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<<Again, dont take plotting into consideration as from what I've read the togs seemed mostly happy with their lots while in the employ of the s'kra>>
<<It can be linked to that old saying of today "dont rock the boat', mind your own business & you may actually die a very old person instead of dying before you were 30 yrs old.>>
Agreed, as a general rule.
The thought I was having (and didn't articulate particularly well) is this:
1) In every society there is opposition. While they may be a vast majority, there were certainly at least a small group that were not thrilled with the idea of being enslaved. Most didn't mind and excepted that this was how it was. In a thousand or so year (whatever the math was) there had to be a few young angry Togs that didn't really care about consequences. All the literature I've read has also suggested that (generally speaking) things weren't that bad.
2) Last night I was just trying to figure out what the reaction from the events that created Togball might have been. Things certainly would have changed in at least that camp. I can picture certain S'Kra Mur being very uncomfortable with the idea of having to deal with a group of angry Togs. How did they handle it?
- Ogoh
>appraise horse
Taking stock of its offensive abilities, and defending with no weapon, you estimate that the black horse is something that'd kill you quickly.
GRANIMIER
BRFUQUOIS
Re: Tog Weapons
04/06/2006 01:40 PM CDT
To stay on the topic of Toggish slavery, there were many instances of slaves or serfs rising up using the tools that were available to them as weaponry. Take the weapons of Asian martial arts. All of them (with the exception of the swords) were tools that were used by the peasantry to defend themselves. Things like scythes, crank handles, even just long sticks. The Asian peasantry wasn't especially unhappy, but they had weapons none the less. I therefor endorse the idea of Toggish slavery weapons.
-Fuquois-
"A witty saying proves nothing."
- Voltaire
"Barbarians should not have a bonus to forging."
- DiminishedAngel
-Fuquois-
"A witty saying proves nothing."
- Voltaire
"Barbarians should not have a bonus to forging."
- DiminishedAngel
CULLEN1
Re: Tog Weapons
04/06/2006 03:29 PM CDT
>Those of us of European descent reading these boards personally took the land that you were personally caring for.
Totally off topic but:
This reminds me of something my 9 year old daughter said once. I introduced her to a friend of mine, and told her he is from England. I thought she'd think it was neat to know someone from so far away. Nope, not my kid. She got very very quiet, had a sad look, and reached out to put her hand on my friend's hand and said in the most concerned and compassionate tone, "I an SO SORRY that my forefathers hated your forefathers."
Apparently they just learned about the Revolutionary War in school.
My friend was quite taken back, and he told her he forgave her. As far as my daughter is concerned, she has single handedly bridged the gap between England and America.
____
>Working carefully, the orc raider tries to skin you, but barely manages to avoid sliding his own thumb off. With a muttered curse, he kicks your lifeless corpse in disgust.
Totally off topic but:
This reminds me of something my 9 year old daughter said once. I introduced her to a friend of mine, and told her he is from England. I thought she'd think it was neat to know someone from so far away. Nope, not my kid. She got very very quiet, had a sad look, and reached out to put her hand on my friend's hand and said in the most concerned and compassionate tone, "I an SO SORRY that my forefathers hated your forefathers."
Apparently they just learned about the Revolutionary War in school.
My friend was quite taken back, and he told her he forgave her. As far as my daughter is concerned, she has single handedly bridged the gap between England and America.
____
>Working carefully, the orc raider tries to skin you, but barely manages to avoid sliding his own thumb off. With a muttered curse, he kicks your lifeless corpse in disgust.
JACOBSS16
Re: Tog Weapons
04/06/2006 03:38 PM CDT
<<11) An additional TALK option or dedicated verb like the S'kra HISS to reflect the fact we're huge and loud. Something like booms or BOOM, thunders or THUNDER, etc.
If we're going to talk about RP verbs like that, I would really like to have the gor'tog laugh be nice and booming. Great ideas Caraamon, keep them coming.
I don't really talk much on forums but I'm really enjoying putting my ideas and reading this forum a lot. This is probably one of the most fun!
-Tog Tin Can, Eeary Kakler
If we're going to talk about RP verbs like that, I would really like to have the gor'tog laugh be nice and booming. Great ideas Caraamon, keep them coming.
I don't really talk much on forums but I'm really enjoying putting my ideas and reading this forum a lot. This is probably one of the most fun!
-Tog Tin Can, Eeary Kakler
JACOBSS16
Re: Tog Weapons
04/06/2006 04:00 PM CDT
<<Think of in our american history of the predomintaily africian slaves used to harvest things like cotton, as cooks, among other things. They had to use sharp tools to do their jobs yet would have limited overseers, same as I'd imagine the togs would have.
I think going through 1000 years of gor'tog slavery without access to ANYTHING sharp is ridiculous and probably would keep progress down. So I think Diane's point makes sense that togs would have access to sharp objects with simple names in toggish. I'm guessing that slave labor on the islands would be primary for ship building, mining work stone (maybe for ores or stone for buildings), and agriculture and fishing to feed the skras and togs (long winter comes = no food (no agriculture, less fish?) = no more slavery...makes sense). maybe like 'tools' that developed into toggish weapons could be:
Pasnaka-akadis (translation: sweep-blade) --Sickle used for chopping down HUGE rows of bamboo, wheat (whatever was needed) for agriculture- (2he)
Kaknaka-Kulaka (translation: Drive-Hammer) -- spiked hammer used for stonework. (swapable HB/2hb...or if you wanted to be really crazy, HT)
Wakal-akadis (translation: bone-blade) -- mammoth shoulderblade sharpened and used for plowing. (2HE)
ki-kidak (translation: Stone-Axe) -- heavy axe maybe used to break up blocks of stone more precisely (2HE)
And my personal favorite (which is why I formally asked Aurdun for these words in toggish)
Whale-Gutter (Kuwa-waki Kubil which translates to Sea-Serpant Knife...not exactly what I wanted but it was the best I could do) Used to gut and prepare whale meat to feed a camp of hungry togs [whale meat goes a long way]...mean looking blade (needs to be sharp!) (HE)
Anyway, those are some of my ideas for Tog weapons. Add/Criticize/Huzzah these ideas if you want!
-Eeary
I think going through 1000 years of gor'tog slavery without access to ANYTHING sharp is ridiculous and probably would keep progress down. So I think Diane's point makes sense that togs would have access to sharp objects with simple names in toggish. I'm guessing that slave labor on the islands would be primary for ship building, mining work stone (maybe for ores or stone for buildings), and agriculture and fishing to feed the skras and togs (long winter comes = no food (no agriculture, less fish?) = no more slavery...makes sense). maybe like 'tools' that developed into toggish weapons could be:
Pasnaka-akadis (translation: sweep-blade) --Sickle used for chopping down HUGE rows of bamboo, wheat (whatever was needed) for agriculture- (2he)
Kaknaka-Kulaka (translation: Drive-Hammer) -- spiked hammer used for stonework. (swapable HB/2hb...or if you wanted to be really crazy, HT)
Wakal-akadis (translation: bone-blade) -- mammoth shoulderblade sharpened and used for plowing. (2HE)
ki-kidak (translation: Stone-Axe) -- heavy axe maybe used to break up blocks of stone more precisely (2HE)
And my personal favorite (which is why I formally asked Aurdun for these words in toggish)
Whale-Gutter (Kuwa-waki Kubil which translates to Sea-Serpant Knife...not exactly what I wanted but it was the best I could do) Used to gut and prepare whale meat to feed a camp of hungry togs [whale meat goes a long way]...mean looking blade (needs to be sharp!) (HE)
Anyway, those are some of my ideas for Tog weapons. Add/Criticize/Huzzah these ideas if you want!
-Eeary
DR-AURDUN
Re: Tog Weapons
04/06/2006 05:03 PM CDT
Excellent stuff, guys! I have more sticky notes on my monitor now than I care to count. I'd say you all owe me a new pad, but frankly, its worth it to see this board come to life again! Well, that and they're cheap to begin with {g}
~GameMaster Aurdun Smashfoot
~GameMaster Aurdun Smashfoot
DWARB-POWER
Re: Tog Weapons
04/06/2006 05:05 PM CDT
>Oh and as an idea for a Gor'Tog sling, one word for you: hammock!
<<...
<<How that didn't come to my mind at any point stuns me. So simple, yet so outstanding {g}.>>
LOL
- Simon
http://www.phiiskeep.homestead.com/Frontpage.html
<<...
<<How that didn't come to my mind at any point stuns me. So simple, yet so outstanding {g}.>>
LOL
- Simon
http://www.phiiskeep.homestead.com/Frontpage.html
SYLVERWIND
Re: Tog Weapons
04/06/2006 05:13 PM CDT
>> How did they handle it?
Magic.
No, seriously.
Bunch of angry and violent 'Togs + 1 CL-using S'kra == Bunch of dead 'Togs.
Rev. Reene
Khaman says to Mandorsgar, "It would be like finding out that stars are simply great gasfires, symbolic of nothing."
Magic.
No, seriously.
Bunch of angry and violent 'Togs + 1 CL-using S'kra == Bunch of dead 'Togs.
Rev. Reene
Khaman says to Mandorsgar, "It would be like finding out that stars are simply great gasfires, symbolic of nothing."
DIMINISHEDANGEL
Re: Tog Weapons
04/06/2006 05:19 PM CDT
<<Bunch of angry and violent 'Togs + 1 CL-using S'kra == Bunch of dead 'Togs.
The Togs would be commoners. The S'kra Traders probably would be, too. Though DR is populated by players who are what... 95% these mages or warriors or thieves or such of some repute... it doesn't represent the general DR public. I don't recall any incident where the history of the Warrior Mage guild and the history of slave-trading coincide a lot.
It's possible, but I don't think it's been established as the norm. One overseer was probably responsible for a dozen, or more, slaves on large plantations, and he was armed with only a single-shot rifle and perhaps a whip or short sword of some sort. Magic is not needed to subjugate large populations of people (large in more then one sense)... though it certainly could help in DR.
"Decisions I regret: making staff sling my primary weapon, losing the funky chicken, and becoming a Warrior Mage."
-BRFUQUOIS
The Togs would be commoners. The S'kra Traders probably would be, too. Though DR is populated by players who are what... 95% these mages or warriors or thieves or such of some repute... it doesn't represent the general DR public. I don't recall any incident where the history of the Warrior Mage guild and the history of slave-trading coincide a lot.
It's possible, but I don't think it's been established as the norm. One overseer was probably responsible for a dozen, or more, slaves on large plantations, and he was armed with only a single-shot rifle and perhaps a whip or short sword of some sort. Magic is not needed to subjugate large populations of people (large in more then one sense)... though it certainly could help in DR.
"Decisions I regret: making staff sling my primary weapon, losing the funky chicken, and becoming a Warrior Mage."
-BRFUQUOIS
SYLVERWIND
Re: Tog Weapons
04/06/2006 05:29 PM CDT
First...It was an example. The point was that using magic to subjugate a bunch of creatures that are much larger and stronger than you is not only a distinct possibility but very likely given the circumstances.
Second...Who said the Warrior Mage guild would be officially affiliated with it? Nothing would stop the S'kra from hiring an elemental-magic using guard for his abilities.
Rev. Reene
Khaman says to Mandorsgar, "It would be like finding out that stars are simply great gasfires, symbolic of nothing."
Second...Who said the Warrior Mage guild would be officially affiliated with it? Nothing would stop the S'kra from hiring an elemental-magic using guard for his abilities.
Rev. Reene
Khaman says to Mandorsgar, "It would be like finding out that stars are simply great gasfires, symbolic of nothing."
DIMINISHEDANGEL
Re: Tog Weapons
04/06/2006 05:37 PM CDT
<<Second...Who said the Warrior Mage guild would be officially affiliated with it? Nothing would stop the S'kra from hiring an elemental-magic using guard for his abilities.
This is exactly what I was thinking, which is why it's entirely possible for magic to enter into the formula. I was merely pointing out that we've got no fictional literature to back it up (haha). The whole thing is sort of hypothetical. And also, it just seems to me that given the "mainstream" history of the Warrior Mage guild, the 'official' cabbalas and schools might frown upon their arts being used to help propagate slavery. Of course, it depends on the area and on the leader and on the atmosphere of the time, but given a period spanning several centuries, I think it'd be safe to say someone somewhere would object if their magics were used for that sort of purpose.
"Decisions I regret: making staff sling my primary weapon, losing the funky chicken, and becoming a Warrior Mage."
-BRFUQUOIS
This is exactly what I was thinking, which is why it's entirely possible for magic to enter into the formula. I was merely pointing out that we've got no fictional literature to back it up (haha). The whole thing is sort of hypothetical. And also, it just seems to me that given the "mainstream" history of the Warrior Mage guild, the 'official' cabbalas and schools might frown upon their arts being used to help propagate slavery. Of course, it depends on the area and on the leader and on the atmosphere of the time, but given a period spanning several centuries, I think it'd be safe to say someone somewhere would object if their magics were used for that sort of purpose.
"Decisions I regret: making staff sling my primary weapon, losing the funky chicken, and becoming a Warrior Mage."
-BRFUQUOIS
RAIST
Re: Tog Weapons
04/06/2006 06:42 PM CDT
>>I can't imagine a S'kra Mur slavemaster being very comfortable with the idea of watching over a group of Togs on the job. - Ogoh
I can, they most likely had a great many things in their favor. First, slavery is as much psychological as anything else. If someone tells you that "you are a slave and can never hope to escape" enough, you tend to believe it. Other "effective" slavery techniques are allowing families and making it clear the children/spouse will suffer for misbehavoir. Add it extra rations for tattling, etc.
In general, I imagine the most likely problems came from young Gor'Togs who felt they had nothing to lose and didn't care whether they lived or died. At that point, they'll do a lot of damage, but eventually the S'kra's numbers will win out.
>>Again, dont take plotting into consideration as from what I've read the togs seemed mostly happy with their lots while in the employ of the s'kra, if there is anything in books to the different please list which one(s) & I'll recant my statement. Or if a GM comes in & says otherwise, of course 8-) - Diane
>>All the literature I've read has also suggested that (generally speaking) things weren't that bad. -Ogoh
Two reasons for this, one slaves don't usually have any idea they can have things better, two the only surviving books of this era were most likely written by S'kra who of course "know" all their slaves are happy (hopefully I will be proved wrong on this second point by a wonderful GM Aurdun who magically pulls out lost Gor'Tog tomes written during this time <nudge><nudge>).
>>its worth it to see this board come to life again! - Aurdun
Heh, well I have been bothering every Gor'Tog I see in game to get over here and post their opinons, but yer right, its GREAT to see it.
Something else I'd love to see would be a book by another race who began to study the Gor'Togs just after they'd been kicked out by the S'kra. How did these first Gor'Togs react to their new freedom? That would make a good book if you ask me.
Caraamon Majerye,
Gor'Tog Barbarian Extrordi...Well somewhat average
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
I can, they most likely had a great many things in their favor. First, slavery is as much psychological as anything else. If someone tells you that "you are a slave and can never hope to escape" enough, you tend to believe it. Other "effective" slavery techniques are allowing families and making it clear the children/spouse will suffer for misbehavoir. Add it extra rations for tattling, etc.
In general, I imagine the most likely problems came from young Gor'Togs who felt they had nothing to lose and didn't care whether they lived or died. At that point, they'll do a lot of damage, but eventually the S'kra's numbers will win out.
>>Again, dont take plotting into consideration as from what I've read the togs seemed mostly happy with their lots while in the employ of the s'kra, if there is anything in books to the different please list which one(s) & I'll recant my statement. Or if a GM comes in & says otherwise, of course 8-) - Diane
>>All the literature I've read has also suggested that (generally speaking) things weren't that bad. -Ogoh
Two reasons for this, one slaves don't usually have any idea they can have things better, two the only surviving books of this era were most likely written by S'kra who of course "know" all their slaves are happy (hopefully I will be proved wrong on this second point by a wonderful GM Aurdun who magically pulls out lost Gor'Tog tomes written during this time <nudge><nudge>).
>>its worth it to see this board come to life again! - Aurdun
Heh, well I have been bothering every Gor'Tog I see in game to get over here and post their opinons, but yer right, its GREAT to see it.
Something else I'd love to see would be a book by another race who began to study the Gor'Togs just after they'd been kicked out by the S'kra. How did these first Gor'Togs react to their new freedom? That would make a good book if you ask me.
Caraamon Majerye,
Gor'Tog Barbarian Extrordi...Well somewhat average
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
VROTSOSJ
Re: Tog Weapons
04/06/2006 09:09 PM CDT
Qi wasn't involved in the human/elven war except to provide materials from what I see (the slaves that weren't released until the 800s) and again...slavery is neither complete nor gone overnight.
If there were reports of toggish slavery 500+ years after slavery was generally seen as ended on the mainland, an obvious exception here, I do believe there would still be enslaved mountain elves.
Personally I don't think our racial weapons would be those of slaves since while a dramatic change, I don't see it as one upon which the togs are built, especially not in these times.
Elves it would make more sense, due to the generation gaps being dramatically smaller and the general tendency at least from what I can tell to oppose such a thing as slavery, and the Mountain Elves do still hold it against dwarves from what I can tell.
So while diversity is great, leg irons and what not, I'd be more in favor of weapons that were designed as weapons.
I am --- Navak
If there were reports of toggish slavery 500+ years after slavery was generally seen as ended on the mainland, an obvious exception here, I do believe there would still be enslaved mountain elves.
Personally I don't think our racial weapons would be those of slaves since while a dramatic change, I don't see it as one upon which the togs are built, especially not in these times.
Elves it would make more sense, due to the generation gaps being dramatically smaller and the general tendency at least from what I can tell to oppose such a thing as slavery, and the Mountain Elves do still hold it against dwarves from what I can tell.
So while diversity is great, leg irons and what not, I'd be more in favor of weapons that were designed as weapons.
I am --- Navak
PURHEART
Re: Tog Weapons
04/06/2006 09:15 PM CDT
Umm Fuquois, you also seemed to miss the winky eye afterwards. I know noone alive currently has taken my ancestors land, I could also say the same about certain RL claims but its not part of this discussion, it was an attempt at a joke which seem to miss you entirely. But anyways.
Thats why I tried to keep my references to what happened in RL really ahh neutral & whatnot, but it was the only thing I could think of on the fly to use in comparision that most here would know & hopefully understand if even only on a rudimental basis, feelings out of it.
You can subsititute any history you want, I was thinking common to most & easy 8-)
As has been said there are many things that can keep one in certain states, it can be said of why some women stay in bad relatationships, why for many yrs togs didnt try to break free, why a certain group of elves did. Nothing says that slaves arent still kept today IG under different names, such as servitude or willingly serving masters/mistresses. And I'm speaking non-sexual here so lets not delve into that realm.
One could always debate about the books we currently have IG & who they were written by and that point of view, I think it would be interesting to see as was suggested a book about some togs who are freshly released due to the s'kra kicking them out.
But I'm sorry to say I do have a issue with items only being usable by one race, no matter if its food or weapons or armor. I'd love to know if the GMs can pin down how much of the shardian racial armor is sold on say a weekly basis but I'm doubting they can. I'd say more armor is sold to what I'll call 'anybody size' than specific size, aka racial size.
And we all know what will happen when say tog sized food/drinks/weapons/armor are released, every other race will demand the same for themselves, putting great strain upon the GMs who already oversee certain races & leaving races that may not have 'champions' to whine and moan about it.
Just my thoughts and ideas, YMMV
Diane
"Slo ku pivo'hrr'shu, Azhaquai Tel'rath'a Gavelg. Ushnish's s'zhaan."
"Mivar Feas, Alrar Abues. Ruai Abarai'ati, Abarakh Zaradil."
"Moya Dha ch'ohalk vassai. Alia jacta est. Adflictatio, Delectatio.."
Thats why I tried to keep my references to what happened in RL really ahh neutral & whatnot, but it was the only thing I could think of on the fly to use in comparision that most here would know & hopefully understand if even only on a rudimental basis, feelings out of it.
You can subsititute any history you want, I was thinking common to most & easy 8-)
As has been said there are many things that can keep one in certain states, it can be said of why some women stay in bad relatationships, why for many yrs togs didnt try to break free, why a certain group of elves did. Nothing says that slaves arent still kept today IG under different names, such as servitude or willingly serving masters/mistresses. And I'm speaking non-sexual here so lets not delve into that realm.
One could always debate about the books we currently have IG & who they were written by and that point of view, I think it would be interesting to see as was suggested a book about some togs who are freshly released due to the s'kra kicking them out.
But I'm sorry to say I do have a issue with items only being usable by one race, no matter if its food or weapons or armor. I'd love to know if the GMs can pin down how much of the shardian racial armor is sold on say a weekly basis but I'm doubting they can. I'd say more armor is sold to what I'll call 'anybody size' than specific size, aka racial size.
And we all know what will happen when say tog sized food/drinks/weapons/armor are released, every other race will demand the same for themselves, putting great strain upon the GMs who already oversee certain races & leaving races that may not have 'champions' to whine and moan about it.
Just my thoughts and ideas, YMMV
Diane
"Slo ku pivo'hrr'shu, Azhaquai Tel'rath'a Gavelg. Ushnish's s'zhaan."
"Mivar Feas, Alrar Abues. Ruai Abarai'ati, Abarakh Zaradil."
"Moya Dha ch'ohalk vassai. Alia jacta est. Adflictatio, Delectatio.."
SYLVERWIND
Re: Tog Weapons
04/06/2006 10:29 PM CDT
It makes no sense to believe that, though.
The mountain elves were enslaved by a specific clan in a specific area. The dwarves doing the enslaving were all slaughtered when they freed themselves.
So how would they continue keeping slaves if they were all killed and the mountain elves took over the old area?
Rev. Reene
Khaman says to Mandorsgar, "It would be like finding out that stars are simply great gasfires, symbolic of nothing."
The mountain elves were enslaved by a specific clan in a specific area. The dwarves doing the enslaving were all slaughtered when they freed themselves.
So how would they continue keeping slaves if they were all killed and the mountain elves took over the old area?
Rev. Reene
Khaman says to Mandorsgar, "It would be like finding out that stars are simply great gasfires, symbolic of nothing."
JOUBEYRT
Re: Tog Weapons
04/07/2006 08:50 AM CDT
<<So how would they continue keeping slaves if they were all killed and the mountain elves took over the old area?>>
Because Morganae wouldn't LIE about what happened there to make herself look better. It'd just be.. well.. out of character for her! Then again, it wouldn't be out of character for her to randomly slaughter (or crystallize) people for her own amusement.
If anything can be learned from Elanthian books, it has to be that bias runs rampant. Victors write the history, etc and so forth. When it comes to history, you'd be hard pressed to find any stance that couldn't be argued from the opposite side (in most cases using the same reference material) in a logical manner.
~Joub
Because Morganae wouldn't LIE about what happened there to make herself look better. It'd just be.. well.. out of character for her! Then again, it wouldn't be out of character for her to randomly slaughter (or crystallize) people for her own amusement.
If anything can be learned from Elanthian books, it has to be that bias runs rampant. Victors write the history, etc and so forth. When it comes to history, you'd be hard pressed to find any stance that couldn't be argued from the opposite side (in most cases using the same reference material) in a logical manner.
~Joub
SYLVERWIND
Re: Tog Weapons
04/07/2006 09:10 AM CDT
If there were survivors somewhere I'm sure they would have something to say about it some time.
And it wouldn't be out of character for Morganae to slaughter every man, woman, and child in the Mountain out of spite and bitterness either, exactly like the book describes.
Rev. Reene
Khaman says to Mandorsgar, "It would be like finding out that stars are simply great gasfires, symbolic of nothing."
And it wouldn't be out of character for Morganae to slaughter every man, woman, and child in the Mountain out of spite and bitterness either, exactly like the book describes.
Rev. Reene
Khaman says to Mandorsgar, "It would be like finding out that stars are simply great gasfires, symbolic of nothing."
JOUBEYRT
Re: Tog Weapons
04/07/2006 10:01 AM CDT
<<If there were survivors somewhere I'm sure they would have something to say about it some time.>>
Who's to say they were 'survivors'? Let's say the Dwarves just decided that Stone Clan called to them for the big chili cookoff. They pack up, move on, and leave the worthless slaves behind to fend for themselves. Morganae (being the cold, calculating, decietful woman she is) starts spreading rumors that they wiped these Dwarves out. Hoorah for the free Mountain Elves! Anyone else that messes with us gets the same!
Next thing you know, books are written, turning this 'story' into gospel. The Dwarves figure they were done with the whole deal anyway, (the whole slavery thing being more trouble than its worth) let the story slide, figuring they can use it to their advantage later on (Woe be us who were enslaved!)
Now, with all that said... I think the above is a buncha hogwash and I personally lean towards the books description of what happened. The only point I'm attempting to make is that going strictly by history books in Elanthia tends to get folks in trouble. The only thing you can count on for sure in them is the writer having some sort of bias or 'flavoring' up the story with fun tidbits of imagination.
<<And it wouldn't be out of character for Morganae to slaughter every man, woman, and child in the Mountain out of spite and bitterness>>
This is what I said :D Having dealt with her a coupla times I have absolutely no doubts about what she's capable and willing to do to further and strengthen her own powerbase.
~Joub
Who's to say they were 'survivors'? Let's say the Dwarves just decided that Stone Clan called to them for the big chili cookoff. They pack up, move on, and leave the worthless slaves behind to fend for themselves. Morganae (being the cold, calculating, decietful woman she is) starts spreading rumors that they wiped these Dwarves out. Hoorah for the free Mountain Elves! Anyone else that messes with us gets the same!
Next thing you know, books are written, turning this 'story' into gospel. The Dwarves figure they were done with the whole deal anyway, (the whole slavery thing being more trouble than its worth) let the story slide, figuring they can use it to their advantage later on (Woe be us who were enslaved!)
Now, with all that said... I think the above is a buncha hogwash and I personally lean towards the books description of what happened. The only point I'm attempting to make is that going strictly by history books in Elanthia tends to get folks in trouble. The only thing you can count on for sure in them is the writer having some sort of bias or 'flavoring' up the story with fun tidbits of imagination.
<<And it wouldn't be out of character for Morganae to slaughter every man, woman, and child in the Mountain out of spite and bitterness>>
This is what I said :D Having dealt with her a coupla times I have absolutely no doubts about what she's capable and willing to do to further and strengthen her own powerbase.
~Joub
MOD-AESTIVA
Re: Tog Weapons ::nudge::
04/07/2006 11:05 AM CDT
While the debate on Elven history is interesting, this is the Gor'Tog folder and I would hate for the creativity about new Tog ideas to be quelled because this discussion went off topic. Please feel free to continue the conversation about Dwarves and Mountain Elves in the Elven folder.
Thanks much!
Any questions or comments, please contact me at MOD-Aestiva@play.net, Senior Board Monitor Annwyl at DR-Annwyl@play.net or Message Board Supervisor Cecco at DR-Cecco@play.net
~~* Tiva *~~
When butting heads, it's best to have horns.
Thanks much!
Any questions or comments, please contact me at MOD-Aestiva@play.net, Senior Board Monitor Annwyl at DR-Annwyl@play.net or Message Board Supervisor Cecco at DR-Cecco@play.net
~~* Tiva *~~
When butting heads, it's best to have horns.
JACOBSS16
Re: Tog Weapons
04/07/2006 11:22 AM CDT
<< I would hate for the creativity about new Tog ideas to be quelled because this discussion went off topic.
Yeah, back to Togs. We seem to be straying a little bit off topic with the dwarves and mountain elves. I think we're on a really good thing here with justifying tog-only weapons through toggish history of slavery.
This is a 1000 year or so period to which many different types of weapons could be developed. That is a HUGE amount of time. Plus maybe the tools that togs developed into basic weapons were expanded upon after the togs were released from slavery...the long winter might have caused togs to hunt with those tools turned weapons and expand more on them. We don't know. The slave 'tools' might have started the weapon creation and now into a 1000 year old tog weapon standard.
Like GM Aurdun stated earlier, "Its a lot harder to justify why only a tog can use something than it is to come up with a history for a weapon and then name it."
Yeah, back to Togs. We seem to be straying a little bit off topic with the dwarves and mountain elves. I think we're on a really good thing here with justifying tog-only weapons through toggish history of slavery.
This is a 1000 year or so period to which many different types of weapons could be developed. That is a HUGE amount of time. Plus maybe the tools that togs developed into basic weapons were expanded upon after the togs were released from slavery...the long winter might have caused togs to hunt with those tools turned weapons and expand more on them. We don't know. The slave 'tools' might have started the weapon creation and now into a 1000 year old tog weapon standard.
Like GM Aurdun stated earlier, "Its a lot harder to justify why only a tog can use something than it is to come up with a history for a weapon and then name it."
VROTSOSJ
Re: Tog Weapons
04/07/2006 09:45 PM CDT
As a player I'd rather see mostly non-slave oriented weaponry.
As Navak, I doubt he would use a slave oriented unless it was particularly effective over other weapons since restrictions upon his person leaves a bad taste in his mouth.
As a player, I don't see why most racial weapons wouldn't be weapons that were designed as weapons along with the usual inclusion of farming implements.
I also believe a majority of racial weapons would most likely be larger-sized dwarf-type weapons. Taking into consideration the release from slavery and the niche they found within the dwarven community.
I am --- Navak
As Navak, I doubt he would use a slave oriented unless it was particularly effective over other weapons since restrictions upon his person leaves a bad taste in his mouth.
As a player, I don't see why most racial weapons wouldn't be weapons that were designed as weapons along with the usual inclusion of farming implements.
I also believe a majority of racial weapons would most likely be larger-sized dwarf-type weapons. Taking into consideration the release from slavery and the niche they found within the dwarven community.
I am --- Navak
DWARB-POWER
Re: Tog Weapons
04/07/2006 09:55 PM CDT
Just some suggestions for names of those weapons (feel free to use them Aurdun, Roderigo or anyone):
an amangka awak (translated into mad/angry mace) MB
a palanh anaka (translated into justice make. I wanted it to be justice maker, ah well. :P) Longbow or Composite Bow
a dul kidak (translated into mighty battle-axe) HE
a mubul akadis (translated into nightmare blade) 2HE
a burnaka kutulh (translated into thunder sword) HE/2HE (like a bastard sword template)
an uruku kulaka (translated into war hammer) 2HB (can hit from pole range)
a nayal sibang (translated into sky arrow)
a dirau wami (translated into eagle crossbow) LX or HX
a yulwit kipi (translated into legend shield) Large Sized Shield
an amat wakiba (translated into sorrow/grief scimitar) ME
a kuyun sunana (translated into glory halberd) Halberd
a lipka tungmukulh (translated into shining hauberk) HC
a tiriska dapa (translated into fierce pike) Pike
a sakauka mara (translated into hard glove) HP
a dasika kuru nusuk (translated into strong leopard leather) Leather
There's a few more I have in mind, but that's OK for now.
- Simon
http://www.phiiskeep.homestead.com/Frontpage.html
an amangka awak (translated into mad/angry mace) MB
a palanh anaka (translated into justice make. I wanted it to be justice maker, ah well. :P) Longbow or Composite Bow
a dul kidak (translated into mighty battle-axe) HE
a mubul akadis (translated into nightmare blade) 2HE
a burnaka kutulh (translated into thunder sword) HE/2HE (like a bastard sword template)
an uruku kulaka (translated into war hammer) 2HB (can hit from pole range)
a nayal sibang (translated into sky arrow)
a dirau wami (translated into eagle crossbow) LX or HX
a yulwit kipi (translated into legend shield) Large Sized Shield
an amat wakiba (translated into sorrow/grief scimitar) ME
a kuyun sunana (translated into glory halberd) Halberd
a lipka tungmukulh (translated into shining hauberk) HC
a tiriska dapa (translated into fierce pike) Pike
a sakauka mara (translated into hard glove) HP
a dasika kuru nusuk (translated into strong leopard leather) Leather
There's a few more I have in mind, but that's OK for now.
- Simon
http://www.phiiskeep.homestead.com/Frontpage.html
DIMINISHEDANGEL
Re: Tog Weapons
04/07/2006 10:18 PM CDT
Well, they're doing it for Rakash and Prydaen. I guess Toggish weapons wouldn't be any different.
As a player, though, I'd personally like to see the humorous/iconical/incidental weapons whatever be sort of Anglicized.
Examples I think are already in-game:
Skullcrusher
Pigsticker
etc etc.
"Decisions I regret: making staff sling my primary weapon, losing the funky chicken, and becoming a Warrior Mage."
-BRFUQUOIS
As a player, though, I'd personally like to see the humorous/iconical/incidental weapons whatever be sort of Anglicized.
Examples I think are already in-game:
Skullcrusher
Pigsticker
etc etc.
"Decisions I regret: making staff sling my primary weapon, losing the funky chicken, and becoming a Warrior Mage."
-BRFUQUOIS
GNOMICGYPSY
Re: Tog Weapons
04/08/2006 06:12 AM CDT
I haven't been reading this thread but I did want to say it's nice to see your name Joubyert.
Greckle
Zelaide
frankenstein never scared me
marsupials do
cause they're fast
Greckle
Zelaide
frankenstein never scared me
marsupials do
cause they're fast
RAIST
Re: Tog Weapons
04/09/2006 02:11 AM CDT
Here's something else that I'd find interesting: riding snakes. Huge snakes, like thicket viper or bigger to be ridden. Not only would it be great, to those of us Gor'Togs that don't really care about biology, might be a bit of revenge :P
Caraamon Majerye,
Gor'Tog Barbarian Extrordi...Well somewhat average
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
Caraamon Majerye,
Gor'Tog Barbarian Extrordi...Well somewhat average
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
RAIST
Re: Tog Suggestions (was Tog Weapons)
04/10/2006 09:38 PM CDT
I want to be able to grunt when I'm dead. Especially when I'm dead. I mean grunts just say it all!
Caraamon Majerye,
Gor'Tog Barbarian Extrordi...Well somewhat average
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
Caraamon Majerye,
Gor'Tog Barbarian Extrordi...Well somewhat average
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
PHELPSC
Re: Tog Weapons
04/14/2006 12:04 PM CDT
<< Like GM Aurdun stated earlier, "Its a lot harder to justify why only a tog can use something than it is to come up with a history for a weapon and then name it." >>
Gah, I've been too busy to do the posts that I had planned - I will endeavor to do so this weekend. But in response to the comment, above, I think we can have our cake AND eat it too. Let's not focus on WHY only a Tog could use the weapon, but instead concentrate on why only a Tog would CHOOSE to use the weapon. I'll finish working on the post that I have planned for this weekend, but a hint is this: It would be so heavy, that only a Tog would consider picking it up and using it, let alone as a weapon. Sure, other races could probably use it, but do they REALLY want the 25sec RT that comes along with being a weaker race? Probably not.
- Barbarian Gash Breaknow of M'Riss
Gah, I've been too busy to do the posts that I had planned - I will endeavor to do so this weekend. But in response to the comment, above, I think we can have our cake AND eat it too. Let's not focus on WHY only a Tog could use the weapon, but instead concentrate on why only a Tog would CHOOSE to use the weapon. I'll finish working on the post that I have planned for this weekend, but a hint is this: It would be so heavy, that only a Tog would consider picking it up and using it, let alone as a weapon. Sure, other races could probably use it, but do they REALLY want the 25sec RT that comes along with being a weaker race? Probably not.
- Barbarian Gash Breaknow of M'Riss
DWARB-POWER
Re: Tog Weapons
04/14/2006 11:56 PM CDT
<< Like GM Aurdun stated earlier, "Its a lot harder to justify why only a tog can use something than it is to come up with a history for a weapon and then name it." >>
- You could make the Gor'Tog weapons to have better appraisal in the hands of a Gor'Tog than another race.
- You could add an extra fatigue/spirit hit for usage of the weapon if not used by a Gor'Tog.
- Gor'Togs would want to use weapons made for them/by them because it is made by a Gor'Tog with background information on those weapons (racial pride).
- You could give messaging that the weapon is too large in the hands of a non-Gor'Tog when the non-Gor'Tog attempts to use an attack/combat manuever of any kind.
- You could make the weapon heavy in weight, although this may reduce the balance potential of the weapon and make it not worth while (unless the weapon template fits that balance: i.e. - two-handed blunt).
- Simon
http://www.phiiskeep.homestead.com/Frontpage.html
- You could make the Gor'Tog weapons to have better appraisal in the hands of a Gor'Tog than another race.
- You could add an extra fatigue/spirit hit for usage of the weapon if not used by a Gor'Tog.
- Gor'Togs would want to use weapons made for them/by them because it is made by a Gor'Tog with background information on those weapons (racial pride).
- You could give messaging that the weapon is too large in the hands of a non-Gor'Tog when the non-Gor'Tog attempts to use an attack/combat manuever of any kind.
- You could make the weapon heavy in weight, although this may reduce the balance potential of the weapon and make it not worth while (unless the weapon template fits that balance: i.e. - two-handed blunt).
- Simon
http://www.phiiskeep.homestead.com/Frontpage.html
THUNDERHAWK
Re: Tog Weapons
04/15/2006 09:43 AM CDT
I've always wanted to use the gates of Arthe Dale as a shield!!
RAIST
Re: Tog Weapons
04/15/2006 02:18 PM CDT
While I love the ideas, just in general I think we'd be more likely to get stuff if we didn't ask for things that are better in the hands of Gor'Togs. The GMs seem to get a little twitchy when we do.
Caraamon Majerye,
Gor'Tog Barbarian Extrordi...Well somewhat average
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
Caraamon Majerye,
Gor'Tog Barbarian Extrordi...Well somewhat average
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
BRFUQUOIS
Re: Tog Weapons
04/15/2006 02:43 PM CDT
Why not? Off the top of my head, the Elves, Kaldars, Halflings, and Dwarves all have special weapons that are better in their hands.
-Fuquois-
"A witty saying proves nothing."
- Voltaire
"Barbarians should not have a bonus to forging."
- DiminishedAngel
"People 'should' steal smart."
- Wighten
-Fuquois-
"A witty saying proves nothing."
- Voltaire
"Barbarians should not have a bonus to forging."
- DiminishedAngel
"People 'should' steal smart."
- Wighten
DIMINISHEDANGEL
Re: Tog Weapons
04/15/2006 02:54 PM CDT
Dwarves are the only race with non-auction weapons (e.g., regularly available in any sense of the word).
"Decisions I regret: making staff sling my primary weapon, losing the funky chicken, and becoming a Warrior Mage."
-BRFUQUOIS
"Decisions I regret: making staff sling my primary weapon, losing the funky chicken, and becoming a Warrior Mage."
-BRFUQUOIS
DR-AURDUN
Re: Tog Weapons
04/15/2006 09:35 PM CDT
>Why not? Off the top of my head, the Elves, Kaldars, Halflings, and Dwarves all have special weapons that are better in their hands.
That reminds me...
~GameMaster Aurdun Smashfoot
That reminds me...
~GameMaster Aurdun Smashfoot
BRFUQUOIS
Re: Tog Weapons
04/16/2006 02:48 AM CDT
>Dwarves are the only race with non-auction weapons
And it's funny to me that the most readily available racial weapon is the best (ie - a bump to slice and impact, and a big bump to balance and power instead of a bump to a single statistic). I was rather disappointed with the Kaldaran sword especially. It's basically just one of the Steeled Resolve claymores minus a few stones. At least my ceremonial iltesh has heavy puncture to go with its mod slice.
-Fuquois-
"A witty saying proves nothing."
- Voltaire
"Barbarians should not have a bonus to forging."
- DiminishedAngel
"People 'should' steal smart."
- Wighten
And it's funny to me that the most readily available racial weapon is the best (ie - a bump to slice and impact, and a big bump to balance and power instead of a bump to a single statistic). I was rather disappointed with the Kaldaran sword especially. It's basically just one of the Steeled Resolve claymores minus a few stones. At least my ceremonial iltesh has heavy puncture to go with its mod slice.
-Fuquois-
"A witty saying proves nothing."
- Voltaire
"Barbarians should not have a bonus to forging."
- DiminishedAngel
"People 'should' steal smart."
- Wighten
BRFUQUOIS
Re: Tog Weapons
04/16/2006 02:49 AM CDT
Oh.. and for the topic... I think it would be great to have an enhanced-for-Tog weapon available out there.
-Fuquois-
"A witty saying proves nothing."
- Voltaire
"Barbarians should not have a bonus to forging."
- DiminishedAngel
"People 'should' steal smart."
- Wighten
-Fuquois-
"A witty saying proves nothing."
- Voltaire
"Barbarians should not have a bonus to forging."
- DiminishedAngel
"People 'should' steal smart."
- Wighten
RAIST
Re: Tog Weapons
04/16/2006 03:33 AM CDT
>>Why not? Off the top of my head, the Elves, Kaldars, Halflings, and Dwarves all have special weapons that are better in their hands.
Eh? Really? I was only aware of the tunnelers axe and that kinda silly kaldar warsword. Hmmm, guess that's what I get for playing a Gor'Tog exclusively.
Caraamon Majerye,
Gor'Tog Barbarian Extrordi...Well somewhat average
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
Eh? Really? I was only aware of the tunnelers axe and that kinda silly kaldar warsword. Hmmm, guess that's what I get for playing a Gor'Tog exclusively.
Caraamon Majerye,
Gor'Tog Barbarian Extrordi...Well somewhat average
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
DIMINISHEDANGEL
Re: Tog Weapons
04/16/2006 08:23 AM CDT
<<Eh? Really? I was only aware of the tunnelers axe and that kinda silly kaldar warsword. Hmmm, guess that's what I get for playing a Gor'Tog exclusively.
As Fuquois said, the only real weapon that would be enviable as the dwarven one. If they did make Tog weapons I hope they would be good. The others are worthwhile I guess, but it's mostly just the 'cool' factor then it is the actual damage.
"Decisions I regret: making staff sling my primary weapon, losing the funky chicken, and becoming a Warrior Mage."
-BRFUQUOIS
As Fuquois said, the only real weapon that would be enviable as the dwarven one. If they did make Tog weapons I hope they would be good. The others are worthwhile I guess, but it's mostly just the 'cool' factor then it is the actual damage.
"Decisions I regret: making staff sling my primary weapon, losing the funky chicken, and becoming a Warrior Mage."
-BRFUQUOIS
MFBERG
Re: Tog Weapons
04/16/2006 07:03 PM CDT
>Why not? Off the top of my head, ....
That reminds me...
~GameMaster Aurdun Smashfoot
Scalp Wax!
mfberg
That reminds me...
~GameMaster Aurdun Smashfoot
Scalp Wax!
mfberg
MFBERG
Re: Tog Weapons
04/16/2006 09:02 PM CDT
I'll go for some language right now.
a ti kuda (or tikuda) - stick sling - staff sling
a kukuda - fire sling - staff sling
an uli ti - warrior stick - Short Staff
an itukwana pan tingka - big branch - QS
a kukidak - fire (perhaps fired/forged) axe - 2HE
We are the Kortok. I used to read this as "People of the Stronghold". However it may be more at korta or gentle. So we might call ourselves the "Gentle people".
mfberg
- from the 'Tog dictionary - wakumbai [n] mythical hairy ape-like creature with one leg.
As in the 'Tog insult - "Min daka supa as dalanasu wakumbai." or "You fight like a lame wakumbai."
a ti kuda (or tikuda) - stick sling - staff sling
a kukuda - fire sling - staff sling
an uli ti - warrior stick - Short Staff
an itukwana pan tingka - big branch - QS
a kukidak - fire (perhaps fired/forged) axe - 2HE
We are the Kortok. I used to read this as "People of the Stronghold". However it may be more at korta or gentle. So we might call ourselves the "Gentle people".
mfberg
- from the 'Tog dictionary - wakumbai [n] mythical hairy ape-like creature with one leg.
As in the 'Tog insult - "Min daka supa as dalanasu wakumbai." or "You fight like a lame wakumbai."
SAWYERS3
Re: Tog Weapons
05/15/2006 02:32 PM CDT
I know this is a bit late...
Had an Idea for a Gor'tog weapon, a simple weapon really, just cloth and chains wrapped around a Gor'togs fists, thats all really.
Gilvore Sneaksie-Sasiknak and others.
http://www.weebls-stuff.com/toons/kenya/
http://www.weebls-stuff.com/toons/badgers/
http://www.weebls-stuff.com/toons/footy/
Had an Idea for a Gor'tog weapon, a simple weapon really, just cloth and chains wrapped around a Gor'togs fists, thats all really.
Gilvore Sneaksie-Sasiknak and others.
http://www.weebls-stuff.com/toons/kenya/
http://www.weebls-stuff.com/toons/badgers/
http://www.weebls-stuff.com/toons/footy/
