Ya know, I'd love to see oversized Gor'Tog weapons. Like a Gor'Tog bastard sword that can only be used two-handed by smaller folks.

>SWAP SWORD
"You attempt to change your grip, but the weapon slips from your grip. Maybe you need bigger hands?"

Just a fun idea. At least for me.

---

Caraamon Majerye,
Gor'Tog Barbarian Extrordi...Well somewhat average
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html

Aurdun I could kiss you. Or give you a really firm handshake.

Even the fact you're thinking about it gives me confidence that something fun will happen.

Here's another idea for you should you need some fun stuff for Toggish times:

A barn door (shield)
LOOK: It looks like someone simply dismounted a fully intact barn door and then decided to attach straps to it. It seems they even included the hinges.....

A horses ribcage (percussion instrument)
LOOK: This massive drum was apparently made from some sort of skin stretched over an equine ribcage. Talk about beating a dead horse!

..........

Actually, I was going to put a whole list of ideas up, but I'm just too tired. I'll try to do them later, because there's so much fun you can do when you're huge.

---

Caraamon Majerye,
Gor'Tog Barbarian Extrordi...Well somewhat average
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html

Hehe. Mixed with some other suggestions I've swiped from on the boards, I'm pondering this and discussing possiblities for things with some others. As per my norm, no promises as it is behind quite a bit on my list, but we'll see. There is something, but I'm not sure of its status, so I'm not going to say anything. ::evil grin::


~GameMaster Aurdun Smashfoot

I would like some sort of HT "throwing blades", balanced like a throwing dagger, just a lot bigger.

That's a brilliant idea! I wish I'd thought of it first.

Anyway, judging by the Togball history book, we were at least used for mining, so why not a large pick (as in pickaxe minus the axe).

---

Caraamon Majerye,
Gor'Tog Barbarian Extrordi...Well somewhat average
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html

Excellent stuff, guys. Glad to see more posting, too. :)

One thing about toggish weapons is this. I think that there is more of a chance if we aren't trying for things like, for instance, the dwarven tunneler's axe, as in being exclusive to tog usage. Its a lot harder to justify why only a tog can use something than it is to come up with a history for a weapon and then name it. Even then, I feel that it absolutely must work. One thing that I know Roderigo and I both agree on is that neither of us will put something significant out there just to have it out there. Toggish weapons are obviously important and in no way would they be something we just slap together.

That being said, I'm thrilled to hear some of your ideas on toggish weapons. I like the idea of dual purpose tools, kind of like the kama. Granted, I think we'd use something a bit more... massive than a kama. {g}

As for words, I'm more than happy to run them by the appropriate people if you guys feel certain words should be added. If you have ideas for words that you think should be added, please send them to myself and Roderigo. We'll be happy to see what we can do.

Just as a heads up, I'm a bit bogged down for the next few weeks, but I always read every e-mail I get from you guys and do my best to reply, but if I don't, please don't get discouraged.


~GameMaster Aurdun Smashfoot

>>As far as size, well its not like togs are like that troll in one of the Harry P movies, where it totally dwarfed the kids, it was I'm guessing supposed to top around 15' to 20' compared to what, 4' kids?
>>I've always thought the size scale in DR is way off, I dont remember offhand what size togs are supposed to top at, what 7-9 ft? S'kra are 5.5 ft to 6.5 or so? Yeah, I dont pay much attention to that stuff so cant quote what race falls into what sizing bracket so thats really not much of a size difference if you say put a avg size s'kra at 6' & a avg size tog at 8', 2' isnt much of a difference.

It may not seem like a huge difference until you realize that's the difference between a short person and a basketball player. And that's just height. Add in the muscle bulk that comes with it, and its a huge amount. Gor'Togs cap out at 10 feet while S'kra cap at 6.25 for the females. Almost 4 feet is scarey.

That's enough to severely alter the center of balance, length and multiple other properties of anything sized for a Gor'Tog. You think being left handed is bad, imagine having your hand bigger than some people's heads.

I personally am not looking for anything as severe as the dwarven tunneler's axe, but I AM very much for seeing things more along the lines of the Shard racial armors or those old cloaks that had sizing restrictions. Something to make people realize just how much larger Gor'Togs are.

Here's some things I'd like to see:

1) Book/stories on
* the Gor'Tog times in slavery (novels would be fun, there's gotta be some good stories there)
* the Gor'Tog emperor's of the Five Star Empire
* Uthmor, one of my favorite Gor'Togs
* Gor'Tog mythology (S'kra say we were trolls, what do we say?, etc.)
2) Cultural stuff in general:
* art and music (how about a song scroll having an ancient Gor'Tog chant/song/ballad/musicy thingie)
* wedding proceedures
* child rearing practices
* food/drink (mmmm bloodgrog! but why bloodgrog?)
* architecture (do we feel happier in open areas or are we like dwarves and like to feel surrounded?)
3) A Gor'Tog merchant who makes items that illustrate the size difference, not by changes in stats, but by different WEARs and such for non-Gor'Togs ("The pants hang down like a sack on you and the belt doesn't have holes anywhere near your size, maybe you ought to go find some clothing not sized for gods?")
4) Racial weapons based off of tools (as previously suggested, damn I wish I'd thought of it). Examples:
* mining pick
* pestle club
* flail made out of wrist/leg shackles
* rake-type halberdish thingie
* combination musical instrument / weapons (Light blunt xylophone hammers anyone?)
5) Our size being represented when we brawl, not necessarily as a bonus or penalty, but maybe as access to additional verbs or RP tools ("Caraamon engulfs the halfling in a grapple"). Not only that but as slaves we had restricted access to weapons and probably learned everything we could about real hand-to-hand (case in point is the martial art capoera (sp?), a deadly martial art designed as a dance)
6) the ability to pick up dead bodies. I'm tired of 3 second RT for a halfling corpse, I mean geeze! If I'm going to have the damn traders feed my like a caravan, at least let me pick up bodies like one
7) Some smart Gor'Tog NPCs around. While I appreciate that Gor'Togs are not in general as smart as most races, its is not exclusively true. Some variety would be nice.
8) more mounts! I want one! :P
9) hand signals or some covert communication: if we were slaves for so long, we most likely developed some secret stuff so we could plot while the s'kra were around


..... That's all I can think of right now but rest assured, now that people are actually reading and posting, I'll have more very soon.

mwahahahahahaha!

---

Caraamon Majerye,
Gor'Tog Barbarian Extrordi...Well somewhat average
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html

They were only enslaved for roughly six to seven hundred years and have been out of the last of the slavery for over one thousand. (using the general population since obviously slavery didn't just appear and dissapear on a race-wide scale) I think that may play a part in how it's downplayed.

I know generally Navak laughs at people that insinuate he is from slaves as an insult...since uh...yeah..that's quite a few generations ago.

Here are a few...not exactly racial weapons but weapons with stories behind them (one of which is a tog) that I think would be nice to have. This axe/sword/hammer/blah blah blah is the same type as used by X during Y when they did Z.

Or if it's an adapted weapon like a giant sickle, a description of when it was used in defense of the land/community...something positive or if they lost, their resolve to stand up to whatever.

I'll paste the taps/looks to these below...this is from a barb only dragon dance area if anyone is wondering and I think it would be good if at least some of our racial weapons had these kinds of stories behind them.

One of my favorite places as far as just look goes.

[Nardel Aesker, A Jagged Opening]
Cut from the thick volcano wall as if by the claw of a vengeful dragon, the jagged opening reveals only blackness and a vigilant silence. Figures of Barbarians are carved in a haphazard arch around the breach, their images torn from scenes of bloodlust and battlerage, their eyes filled with an unchecked fury.
Obvious paths: none.

Five pillars of obsidian rise from the mottled ground like proud warriors standing unscathed upon the killing fields, each supporting a treasured artifact of the Barbarian Guild. To the north, behind the curve of stone pillars, a tremendous arch stands waiting, its silvery surface seeming to ripple with every shudder of the torchlight.

On the obsidian pillars you see a gleaming iltesh, a steel-handled warhammer, a stained leather breastplate, a shadowy war bow and a two-fisted battle axe.

Infused with a deadly beauty, this iltesh was the blade of the Elven WeaponMaster Saronathien, reknowned creator of the free-flowing Elven style of fencing. Never once touched in single combat, he refused to kill any member of the seven races; instead attempting to teach the unity of being required to be a true master of the blade, and one's own self. When Teiro threatened to press him into war, he gave his blade to his wife and walked into the forests of Bosque Deriel, never to be seen again.

In staring at this massive warhammer, you can almost hear the deafening roars offered to Kuniyo by Warlord Zoratha, leading her Gor'Tog tribe from the north towards The Crossing to attack the invading Dragon Priests. The first ever female to take leadership of a Barbarian tribe, she challenged her husband to ritualistic combat upon hearing of his decision to not war in defense of Crossing, and bested him after a daylong battle. She led the southern march upon the next dawn, her husband by her side.

Lost to his tribe for ten years after embarking upon a vision quest to pass into manhood, Savage Weranac stumbled back from the desert at death's door, wearing only a stained leather breastplate upon his Human frame. Just before life fled from his eyes, he managed to gasp in a madness that had owned him for years upon years, "The Touch of the Dragon." Supposedly scalding to the touch, the armor has never been worn by another, despite claims by mages that there is absolutely nothing "magical" about it.

This sturdy and powerful bow of war seems to slip from your vision, its edges sliding into shadow. Carved delicately upon the riser is a red phoenix, the chosen mark of the Warrior Kalenthia, an Elothean whose aim was almost as legendary as the fire that burned in her jade eyes. Master of the Eagle Dance, her handcarved arrows always sung true, their keening pitch alerting enemies to her presence when it was too late to do anything other than realize their own doom.

and my personal favorite...

The mighty axe of the Dwarven Chieftan Gorathrumal stands as fiercely proud and powerful as its former wielder. Sent to Everild's embrace defending a small group of Dwarven settlers against a Dragon Priest raid, his berserk was bolstered by the Great Warrior himself, lasting until he was coated in the blood of the attackers, every last one of their bodies torn open at his feet. Upon beheading the last to face him, his rage suddenly departed and he fell dead, his hands still clenched around the axe.

I am --- Navak

383 Present Day
-829 Gor'Tog race freed from slavery in Qi'Reshalia
-1010 Togs on on Qi'Reshalia islands still enslaved
-1010 Gor'Togs released from slavery to S'Kra
-1700 First 'Tog taken to islands as slaves
-1800 S'Kra encounter first 'Tog

That is indeed over 1000 years ago and covers the vast majority of toggish slavery as far as I can tell.

After all, how would they have been fighting in the human/elven war alongside the dwarves if they were still slaves on the mainland?

I am --- Navak

Uh, then it would fit that there were still elven slaves until the fall of the empire or past it since they mountain elves were enslaved a long time ago and I'm sure the dwarves kept some for breeding purposes.

The exception rather than the rule doesn't carry much weight if you want to apply it to an entire race of people.

I am --- Navak

Regardless of how long ago it was, 1000 years of slavery has more than a minor impact on a people, even hundreds of years afterwards.

My character still hate's S'kra Mur for it, as he doesn't think they've changed at all. Also, look at WHY Gor'Togs were released. Not because the S'kra felt sorry, but because they ran out of food and kicked the Gor'Togs out to die.

Just my thoughts

---

Caraamon Majerye,
Gor'Tog Barbarian Extrordi...Well somewhat average
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html

No no... not stomp. Dwarves Stomp!

I've really liked this discussion by the way, its really awesome when races get fleshed out like this.

A few Weapon Ideas... Caravan/mining cart axles, a simple plough(would be an axe like weapon), a massive cauldron attached to a long rope/chain.


~Worrclan, Dwarf of the Realms-

Ohhh I like LUMBER!

Here's a couple more ideas

Gor'Tog food and drink, which interacts with our GOBBLE and GUZZLE

A huge haunch of meat
Large enough to feed (or house) a small halfling army, this massive chunk of meat gives no evidence as to what enormous creature it was once part of. In fact, its big enough to make a decent size meal for a Gor'Tog, but only if appetizers came first.
Gor'Togs:
>gobble haunch
Mmmmmmmmm, that was good, even if a little lacking in taste. In fact, you feel full for once.
Non-Gor'Togs:
>eat haunch
...... It weighs almost as much as you do, where would you start?

a massive ceramic mazer(sp?)
You're not exactly sure why someone would bother making a portable swimming pool for gnomes, but you're sure glad they did. It holds enough liquid to last you through a good meal, with only a refill or three.
Gor'Togs:
>guzzle mazer
Glub glub glub glub, ahhhhhhhh!
Non-Gor'Togs:
>drink/guzzle mazer
Not going to happen, even if you could tip this thing without drenching yourself, you aren't THAT thirsty. Not even after being in the desert two weeks without drink, on fire, after swalling a salt lick, not even then.


And in that vein, why not edible weapons? Things like a whole spit-roasted pig, two-handed melee blunt. It would come with horrible stats and decay after a bit, but wouldn't it be great?
>eat pig
Yum, blood really does make a good marinate!

Oh and as an idea for a Gor'Tog sling, one word for you: hammock!

---

Caraamon Majerye,
Gor'Tog Barbarian Extrordi...Well somewhat average
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html

I can't imagine a S'kra Mur slavemaster being very comfortable with the idea of watching over a group of Togs on the job. Picture four or five of us, all carrying large (and potentially lethal) farming implements. If Togball teaches us anything, its that there's only so much we're gonna take. Sure, he's got a crossbow. But he's gotta reload, right?

In the aftermath of some sort of violence there'd be repercussions for us. Tighter restrictions, more lashing, and a whole lot more guards watching every little thing we do.

So, the question: How did we communicate when times were tough?

I can picture a standing rule in some camps against Toggish being spoken. We've got no written language, save Gamgweth. How many slaves do you think could actually write?

Maybe there was some other way to send/receive messages? Markings that meant something? Some sort of non-verbal signal?

I don't think I'm suggesting some sort of sign language (others have such talents already), and I don't see much use (mechanically) for any sort of Common shorthand. But what about the markings idea? What if some of the items being considered had Tog-only markings on them? Maybe little bits of history and lore, only available to those who remember what the marking mean? What if these markings were in places, rather than on items? I personally think it'd be a great and unique way to get some of the culture out there.

- Ogoh

---

>appraise horse
Taking stock of its offensive abilities, and defending with no weapon, you estimate that the black horse is something that'd kill you quickly.

Lumber was the best thing I could come up with as well. Its something to discuss. :)


~GameMaster Aurdun Smashfoot

Another thought just popped up on the whole convert communication topic.

Maybe there should be some sort of religious-appearing or other racial-specific item (something like prayer beads or rosaries) that had pre-defined patterns on them. Something that seems insignificant and acceptable to the S'kra Mur that actually had some sort of hidden meaning?

I like the idea of a single type of item passed on for generations that the S'kra Mur just dismissed or never truly understood. We're smarter than people think.

And I'm done posting for the night.

- Ogoh

---

>appraise horse
Taking stock of its offensive abilities, and defending with no weapon, you estimate that the black horse is something that'd kill you quickly.

Togs are only ~8' tall, and they're trees. Rock Troll saplings however...

-Vorgahf

---

The last time Mr. T went to McDonald's, Ronald McDonald greeted him. What occured next proved to be the most violent beating of a clown ever recorded in human history.

Does not sapling = young tree? I think when most people think trees, even relatively young ones, they're going to be thinking of something >20' and quite heavily rooted into place. Even if that's possible as per the GMs for a Tog to forage up, that's not going to be a viable weapon for someone that could still stand upright in most modern houses. Fleshing out race = good, but a tree is a little overboard, especially given that Moradu are a type of giant and not even remotely comparable to a 'Tog.

-Vorgahf

---

The last time Mr. T went to McDonald's, Ronald McDonald greeted him. What occured next proved to be the most violent beating of a clown ever recorded in human history.

Its a minor thing of course, I just used young tree instead of sapling as I always thought of sapling as the first growth stage of the tree where it looks more like a vine... but yah young tree=sapling, mostly.

Life Stages of a tree
(Source Wikipedia)
1 Seed
2 Seedling: the above-ground part of the embryo that sprouts from the seed
3 Sapling: After the seedling reaches 1 m tall, and until it reaches 7 cm in stem diameter
4 Pole: young trees from 7?30 cm diameter
5 Mature tree: over 30 cm diameter, reproductive years begin
6 Old tree: dominate old growth forest; height growth slows greatly, with majority of productivity in seed production
7 Overmature: dieback and decay become common
8 Snag: standing dead wood
9 Log/debris: fallen dead wood
---


Dunnoe Rehlyn only met him a few times at family reunions.

~Worrclan, Dwarf of the Realms-

>being of American Indian descenst partly I have a issue with the lot of you foreigners taking the land I was caring for

Haha.. yes. Those of us of European descent reading these boards personally took the land that you were personally caring for. Always love that type of claim.

---

-Fuquois-

"A witty saying proves nothing."
- Voltaire

"Barbarians should not have a bonus to forging."
- DiminishedAngel