go jump in and play and bam, I'm learning them all but scouting at a decent pace.
Remember, you're pulsing just as much at 3/34 than you are at 15/34. If you're getting to 3/34 which you should be in a few minutes, you're learning at your maximum rate, and by using Hunt every 75 seconds you should be gaining a net increase to Scouting moving you up (which seems to be the case since you're saying you are reaching 10/34.
Using a stopwatch seems like such an archaic way of doing it, what front end are you using? EXP timers exist in the game, it's not just HUNT but you can utilize tools within the front ends to have that stopwatch capability for you. I don't use Stormfront but with Wizard you can have a pause 75 command, or if you're using Genie3 there are timers available you can use.
>I really don't want to hear that I'm doing it "wrong". I don't have to worry about the training of my other skills "correctly". I just go jump in and play and bam, I'm learning them all but scouting at a decent pace.
Remember, you're pulsing just as much at 3/34 than you are at 15/34. If you're getting to 3/34 which you should be in a few minutes, you're learning at your maximum rate, and by using Hunt every 75 seconds you should be gaining a net increase to Scouting moving you up (which seems to be the case since you're saying you are reaching 10/34.
Using a stopwatch seems like such an archaic way of doing it, what front end are you using? EXP timers exist in the game, it's not just HUNT but you can utilize tools within the front ends to have that stopwatch capability for you. I don't use Stormfront but with Wizard you can have a pause 75 command, or if you're using Genie3 there are timers available you can use.
OLSONM6
Re: Scouting
01/06/2013 09:54 AM CST
Yeah, here's a hunt script I've used:
start:
put hunt
pause 76
goto start
I made it 76 seconds just to be safe.
start:
put hunt
pause 76
goto start
I made it 76 seconds just to be safe.
